Reinvention Ideas For DC/Marvel Characters

I'd give Dawnstar for Legion of Superheroes photokinetic powers like in JLA: Lost in Time. It suits her name anyway.

She should certainly be given something else, as her traditional ability set is just her wings (and who cares about that in a group that hands out flight rings) and the ability to track anyone, anywhere, regardless of distance.

Mostly everyone has done their Superman reimagining, I'm guessing. And mine would be pretty simple, I'd make the Kents into Mexican immigrants, send Luthor back to being a business mogul and president, and make Clark himself an outspoken socialist.

Too political you say? well, I believe art is inherently political, so I'm just making it explicit.

Also, no Batman.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV

Sounds like the Superman from Justice League Gods & Monsters with hints of Red Son.

Though you said no Batman, which mean no vampire friend of Superman or a terroirist bomber arch nemesis.

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Superman was pretty political in his earliest appearances, what with taking on lobbyists and corrupt politicians and whatnot.

I don't think I'd make the Kent's Mexican immigrants (though that's not a bad idea). I'd just make them visibly struggling Kansas farmers. People seem to think those don't exist anymore, but they do. They're even more invisible than most immigrants.

edited 10th Jan '17 4:47:49 PM by Robbery

I know they exist, but I want him to be the son of immigrants specifically to amplify the pro-immigration statement inherent to Superman's nature.

As a matter of fact, it may be good to diversify the cast in the Daily Planet too.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV

My ideas for the revised Marvel Universe (hope you like Wall of Texts):

• Phase One of this project will focus on the beginnings of the "Marvel Age" with stories centering on the three main Marvel team. In chronological order of appearance, the teams and their themes are: Fantastic Four (dealing with the beginning of the age), X Men (dealing with acceptance of the age), and Avengers (dealing with the normalization of the age). Spider Man will make appearance in the three teams story, of which he himself begins to develop into the masked super hero we all know and love (in short, its pretty much Amazing Fantasy #15 extended across multiple stories.
• The first story arc focus on the Fantastic Four, whose goals lies more in figuring out how to reverse their condition rather than be a team of adventurers; it just so happens that a lot of their attempts leads to a crazy adventure which herald them as heroes. Their origin is a combination of the original and Ultimate, of which Reed figured out a way to create transdimensional travel by utilizing a pocket dimension known as the Negative Zone to serve as bridge from one portal to another. Of course the experiment end up a failure with the ships shield disabled and the team mutated; but the underlying question the group face is what could of damage the ship's shield system, the violent storms of the Negative Zone or something else? The villains at this point will all have some sort of ties to the team's search for the cure. Mole Man was once a scientist who theorized and pin pointed the existence of the N. Zone, but was dismissed by his colleagues for being outrageous. Diablo is initially portrayed as a modern day alchemist from Europe whose notes on transmutation is oddly similar to Reed's notes on the Negative Zone effect on the human body. Doctor Doom retains all of his characteristics of being a king, scientist and wizard like the classic Doom, and his interest in the Negative Zone goes all the way back in college when he invented a portal to the place (same experimental portal is what inspired Reed with his transdimensional experiment). Doom wanted to travel to the Negative Zone to acquire an artifact that he theorized controls the molecular structures of both positive and negative matter (Cosmic Control Rod), but after testing to see what happens when humans enter the zone unprotected (i.e. sabatoging Reed's experiment) he decided to figure out another way to get the rod without exposing himself to the zone. Red Ghost (Russian physicist) and Mad Thinker (a master in probability) are scientist who helped Doom in studying and building a stable portal to the Negative Zone; the former is changed to an anti villain who only helps so that Doom can free his family and the latter is now female. At this point I have no clue what to do with Namor, but he will be among the initial villains in this take on the Fantastic Four. And finally, Annihilus is the final boss the team will face who is portrayed as he usually is: a mad tyrant bent on erradicating all positive matter.
• The second story arc is the X Men, which has more significant changes than the FF. For one thing, the O5 aren't the first team of X Men as the original were once a government owned black ops team (X Men First Class). Another change is Xavier Institute at the beginning is a full fledge school with mutants (looking to learn how to control their powers) and humans (wanting to study on mutant genetics) all attend. Anyway the team itself comprise of students Scott Sommers (who is Chinese on his mother's side), Jean Grey (still a Caucasian red head, but she will display signs of autism), Warren Warrington III (also Caucasian), and Bobby Drake (who is black and bisexual here), and teacher Hank Mc Coy (who is also Caucasian). The story is that dean of the Institution, Charles Xavier, assign his top teacher (Beast) to guide four mutants who could not control their powers due to their own fears when using them. Realizing that conventional methods of teaching wouldn't work, Mc Coy decided to take an unconventional approach and have the youngsters become team inspired by the Fantastic Four heroics to use their powers to help humans and mutants alike. Speaking of mutants, the Brotherhood at the beginning of the story are portrayed as heroes to all mutants who battle the humans that oppressed them; but over time the team itself is revealed to be just as ugly, horrific and racist as the humans they fight against with its core members . . . guess IF Wanderer isn't the only one here politicizing fictional characters. Though to be fair the only members of the group who are truly villainous (or at best a knight templar) are Magneto (Knight Templar), Mystique (He Who Fights Monsters), The Blob (Fat Bastard), Toad (Blind Obedience) and Mastermind (Man Behind the Man) . . . yes Mastermind, like the name suggest, is the real Big Bad instead of Magneto, he is after all a member of the Hellfire Club. The rest (Havok, Banshee, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver) will realize just how wrong the Brotherhood became and turn face by bailing on the group.
• The third story arc is the Avengers, which is a cross between all adaptions of the Avengers. The plot is kind of a remake of the movie, except for the line up (which is based on the comics original founding), the use of the Masters of Evil in its plot, and the Bigger Bad orchrestrating the plot being Kang the Conqueror instead of Thanos. Captain America doesn't have much change to his character, so I will make him act like the way he did in the original run. Tony Stark's character, amusingly, will be merged with Forge; mostly because how similar the characters are and to diversify the team (and to set up more Iron Man appearance in the Xmen, just like in the Silver Age). Thor, as always, will be questioned by the other members as being a god; which will develop an amusing friendship between him and Pym who, being a biologist, wants to study Thor's abnormal biology. Hank Pym here is a cross between the one from the movie (being an old man and veteran hero) and EMH (being focused on science and being a technical pacifist). Wasp here is the daughter of Hank and Janet, so pretty much a combination of Hope (in looks and backstory) and Nadia (in looks and personality); oh, and she is a mutant like the Ultimate Wasp. And Bruce Banner is now Hispanic . . . and that's it since diversifying characters is more important than story changes, but hey the Hulk's intelligence her is more in line to that of EMH.

