The ComicBook/ Namespace, and the lack of requirements to qualify

So, I've been looking into Seven Soldiers of Victory for this project.

The only comic ever called that are the opening and closing issues it Seven Soldiers, so something should be done about it. Fortunately, most of the page is covering the Soldiers' Golden Age tales in Leading Comics, so it can easily be moved to Leading Comics with a new description, and a few tropes moved.

The problem is though... with the Characters.Seven Soldiers Of Victory subpage. It has the folders for the members of the titular team. I'm divided on what do with it. I've collected some options.

1: Move to Leading Comics like the other subpages. I don't really feel this option, I don't know why.

2: Split folders between pre-existing character pages ^note  SSK on Justice Society of America or Infinity, Inc.. Stripesy on Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E.. Green Arrow and Speedy back to their folders in Characters/Green Arrow. The rest to All-Star Squadron?. My main problem with this is just that... it could easily keep being its own page, so idk.

3: Move to Characters.DC Comics Seven Soldiers Of Victory. We only use that predefinition on DC Comics: Vandal Savage, but I think we could do here too. In this case it'd be kept specific to the team. Has possible issues because of the existence of the other seven soldiers of victory teams.

4: Move to Justice Society Of America Seven Soldiers Of Victory. Similar to the above. Not too shabby on it, as they're related but feels wrong to put them there. Do would specify it's this version though.

Any opinions, and possibly more options, are very much wanted.

My personal opinion would be to just keep the page, and update it to reflect the franchise, as their have been multiple teams under the banner, and it does have a series to the name, even if it was just shortened to Seven Soldiers. Think of it like The Avengers or Justice League of America. Also I just looked and there is a series under the full title. See here.

Edited by GateStarX on Sep 13th 2023 at 4:28:12 AM

seconded

That series is Seven Soldiers. Our page is just using the wrong name, everything else refers to it as Seven Soldiers of Victory. I could do with turning Seven Soldiers of Victory into an umbrella page for both of them (and mention the other 2). Seven Soldiers can be moved to Seven Soldiers of Victory (2005) too, and having it's characters page merged on the main one.

I will make a sandbox of the pages later.

Still working on the above but wanted to bring something else up

The Comic Books by era indexes (Comic Books of the 1960s, Comic Books of the 1970s etc.) are riddled by "treating ComicBook/, as character pages". I've started cleaning some of the ones that are redirects to character pages, Disambigs or the ComicBook/ page itself has been cleaned of that. But my main concern is that, even for ones where their place there is perfectly fine with the comic's release date, they're phrased as "first appeared in (date)" which I feel contributes to the problem. And of course you have the ones where the ComicBook/ pages themselves haven't been cleaned of that, so it's a bit harder to take it out.

I'd like any feedback and help on cleaning them up.

Edited by JDMA12 on Sep 16th 2023 at 6:49:28 AM

That's been flagged before. Last time I brought it up, I was advised that as the page is in Main and was launched via TLP, it needs to go via Trope Repair Shop to confirm or change its scope.

This applies to all of the decade-specific pages for comics, and possibly some of their equivalents for other media.

I'd advise against making any significant unilateral changes until TRS can take a look at it.

Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 17th 2023 at 9:02:10 AM

So, Seven Soldiers Of Victory Main Page has its description ready (examples still need cleanup). It's fine, but honestly my main problem is that... it looks too much the type of ComicBook/ pages that feel more like character pages that we decided to purge here. Probably because they only really have two comics starring them and only one is under that title. That's why I kinda preferred one of my previous options, but I'll leave y'all to opine on it.

Bump

I'd say my previous opinion still stands. They have a comic, a characters section, and alot of work tropes from the previous anthology series. It makes it easier for people to find and easier to link to.

Ok then, I'll work on the characters list and the Leading Comics examples

Per this thread. There is concern over what the proper namespaces should be regarding superheroes with the Franchise namespace.

