Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

A lot of the show's benefit is a Deconstruction of the impersonal arbitrator of the law. Ned Stark dictates from a place of neutrality but that doesn't make his law better. Daenerys kills the murderer of her child and who tricked her with her husband's recovery. It is an emotional act not a legalistic one and calls into question whether that is wrong—because the reason she killed Khal Drogo is because of the same emotional driving feelings.

"Like the Iron Fleet thing."

For those unaware, the writers say Dany, and presumably everyone else with her, just forgot about the Iron Fleet.

Who was Cersei's main ally at the time.

And who'd been mentioned in a meeting between Dany and her advisers earlier in the same episode.

Edited by merklyn on Aug 19th 2019 at 6:17:22 AM

It doesn't help that the Iron Fleet is also bullshit incarnate in the series and seems to basically teleport wherever it's needed and is able to somehow ambush a dragon high in the air.

Honestly, the burning of King's Landing only ever made sense to me on a weird meta level.

This was a character who was in a pretty good position at the end of the 6th season - only for the next season to basically take almost every advantage she gathered away through absolute nonsense because the writers apparently wrote themselves in a corner and apparently couldn't find a way to make Cersei look like a believable challenger to Daenerys' army.

So instead they resorted to the magic of bullshit - apart from the notion that the person who just nuked the Westerosi equivalent of the Vatican somehow still had the support of both the nobility and the nobles, you also had the aforementioned Iron Fleet just show up wherever. How many fleets did Daenerys lose for really stupid reason over the course of the last few seasons?

Not to mention that at her support network was deteriotating because her friends and advisors either got killed off or turned against her for (again) bullshit reasons - best example is Varys who for some reason wants to put Jon Snow on the throne for the exact same reason he thought Robert was a terrible king.

Heck, the fallout of Jon's parentage - not that it ended up mattering much - also reflected very badly on a bunch of other characters. "Bran is the evil mastermind" used to be a meme, but the last season can almost be seen as confirmation, i.e. "undermine Daenerys at any point and then yoink the crown away from her".

When the penultimate episode comes along, Daenerys has lost multiple fleets, a number of troops that changes depending on the plot writers' mood of the day, many of her closest confidants and the enemy she's fighting at this point somehow still has support and keeps clinging onto power in spite of any logic.

So is it any surprise she decided to go "Fuck it, let's burn this place to the ground?" Again, I'm purely talking from a meta standpoint here, as trying to take this story arc seriously requires more suspension of disbelief than I had left at this point.

Had the showrunners any self-awareness, I would have almost thought that scene was a commentary on how they handled the last few seasons.

Cersei committing an atrocity that took out the Tyrells and the religous leaders and NOT facing rebellious Reach bannermen and a revolution in the streets is another massive blunder. GRRM was consistent in applying consequences to actions. Benioff and Weiss were not.

I've been hearing rumours about D&D's offers for future projects being walked back - like them only directing one Star Wars movie rather than a whole trilogy for example.

There's more that Daenerys could have lost most of her armies fighting the White Walkers.

The Dothraki were totally annihilated on screen.

Why not follow that up?

In hindsight. The Dragons of Daenerys herself took that place. ASOIAF and GOT are deterministic series where Fate is.real and unavoidable and all Prophecies are Self Fulfilling.

Said this. Mirri.did nothing wrong, trying to prevent the birth of the next Genghis Khan is a good cause.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 19th 2019 at 10:18:13 AM

Really? Because that prophecy about Cersei being killed by her brother sure turned out to be shit, unless it was mistranslated and it should have read "big dumb pile of rocks".

And yes, killing a warlord's unborn child is totally justifiable.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Aug 19th 2019 at 4:20:43 PM

My point was that, given that the child was unborn at the time, one may be forgiven for doubting that Daenerys's fetus, when born, would have grown up to be "the next Ghengis Khan".

Edited by akanesarumara on Aug 19th 2019 at 5:20:19 PM

I think that killing an unborn child the mother clearly is invested in keeping is kind of evil no matter how you slice it.

But it's also understandable.

Both women acted entirely within what I consider to be believable emotional reactions, why its one of the most powerful moments of the show.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 19th 2019 at 8:22:44 AM

@Kaos: The show cut the Valonqar part of the Prophecy, which in hindsight was a obvious sign that Cersei wouldn't die at hands of a sibling.

We had the show have Little Baby Cersei visit the witch on-camera.

I perfectly agree.

So, any thoughts on THE BOYS?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 19th 2019 at 10:15:33 AM

Haven’t watched or read but I know it’s Garth Ennis

Which does lead to some presumptions on the content

But the Valonqar part of the Prophecy was Adapted Out.

