Condemned by History cleanup thread

Yeah, that doesn't even begin to qualify for this trope...maybe another, but not this.

That's exactly the sort of entry that we'll be removing en masse once we get around to cleaning up the bloated monstrosities of shoehornage that are the New Media and Real Life pages.

Speaking of which, I know that a couple of people are chomping at the bit to get to Live-Action TV, but now that we're zeroing in on the last few Music examples, I'd like to move that we do Real Life next. It seriously is the elephant in the room; it's probably got more bad examples than good ones, and more are being added every day. We're going to have to deal with it sooner or later, it might as well be now.

I'll start by proposing a straight-up cut of the Politics and Religion folders. There are some valid enough examples in Politics, but cataloging them is pretty off-mission for this site.

edited 25th Sep '16 7:16:32 AM by HighCrate

That's getting ahead of myself, though. Back to DeaderThanDisco.Music. Current votes:

• Female Solo Artists
  • Natalia Kills:
    • Cut: Largo, Laptop, High Crate
    • Keep: From The Words, Larkmarn
  • Avril Lavigne:
    • Cut: Laptop, High Crate, Xtifr
    • Fence: Larkmarn
    • Keep: Largo, From The Words
  • Tila Tequila:
    • Cut: Laptop, High Crate, Xtifr
    • Keep: Largo (but move to Live-Action TV), From The Words, Larkmarn (but move to Live-Action TV)
• Bands / Groups:
  • Osmond Family:
    • Cut: Laptop, High Crate, Willbyr, Xtifr
    • Keep: Largo, From The Words, Larkmarn
  • Wanted:
    • Keep: Laptop, Larkmarn
    • Fence: From The Words
    • Cut: Largo, High Crate

And the Songs and Fictional Examples folders, which haven't been discussed much yet:

• Sugar Sugar: It may have been the best-selling song of its year, but was it ever considered anything other than a disposable bubblegum hit? Cut.
• Baby Its Cold Outside: Entry straight-up says how newer performances of the song have changed with the times. It's not Changed-er Than Disco, it's Deader Than Disco. Cut.
• Do They Know Its Christmas: Begins by downplaying its subject's success. Cut.
• Christmas Shoes: Wow, number 42 on the charts? What a runaway smash. Cut.
• Woman: Can't even parse what this entry is trying to say. Cut.
• Call On Me: Entry describes obscurity, not backlash. Cut.
• Whatever the hell that is under Fictional Examples: Does not describe popularity, backlash, or anything having to do with this trope. Cut, burn, load ashes onto a rocket into the sun.

I'll agree with a cut on the entire Songs and Fictional folders. The exception is that I'm not sure what "topping the Adult Contemporary chart in the US" means in terms of popularity. Billboard listings isn't the be-all-end-all of popularity.

A sample of the kind of stuff that's constantly popping up in DeaderThanDisco.Real Life, this was just added today:

• Airliner hijackings, at least in the traditional sense. The overtly strict security measures at the airports and the security protocols, while universally experienced as a nuisance at least, have also meant hijackers have very little room to play anymore. Aviational terror has focused on bombings since The Oughts rather than hijackings. Furthermore the classic "take me to Cuba" or "take me to the West" hijackings of the cold war era died with the Cold War and the hijackings for money are now much more difficult to pull of due to 9/11. Basically (one of) the reasons why 9/11 worked was that nobody even thought of the possibility of suicidal hijackers. Even during the attacks themselves after three hijackings had gone as planned by the terrorists people on the fourth plane knew what was up and managed to bring it down killing themselves in the process over a field in Pennsylvania instead of the intended target. While the behavior most likely to keep people alive in a "classical" hijacking was sitting down and doing what the hijackers said - even if they had political and not monetary goals - because the hijackers needed the passengers as hostages. The attacks on the twin towers changed the whole ballgame. Passengers could not be sure they would be needed alive and hijackers could not be sure the passengers would be mostly docile (after all, when the hijackers intend to use the pane as a weapon and kill the passengers, the hostages have nothing to lose), this all combined to make hijacking a plane for money or to free comrades in arms a highly undesirable strategy.

Cutting. Remember when airplane hijackings were totally popular? All the coolest kids would go straight home from school and hijack an airplane. They couldn't wait, they were that into it. Then the backlash happened, and even the biggest fans of hijacking airplanes were embarrassed, playing it off as a lame phase they went through before moving on to the real cool terrorist crime, which was flying planes into buildings. Remember that? Guys? Remember?

edited 25th Sep '16 10:33:18 AM by HighCrate

I wonder if we should just throw that page on the cutlist.

Actually, you know what? Rather than go through this crap entry by entry with the whole thread, I'm going to start a sandbox page, make the cuts I want to make, and submit that to the thread for approval and changes. Sound good?

edited 25th Sep '16 10:42:48 AM by HighCrate

Sounds good to me.

Here's what I think can stay from DeaderThanDisco.Real Life.

Cut the vast majority of Automobiles and Businesses entries for the same reason: all of them describe businesses that fell on hard times due to economic realities or being replaced by a superior competitor, but none of them describe any particular backlash or the subject being the butt of jokes or retroactive embarrassment. One of the few I left is Blockbuster thanks to that South Park episode, although even that one is debatable; it doesn't retroactively mock Blockbuster, just Stan's dad for thinking it was still a viable business long after it wasn't.

Cut the Religion, Politics, and Science folders for being off-mission. Cut the Technology folder for largely the same reason as the Businesses ones; it's full of entries that describe an older technology being replaced by a newer one and falling into obscurity with little to no actual backlash. Ditto everything in Food and Drink except Zima, which might be the most clearly valid example on the entire page.

