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Huh. Just a few days ago, the folks in the Victoria Park Public Forum were talking about not relying too heavily on Germany, as apparently by then Germany had begun denying Hong Kong activists asylum.
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
You know, I entered this thread to say exactly that.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Outside of the usual "hostile outside forces" comments, they haven't really cared.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Ah, just like Gwangju Uprising of South Korea, where the government tried to paint the democratic protest as a work of communist agents.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Oh, that would be Cheon Do Hwan, actually. The uprising took place in 1980 and Rhee died at 1965.
Now, Rhee's biggest psychotic rampage took place during Korean War, in the form of Bodo League Massacre, in which 200,000 to 1,200,000 million people were killed. Considering the sheer population of South Korea back then, it was a LOT.
Okay, that's enough of off-topic there.
Back to the topic, I'm at least somewhat relieved that there is no death in this protest just yet.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
No problem, I like studying South Korea's early history. I just got my authoritarians mixed up there - I mistook Gwangju for the Yeosu-Suncheon rebellion, which was a left-wing uprising branded a communist revolt.
Hong Kongers have been protesting since the day they were born, and it's the city's main form of expression, honestly.
It should be noted that the anger of the youth is because they were handed a crap hand for fifteen years - they have to work for decades to buy their own house now, there's no way in the room of relieving employee stress, the local school exam system is utterly hellish and they're scared for their futures.
Add onto stagnation in terms of actually solving these issues, plus unemployment, and you have yourselves many dissatisfied youth, particularly angry young men who used to work in construction before getting laid off, and you have yourselves people who can build barricades, tear up bricks from the pavement to use as projectiles and charge through tear gas.
Edited by TheWildWestPyro on Jun 13th 2019 at 6:18:46 AM
How ironic that this is the kind of living conditions that contributed to the rise of communist parties in the first place.
Oh, bother.
I doubt the irony is lost on the CCP.
The CCP being self-serving assholes, they're responding by trying to stamp the problem out before it gets anywhere.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Full-Circle Revolution is a bitch.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Hell, the whole situation is analogous to the Qing trying to stomp out Sun Yat-sen.
You've got an absolutist government suppressing pro-democracy activists that are forced to flee abroad, then return to their home to spark a big uprising when the people have had enough.
I seriously doubt that a protest in a port city will be enough to single-handedly topple the sheer might of the political machine that the CPC have built over decades. But it'll certainly be a small stick in their craw.
Edited by TheWildWestPyro on Jun 13th 2019 at 7:33:00 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Statement made by the HKPF yesterday:
At around 8am yesterday, a large group of masked protesters dashed to Lung Wo Road and Harcourt Road in an organised way. They caused obstruction and disrupted public order by occupying the roads. Police had all along exercised restraint and tolerance in face of the intimidating and inciting acts by the protestors.
Till noon, Police found metal poles and planks in construction site stolen and bricks at nearby pavements pried up. At around 3pm, a large group of protestors used violence to charge police cordon line at different locations in a planned manner. During which, protestors performed life-threatening acts by hurling bricks, metal poles, planks and mills barriers at police officers who then used force with a view to protect personal safety, disperse the crowd, control the situation as well as maintain the effective operation of the Legislative Council and the safety of its staff.
The anti-riot measures Police used, including batons, pepper sprays, tear sprays, hand-throwing tear gas rounds, pepper balls, bean bag rounds and rubber bullets, are all non-lethal weapons. While overseas countries used similar equipment to deal with riots, Police had established stringent guidelines on the use of force.
The violent behavior of protestors yesterday imposed serious impact on public order. Some members of the public were trapped in the tunnel of Lung Wo Road. Upon the deployment of police negotiators, it still took eight hours to rescue the trapped persons. There were also vehicles deliberately blocking the roads in the vicinity of Admiralty and Central, paralyzing the traffic nearby.
Up till now, Police has arrested 11 persons for disorderly conduct in public place, unlawful assembly, assaulting police officers and other riot-related offences.
A total of 22 police officers sustained injuries in dealing with the riot yesterday.
Police will conduct a full review on yesterday’s operation as in the past.
