Teen Titans (2003)

Which is really weird as they are the two Titans that have been in the superhero business the longest, they beat the other Titans with experience by years.

It's a headscratcher really. I think the showrunners were going to try establishing a friendship between the two but never really got around to it before the show went off the air.

I never quite understood why people thought Slade was the greatest villain ever. He certainly wasn't, not even in his original incarnation. He always came off to me as an assassin or loaded gun type rather then a chess master. Wasn't Brother Blood's original invarnation an chess master? I can understand why he was heavily changed (his powers and his cult could scare a lot of parents...)...

edited 19th Aug '15 4:35:42 PM by Bleddyn

But either, that's not my biggest problem with that episode. I still don't understand why Adonis was transforming too.

True, true. Having a Satanic cult villain as the main bad guy would make parents uncomfortable. It sure is a good thing they got rid of that for the show. Especially compare to the next season big bad who is . . . Satan.

Okay, not actually Satan, but definitely have all the qualities. His evil plan? Create the apocalypse on Earth. How? By sacrificing his own daughter of which he must push to the dark side by reviving an enemy of theirs from the grave to use his mind rape abilities to make hlet evil like the last girl he did. . . . Well at least they didn't bother to mention how Raven is a child of rape, so that's one thing they censored for that season.

edited 19th Aug '15 5:25:43 PM by BigK1337

Well there was that and then there was his original powers. I think they might of did better with it if they used Psimon instead of Brother Blood for the H.I.V.E stuff. I think he might of fit the role better considering he was already a psychic villian (obviously) and that he was the leader of the Fearsome Five (the original incarnation of the H.I.V.E Five) in the comics.

Brother Blood's original powerset was a lot more gruesome. It's in his name after all. They could of used Brother Blood later on for Trigon, it would of made sense in the context. I am pretty sure the stupid parental groups would of picked up on it though...

Now that I am thinking about it though in regards to Slade. What if instead of Slade be a reoccurring villain that he was just one of the many assassins that were trying to gunning for the Titans after they established themselves as a good team. I think that might of worked out better. Makes me wonder if someone made a Alternate Universe Fan Fic on that premise.

edited 19th Aug '15 5:39:16 PM by Bleddyn

I've heard that the two didn't really have any particular relationship in the comics either, other than co-workers. I know there was a time when there was conflict between the two, with Dick thinking that Gar couldn't handle responsibility. I believe that was when Geoff Jones was writing the comic.

I'll say this for the guy, he certainly had presence. His popularity is probably helped by the fact that so few of the show's villains were given backstories, or even fleshed out personalities.

I've personally always preferred Brother Blood to Slade. He doesn't seem as pompous as Slade, and I think he was more entertaining to watch. I would've preferred if they had kept his interest in Cyborg pragmatic, rather than becoming obsessed with him. I thought it weakened his character.

I know there was a time when there was conflict between the two, with Dick thinking that Gar couldn't handle responsibility. I believe that was when Geoff Jones was writing the comic.

The Titans lineup that Geoff Johns wrote had Tim, not Dick, though.

The two were interacting, but I can't recall what Nightwing's role in the storylines was. I assume he might still drop in on his old team, even if he's not longer an official memebr.

But like I said, I can't remember exactly what time period this happened in.

Because he's Bad Ass. Sometime being a charismatic planner and kicking ass while having cool voice is all it takes to be awesome.

Becuase I was a kid that didn't read Teen Titans comics, I though Slade was really great as a villain. Nowadays I much prefer Deathstroke to him, but that voice performance is still great.

So with that logic, Darkseid is the greatest villain since he has all of that and being able to go one on one with Superman.

Sums up my opinions of Slade/Deathstroke. What makes a cool villain for a kid is all in their presentation, while what makes a villain cool for an adult is their motivation.

edited 27th Aug '15 8:04:50 AM by BigK1337

Maybe? There's no definite logic to define on what makes a great villain nor was I saying that only those traits makes a great villain. I was just explaining why people like Slade.

Not everything needs to be complicated, ya know?

edited 27th Aug '15 8:24:28 AM by AnimatedDreamer

I know you're just explaining why people like Slade, nothing wrong with that. As mentioned in my previous post I state how there is a difference in standards as to what a child vs. an adult would considered a great villain. A kid would enjoy Slade because of all the Evil Is Cool tropes that associate with the character. An adult would enjoy Deathstroke more due to his reason for villainy having ties to a combination of his damage mindset and sense of honor. Those are both valid reason to like the character, but a combination of both attributes is definite keys to creating a truly great villain (which is where Slade lacks the one attribute that will truly make great, where Deathstroke has both).

So I guess people don't care much for Darkseid?

Actually, I just don't see much in Slade. It's not about me being an adult now, or Deathstroke having motivations that are more grounded.

