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Does "objectively good" and "objectively bad" media exist?

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Oct 20th 2017 at 8:41:51 AM

By "objectively good" or "objectively bad", it would be media that where if you say that it's good, or that it's bad, you are factually incorrect.

I have got into a lot of online debates about this, including with someone who stated that me preferring the Pokemon anime to Steven Universe, was "wrong", as the latter show is "factually" better than the former, and someone else did the same when I stated I preferred the music of Rush to To Pimp A Butterfly. But is that just elitism, or is there actually stuff out there where you are wrong for saying it's good, or wrong for saying it's bad?

Personally, I think it's nonsense, and that it's all based on opinion. However, I would like to hear what others say about this.

edited 20th Oct '17 8:44:39 AM by WhatArtThee

Just another day in the life of Jimmy Nutrin
RAlexa21th Cuteness lover from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Cuteness lover
Oct 20th 2017 at 10:21:36 AM

There's no objectivity, only consensus.

A lesson without pain is meaningless.
Irene Night Terrier from Friend Code: 1203-9265-8784 and 4571-1389-1915 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Millership from Kazakhstan
Oct 20th 2017 at 12:12:04 PM

The words "good" and "bad" are too shallow to be bestowed upon most works in any media, since the works themselves are too complex for that. Sure, there are some elements within the works that can be rated good or bad, like pacing, or the competence with an instrument (if we're talking about music), but a work is rarely a sum (or even a multiplication) of its components. Even works that consist of the worst parts have some entertainment value. Some authors even deliberately lower the quality of some elements within their works, to great effect. I think that when rating a work of a medium you shouldn't ask "is it good?" but "does it work?" The implied answer to the former is objective. To the latter it's "it works/doesn't work for me".

edited 20th Oct '17 12:13:42 PM by Millership

Spiral out, keep going.
Oct 21st 2017 at 5:14:17 AM

Yes and no. It really depends on the purpose of the media.

For example, you can make the argument there are certain things that can make a painting objectively ugly. Lack of symmetry, poor color choice, etc. However, the purpose of the painting may not have been to look pretty but to create a sense of discomfort. In such a case, said deficiencies can add to it.

In the classic case of The Room, everything about the acting, the pacing, and the writing is objectively terrible. But this is assuming you follow the original intent of the film that is to create a compelling drama with complex characters and an emotional story. But as a cheesy black comedy it does hold value.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
Oct 21st 2017 at 5:51:11 AM

No

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
n3rd_d4sh plant from Parts Unknown Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
plant
Oct 21st 2017 at 5:55:46 AM

Really, no such thing as bad or good. Just what you like or don't like. What you agree with and what you don't agree with.

" I'm the princess! Everyone has to do what I say!"
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
Oct 21st 2017 at 6:34:30 AM

Supermarket tabloids like the Weekly World News, which contains stories about paranormal "events." They're hoaxes and completely made-up bullshit. I would call that objectively bad media.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Oct 21st 2017 at 4:46:02 PM

There's no such thing as strict objectivity in art, however I don't think that everything is completely nebulous either.

There is a certain craftsmanship to art that you can see the more media you consume. The artist who's been refining his craft for several years striving to improve will produce entirely different work from the rank amateur.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
Oct 22nd 2017 at 12:27:47 AM

No, but there are sure-fire tiers in technical skill. Unless you seriously believe The Da Vinci Code is as well-written as Of Mice And Men...

Oct 22nd 2017 at 7:02:17 AM

There is a certain craftsmanship to art that you can see the more media you consume.

Slightly confused I am, otherwise think I got what you said.

About that bit, you mean any kind of media overall (including news sites) or specifically some type of media (like related to art)?

Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Oct 22nd 2017 at 8:27:42 AM

I was talking entirely about art.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
Oct 22nd 2017 at 9:52:45 AM

Practicing makes a master as it's said.

PhysicalStamina so i made a new avatar from Not DC, transplants. Relationship Status: It's so nice to be turned on again
so i made a new avatar
Oct 23rd 2017 at 3:08:16 PM

If enough people think something is good or bad it might as well be objective.

edited 29th Oct '17 4:22:11 AM by PhysicalStamina

It's only political when you don't agree with the 'politics' presented.
Oct 24th 2017 at 6:45:26 AM

I don't think so. If you don't like The Beatles, but like Nickelback, you're not wrong.

Just another day in the life of Jimmy Nutrin
WilliamRadarStorm Tropers, Pebbles. "Pebs" for short. from The catnip dealership. Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Tropers, Pebbles. "Pebs" for short.
Oct 25th 2017 at 10:18:52 AM

I think he's referring to certain fandoms' tendencies to cry "He Panned It, Now He Sucks!" when they stumble on someone who doesn't like the work the fandom follows.

Lord knows I've gotten weird looks for saying I don't like bacon or American football in public.

If you ever hear me say "Pebbles says hi," she's why.
J79
Oct 25th 2017 at 1:18:54 PM

[up]X9 Isnt the Weekly World News supposed to be a parody? The cover stories are too absurd for ANYONE to take seriously.

Oct 29th 2017 at 12:20:22 AM

I would make the argument yes, but only if we're using good and bad in terms of the morality promoted by the work. For example, The Birth of a Nation, though a historically important piece of cinema, portrays the KKK as the good guys and black people as savages. Not exactly the best message for a film.

However, I think it's very easy to prove there are no objective standards for quality with one simple fact: critics have jobs. If it were clear what's good and what isn't, no one would feel the need to review anything because the quality would be obvious.

PhysicalStamina so i made a new avatar from Not DC, transplants. Relationship Status: It's so nice to be turned on again
so i made a new avatar
Oct 29th 2017 at 4:27:15 AM

[up][up][up]I'm more referring to how if enough people think that Thing is good or bad, then the notion that Thing is good or bad becomes "correct", and anyone who disagrees is "incorrect". It's why you have people pissing on anybody that likes Sword Art Online ir Attack on Titan, for example.

It's only political when you don't agree with the 'politics' presented.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
Formerly G.G.
Oct 29th 2017 at 5:31:18 AM

[up] Isn't there at term for that?

"Beneath his seemingly nice exterior, lies a bad egg."
PhilosopherStones Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm from The North (lots of planets have them) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm
Oct 29th 2017 at 8:30:24 AM

Objectively no since everyone has different sensibilities.

GIVE ME YOUR FACE
PhysicalStamina so i made a new avatar from Not DC, transplants. Relationship Status: It's so nice to be turned on again
so i made a new avatar
Oct 29th 2017 at 9:25:13 AM

[up][up]I dunno, is there?

It's only political when you don't agree with the 'politics' presented.
WilliamRadarStorm Tropers, Pebbles. "Pebs" for short. from The catnip dealership. Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Tropers, Pebbles. "Pebs" for short.
Oct 29th 2017 at 11:01:10 AM

[up]If it were me, I'd recycle the term "echo chamber" for that.

If you ever hear me say "Pebbles says hi," she's why.
Bep The Burgundy Queen from The Magic Planet Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Burgundy Queen
Oct 29th 2017 at 4:44:44 PM

not really. To reiterate what the first reply said, there's consensus (something generally agreed by a large number of people to be true) for media but not objective quality. "Talking objectively" about media would just be listing actual facts about it (who was involved in its creation, that kind of thing).

It probably seems like hair-splitting but it's actually pretty important a distinction to make IMO. Buying into the idea of objectivity in art leads to trying to neatly sort media into "good" and "bad" categories, which is a dangerous thing to do for a lot of reasons.

call me "Jane" || Zinnzunge

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