Disenchantment, Netflix's new animated show from Matt Groening

Futurama but in medieval fantasy.

I was 100% expecting the pirate Elf to turn out to be Returno. "No one ever returns from the other side. Not even Returno!" And then he'd make his triumphant return to the Elf Village by the end of his character arc.

Also, I hope the show addresses how, exactly, Elfo's dad met his non-elf mom (presumably the Ogre Queen) without ever leaving and returning to the village. The lore surrounding leaving and returning to the Elf Village is very contradictory.

As for Luci, I have thoughts. He gets demon points for acts of betrayal and treachery. I feel like betraying Asmodius, King of Hell, should get him HUGE demon points. It takes some serious demon nerve to stab the Devil himself in the back.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 24th 2019 at 10:41:55 AM

Its kind of funny that some people were expecting this to be fantasy Futurama, since a lot of people initially expected Futurama to be The Simpsons in space.

The second part/season/whatever was a little better than the first, but still plenty of room for improvement.

re:The second part of your post

Just rewatched the first episode. The elf king specifically said that no Elf has left Elfwood in centuries (with the exceptions of Leavo and Returno, of course), not that no elf has ever left (with the same exceptions). Maybe elves are just Long-Lived and Elfo was born centuries before the start of the series, around the time when the elves stopped leaving Elfwood?

Edited by TrashJack on Sep 24th 2019 at 10:28:46 AM

Maybe they should get someone besides Tress MacNeille to play the mother figures, it's starting to get distracting.

Edited by Mullon on Sep 24th 2019 at 10:39:53 AM

Now I'm wondering when Oona is going to return from that pirate ship.

Finished the season. Overall, definitely an improvement from the first season but still carries similar flaws. Some episodes feel really sluggish, if they aren't going on an adventure Dreamland itself is just not that interesting of a place. The Myth Arc is definitely a strong point, and the Character Development has a nicely sharp curve. Everyone feels a lot more complex and self-aware, whereas the first season was a lot of flat stereotypes.

The first three episodes are genuinely really good, and the last two bring it all back around. What helps the episodes in the middle is some good character work and atmosphere, like Bean following the Maru symbols Dagmar left behind in the Dreamland catacombs or Zog trying to face his shortcomings as a king and father.

While I liked Season 2 more than Season 1, it did have a lot of similar flaws. Also I noticed that this season was structured a lot like the previous one; the first few episodes established the premise of the storyline, the next several episodes in the middle were (mostly) filler, and then the last few episodes were full of twists and turns that lead up to an inconclusive cliffhanger teasing the next season.

I hope this doesn't become a pattern. Especially not the filler episodes, because they're generally uninteresting. Another reviewer of this show stated that it works much better as a comical fantasy adventure than just some sitcom in a fantasy setting, and I agree. I prefer that they just get on with the serialized Myth Arc rather than just showing a series of unrelated random hijinks in Dreamland.

Josh Weinstein was on a podcast where he talked about that. He mentioned that a lot of people wanted greater focus on the continuing story. They apparently modified a few of the episodes this year to address that. Here's the link, but its kind of long: https://overcast.fm/+MXnzsPK3c

So, there's a good chance that next year there will be less episodic stuff.

Honestly, I'm cool either way. Even the episodic bits often work to build characterization and lore. You could cut Zog's relationship with the selkie Ursula and not lose any plot stuff, but you'd lose out on some fine character development for his character.

The sick elves episode doesn't add anything to the main plot. But it gives us some nice worldbuilding on the ogres and a strong hint to the identity of Elfo's mom.

The troll episode doesn't really do anything beyond establishing the existence of trolls. But it's a fun adventure for the characters and gives all three members of the main cast some nice character bits and stuff to do.

Really, the only episode that I feel wouldn't be a loss to drop this season would be the one with Slimy the octopus. That didn't really go anywhere and wasn't really too interesting either, nor did it feature much in the way or worldbuilding, character development, or lore. The opening bit fleshing out Derek and Bean's relationship was some good character work and I'd want to salvage that in maybe a different episode, but once Slimy showed up, it was all downhill from there.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 25th 2019 at 10:42:54 AM

Yeah, "Love's Slimy Embrace" has a little bit of development for Derek but it kind of bails on that halfway to be more about Bean showing concern for her half-brother. But "In Her Own Write" in the first season would have been a standard pro-feminist story, while here it becomes a rather poignant story about Bean and Zog trying to deal with their feelings about Dagmar.

"Matt Groening and co. do medieval fantasy" sounds like a can't-miss premise, but I find myself watching Disenchantment out of a sense of obligation more than anything. The jokes are only rarely funny and the overarching story just... isn't interesting. I just don't care about Dagmar or anything relating to her.

I don't hate the show, but it really lacks the anarchic joy of Futurama. It also has a lot of moments and character beats that feel like they could be really poignant, but aren't.

Take Elfo. In the first episode, he says "I wish I could go to a place where everyone is miserable." Except he doesn't. What he wants is to go to a place where he can express misery. The elves "drink all night uncontrollably" because they have a social expectation to be happy and/or perform happiness all the time. They drown their sorrows because expressing or confronting them is not an option. That sounds like a great story! But as soon as Elfo leaves Elfwood, it just fucking disappears.

I also think there's something going on with Luci. Something about choosing to do good in a world that encourages and rewards evil. There are glimpses of it here and there, but often the show just plays him like a new Bender, and that feels like a huge waste of potential.