Most of the stuff in Other was cut for similar reasons: not describing initial popularity, not describing universal backlash, or being off-mission and/or just plain squicky.

That leaves us with six entries, which could easily be put into a folder in the main Deader Than Disco page and this page cut.

edited 25th Sep '16 11:30:38 AM by HighCrate

Did the same thing with DeaderThanDisco.New Media. Cut the vast majority of Computer Programs and Hardware, Web Sites, and Web Video for the same reason: they described something that was fine for its time that died due to an ill-considered redesign and/or a superior competitor emerging and/or simple changing tastes, without any retroactive backlash. Deleted the Other folder entirely for being pretty much nothing but poorly-explained misuse.

I haven't touched the Fanfiction folder at all, because that's not a fandom that I'm involved with and I have no freaking idea what's considered "inescapably popular" within that sphere. From my perspective, no fanfiction is mainstream enough to qualify and the whole thing can be cut for all I care, but I'll leave that decision to the better-informed.

I propose merging the Computer Programs and Hardware and Web Sites folders and moving them to the main page. Fanfiction can either be moved to the main page, spun off into its own page, or cut altogether, depending on what more-informed heads decide.

edited 25th Sep '16 11:26:16 AM by HighCrate

I'd cut video stores. I don't think one episode about it in one series is enough. It's entirely about technological advancement, not mocked for how it used to be.

Wood-paneling in cars can probably be remain. It's a short example, and while it doesn't explain how popular it was (I think it was popular enough, though), it does bring up the derision.

Overall, I'd say science isn't about popularity as about what people actually thought was scientifically correct. If it's allowed, basically anything discredited would fit, since everything that has been discredited has been mocked.

In the Fanfiction folder, the Ranma ½ example is accurate, although it's kind of generic.

Don't think I have anything else to comment on, other than that I'd do much the same.

I think restructuring pages can be done after we're done going through all pages, since then we see what's left.

I think the "automotive city" should stay

It was universally popular (at the very least in Europe and North America and also in some other places, including Latin America) and it is now regarded as an embarrassment and the typical reaction when it is brought up is usually "how could we ever be that stupid"?

I wouldn't say every discredited theory in science has been mocked. Old ideas were based on what was known at the time & changes in science are due to advances in our knowledge; in that regard, it's no different from the technology examples that are frowned upon.

Fair point about restructuring pages, Another Duck. We can leave that until we're done cutting misuse, there are probably a lot that can be moved to the main page.

I have no problem cutting video stores and retaining wood paneling, so long as we add something to the wood paneling example establishing how popular it was.

I don't know how it is in Europe, but in the U.S. as much as everyone decries the problems of traffic and pollution, automotive culture is so ingrained (has to do with our national love affair with individualism; with a car, you don't have to operate on mass transit's schedule, you can go exactly where you want exactly when you want to... unless you can't because of traffic, but nobody ever said it made sense) that I'd be hard-pressed to call "the automotive city" Deader Than Disco. Going that way, maybe (and hopefully!), but not there yet. There are still many major cities where anyone without access to a personal automobile is effectively a second-class citizen.

edited 25th Sep '16 1:56:06 PM by HighCrate

I'd keep "The Christmas Shoes". It was a big holiday hit on AC radio that inspired a TV movie starring Rob Lowe.

There was a clear backlash against the song, as it was mocked and doesn't get played on the radio anymore.

edited 25th Sep '16 2:22:34 PM by AreYouTyler

Agreed, that one can stick around.

As for wood paneling in cars, I've been seeing advertisements for at least one luxury car that show wood paneling being apparently hand carved for its interior, so I doubt that counts.

edited 25th Sep '16 2:43:37 PM by Willbyr

Me Too!.

Fair enough. I was not aware of that.

edited 25th Sep '16 2:50:34 PM by AnotherDuck

Good enough for me. Wood paneling is back out. Might go under Popularity Polynomial if it's coming back.

I'd love that, by the way. I miss the days of wood paneling on things. Especially electronics, like the Atari 2600.

I loved playing Combat. Especially with only bounced shots. /derail

Speaking as someone who has edited the RL section and is really interested in societal trends... you're absolutely right, this isn't really ours to discuss. to the cuts.

Remaining DeaderThanDisco.Music split decisions with current votes:

• Female Solo Artists
  • Natalia Kills:
    • Cut: Largo, Laptop, High Crate
    • Keep: From The Words, Larkmarn
  • Avril Lavigne:
    • Cut: Laptop, High Crate, Xtifr
    • Fence: Larkmarn
    • Keep: Largo, From The Words
  • Tila Tequila:
    • Cut: Laptop, High Crate, Xtifr
    • Keep: Largo (but move to Live-Action TV), From The Words, Larkmarn (but move to Live-Action TV)
• Bands / Groups:
  • Osmond Family:
    • Cut: Laptop, High Crate, Willbyr, Xtifr
    • Keep: Largo, From The Words, Larkmarn
  • Wanted:
    • Keep: Laptop, Larkmarn
    • Fence: From The Words
    • Cut: Largo, High Crate

I've cut everything in the Songs folder besides Christmas Shoes, which has a strong consensus in favor of Keep.

Of the remaining splits, the cuts outnumber the keeps. Giving it another day for last-minute votes or changes of heart, then I'm going to start cutting.

edited 26th Sep '16 12:22:32 PM by HighCrate

After some consideration, I might be barefoot, but I'd keep the Christmas Shoes.

Taking Christmas Shoes off the list, that has a strong consensus in favor of Keep at this point.

I'm throwing in a last-minute keep for Avril.