New DuckTales Animated Series

While the message pushed in that sort of context is a bad message to send, I'll concede that you have points on everything else.

Edited by BrightLight on Sep 22nd 2019 at 5:19:44 AM

Not so much this Ducktales but still relevant since Negaduck:

https://twitter.com/TadStones/status/1170542051579973639

It's interesting that Stone says that if he made the Fearsome Five today they wouldn't have any ties to Negaduck at all but instead Splatter Phoenix would fill his place. Considering how the reboot's Negaduck seems to be modeled on Stones' "remodeling" of the character in design (with his backstory making him more or less Mr. Hyde), I wonder if that's a sign this Negaduck won't have a Fearsome Five.

That... does make sense. Splatter Phoenix was a later creation in the series, but kind of floundered because she didn't have a lot to bounce off of. This isn't the first I've heard of the crew really liking her as a character despite this.

Meanwhile, Negaduck had the bad habit of turning the rest of the Five into a bunch of lackeys despite them being very vibrant characters individually. The Quackerjack + Megavolt episodes tended to be better for dynamics and such.

IIRC - though this isn't specifically Tad - even though she was killed off in the original show, the comics made sure to bring her back and even gave her a backstory.

That said, while this is interesting, Tad doesn't really have much to do with this show so he's probably not hinting at anything that's going to happen in this series.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 21st 2019 at 11:19:33 AM

I'm sure the problem you speak of roots in how Negaduck was written as Drake's archenemy in every one of his episodes, but at the same time you could at least grant Megavolt the same title (from both his sheer amount of episodes and his possible past as Drake's schoolmate). He didn't interact with other villains outside of the Fearsome Five either.

I meant that the writers might pick to keeps their Negaduck as a standalone villain to avoid the problem you noticed.

The problem is more that Negaduck is such a grand, bombastic personality that he overpowers the others and generally forces them into more minor roles.

I hadn't thought about it before the twitter post pointed it out, but Negaduck never had any chemistry whatsoever with the other members of the Five. It was always his show, plus his flunkies: they barely even held conversations with one another, let alone on a one to one level. The only one I can think of at all is his and Quackerjack's personal falling out from the comics.

The idea of swapping him out with Splatter is about putting in a character that would have that chemistry and be able to interact well with the others.

I agree with Doofus not being bad enough to warrant becoming a villain, and he did indeed work better when paired with Launchpad (Launchpad treated him like somewhat of a surrogate son, while Doofus looked up to him as a hero, which in turn inspired LP to act more heroically).

It is a bit similar to Scrappy Doo, really. No one liked Scrappy, but he wasn't a villain. He wasn't evil or mean spirited. And yet, in that live action movie, he suddenly is the big bad villain, which does not fit his character at all. It seems like some creators think the best way to deal with a disliked character is to just turn him into a villain outright.

I don't know where you get that Scrooge is an Invincible Hero in all his appearances. He is certainly not invincible in Barks' stories. Yes, Rosa does turn him into an Implacable Duck in his backstory, but he wisely keeps that to the backstory. In the present day stories, Scrooge is clearly past his prime, though by no means defenseless. Generally, when the Beagle Boys can get past his defenses, Scrooge is easily overpowered, and it is up to Donald and the boys to rescue him.

I think what's going on is that this show is playing up the Plot Armor that most protagonists have as being an actual in-universe character trait. Normally, when reading a comic or watching a cartoon, you don't really assume the character is invincible and immortal, though of course they will never be beaten or killed. I think this is a bad idea, too, because it turns Scrooge into a Boring Invincible Hero who is never in any real danger. It ruins the dramatic tension of any adventure he is in.