Police strongly condemned the violent acts of the protestors and appealed to the public to express their views and opinions in a peaceful manner.
I will be honest - the HKPF are fairly favorable compared to others around the world. They've always managed to be have restraint, and that the regular cops had it handled shows they aren't gonna deploy the SDU.
On the one hand, the police are feared for putting down riots hard. On the other hand, they have proved themselves professional in other areas, efficient in shutting down crime and the public leans on them for order and traffic safety. The rampant corruption of the colonial era is long-gone thanks to the creation of the ICAC.
The violence is what happens when armed stressed-out young men in riot gear lose it in the face of extremely overwhelming situations. Keep in mind that many of the police recruits are the same age as the protesters, and the HKPF enjoys decent recruitment rates.
I've seen it mentioned on social media that the police are subduing unarmed protesters with force. They seem legit.
Which is why I said, outside of putting down riots, they're well-respected otherwise. It's an extremely double-edged sword for Hong Kong, because the police are both popular and feared.
But yeah, those are legit, and I'm not surprised. This has been happening for quite a while: Occupy Central, then the Mong Kok riots, then the brief flashes of protests through the following years, and now this one.
Edited by TheWildWestPyro on Jun 13th 2019 at 10:04:25 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the police have the view that they should nip this in the bud so the Chinese government doesn't start murdering people.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
They're Hongkongers too, and as I mentioned before, a lot of the cops who are putting down the protests are police academy graduates the exact same age as them, and the HKPF does enjoy high youth recruitments.
The most looming fear is the PLA Garrison being ordered in, but I doubt that'll happen - they haven't deployed the SDU yet, or any other counter-terrorist units.
Actually, something I wanna talk about:
In 1967 there was a China-backed riot against the British
. The rioters planted bombs and this killed a few children who thought they were gifts, plus they burned an anti-rioter radio presenter alive in his car. Unsurprisingly, this cost them their popularity. The riot failed and people actually rallied around the police, despite many cops being British and essentially colonial enforcers, plus the ongoing police corruption problem as a consequence of the despotic nature of colonialism.
Many years on, and the idiots who were formerly terrorists have the nerve to tell the Occupy Central protesters that they should behave and obey Beijing. Yeah, sure, you're one to talk - you morons killed people, the students haven't.
Edited by TheWildWestPyro on Jun 13th 2019 at 10:22:00 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
SCMP ran a piece now in response to whether PTU used too much force or it was justified.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Yeah, that's the main debate now. Again, this isn't the first time this happened. The poor kid who get his ass beaten by a few dozen cops can testify.
Generally, the police are respected for their work outside of putting down riots, which is where they are feared. Most officers you'll meet in Hong Kong who aren't doing riot-breaking are polite and professional. The ones who are, though, run.
It's strange to the Westerners, I know, but this is Asia, and things are rarely so clear-cut.
I remember one ordinary beat cop being very apologetic as he gave my mom her first parking ticket in decades. Long story, involves her picking me up from tutoring too fast.
Edited by TheWildWestPyro on Jun 13th 2019 at 10:27:21 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Heh. Reminds me of that time when me and my 2nd older bro were being profiled by a team of PTU officers (one of them was in civvies and looked like a uni student) and spoke in Mandarin when they taught we're from China (or maybe Taiwan).
They were kinda polite when we showed proof that we're not Chinese.
Although my dad got mad and said why didn't we shout for their attention that the police were talking to us. Lol. 
This kinda reminds me of what happened in Macau from the 12-3 incident.
Damn you, I can see the streets that are in LegCo. Near the freaking Marriott!!
Edited by Ominae on Jun 13th 2019 at 10:58:05 AM
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
God darn, so Macau does have issues too. And to think I thought they were enjoying their profits as Asian Vegas.
The police have to deal with a lot of mainlanders using underhanded methods to try and wriggle out of a fine or going to the station. Understandably they treat anyone looking like mainlanders with a degree of suspicion, usually by asking to check your ID.
Memorably, one die-hard CPC supporter tried to get out of a parking ticket by claiming he was a "good communist", but he was ticketed anyway.
Edited by TheWildWestPyro on Jun 13th 2019 at 11:14:47 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Macau is kinda small since their pro-democratic factions are weak and not a lot.
