Star Wars: The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

Yep, it was just one of the strips of his cloak. His cloak is split into 4 large strips from the mid thigh down. Rey sliced one of them off. He wouldn't be able to stand or fight if he lost a limb at that point in the fight.

So all this stuff the book has like Leia keeping Snoke from Han or Ren actually despising his dad while never having been seen as an adult by him till the big confrontation canon to the movies backstory but never elaborated upon or just only in the book?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

So, finally watched that there Force Awakens. Really could've done better with that title, there, because TFA pretty much has nothing to do with anything outside maybe Rey getting into the hang of Jedi-ing. :/

For that matter, I didn't like Rey too much. She yelped all the time, she alternated between being useless and being hypercompetent to the point that she somehow was able to fly the Falcon better than Han could and somehow made mind tricks work despite them having been pretty much nonexistent in the movie until then (even Luke was still taking baby steps when A New Hope ended, displaying only limited precog and really good targeting prowess). That bit where she and Finn were flying through the Star Destroyer wreckage was genuinely good, however.

Actually, now that I think of it, all of the ship battles were pretty fantastic. The TIE Fighter escape was probably the best scene in the entire movie, and it made my opinion of Poe Dameron go from some guy I don't know or care about (and who the hell was the old guy in the first minute or five, anyways, beyond being a former Jedi?) to BEST CHARACTER IN THE FILM YAY, and I wish we'd gotten to see how Poe got off Jakku onscreen (although at least we got half an explanation). Every moment he and Finn had together was a treat for me. They were pretty solid bros, and I think Finn had way better chemistry with Poe than with Rey. Finn himself was relatively decent, with his unique backstory as an indoctrinated stormtrooper deserter helping with that. I hope he gets to use a lightsaber again, because his two duels were absolutely fantastic, especially in contrast to Rey's.

The villains weren't a disappointment so much as just not very impactful. Starkiller Base as a hollowed-out planet of eternal winter that ate suns and fired Galaxy Gun blasts was a neat twist on your average superweapon of the month, and its destruction was genuinely cool to watch, but it didn't feel like it had the buildup the Death Star it was aping did, but the First Order itself never really had much of a presence. We never got anything like the Death Star conference where Vader choked a dude with his mind, and any named villains that weren't Kylo Ren had barely any screentime at all. They were just there to be people to fight. Snoke was possibly the one exception- his face and stature gave me a sense of "what the fuck is this" that made me genuinely want to see more of him. I kinda wish we got to see more of the individual stormtroopers, they had some decent scenes (like that one dude with the electrostaff and the two mooks smart enough to back away when Ren was in full meltdown mode).

On the subject of Kylo Ren- apart from looking and sounding like a low-rent Benedict Cumberbatch, he also manages to capture Hayden Christensen's portrayal of Anakin Skywalker's whining and violent tantrums down to the letter (although he'd probably take that as a compliment, seeing as he's just a glorified rabid fanboy with powers). Even with the mask on he never seemed particularly threatening like Vader did, and in a movie of lines and deliveries that fluctuated wildly around par (seriously, some of the dialogue wouldn't seem out of place in the worst of the prequels' moments), Ren's tended towards the lower end. The one scene of his where I genuinely liked his acting was where he offed Han, which, while it came at the cost of having everybody else looking silly in how "OMG THEY KILLED AN OT CHARACTER" they reacted, was still far better executed than I thought a scene with Han NOT going out like a badass could possibly be. Just part of the trend of this movie making the most of a poor plot ripped straight from A New Hope (seriously, this movie could just be called THE SEARCH FOR EPISODE IV and it'd work much better).

