Needs Help: Video Game.Harvest Moon

What should the Harvest Moon page be named?

1. The series was originally translated by Natsume as Harvest Moon. However, a few years ago the series received a new translator— xSeed. The games are now called Story of Seasons in English.

2. Natsume does still make new "Harvest Moon" games, but they're unrelated to the "Harvest Moon" fans know of (which, as said, is now "Story of Seasons").

Should the page be renamed then? Most games are titled Harvest Moon, however going from now on the series is Story of Seasons. We have a VideoGame.Story Of Seasons right now, but that could be easily changed to Story of Seasons 1 like how VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1 is.

edited 23rd Mar '18 6:37:06 PM by Pichu-kun

I think it'd make sense to split the Harvest Moon page into separate ones for Story Of Seasons (Marvelous), and Harvest Moon (Natsume). The new Harvest Moon page just needs to be clear that anyone looking for the Harvest Moon games made prior to 2014 should read the Story of Seasons page.

Wouldn't it make more sense to disambiguate the first XSEED release by year? VideoGame.Story Of Seasons 1 is misleading because it's not the first game in the series, just the first to use the new English name. As for the two series, I'm going to suggest VideoGame.Story Of Seasons for the Marvelous series (since the site policy is to use the most recent English translation for foreign-language works), VideoGame.Harvest Moon Natsume for the Natsume series, and VideoGame.Harvest Moon as a disambiguation page that links to both series.

edited 6th Apr '18 12:27:02 AM by GastonRabbit

That's more or less what should be done. VideoGame.Harvest Moon is an ambiguous title, despite only one of the two series continuing to use that name.

• For the series that started on the SNES:
  • "Most recent official English name" for the series is clearly VideoGame.Story Of Seasons, so that title should be used for the series page.
  • The games themselves should use whatever English names they were released under, with the first entry in the series ^note currently located at VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1, but that's now partially ambiguous with the 2007 or 2014 game being disambiguated as VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1996 and the first post-rename entry ^note currently located at VideoGame.Story Of Seasons, which is being usurped by the series page being disambiguated as VideoGame.Story Of Seasons 2014.
• For the modern-day series:
  • The series should probably be at VideoGame.Harvest Moon 2007 or VideoGame.Harvest Moon 2014, because the oft-proposed disambiguation by company isn't enough. Natsume was involved with both series.
  • No game in this series is known solely as Harvest Moon, so no other title conflicts exist, save for the fact Harvest Moon 1 could theoretically mean the first game in either series.

Edited by bwburke94 on Jul 1st 2018 at 12:33:07 PM

You mean Wii U. The DS games are Marvelous titles.

& The first installment of Natsume's post-Story of Seasons series (The Lost Valley) was actually released on the 3DS in 2014.

I don't know what 2007 game you're referring to. All of the DS games are part of the series now known as Story of Seasons. Marvelous didn't own XSEED in 2007, so the Story of Seasons name didn't exist yet and Natsume still had the publishing rights to that series, and Natsume didn't stop publishing the games immediately after Marvelous bought XSEED.

edited 10th May '18 3:50:17 AM by GastonRabbit

how about make the Japanese name be the "franchise name" index, then refer to the english published names there as the games while noting the different harvest moon games?

What do you mean? We're discussing how a Japanese series changed its name in English and another series started using the old English name. This situation doesn't exist in Japan; the series that changed its name from Harvest Moon to Story of Seasons in English has always been called Ranch Story in Japan (XSEED even used the Japanese name when advertising that the first to be called Story of Seasons is part of an established series, since they couldn't use Natsume's trademark), while the name Ranch Story doesn't apply to the games Natsume started releasing as Harvest Moon in 2014.

edited 15th May '18 8:33:35 PM by GastonRabbit

Oh, I thought the issue was grouping. How about a disambiguation page then?

That could work but I wouldn't want to give the trademark campers more credit than they deserve.

Franchise page could have the Bokujou Monogatari title while the other could have 'Harvest Moon - alt' or something.

edited 16th May '18 1:27:59 AM by Memers

I think the following would work:

• VideoGame.Harvest Moon as a disambiguation page for both series and possibly also the SNES game
  • VideoGame.Story Of Seasons for the older series (currently located at VideoGame.Harvest Moon) due to the site's preference for the most recent official English name
    • VideoGame.Story Of Seasons 2014 for the first XSEED-published game in the older series (currently located at VideoGame.Story Of Seasons)
    • VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1996 for the first installment for what is now Story of Seasons (this game is just called Harvest Moon in English and currently located at VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1)
  • VideoGame.Harvest Moon 2014 or VideoGame.Harvest Moon 2007 for Natsume's newer series, with the year depending on whether Puzzle de Harvest Moon (released in 2007) counts as part of that series (this series is currently grouped with Story of Seasons on VideoGame.Harvest Moon)

Edit: Updated to reflect this

edited 16th May '18 11:25:56 PM by GastonRabbit

I still insist that Puzzle de Harvest Moon (the 2007 game in question) is part of what you call the 2014 series. (EDIT 7/2/18: I have retracted this to settle the dispute.)

