Disney's Live-Action Thread

Doesn't the Chinese government ban films with witchcraft in them? There's Harry Potter but I think they were making an exception.

Hmmm. Looks like one certain screenwriter didn't like Shan Yu!

Well, the Chinese government doesn't like fun in general.

Shan Yu's a boring villain anyway.

He really is. He's basically a imposing brick wall for Mulan to show to the world that she's capable of bringing down, and doesn't have much in the way of personality.

As long as we still have Mulan taking down an invading army by using nature to her advantage, I'm ultimately good. I still think making the story explicitly a supernatural one is weird (the appeal of specifically making a live action Mulan is in the realism, arguably) but I'll get over it.

edited 12th Apr '18 6:57:26 PM by KnownUnknown

I like Shan Yu, but I also accept there would be problems in casting him, ranging from his monstrous appearance, which I don't think is especially problematic in original film (he's a representative of an extinct ethnic group; there's no Huns around to be offended) but could easily become so in a live adaptation, to the question of who exactly you'd cast as him anyway—you need a seven foot tall member of an extinct ethnicity; not precisely an easy casting call to fulfill.

So with that in mind I've got no real issue with their changing the villain.

I recall there was a discussion not that long ago about "is it racist to depict a fantasy Cannibal Tribe if they're also Lizard Folk who aren't any human ethnic group?" The answer I put forward was: "in that fantasy example, technically no, but it does bolster the image of the trope as a legitimate storytelling device rather than the fear-mongering propaganda tool it's actually been used as." So in relation to the Huns, it's technically true that there being no more Huns differentiates this from most usual examples of racial stereotyping in film. But this can still carry over the idea that it's okay to do this with other living races in general.

It reminds me of how in the Lord of the Rings films, the orcs (most of whom were played by Polynesian actors) were shot by Peter Jackson as savage and menacing, the license being because they're fantasy orcs so there's 'no harm done'. But then come Jackson's King Kong, the encounter with human islanders (also played by and drawing on stereotypes of Polynesians) are shot in the same menacing and savage manner as the orcs. So sometimes the "it's okay if there's nobody around to be offended" spills into populated groups anyway. Folks can't resist another taste.

edited 12th Apr '18 7:16:01 PM by Tuckerscreator

Also good luck bringing the ancestor characters back into the movie because the Chinese bans any movie that has ghosts in them.

Except Coco. Who knows if they'll make another exception here.

Again, that's an exception. ... I guess Mulan will just have to be reaaaally touching and tearjerking.

My attitude is that I'm okay with employing the trope, as long as they aren't evoking an actual group of people, though even there I have my limits. I don't mind the Huns in the original film for instance because 1) the Huns are an extinct group and 2) they're being opposed by far more realistically drawn Asian characters. By itself neither of those might be enough for me to overlook potential issues with Shan Yu, but taken together they ensure he and his men don't bother me overly much.

This would obviously be a much different thing in a live film. Once you have to hire real people to play the Huns you aren't just stereotyping an extinct group, you're potentially stereotyping the actors who play them. So yeah, replacing them with something else is probably a good idea.

Is is bad I find Shan Yu alluring because of his voice? I mean it was provided by the late Miguel Ferrer.

Tastes are tastes

A possible solution would seem to be simply not calling Shen Yu and his merry band of outlaws Huns. Just call him a warlord, without being specific, then cast whoever the heck you want to play him and his band. You could make them all Asian, or alternately you could make them Caucasian and say they're Siberian or some such. It doesn't have to be a thing. Or hell, if they're going more explicitly supernatural, you could make them all goblins or ogres (or whatever the Chinese folkloric equivalent is).

I don't really have any stake in the film but I find incredibly odd Disney's trying to turn a legend into a fairy tale.

Indigenous Siberians are not Caucasian. They're Asian, and include Turkic and Mongolian peoples, as well as those whom most Westerners would assume are Native American.

All right, far-ranging east Russian raiders, then. My point is, you don't really have to be specific about their ethnic identity, if there's a fear it could be problematic. I don't see how it would appear unusual for an Asian band of outlaws to be attacking imperial China. Happens in Chinese movies all the time.

Nobody has a problem with Asian antagonists in a movie with Asian protagonists. The issue is rather how the Huns in the animated film were stylized as Always Chaotic Evil, not simply the concept of them being enemies.

Wouldn't the answer be to not go that route, then? There's lots of other ways you can depict the Huns in the remake without having to do them the way the original film depicted them. Not jettison them and go into fantasy territory, God knows.

edited 15th Apr '18 12:55:16 PM by Aldo930

Also, having the villains be a vaguely defined blob of ethnic baddies with no actual name would likely only serve to make it more offensive.

That's true. I am not entirely aboard yet with this seemingly new route of a magical villain, but we know too little about it currently to respond.

edited 15th Apr '18 1:24:33 PM by Tuckerscreator

Possibly another route would be to have a short scene in the imperial palace with something like "The ambassador from the Huns tells us the criminal Shen Yu and his followers have escaped custody!" or some such.

So, um, it looks like Shang may not be in the Mulan movie

https://www.themarysue.com/disney-removing-shang-keep-it/

Well, cue the thousands of fangirl hearts being crushed.

Ed Skrein from Deadpool will be playing the villain in Maleficent 2.