Oh, that's right, OT characters! I generally thought they were wasted. Leia was okay, but didn't have much presence, although I guess her reunion with Han was nice? Han was pretty much just Harrison Ford being pulled along for the ride for the sake of a paycheck, although he game a couple more shits than I would've expected him to. Chewie was actually consistently entertaining to watch (as was his bowcaster, which is suddenly capable of ragdolling woohoo!), and was one of the two characters whose jokes never missed a mark, the other being BB-8 (who is amazing and totally deserves all of the attention the media and merchandising gives it). Lando doesn't exist because it's not time for Empire Strikes Back yet, and this disappoints me. Ackbar and Nien Numb are cameos that don't make too much sense to me- shouldn't they be more busy with the New Republic proper? C-3P0 annoyed me every moment he was on screen and talking. R2-D2 was a plot device, and I would've liked to see him chat with BB-8 some more. Luke was an outright disappointment- going into hiding seems really out of character for him, and him showing up at the end (looking more like Obi-Wan than Ewan Mc Gregor did, and also completely different from what he looks like out of film even in the modern day) capped off an ending that felt both both rushed and inconclusive and like it dragged on and on and on and on and ON because fuck this movie's pacing, seriously. (Okay, it's not that bad, but still.)

What else? Hm... The effects were decent, that's for sure. Abrams was smart enough to open the movie with a pretty decent spin on the prerequisite Star Destroyer entrance, something I was expecting him to miss. I didn't pay attention to the music as much as I wish I could've until Luke's Theme slapped me in the face near the end. The New Republic capitol getting Alderaan'd was neat but didn't feel like it had much impact, even though it took place after the point in the film where the pacing went from "too fast to actually give you a sense of what's going on, which you'll need because the trailers aren't saying jack" to "GET ON WITH IT ALREADY". It also felt kinda stupid, because if your armies are already having trouble with only a token resistance force, you sure as hell don't want to get the entire might of the Republic brought on your head when the only reason they hadn't before was because they didn't think you were a threat. Fights were generally okay-to-pretty-good, as mentioned. The "HEY THE OT IS BACK" subtext was pretty high as expected, but I endured. The new toys were cooler than the attempts at remaking OT classic stuff. The flashback scene was pretty neat, and the two pirate forces were okay, I guess. Dialogue varied from the aformentioned Lucas-esque dialogue with lines you'd expect from more modern action films, and it doesn't really mesh too well. The whole thing with Luke's academy getting trashed by Han and Leia's kid seemed like the movie was trying too hard to be grim and gritty when it didn't really earn it.

...is that it? I think that's all I have to say, or at least all I can remember. In general, this film was okay. A total A New Hope ripoff, but at least one that has a few good ideas in it. Decent enough, on par with the prequels, I suppose.

edited 23rd Dec '15 9:37:34 PM by EndlessSea

but HOW?

Revan parallels? It was actually Rey who killed all the Jedi. Ben turned to the dark side because he couldn't cope with the loss of his colleagues.

I found the force awakens to be a greatly entertaining movie, but one that I will always look with some disdain due it basically having not a single solid original thought in it. It apes the plot structure of A New Hope to the point of stupidity.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

The Revan idea is a good theory.

Largely agree. I feel like it's better than the prequels by a good margin though. The main plot was kind of a waste but most of the dialog was decent.

Kylo should have kept his damned mask on for another movie at least and I feel like they killed Han too quick to try and force emotional involvement.

This is my single largest problem. It was a Episode IV rehash to a disgusting degree, with additions from V in the form of Hoth, Cloud city father-son scene, etc.

I Initially had a lot of anger that Han got killed, for entirely unbiased reasons, given I'm completely objective and have no special love for him, but even after I cooled off I feel it was poorly done. If they wanted to kill him, it should have been done at a later point.

edited 23rd Dec '15 9:03:05 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack

I like the idea of Space!Churchill being the new Chancellor. Maybe that'll be del Toro's role?

Harrison Ford wasn't going to come back for any more movies.

He'd probably die if he did anyway, like in real life. He keeps injuring himself.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

@Antiteilchen: As a 5-year old? Most impressive

Revan got false memories. Why not Rey? (I'm not serious about that by the way.)

I found A New Hope to be a greatly entertaining movie, but one that I will always look with some disdain due it basically having not a single solid original thought in it. It apes the plot structure of The Hero's Journey to the point of stupidity.

A New Hope gets a pass because it was the first in the series and introduced most of it's concepts.

It's not even the best Star Wars movie anyway but without it there is no series.

So, on merit alone, it gets a pass.

edited 23rd Dec '15 9:17:57 PM by RunoEddie

See, but ANH knows that it's a giant stew of every basic storyline ever, and it does it WELL.