I think I stop here since this is a long right as is. I plan on creating a series Tumblr post which details what I planned for in my Marvel Revised Universe (as well as DC Revised Universe as I mentioned before).

But right now, how about I show off the designs I drew out for the Marvel Heroes. BTW, some of these aren't the final design (except for maybe Spiderman and the Fantastic Four) as I am still seeking to improve some of the characters appearances (as well as working on their profile page, for a more professional look).

edited 10th Jan '17 9:35:00 PM by BigK1337

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Would the Kents be legal or illegal immigrants? Assimilating or non-assimilating? And would Superman follow suit? Makes a world of difference - if you keep the names verbatim, the message is that immigrants would do best to integrate into the local culture, underscoring America's nature as a melting pot. Contrariwise, if you focus on Superman's alien heritage on top of his immigrant adopted culture and his not-quite-legal operations, you're basically presenting the image of a crash-landed anchor baby that has no respect for local laws and forces his political views through violence. Not exactly a favorable portrayal of immigrants, I think. Or Socialism, for that matter.

In general, whenever Superman's alien nature is underscored too much, particularly in conjunction with how he's supposed to be a paragon for humanity to take example from, I can't help but notice the sort of misanthropic moralizing tune too often heard from angsty teens and pretentious college students. Just about all the things he stands for are self-evident, only he usually benefits from bulletproof anonymity and resources most people simply don't have.

Consequently, when his designated nemesis is nowadays portrayed as growing up in abject poverty and/or a severely abusive environment, and then claimed to represent the worst in humanity, there's the all but Calvinist notion that nobility is determined by birth alone, while poverty and abuse are marks of inherent villainy.

So instead, I envision the conflict between the two as between a well-meaning idealist who doesn't quite get what most people are going through, and a ruthless pragmatist who isn't quite beyond the occasional act of kindness. The self-sacrificing savior who tries to reach out to everyone, and the Sink or Swim Mentor with a dog-eat-dog mentality, and hence distrusting of altruism for its own sake. It's far from a black and white conflict, but that's the point - I find that anything less would simply be unbecoming of Superman's potential as an ideal. After all, if the only moral adversaries he ever confronts are paper-thin strawmen, it is he who looks that much worse for fighting them.