As a Diabolical Master Mind, his ultimate goal amounted to getting an apprentice. Twice. Pretty underwhelming. Everything he does in the first 2 seasons is about testing a new candidate for that title, which limits his actions and villainy as a Big Bad. He was far better used as The Dragon to Trigon, because his best attributes were better suited for that role. To a lesser extent, one can say the same for Slade being a Driving Question for Robin and The Corrupter to Terra.

edited 27th Aug '15 9:33:00 AM by VeryMelon

I thought he simply wanted to take over Jump City.

He wanted more than Jump City, that's just where he was planning on starting. The series only mentioned that like once or maybe twice, though.

edited 27th Aug '15 9:47:21 AM by LSBK

Nah, they actually are pretty clear as to what motivation Darkseid has with wanting to take over Earth in the Superman cartoon. You know, being the God of Evil who believes free will is anarchy incarnate. Waging a untold year war with the rival planet New Genesis to a standstill. Forming an uneasy treaty which dictates both sides can't attack each other or else its another war. Learning about the human race on Earth and figuring that their minds are the key to figuring out the Anti Life Equation (which eliminates all freewill). Said Equation can be weaponized on his hated foes on New Genesis which will allow him to win (and lucky for him, isn't as of yet a part of New Genesis). Honestly, his goals and pressence makes him a great villain and thus a suitable Big Bad.

Meanwhile, all Slade does is find an apprentice . . . for what? Just to find one for his not really clear evil organization. And he wants Jump City . . . for some reason . . . not really clear. He would of worked as a great villain, as Very Melon points out, if he was the dragon. But instead he is the big bad with who is just there to destroy the team and take over the city with no reason whatsoever. Is he cool, definitely. Does it qualify him for being a great villain, not if its the role of Major Big Bad of the series

Also, I never said people don't care about Slade. All I said was that in the cartoon he doesn't really qualify as much of a great villain as people insist he is base on being a badass alone.

edited 27th Aug '15 10:57:10 AM by BigK1337

Again, what makes a great villain is very much a YMMV subject. But as far as I am concerned, a villain doesn't always need to have complex motivations as long as he or she works. It definitely helps, but that's not the sole factor. Heck, there are villain with complex motivations who failed to work anyway because they were underwhelming anyway. In fact, I think most people agree that Deathstroke in the Son of the Bat animated movie, despite having actual motivations and origin, was far less good than Slade.

edited 27th Aug '15 11:49:52 AM by Theokal3

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with having a Generic Doomsday Villain it all depend on the execution.

edited 27th Aug '15 11:53:17 AM by AnimatedDreamer

I don't think Slade's a Generic Doomsday Villain. I just think he was poorly characterized for a Big Bad. He has an actual character and motivation, but his plan wasn't grand enough to justify making him the main villain of the show for 2 seasons.

I like the idea that Slade's desire for an apprentence is based in wanting a replacement for the kids he lost. But since the series never delved into his past or his exact motivations, that's a bit of character depth that'll remain restricted to fanfics.

Slade probably would've been better served as an episodic villain with many recurring appearances or an arc villain for a single season (or both, a la Daolon Wong) rather than the Big Bad, yeah. For all that he's supposedly a mastermind, as noted his plans never really went anywhere, and he lacked the substance to really work in the Big Bad slot that the show kept trying to push on him.

I can buy Slade as a Generic Doomsday Villain, at least per the basic description of the trope, especially during the first two seasons. He grows out of it during the Trigon arc, but that's ironically when he was bumped out of the main villain slot. His last appearance was probably one of his best, but that episode wasn't really about him either.

As for getting an apprentice, I never really bought that as Slade's big goal. He mostly just reacts to situations to nab characters to use as weapons, but we never find out what his supposed big plans for those apprentices are (unless you count attacking the city with a pair of giant monsters that one time).

edited 27th Aug '15 12:55:35 PM by KnownUnknown

I feel Slade makes a fit for Big Bad for the sole fact that he causes a great amount of conflict for the Team both internal and external.

That's I believe was his main purpose as a character. I don't believe we we're suppose to care about whatever he was up to just how the team reacts to him.

He served that role incredibly well.

edited 27th Aug '15 1:02:10 PM by AnimatedDreamer

While that was Slade's best feature, the issue there is that what Slade is actually doing lacks importance, as well as who Slade actually is. He himself doesn't carry plots, the characters do while thinking about him.

The best example of this is how in what I think is his best episode ("Haunted"), the big reveal is that he isn't actually in the episode and that Robin's brain was responsible for everything.

But that itself isn't an issue on its own. That works fine for villains all the time. The problem is the show repeatedly tried to push Slade into a role where he is supposed to carry plots, even though he isn't actually doing it, so he fails to deliver as a character.

That's why being Trigon's minion worked out so well for him - his role was solely to push the characters, gloat to them, intimidate them and make them react, and since that's what he excelled at it it made for much better appearances than the ones where he was Big Bad.

edited 27th Aug '15 1:58:46 PM by KnownUnknown

I honestly never got the feel that he was suppose to push or carry the show's plot at all.