It's comfortably what I term to be "half-Ennis." Which is to say that full-Ennis is so full of misogyny, violence, grim protagonist centered morality, and hatred of superheroes I find him unreadable. Here, they've dialed back on all of them tremendously—which STILL leaves the show to be an incredibly dark and brutal world with lots of misogyny.

The difference in the latter, though, is that Ennis created the female characters in the comic to be jokes (he admitted as such) and they're main characters in the show. It's kind of interesting that the material can be made useful for a discussion of a lot of the issues that Ennis just drives by. It's still problematic in places but also does some gender-flipping, changes some characters, and also includes the Me Too! movement.

Warning - Massive Spoilers

Point 1#

The storyline is based around two primary characters in the show, Hughie and Starlight. Hughie's girlfriend is killed by the Flash Expy A-train in a accident that his corporate sponsors quickly cover up, driving Hughie to want revenge that Billy Butcher (Karl Urban) takes advantage of. Very typical superhero origin.

Later we find out that Butcher's wife was raped and murdered or committed suicide because of such by the Homelander—except, no it actually didn't happen at all. This is a reversal from the comics where it did happen. Butcher actually created the scenario in his head because he couldn't believe his wife would leave him. Indeed, she seems to have had an consensual affair w/ The Homelander and kept the resulting child.

Point 2#

The secondary protagonist, though is Starlight who is a Supergirl Expy that joins the Seven because she wants to be a genuine superhero and is The Paragon. She's immediately blackmailed into sex by the Deep (Aquaman Expy and traumatized by the experience as every attempt to do good drives her further and further into depression. She looks up the Wonder Woman Expy Maeve who is a closested queer woman who also wanted to be a hero but has been bullied into accepting a fake relationship for PR as well as ignoring the increasingly psychotic behavior of her teammates. Basically, a cautionary tale of what Starlight could become.

Point 3#

It should be noted Starlight eventually stands up to her rapist and even outs him to the world but this results in him being forced to give a Kobe Bryant-esque nonapology and being reassigned to Sandusky, Ohio rather than actually being punished. Starlight is almost fired for it but points out it would be bad optics.

Point 4#

The leader of Voight American, a man in the comics, who protects the superheroes from all of the horrible sexual assaults, scandals, and hypocrisy they indulge in is played by Elizabeth Shue in the show. She is a mother herself but cares nothing about the activities other than how they form a pain in the ass for her as a corporate brand manager. Homelander, the Superman Expy obsesses over her but she finds it amusing rather than threatening...right up until he kills her

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 19th 2019 at 10:58:55 AM

Daenerys kills the murderer of her child and who tricked her with her husband's recovery. It is an emotional act not a legalistic one and calls into question whether that is wrong—because the reason she killed Khal Drogo is because of the same emotional driving feelings.

In the books she didn't even try to kill him directly initially. Drogo refused to follow her instructions for caring for the wound and basically did the opposite or the worst things possible.

the Wonder Woman expy is a closeted queer woman? Gee, wonder what that's referring too?

I've read somewhere that Wonder Woman is another character other than Superman that Ennis has some respect for. Even in the comics, Queen Maeve was the most sympathetic of the Seven.

Edited by windleopard on Aug 19th 2019 at 12:33:53 PM

Here's a good article by the Mary Sue on Starlight

https://www.themarysue.com/starlight-empowered-amazons-the-boys/

It's still up for grabs: Mirri did give him a cure but there are some who think she sabotaged that cure. Also, her making a delirious Drogo into a vegetable instead of properly healing him was very much intentional.

I've been thinking about the portrayals of democracy in fiction, as I am wont to do. One of the most interesting examples (though it only appeared like once in the series) was in Doctor Who. Namely, The Daleks.

For an Omnicidal Maniac race, the Daleks have a surprisingly nuanced political history. They've had a standard Evil Empire, they've tried going with a religious cult, and they've even gone with a parliamentary democracy.

Dalek elections must be a riot.

Reminds me of last year when London protesters paraded a Donald Trump Dalek.

Edited by M84 on Aug 20th 2019 at 2:00:13 AM

I just had a interesting thoughts on Funny Valentine, the ultra nationalist Big Bad of Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Steel Ball Run. Spoilers ahead.

Basically, it was a rant against the massive Draco in Leather Pants he get, being called a Anti-Villain usually with a lots of "Valentine was actually the good guy".

I am reading SBR right now and talking with a friend that did it...Wow, that's quite hilarious given how Over-the-Top Evul is Valentine and how outright apocalyptic is his plan.

However, I got someone saying that only Americans whitewash Valentine...and that's honestly not the case, the first Valentine fanboy I knew was Latinoamerican.

Dalek Elections please, those seem like a really interesting thing.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 19th 2019 at 1:19:15 PM

Ok now I want to see Dalek elections. :D