I don't have much to say about Bean because she's very "This is what a dude thinks a tomboyish woman is like." But at some point, somebody should've vetoed that puke brown and cyan color scheme.

I like Bean's puke brown and cyan color scheme. She's a crass, grody, undesirable woman. The Homer Simpson of Princesses. That's not a bug, it's a feature.

That said, I do agree that they need to get some women in the writers' room.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 26th 2019 at 8:41:29 AM

I agree that Bean's current appearance is fine. Although, I disagree about her being undesirable. At least her appearance. Maybe her personality. The only character design I have a problem with is Elfo, since he looks like a green, pointy-eared version of Bart Simpson (even has the same red shirt and blue shorts).

I think Bean's character is okay, but it probably would help to have more of a female perspective on the character. One thing I notice is that Bean is probably the least dumb of Groening's protagonists. Not sure if this is a case of women are wiser, or due to her needing to be relatively smarter for plot necessity. I'm kind of wondering how far they're planning to develop these characters though. If the shows goes on for a few more seasons, are they going to be noticeably different from how they are now?

The writer's for this show seem to be ambitious, but its not clear if they can pull it off. I know Groening and company have never tried to do something this continuity heavy before, with an actual story arc, so I'm willing to cut them some slack. My opinion on the show isn't as harsh as some people's (its usually decent), but hopefully it will get better.

I think the reason Bean's smarter than the typical Groening protagonist is because it's needed for her role. Disenchantment is, as per its name, a jaded and disillusioned take on the typical medieval fantasy. Bean serves as a subversive commentary on women's social status in the Dark Ages. She's a princess, which basically means she exists to be married off to some duke or count somewhere while her little brother is the kingdom's true heir.

She's basically a cynical rendition of Princess Jasmine or Merida. She's Groening's take on "Being a princess actually kinda sucks." First-born of the royal family, but because of her gender, she's still the spare child who doesn't matter.

Groening's typical "Dim-witted moron just goes along with everything" protagonist wouldn't really work for that commentary. Other Groening protagonists have the privilege of a universe that revolves around them and goes out of their way to accomodate them, so they can get away with being idiots. But Disenchantment is about Bean against the world and needs a protagonist who can rise to that challenge.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 26th 2019 at 11:01:23 AM

Two of the writers for this series, Josh Weinstein and Shion Takeuchi, were writers for Gravity Falls season 2, meaning they have experience with story driven shows. It should be more of a push for the series.

Gravity Falls isn't story-driven. It has a lot of story-driven episodes intermingling with a lot of episodic done-in-one stories. It had a strong Myth Arc, but it also had a lot of oneshot episodes that were just wacky adventures for its characters.

In that regard, I'd say that the Gravity Falls method is precisely what they're doing with Disenchantment. We haven't had any pointless vignettes episodes yet though, so that's pretty cool.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 26th 2019 at 12:59:19 PM

I would say Bean is a lot more complicated than Bart, Homer or Fry, who are all relatively moldable to whatever adventure or lesson the shows wanted to do. Her self-destructive behavior is treated as a genuine character flaw, and she has a complex relationship with both parents. Obviously the first few episodes cast her as a typical hip Rebellious Princess but once it became clear it wasn't ALL going to be avoiding marriage or teenage shenanigans it helped pull the entire series in a better direction.

Something I noticed too this season is that the Power Trio was heavily downplayed. Luci particularly seemed adverse to getting directly involved in their schemes ( which makes sense because he would be more cautious after losing his immortality) and even Elfo became a lot more cynical towards both of them. They're still the three main characters but they are not all in the same scene together for every episode.

It’s just as well. Something I started to notice is that Elfo and Luci don’t really have a dynamic and mostly just interact through Bean- and even them it’s typically just “Luci and Bean have a conversation while Elfo makes comments” or “Elfo and Bean have a conversation while Luci makes comments.” Cutting out the third character changes surprisingly little.

Even the single episode B-plot that puts them together is more about them reacting to the things the others did moreso than holding a substantial conversation.

I just realized that Elfo is named as such because he is not an elf doing elf things.

Elfo and Luci are sort of the devil and angel on Beans' shoulders. Maybe not literally as both are enablers, but while they have contrasting personalities there isn't really much to their relationship besides being contrasting personalities. Luci got a brief (if excellent) bit of development at the beginning of the season, but for Elfo both his resurrection and bringing the Elves to Dreamland gave him a more interesting position in the story. I guess for Luci, being a demon means that it's hard to get a grasp on his character because hell is generally outside the context of the setting, the episode IN hell was really good but you can only go there a few times before it becomes mundane. With his mission of corrupting Bean no longer in force, he's really just become even more of a Bender clone.

I actually like Luci more than Bender. Both for his smooth devil voice and his preference for getting other people to do bad things rather than doing them himself. He's also, despite his wickedness, much more of a team player and even has an unexpected capacity for selflessness strictly in the context of helping Bean.

He is very much Bean's shoulder devil, for all it entails. Bender would do anything to anyone to uplift Bender, while Luci would do anything to anyone to uplift Bean. He's a friend you can always rely on but probably shouldn't listen to.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 27th 2019 at 7:34:26 AM

I definitely want to check out the show after reading that. I hate Bender.

Would you guys say there is a chance for it to really pull its boots up for the next seasons onward, like how Korra's stronger back half kinda made up for the disaapoiting front half?

I don't really know, hopefully the next part/season/whatever of the series is another improvement in quality.