1. Still thinking about it. 2. Can you clarify? like, they'll try to learn English, but they're not going to be "we left the Spanish language on the other side of the border", though they will give Superman an "american" name (Clark, duh) to try and make him fit in more. With this Superman I want to focus on the, for lack of a better word, negotiations of cultural identity imposed to immigrant families in the country they move to.

Hell no, Luthor's going full Trump in my version. Well, he'll be keep his intelligence, but apart from that he'll be filthy rich, ostentatious to the point of a full kitsch aesthetic, and full of himself. And of course, he would then have to move to a Bigger Bad or Man Behind the Man role so it doesn't descend too much into cheap Black-and-White Morality. The shades of gray should come from the other villains, for example Metallo as commentary^note  commentary does not mean longwinded monologue about this on the Military's use of people through promises of patriotism, while just making them weapons. Luthor should be behind it, personifying the exploitative systems in society, but not being in a position where he can simply be punched out of office, so to speak.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV

To clarify, the Kent name alone sounds more Sheen than Estevez, implying a post-immigration change, a dedicated effort to fit in. Superman himself is essentially a disaster refugee, so it's only fair for him to adopt the culture of the planet that hasn't blown itself up in ignorant arrogance. Whether this is the Mexican or American culture in particular makes no difference to me.

Going full Trump is timely at least, though Luthor has already had one stint as president; and I definitely dig the kitsch idea. Check out Justice League Action for a pretty good image of a Luthor that's so hammy he's hilarious... kinda like Trump for those of us observing from a safe distance. As for Metallo, be mindful that this is a world that is regularly attacked by hostile aliens, in much greater numbers than the heroic ones standing up to defend it. If anything, it should be more militaristic and suspicious of aliens, particularly with evil Superman versions from other dimensions thrown into the mix. Anti-militarism is a valid point of view in our world, but not in one where Cthulhu drops by every month for a snack.

edited 11th Jan '17 4:53:02 AM by indiana404

On the Kent last name, I'll change it, it's just that I haven't picked one yet. I'll answer the other stuff when I think about it more.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV

So like a Metal Gear character?

I guess, I'm not very familiar with Metal Gear.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV

Metal Gear is pretty much a bastion of grey and gray morality, or at least black and gray... It would be interesting to see that side of the story in a superhero universe - the grunts and mooks trying to survive in a world of gods and monsters - but somehow I don't think that's what Metallo's revamp was supposed to be about.

Just for an elseworld fic, I wonder how would it look like to have a Chinese Wonder Woman (a Mulan expy of sorts), a gun-totting Batman (the Vektor CP1 is just begging for a bat-logo, no other modifications needed), and the good old Red Son of Krypton. Sort of a Justice League Baen, superheroes as envisioned by military sci-fi writers, starring in a Cold War free-for-all where they frequently have to put aside their differences in the face of larger threats.

For that matter, I wouldn't mind a black Spider-Man, an actual African immigrant raised on tales of Anansi, and consequently being far more of a trickster mastermind fond of non-lethal ironic punishment, than a mopey fragile speedster on a permanent guilt trip. (The web-weaving scene in TASM was the best cinematic moment he's ever had; that's the angle I'd explore.)

edited 11th Jan '17 7:40:20 AM by indiana404

Wait, Luthor in your version is now Deadpool? Thought that only reserve to DC characters like Deathstroke or Harley Quinn.

Anyway, I think for a more complex narrative Luthor should be an anti villain as just making him completely evil in this narrative comes off as straw manning. Maybe take the route of Senator Kelly with his character where he is in the wrong in being against Superman (and to an extent all aliens) but is justified in his wariness with all the alien invasions that happen; and like Kelly, he would eventually change his views overtime as all he wants is to protect Earth and Superman is clearly not an enemy. And, again, something like that was done in Justice League Gods and Monsters where Luthor is anti Superman and made some tech to use against him, but isn't full antagonist and is even more justified in not trusting him (Superman in that movie is Zoe's son . . . why DC didn't made a follow up movie, cause it was a great Elseworld like story).

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Hey, I thought you liked Spider-Man

But not a bad idea though. Speaking of race lifts, I was thinking of making Roy Harper aka Speedy and later Arsenal full blooded Navajo. I'd make him and John Diggle members of Checkmate along other characters like Jade Nguyen, Michael Holt, Lyla Michaels and Sasha Bordeaux and other characters some new, some original. I don't know if I'm going to keep Roy;s history as a superhero or not as I don't want it to be too similar to Grayson, even though Roy was a government agent before Dick was.