The other wiki agrees with me on this regard, titling the article on the latter series Harvest Moon (2007 video game series) after a recent move discussion. There were no objections on TOW to the current Harvest Moon series beginning in 2007.

Edited by bwburke94 on Jul 1st 2018 at 12:35:04 PM

I grouped Puzzle de Harvest Moon with Story of Seasons because it contains characters from that series, so it's not completely separate from the games Marvelous made. The title screen even says characters were licensed from Marvelous, which isn't the case for the games Natsume released as of 2014. However, if it's generally considered to be part of the same series as The Lost Valley and Natsume's games from after that, rather than having anything to do with Marvelous, then perhaps we should do the same.

Edit: I updated my list to take what you said about Natsume's puzzle games into account. I don't object to referring to the series as starting in 2007 instead of 2014, but I think this thread needs its own consensus and not just Wikipedia's.

edited 17th May '18 5:28:33 AM by GastonRabbit

Puzzle is pre-split title so it should be with the other Marvelous titles. If features BTN characters and was made prior to the split.

I supported this move last year and I still support it now. The names I suggested in the ATT thread (I have no idea how to link those, but you can just search for StoryOfSeasons) were VideoGame.Story Of Seasons, VideoGame.Story Of Seasons 2014, and VideoGame.Harvest Moon Natsume. The latter is technically misleading, but it avoids the argument over which series contains Puzzle. (Marvelous had nothing to do with it, but it uses characters from one of their games.)

The only reason I didn't make the move last year is that I lacked the time to do so.

Posting to show support for Post 11 organization.

11 seems nice. Should the tropes be left on the main Harvest Moon page, though? I'll glance through them and move ones that should be on the individual work pages.

I only meant that VideoGame.Harvest Moon would be a disambiguation page and nothing else. People wanting tropes for the two series would go to their own pages.

I am retracting my statement on Puzzle, as it's a lot simpler to just call it "not part of the 2014 series" to avoid this mess.

Is this right?

• VideoGame.Harvest Moon becomes a disambiguate page.
• VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1 becomes VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1996.
• VideoGame.Story Of Seasons becomes the current page, with the exception of the Natsume-only stuff. Move the current general examples there.
• The current VideoGame.Story Of Seasons becomes VideoGame.Story Of Seasons 2014.
• VideoGame.Harvest Moon Natsume is where Light of Hope, Puzzle de Harvest Moon, etc get put on, with link to their individual pages.

Yes?

Edit: Fixed the typo.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Jul 27th 2018 at 3:31:44 AM

My post suggested VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1996 for the first game (the one currently located at VideoGame.Harvest Moon 1) in the Marvelous series and VideoGame.Harvest Moon 2014 for the Natsume-only series, but I did check and the former came out in North America in 1997 and Europe in 1998.

I don't see a problem with using the Japanese release year for disambiguation of the former (as your post did with the first game to use the Story of Seasons name) as long as we stick to English terminology for everything else; nowadays, anniversaries of Japanese series are based on Japanese release dates of the first installment (at least if they were released there first) even outside Japan (such as when The Legend of Zelda, Pokémon, and World of Mana had anniversaries in 2016).

Edit: I added a line break to this post. As I pointed out below, I was tired when I originally wrote this, so it ended up being a bit rambly.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 6th 2018 at 8:02:38 AM

There is absolutely no reason to use 1997 as the year. The game's first release was in 1996, not 1997.

That's what I said (or was trying to say; I was tired at the time). I said there's no problem with using the Japanese release year as long as the page itself uses English terminology, and I gave other instances of Japanese release dates being given as the primary release dates in English-speaking countries (in those cases, with series milestone anniversaries in 2016, with the Story of Seasons series itself turning 20 that year).

I also pointed out that the post I was responding to used the Japanese release year for the first installment to use the Story of Seasons name (2014 is when it came out in Japan; it came out in North America in 2015), which is the year I used when I proposed how the pages would be sorted.

Edit: I added a line break to my previous post to (hopefully) clarify it and make it less of a rambly wall of text.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 7th 2018 at 3:01:48 AM

Okay, I'll save this from becoming dead. It seems we've (pretty much) agreed on what to use.

VideoGame.Harvest Moon -> VideoGame.Story Of Seasons (with the exception of the stuff from the new series)

VideoGame.Story Of Seasons -> VideoGame.Story Of Seasons 2014

New series split off into VideoGame.Harvest Moon Natsume (neatly avoiding the 2007 vs. 2014 debate)

VideoGame.Harvest Moon becomes a disambiguation page

I'll go ahead with the VideoGame.Story Of Seasons 2014 move now.

As for the "1 vs. year" disambiguation debate, I'll send it to ATT sooner or later, so hold off on that for now.

Given that Natsune worked on both, I object to using that for disambiguation. Note that the troper who objected to the year has withdrawn their objection.