I am currently in the midst of trying to update all the links for ComicBook.Spider Man, updating the links under the Franchise namespace to point to the correct page. Because of the sheer amount of links, I have probably updated some that didn’t need to be, but the question is what should the normal namespace be for links? Franchise or Comic Book?

Edited by GateStarX on Oct 16th 2023 at 8:43:21 AM

In our personal imo, medium-specific namespaces should be linked only when referring specifically to that medium, with the Franchise/ link being used when discussing the franchise generally.

Ok so I’ve got examples. But I kind of feel like this is going to turn into an English lesson

• Spider-Man defeated a villain.
• Spider-Man: Spider-Man once defeated a villain.
• The Spider-Man movies are good.
• The Spider-Man franchise is good.
• Spider-Man
  • Spider-Man Trilogy: Spider-Man 2 is good.
  • The Amazing Spider-Man: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is good.

What namespaces or link would be the most appropriate for each example?

• Franchise.Spider Man
• ComicBook.Spider Man
• Characters.Spider Man Peter Parker

Right now the standard for every superhero is to just use the Comic Book namespace when talking about a superhero or their movie, as most of them don’t have solo character pages or franchise pages.

I’ve been following that formatting and moving Spider-Man under the same namespace format. Under the examples the only one I would use the Franchise namespace for is when there is more than one adaption, otherwise I would just use the Comic Book namespace.

I'd tend to agree. For Spider-Man -

• If you want to talk about things that reappear throughout the entire franchise (or most of it) - Peter and Miles, Venom black costume origins in most versions, Green Goblin and Doc Ock as major villains... franchise links make sense.

• If you're specifically talking about comic continuity, the main ComicBook page unless a character or series-specific page is more appropriate.

Reasonable?

What about when just referencing Spider-Man? There are a lot of pages that don’t talk about him at all but just reference him.

Edited by GateStarX on Oct 17th 2023 at 4:25:05 AM

Probably Franchise/, as it's a reference to the franchise as a whole.

I’m near positive that people are talking about the are usually talking about the character or the comicbook. TBH the Franchise page is near useless. It requires 3 things to even exist and by the time it does most links are to the main work instead. The franchise usually just functions as a index, all links go to comicbook, the only reason it was being linked to before is because it had work tropes which have since been moved to either the comic or the character. Even before I started the move there were more wicks to the comicbook namespace than the franchise.

I got a bit heated there, but my main point is that most people link towards the main work namespace rather than the franchise namespace, so the links should all go to the same place instead of being split and follow the example set by the rest of the franchise pages.

Edited by GateStarX on Oct 18th 2023 at 12:17:28 PM

I think Franchise/ is the safer option for ambiguous links.

Well 9 times out of 10 during my combing through links, there's a bunch of other superheroes listed under the comicbook namespace, and then there is just Spider-Man or Superman under the Franchise namespace littered between them.

Remember, until 2021, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, and Wolverine were all exclusivly on the franchise namespace with the comicbook namespaces just being redirects. They were all moved over to the comicbook namespace after discussion but because of the sheer mass of links none of them were updated. I did manage to do Wolverines because his links were only 2000ish, but the rest are at near 5K to 10K.

The only page ignored was Spider-Man, because there were tropes on both the comicbook namespace and franchise namespace. Recently, however, the Marvel cleanup thread has been working on cleaning up the pages, and making new ones for related works. Nearly all the tropes were merged into ComicBook.Spider Man, so that necessitated the franchise namespace links to be moved to the comicbook namespace, as the franchise page is no longer Spider-Man's main page. I'm planning on updating the intros of both pages to reflect this soon but I need to consult with everyone else first before that happens.

So if the comicbook namespace is the main page, that should be the standard link across all pages on the site. Even before I started it was weighed more to the comicbook namespace at aprox 5K compared to the franchise namespace's aprox 3K. I have since managed to merge it so they are now around 7-8K all directing to the main page with access to the majority of his tropes, with aprox 500 links left under the franchise page.