So it gets a pass. It's cheesy as hell, but who doesn't love cheese?

Vegans. Those with Lactose intolerance. Members of this Facebook group.

edited 23rd Dec '15 9:14:16 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack

I can't have dairy, but I still love cheese. (Which kind of cheese? Yes.)

but HOW?

Cheese is the reason I'm just a vegetarian, not a full vegan.

Do they have cheese in the GFFA? If so, what's it made from?

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."

Rancor milk.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

It's a bit of a false equivalence to compare The Force Awakens's self-plagiarilism with A New Hope because The Hero's Journey, as a concept, is entirely about being a grand narrative that can be found in most narratives (some say all narratives if you look hard enough) of mankind's long existence. Aping the hero's journey isn't as much plagiarism as it is common sense.

Which also goes to say a New Hope had a lot more going for it than just the hero's journey, namely...everything that makes Star Wars star wars. Jedi, the Force, lightsabers, the space western elements, the charismatic and iconic characters, visuals, and what have you. Some people make the argument (which I find rather far-fetched) that star wars isn't original either because it just stole all that from previous stories, but even then it's undeniable the specific mixture of these elements has some originality to it.

The problem I have with the Force Awakens is that it just lifts wholesale everything from A New Hope. It's not even plagiarizing from a new source to bring something new to the franchise if not the audience, it's plagiarizing entirely from its own franchise, thus not bringing absolutely anything new to the table.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

The Force Awakens suffers somewhat from being a movie made too much for a fandom, rather than attempting to stretch its legs and be a story of its own. It goes out of its own way to be reminiscent of the the OT, to the point of lifting character types and concepts completely so as to make the audience go "hey, it's just like the old movie we remember!" or to play with the audience's expectations by twisting things - sometimes it plays a bit too much like a homage piece than an actual new installment in the series.

Even Ren's plot is a condensation of Vader's plot, with the twist at the end being that "Vader" doesn't choose good this time. Which I don't mind, except that I feel like we got the bare minimum in regards to Snoke - who is nothing but ESB Palpatine 2.0 in this movie.

Though I don't quite agree with the accusation of it being too fanficcy in that respect, I do understand the feeling. Sometimes the sense of "years later, the entire plot just started all over again" gets a bit overwhelming, and it probably would've been even worse had the movie not focused on two people who had a very different perspective of things from our protagonists the first two times around.

I keep wondering whether I'd have been able to follow the movie at all if I weren't a fan. One of the way the movie lacks context is by clearly expecting the viewer to know about certain elements of the universe and get relevant concepts already without bothering to reintroduce them, which isn't a good idea (especially in the first movie of a self-contained plot, even within a universe).

edited 23rd Dec '15 9:56:03 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Cheese is the reason I could see myself as a vegetarian but not a vegan.

Ham is the reason I'm neither. Mmmm. Ham...

Exactly. I got tired of the shout outs quickly. Many were well done(the Millennium Falcon intro was brilliant), but there were several scenes that were nearly shot-for-shot. Han and Kylo's confrontation bothered me, not just for his death, but for the fact that it was Cloud city all over again.

I'm baaaaaaack

I'll be honest. I really like Kylo Ren and much of that has to do with him the film really owning that he's a Darth Vader wannabe.

Lets just all hope & be positive that after establishing the new setting & getting nostalgia points that 8 will tread new ground & be its own thing kinda. I mean 7 oddly enough hit a lot of points from 4 & 5 so yeah the chance of new stuff's pretty high.

Yeah Ren's a pretty good antagonist on his own merits really. Lets all again hope that he truly starts owning that Sith badassery soon.

edited 23rd Dec '15 10:11:19 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Eh, I just want someone new. At this point, Ren being a badass would feel weird.

but HOW?

I probably said this already but I loved him for the first half. Once we started finding out more about him and he threw tantrums I liked him a lot less.

At the same time, that's probably because I was looking for a new Darth Vader. He's not that, at all, though Snoke seems to play a good Palpatine stand in. Which is Fine, Palps was pretty generic as far as evil emperors go.

I'm baaaaaaack