I never wanted the series to be 100% serious either, but I do think the writers have a tendency to opt for easy plot resolutions to drama where they could easily have gone a bit deeper into it without turning too dark. Donald never having a heart to heart with his nephews about Della, for instance, is a real missed opportunity, and could have contributed greatly to the Della arc. The other kids being angry at Dewey and Webby for hiding their search for Della similarly could have been used to explore their relationships, and ultimately strengthen their bonds of family. Instead, the writers just waltz right over it by playing the Easily Forgiven trope. When it comes down to a dramatic denouement, the show tends to back away from confrontations and have an easy emotional out, and it can be frustrating because they DO build up to such moments, but there is never that moment of catharsis of people working it out.

And yes, you can definitely go too far with drama. Webby dying would definitely be a bridge too far. I thought it was already quite impressive they went with that dream sequence.

And yeah, Black Heron was hardly 100% serious.

Also, I don't want a Huey season. I want a Huey, Dewey and Louie season. Is that too much to ask?

I like Webby, but I think her zany Genki Girl schtick has played out a bit. I think the writers feel this too, because they don't use her nearly as much lately, similar to Launchpad. The show needs to push her in a new direction, which the last Lena episode did a good job of providing a foundation for. Though I am a little worried that giving Webby a girl posse will be used to isolate her away from the rest of the cast.

Maybe Webby doesn't quite fit Creator's Pet, but I think the writers have definitely favoured her throughout the first season over other characters, especially the nephews. She may not fit, but she could have easily turned into one.

I've never even heard of Splatter Phoenix. She appeared late in the show, it seems, in that third batch of episodes that was never put on DVD. (Edit: I may have seen that episode very long ago. That was the painting hopping episode, right?)

And yeah, Negaduck overshadowing the Fearsome Four was a bit of a problem. Without Neggy, Megavolt would probably be DW's main villain. And yes, Quackerjack/Megavolt episodes tended to be great fun, they worked really well together.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 22nd 2019 at 12:17:40 PM

I never ever even hated at all Scrappy-Doo. But I wish that just stop taking (unfunny as of late) potshots at him and stop giving him Adaptational Villainy. Just reinvent him in a way that everyone can be happy and that it would be an interesting and well-crafted take, not leave him like a relic of his time that deserves to be profaned at and ultimately forgotten because he's the worst character ever.

I get it. Matt Youngberg and Francisco "Frank" Angones never liked original Doofus Drake, and so they made him a villain. But the question is: was it worth it? Will it be an enjoyable take? Time will tell... at least on my part...

I get it. DuckTales (2017) is too cynical (sometimes), is dark (in general, compared to thd previous series), is serious (again, compared to the original), is more for the original's fans (after all, it has much shout-outs, references et al.), it has flaws (after all, no show is perfect) etc. etc. etc. But I just want to see what adventures will we see with not just the McDucks, their friends and their enemies, but also to see other faces, familiar or not, and also how the worldbuilding unfolds. Look, I just want a show that is enjoyable and well-crafted in as many parts as possible for, not just me, but also for everyone: children, teens, adults. Or I am wrong.

It's better (for me, at least. Or I am wrong) that I waited for the show to finish airing more episodes. After all, I can devour, er, I mean, binge-watch them better.

Or I am wrong in this post and that I deserve to be corrected.

Edited by Andrei_Bondoc on Sep 22nd 2019 at 1:43:01 PM

"Stop giving him adaptational" villainy implies they've done it more than once...

They haven't, they just don't wanna use the character.

I think the original series still has plenty going for it. I like how it is lighthearted, and doesn't spend so much time navel gazing and comparing itself to other shows all the time. I also still prefer the OG triplets, to be honest. They just worked so well as a trio, they were a lot of fun to watch.

And for all the talk of family, I think OG Ducktales still did a better job of showing the cast being a family. The original series never felt it needed to bang the family values drum.

It was a more self-confident show in that regard. The reboot, especially season one, was really self-conscious about being a reboot, about living in the original's shadow, as well as in the shadow of 90s cartoons in general. This is, I suspect, why we get so many references to nineties shows in the reboot.

