Chart Displacement cleanup post

I feel like the trope page for Chart Displacement is straying too far from the classic definition (the artist's highest-charting song overall isn't considered their signature).

Quite a few of the entries are of artists who avert this trope on the Hot 100. In my opinion, if an artist has multiple songs that share their highest peak, yet some of their signatures fell short, it's still chart displacement.

Here's a list of artists who should stay or go.

• Keep: Hammer (there's a good reason why "Pray" isn't his signature), Alice in Chains, Everclear, FOB, Foo Fighters, Gin Blossoms, Modest Mouse, NIN, Papa Roach, Pearl Jam, Presidents, Vampire Weekend, White Stripes, Chemical Brothers, Guetta, Jamiroquai, Moby, New Order, Busta, Cool J, Ludacris, Public Enemy, Rick Ross, Salt N Pepa, 5SOS, Avril, Backstret Boys, Christina Aguilera, CMB, Cyndi, Danity Kane, Demi Lovato, Ginuwine, Gloria Estefan, Goo Goo Dolls, J.Lo, Jo Jo, Bieber, Mandy Moore, Matchbox, Milli, Neil Diamond, 1D, Paula Cole, Rebecca Black, Rembrandts, Rick James, R Kelly, Timbaland, Avenged Sevenfold, Breaking Benjamin (I consider "Diary of Jane" their overall signature), Dick Dale, Disturbed, 5FDP, Godsmack, Undead, Korn, Manson, Metallica, Ozzy, RATM, Saliva, Scorpions, 38 Special, AC/DC, Billy Squier, Blessid Union, Seger, Boston, Bryan Adams, Buckcherry, The Cars, Cheap Trick, Chuck Berry, Def Leppard, Duran, Clapton, Europe, Fleetwood, General Public, Thorogood, Heart, Iggy Pop, Lennon, Journey, Kansas, Kid Rock, KISS, Zeppelin, Nazareth, Benatar, Phil Collins, Queen, Ramones, Red Rider, Romantics, Styx, Ritchie Valens, Van Morrison (and Them), War, Warrant, The Who, ZZ Top, Marley, The Time, Vince Guaraldi
• Likely staying: Biggest hit in their homeland
• On the fence: The artists with multiple #1's, longest reigns at a peak, native formats, Sabbath, The Clash (I consider "Stay" and "Casbah" their signatures), Creed, Jimi, biggest hits on an album
• Unsure: I don't know much about hip-hop, and nothing about country music
• Delete: Artists whose signature was their biggest hit

Interesting. I question the initial premise ("[e]very musician has a Signature Song"). The article Signature Song says otherwise, though I'm not sure it goes far enough.

• As the article points out, some musicians have so many hits that it's hard to point to any one as a signature song. (Examples mentioned include Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, and The Beatles.)
• Alluded to, but not discussed in detail: some musicians have multiple audiences. An obvious example would be Neil Young, who has huge audiences amongst everything from grunge/punk fans to country fans. (Heck, if you're trying to organize by genre, Neil would be hard to place, as he's dabbled in so many.) Ask a random Neil Young fan what his "signature song" is, and you'll probably get any of a half-a-dozen different answers, depending on the fan's tastes. (The examples given are "Old Man" or "Heart of Gold", which was clearly written by a country fan—rock fans would be more likely to cite "Cinnamon Girl" or "Rust Never Sleeps" or perhaps his early signature, "Mr. Soul".)
• Some musicians don't do "hits" in general. Not every musician is a pop star.
• Many musicians don't write "songs".

On top of that, Chart Displacement depends heavily on the definition of Signature Song, but Signature Song is YMMV. Seems like Chart Displacement should be as well, by the transitive property.

I agree that this looks ripe for some cleanup, though. Or at least some clarification. Signature Song might need some cleanup too, although the fact that it's YMMV may save it to some extent.

To be frank, I have to question why Signature Song is YMMV. I don't recall any discussion about it when it was added.

I suggested in another thread that Chart Displacement (and Two-Hit Wonder) should be trivia, but no one responded.

edited 25th Jul '16 10:05:40 AM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Hmm, well it's clear that none of them are tropes. (Including Chart Displacement.) Trivia does seem like it makes the most sense.

That said, there is something a bit YMMV-y about Signature Song as well. At least in some cases. (Like Neil Young, as I discussed above.)

This might be a bit off-topic, but I wonder if Signature Song should be trivia as well.

Going off of this, to use an example, Fall Out Boy lists SEVEN Signature Songs. I feel like dual cleanup may be necessary, because no matter what metric you use, seven is way too many "signature" songs.

Even if they're split by album?

The problem with signature song as trivia is that their isn't necessarily a set criteria to determine it, especially considered the definition states that the signature isn't necessarily the artist's highest charting song.

Just found this thread and hope to bring it back into the spotlight after nearly five years.

I am going to expand on this by saying that I disagree with the artists whose biggest hit were their signatures to be removed, because Chart Displacement can still happen in lower ranges. Also, I found an additional problem with the pages: inconsistent wording.

For instance, take the Michael Jackson example, where one bullet point says that his #1 "I Just Can't Stop Lovin' You" isn't obscure, yet the bullet point just below that one says it is "seemingly forgotten now". How much of a difference is there between "obscure" and "forgotten"? And according to the Tips Worksheet, tropes should be written like they were by the same person. Yes, I know this is trivia and not a trope, but still.

Also, regarding YMMV, I do agree that since it heavily relies on Signature Song, which is YMMV, that this trope should be, too. Conversely:

• Jason Derulo has two #1 hits: his debut single, 2009's "Whatcha Say", and 2020's "Savage Love (Laxed - Siren Beat)" with Jawsh 685 (helped by a remix featuring BTS). Neither song is as iconic as 2014's "Talk Dirty" (featuring 2 Chainz), which only peaked at #3, or 2015's "Want to Want Me", which peaked at #5.

The latter #1 is somewhat new; It could become even more popular in the future like many other songs (though I somewhat doubt this). The former #1, on the other hand, has a memetic chorus, no? Whoever added that example thought that people think the latter two songs are contenders for his signature, while I still think that "Whatcha Say" is his signature thanks to its chorus, thus bringing back up YMMV.

Also, I do know at least some things about Country Music to say this:

Rodney Atkins' example says that "Take a Back Road" is "much lesser-known" than his first two #1s, and below that, the Vince Gill example says that none of Gill's #1s, including his featured credits, are obscure. First of all, I hear TaBR as a recurrent just as much as, if not more than, his first two #1s, so I wonder if 1) "much lesser-known" actually means forgotten, or 2) "much lesser-known" still means somewhat well-known, but the other two songs are on off-the-chart levels of well-known. Second of all, one of Gill's "non-obscure" #1s is his featured credit on Chris Young's "Sober Saturday Night", which I never hear as a recurrent, and because of that, I forgot how the song sounded until around two months ago. How big is the range between "much lesser-known" and "not obscure"? How is SSN not obscure compared to TaBR?

I would list more examples, but I don't wanna go overboard. Also, Rule of Three.