As far as race goes, here is a list of characters and their races

DC Heroes

• Superman: Kryptonian . . . okay he'll still be Caucasian like since he is meant to be an idealized version of his creators (both of which are Jewish descent with one being Canadian). If anything he is now Jewish due to his adopted parent being of that religion. Actually it suits the character well given it's teachings (of which includes eating kosher meat philosophy) and not to mention the obvious Jesus undertones that ties to the character. So I guess Superman here is Hebrew.
• Batman: Caucasian. If it were an Elseworld set in Europe than he is African. If it were set in South Africa during Aphartheid than he is Caucasian. But in my revised universe he is white.
• Wonder Woman: Greek Amazon. No explanations needed. Also asexual because fuck all the Wonder Woman ship wars. Wondy loves everybody equally; she would never settle down.
• Hal Jordan: White but now he is bisexual. Let's say that him and Tom are friends with benefits in this continuity, which would explain why he is the first guy he open up to . . . god it's as if my immature gay jokes on the Silver Age manifested into legitimate character changes. Anyway I did that to make the character mirror Captain Jack Harkness of Doctor Wood and Torchwood fame as I found both characters similar . . . his friendship with Green Arrow is going to be awkward now.
• Barry Allen: White again.
• Aquaman: Atlantean royal from his mother, Nauset American from his dad . . . I'm just stereotyping Aquaman's warrior personality here am I?
• Martian Manhunter: Martian, duh. And since he is a shapeshifter, race doesn't really matter. But for form he often take would be a black guy.
• Green Arrow: White.
• The Atom: Black and Nerdy.
• Hawkgirl: Thanagarean. But just like her Justice League and Arrowverse counterpart, she would appear Hispanic.
• Black Canery: White
• Captain Marvel: The hero is Greek, but the alter ego Billy Batson is half Caucasian half Hispanic.
• Zatanna: Black. Though to be fair half black and half magi.
• Plastic Man: White. Debating on making him Japanese as well to fit the Lupin the 3rd narrative I am going with his character.
• Red Tornado: Red and a robot.
• Dick Grayson: White.
• Wally West: Black (with red hair, damnit).
• Aqualad: Atlantean but appear Asian to us surface dwellers.
• Wonder Girl: . . . No clue. Is she a white girl converted into an Amazon or a clay copy of Wonder Woman or a (literal) Titan who appears as a Caucasian human? The world may never know.
• Speedy/Arsenal: White, though I may go with him being Navajo due to one suggestion.
• Jay Garrick: White.
• Alan Scott: White.
• Hawkman: White.
• Wonder Woman (Earth 2): . . . Yeah I think you get the point, most of the original Justice Society members are white. So this includes Dr. Fate, Al Pratt, Starman, Terry Sloane, Dr. Mid-Nite, Hourman, Sandman, Spectre and Ma Hunkel.

Marvel Heroes:

• Spider-Man: . . . No clue at this point but I will say he is white here.
• Fantastic Four: All four are white with Ben being Jewish. No exception.
• Cyclops: As mentioned before he is now Asian. Not going to be obvious since he wears visors but since this race lift will affect his brother it will be clear.
• Jean Grey: White. Female. Autistic. Red Head.
• Angel: White.
• Iceman: B&B, baby. B&B. And again isn't obvious when he is in Ice mode.
• Beast: White
• Captain America: White (and don't have polio, always hated polio Cap).
• Iron Man: Navajo on his father side and Mutant. I did said that I was going to combine his character with Forge.
• Thor: Norweigein. He's a Norse god after all.
• Hank Pym: White
• Nadia Pym: White
• Bruce Banner: Hispanic
• Wolverine: Canadian
• Storm: African
• Colossus: Russian
• Nightcrawler: German
• Banshee: Irish

Okay got bored here. I will work on the villains later.

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Traditionally, Spanish language DC comics (or at least the ones published in Mexico) have re-named Bruce Wayne Bruno Diaz, Dick Grayson Ricardo Tapia, Diana Prince Diana Perez (or Diana Prinz) and Clark Kent...Clark Kent.

It's a nice thought, but it's coincidence. It dates from well before George Perez's run on Wonder Woman. And unless I'm mistaken, the post-Crisis Wonder Woman he worked on never used the Diana Prince alias.

edited 11th Jan '17 9:43:52 PM by Robbery

Diana Perez? Either that's a coincidence or intentionally saying that George Perez will always be the go to Wonder Woman artist.

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So here's a challenge; how do you reinvent the Elite?

Well, I've only got two ideas each for two members, Menagerie and the Hat.