I think that is also a bit of uncertainty from the writers, trying to recapture something that made these 90s shows work so well that they perhaps feel this show cannot quite manage to do.

As for Scrappy-Doo, I didn't outright hate him, per se, but he was rather one note and annoying, and he never really did anything to advance the plot. Scrappy, more often than not, was an obstacle to the heroes, not an aid. I think that is a large part of why he didn't work as a character.

That would be ideal.

I just don't think the writers are up for it. They've already done a Dewey season and a Louie season.

Plus, even if Season 3 is not a Huey season, more likely it's gonna be a Disney Afternoon season.

Fair enough. I was impressed by that episode the first time round, even though the triplets' B-plot sort of ruined it.

It's just that in hindsight, with how the Season 1 finale played out, I wish that something more emotionally investing could've happened instead, rather than what we got.

I totally agree with and fully support the rest of your points, though.

Edited by BrightLight on Sep 22nd 2019 at 11:28:22 PM

Yeah, for some reason, the writers seem to struggle writing the triplets as a trio of brothers, instead preferring to just have one, or else split them up. Having Webby tag along all the time does not help with this.

This is a great advantage of writing them as nearly identical triplets, I think. It allows the writers to treat them as a unit when the episode gets too busy, but also allows them to act independently when the plot needs them to. And they DO have some individuality in the comics and OG Ducktales. There was even an episode about Dewey having middle child syndrome. The comics give them a bit of individual traits too, though it's a lot more subtle than is done on this show.

This show seems to forget at times that these kids are brothers at all, and treats them more like a group of friends rather than family.

It really doesn't do that...

Does it mean they should be...closer?

Well, they don't really do much together, or interact all that much, especially Huey. That's a consequence of splitting them up and focussing on one of them at a time.

On the other hand, if you write them together all the time, you risk them being treated as one character ala the comics or OG Ducktales. Or worse yet, a plot device. Which IMO is what the original Triplets were.

What do you mean with them being a plot device?

At least in the comics they came across as bland Mary Sue's who only existed to solve whatever problems came their way, always busting out the Junior Woodchucks Guidebook or whatever other bits of knowledge they were privy to and saving the day. There wasn't much else to them. And the OG show wasn't that much of a departure.

They've been like that for half a century, though, and most comic fans seem to be fine with it.

Doesn't change what they are. Nor does it mean everyone's fine with it. The creators of this show certainly weren't.

Them being so seperated usually works, aside from the only child episode which didn't make sense for our HDL.

As for the Negaduck discussion, yeah, he kinda did overshadow the five so immensely that none of them had any real time to shine, and also made them all seem way more incompetent. Jail Bird is the best example of that, if we're being honest, with them all being taken out by a net in 3 seconds.

Honestly I don't care Doofus is a villaiin, as long as it's not a trend and they don't make all versions of him a villain, it's fine. I don't even think he's important enough to complain about. Unlike Scrappy who is a major scooby character that the movie handled in the worse way on top of making him a villain, which used potty humor on top of it.

And while I don't care for him, I am amused by how he makes his own parents act creepy when talking about Gumemima. Helps they're voiced by an actual couple.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 22nd 2019 at 11:51:12 AM

It's interesting people complain about Doofus given the villian treatment, but never point out how Djinn from the original show got the badass and heroic treatment.

What do you mean? Djinn was never a villain, nor did he become one in the reboot.

If you mean how he was changed, well, it helps that he got a great episode attached to him, which puts a nice twist on the standard genie story. Doofus, in contrast, is basically a gimmick, a joke about how people disliked him so much, so lets just make him intensely dislikeable. They didn't really do anything interesting with him, as opposed to Djinn.

Djinn is based on a character named Dijon, who was a cowardly thief serving the evil wizard Merlock. On top of that, he was a quite offensive caricature of Middle Eastern people.

Oops, sorry, confused him with the genie for a second. Annd that pretty much shows the problem with Djinn. He is basically an entirely different character.