Misused (alt titles crowner 14 April 2019): Ghost Lights

• 1 for making Ghost Lights the supertrope.

That works.

Ghost Light is indeed quite generic as a name, it would work as a supertrope.

I'm surprised there is actually a push toward the Japanese name for the current trope, but I approve.

edited 1st Oct '14 4:36:53 AM by StFan

Well, it's a primarily Japanese trope, there's no English name for it, and any proposed English name will almost assuredly see the exact same kind of misuse Ghost Lights does.

Seems like we've agreement for a split now. Anyone up for descriptions of each trope? (Other than Will-o'-the-Wisp which is in YKTTW).

Clock is set.

I am going to agree with the split I have never seen one in a western work outside of one that is Animesque and this is so standard for ghosts in Japan it isnt funny. [1]◊[2]◊[3]◊[4]◊ [5]◊

However there does seem to be a bit of misuse of this around of the glow that appears around people to indicate possession and possibly around ghosts's body themselves but that is not this.

And Hitodama means literally "human soul" and it fokelore they are balls of fire that mainly float in the middle of night and are believed to be the "souls of the dead that have separated from their bodies". That is a little bit more general than the trope itself but it should still work with 'lights' in the name. Just have to be careful that cloud based spirits IE Dragon Ball do not get into the trope, as they are literally called Hitodama aka Human Souls, unless they use the lights too. Dragon Ball for instance does use them◊ but Dragon Ball Z does not.

I am not really good a description writing, or english in general, but that might help someone else.

Mind if I open an image picking for the Hitodama Lights? They are really a dime a dozen and the current one is probably the worst I have seen.

edited 1st Nov '14 7:42:30 AM by Memers

Hitodama Lights really is the best name for this since any purely English name is going to keep getting confused for a Western trope. I have seen it in Western media, but only Western media that was borrowing heavily from Japan.

Bump

So, what do people say to making Ghost Lights a super trope for all sorts of ghostly lights with Hitodama Lights as a subtrope?

It would probably be better named Will-o'-the-Wisp.

I agree with Shima's suggestion. Will-o'-the-Wisp should be a subtrope.

Hitodama Lights and Will-o'-the-Wisp are not the same thing.

I was talking about the super trope being named Will-o'-the-Wisp.

I think there are ghost lights out there that aren't Will-o-the-Wisps, but that's running up to the limits of my folklore knowledge.

There are many types of ghost lights out there that aren't Will O The Wisps. Will O The Wisps are a very specific bit of mythology that isn't even always ghosts. It's often faeries, or aliens.

How about Supernatural Light Ball?

I am aware of that, memers. But a "will o' the wisp" is a specific type of supernatural light. Using that name for the broader supertrope is asking for another mess down the line when it starts being misused.

Then it would fail as a supertrope because they aren't always balls. In both cases they also take the shape of flames, or lanterns, or sometimes tiny glowing people.

Ghost Lights is a way better super trope name. Naming the trope "will o' the wisp" would be like calling it "hitodama lights", only in English.

^ 'cept that it isn't always ghosts... is it?

I don't see any issue with using a Japanese name for it, as long as "lights" is included in the name somewhere.

'Ghost Lights' is a term that can be applied to non-ghosts as well, so using it as a super trope name makes sense. Something like a Corpse Candle (for example) is much more specific, being the spirits of the dead who have come to light the route (a Corpse Road, which isn't the same thing as a ley line) that their soon-to-die family member will take to their burial place - always a straight line, because the spirits of the dead can only move in straight lines.

Corpse Candles are also not the same thing as a Will o' the Wisp, which isn't usually viewed as a deceased spirit and which is not limited to travelling in straight lines (it's usually a mischievous spirit/fairy that is either leading people astray or saving their lives). 'Ghost Lights' works for me as an overarching trope that could cover both examples, and more. That said, I suppose what we're really talking about are 'Supernatural Lights'; it's just not as catchy as 'Ghost Lights'.

Perhaps 'Ghostly Lights' might be better, considering that's more descriptive than 'ghost' which sounds like a more specific declaration?

edited 29th Nov '14 6:18:14 PM by Wyldchyld

what about Supernatural Lights?

Using Ghostly or Supernatural seems a better route to take.