For Menagerie, I'd make Sonja an astronaut who stumbles upon the symbiote that grants her her powers. When she awakes she learns her crew is dead, supposedly killed by her and she is in the custody of what she thinks is the DEO. In reality, she has been captured by Intergang who plan to extract the symbiote from her and are using her to carry out their own agenda. Eventually, Sonja would be rescued by her sister Pamela and her partner Nathan Jones (Coldcast) who in this continuity has no powers.

For The Hat, I'd mostly keep him the same without the murderous tendencies. I'd explore more of his relationship with the demon he's infused with.

I'd play them straight, without the obligatory strawmanning. I'd explore the concept of their type of hero - not the hero people "need" or "deserve" (I find it more than a little presumptuous for the capes themselves to define who fits these terms), but the hero people want, with both the benefits and pitfalls of that sort of mentality. Moreover, upon the inevitable clash with the Justice League, I'd have the Elite point out the numerous violations of civil liberties and international laws the League themselves perpetrate, particularly Batman's disdain for Miranda rights or Cyborg being a one-man NSA when it comes to breaching privacy.

In general, I'd go about roasting the idea of superheroes inherently knowing better than anyone else, never mind jumping on a soapbox whenever they start losing real life popularity. In that regard, the Elite may be the superpowered embodiment of a lynch-mob, yet still present a more than valid counterpoint to the anonymous ivory tower moralist shunning society at every opportunity. Superheroes often explore the idea of detachment from society, what with secret identities and supernatural abilities being used to draw sharp distinctions between mages and muggles, so to speak. Consequently, the idea of them actually losing touch with common people offers a lot of room for exploration. How would Superman deal with the existence of the Elite if he can't just beat them up or magically depower them, and they don't go all Injustice on the world either? What if they remain popular, and he has to deal with trying to be a hero in a world that doesn't automatically agree with his mentality?

I find this a very topical question, as Superman has been grasping for relevance in real life, while video games and television have presented dark anti-heroes galore, with far greater coverage than any comic. Even when Daredevil tried to deconstruct the Punisher's methodology (using a typical third option cop out of the emblematic Ennis rooftop scene), in only managed to gain Castle his own show... no, not that one. And in the more idealistic DCU, it would be interesting to see how a team of genuine anti-heroes would challenge the traditional capes in the long term.

I wonder how they'd react to Wonder Woman. She is different from Superman, so maybe that story might go differently. In that she at least encourages them to use lethal force as a last resort.

I think she would make for a much better philosophical opponent, as while she may be lethal when necessary, she's not usually the type to execute a downed opponent, particularly one within human jurisdiction. This is something they can discuss at length - respecting written laws versus serving the will of a volatile mob.

As for particular revamps, I'd go about making the Elite a sort of reverse X-Men, in that they're quite popular, yet close to sociopathic in the medical sense of the term. Unlike traditional superheroes who milk every excuse to think of themselves as separate from the world, the Elite would be closer to shell-shocked veterans that actively try to connect, with varying levels of success. Imagine Manchester Black amusing some kids with telekinetic tricks while holding back thoughts of his own dark and troubled past, or Menagerie looking for a date that isn't a creepy fetishist. They know they're damaged goods. They know they're at peace with themselves only when they're massacring someone who really has it coming. Yet they try fitting in anyway, and have less than nice things to say about the deliberately costumed and masked vigilantes... so that's another reason they'd likely deal best with Wonder Woman, as her secret identity has been rather rudimentary for quite a while now.

Martian Manhunter: Martian, duh. And since he is a shapeshifter, race doesn't really matter. But for form he often take would be a black guy.

Well his race was destroyed by white supremacists so it fits.

Yeah, funny thing about his homeworlds destruction: Commander Blanx was killed off in the Martian Civil War which would mean the guy won't be around to lead the race to near extinction. So instead, it would be caused by Starro who invaded the planet to absorb all life on Mars. This would lead to all the Martians to come together to fight in a futile attempt for survival. Eventually they have to create a doomsday weapon that would obliterate everything in an attempt to destroy the starfish menace, with a bunker created to shield the surviving martians (green and white) from the impact that is meant to kill Starro. J'onn volunteer to initiate the bomb due to a combination of wanting a slim chance of saving his people and the fact that his love ones were taken from him during the battle against Starro. Luckily through sheer coincidence J'onn is transported to Earth due to an experiment by Dr. Erdel.

And that is the shorten origin I gave for Martian Manhunter in my universe. This origin not only gives an idea of how dangerous Starro is as a starter villain, but also a future plot point for the Justice League to travel to Mars to investigate for any survivals in the destruction of Mars.

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