Family takes issue with them being there if they try to make a mess of themselves.
Though I had a chuckle when I spoke English with a mix of Canadian/Filipino accent in it that they stopped hassling and asked which hotel I stayed in and I handed my driver’s license. They had a slight Oh, Crap! look and they stopped speaking Mandarin (I understood some of it since I went to a Catholic school in Manila that had that curriculum).
Edited by Ominae on Jun 13th 2019 at 11:50:25 AM
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
According to some Hong Kongers in the tweetosphere, there's rift in the police force right now on what to do. Nobody actually wants a protest that lasts for long like the Umbrella Movement (police or protestor), so some of the more senior ones have learned they need to use more tear gas and funnel the protestors into indefensible ground. Compare this to others who'd rather leave the situation be.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
My grandfather was one of the police who died during the 1967 riots. It's weird to feel sympathetic for both the cops and students with this current situation.
Slightly old news, but some of the protestors arrested in Mongkok in 2016 sought asylum in Germany. And Carrie's not happy.
Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor called for a meeting on Friday with acting consul general David Schmidt to express her strong objection and deep regret over Germany’s decision to offer protection to pro-independence activists Ray Wong Toi-yeung, 25, and Alan Li Tung-sing, 27, who skipped bail in 2017 to avoid facing criminal charges relating to the Mong Kok riot of 2016.
According to a statement by the Chief Executive’s Office, Lam questioned whether the German authorities’ decision had been based on facts, as anyone accused of breaching the law in Hong Kong would face an open and fair trial under an independent judicial system.
“She expressed deep regret and strong objection to the reported granting of asylum to the two bail jumpers by Germany, which had unjustifiably undermined Hong Kong’s international reputation in the rule of law and judicial independence,” the statement said.
Lam had been under pressure from her own political allies to set the record straight and contain the damage to the city’s reputation after several international media outlets reported on Wednesday that the two fugitives had sought asylum in Germany in 2017, and that authorities there had granted their request last May.
The outlets quoted Wong as saying he would focus on Hong Kong’s human rights , rather than continuing to advocate the city’s separation from China.
The statement cited Lam as stressing that Hong Kong’s rule of law, law enforcement agencies and judicial independence had long been held in high regard by both local and international communities.
“She said the two men are facing serious charges including riot and assaulting police in relation to the Mong Kok riot in February 2016. The riot involved the hurling of bricks and wooden pallets, burning cars, attacking police, surrounding police vehicles, wounding others and destroying public property,” the statement read.
Lam pointed out to the German diplomat that the violent actions of the rioters had resulted in injuries to more than 80 police officers and unsettled many people in Hong Kong.
“Given Germany’s long-standing diplomatic presence in Hong Kong, such facts, which were on the public record and easily available, should have been duly taken into account,” the statement read.
“She said she was dismayed that apparently such a basic assessment of facts had not been made.”
Lam asked Schmidt to convey her deep regrets and strong objections to his bosses in Berlin.
On Hong Kong’s judicial system, the chief executive noted that the city’s independent judicial power, including that of final adjudication, was guaranteed under its mini-constitution, the Basic Law.
“She said that 14 eminent overseas judges from the United Kingdom, Australia and Canada currently sit on our Court of Final Appeal as non-permanent judges, which in itself is a testimony to the integrity of Hong Kong’s rule of law and independent judiciary,” the statement said.
The chief executive went on to argue that the city’s judicial system was well respected, with the World Economic Forum’s Global Competitiveness Report ranking Hong Kong first in Asia for judicial independence.
The German consulate did not respond to the Post when asked for comment.
Earlier this week, Beijing’s foreign ministry insisted Hong Kong upheld the rule of law, which sufficiently guaranteed citizens’ rights.
Without referring directly to the two fugitives’ case, Germany’s foreign ministry earlier voiced concern over the situation in Hong Kong, despite considering human rights in the city to be “good as a whole”.
According to German policy, the Berlin government would have to consider whether the two fugitives faced persecution at home based on their political opinion or a disproportionate or discriminatory judicial proceeding when granting them asylum and subsequently a settlement permit equivalent to citizenship.