Basically, there's a difference between consistency and simply not explaining a particular point of lore.

It's not inconsistent for us to never hear the origin story of why Applejack has a dog.

It's inconsistent if AJ shows up in an episode with a pet turtle instead.

If the episode then goes on to talk about how Fluttershy helped Applejack pick out her turtle and she set up a race to decide her pet but ultimately settled on the turtle, then this is a Continuity Nod to a past episode's events - but also inconsistent, because that was Rainbow Dash.

EDIT: An example of the later show's continuity-positive consistency-negative treatment is the episode "Once Upon a Zeppelin". Twilight responds with great animosity and disdain for Iron Will as soon as she sees him, because he's an old nemesis that the ponies locked horns with once before.

This is positive continuity. Iron Will is a returning villain from a past episode and the show treats him with the same "Get ready to fight this f*cking guy again" approach as it would for Trixie or the Flimflam Brothers.

But it's negative consistency, because Twilight has never met Iron Will in her life. She didn't even appear in that episode at all! She has no prior relationship to motivate her instant antagonist recognition.

With Iron Will, you're meant to go "Oh, it's that guy. I remember that episode!" But not to actually think too deeply about how its events pertain to these ones. Twilight hates Iron Will on sight because "Putting Your Hoof Down" exists and not because of any specific thing that actually happened in it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 18th 2018 at 9:48:11 AM

To be fair, Twilight probably heard about Iron Will from Fluttershy. I think that part actually makes sense.

Anyway, people are giving the old show too much credit. Literally the beginning of the very first episode introduces the idea of ponies moving the sun and moon, but the consequences of this are never addressed. In fact, a later season 1 episode has Twilight give a scientifically accurate description of comets, which seems at odds with the whole fantasy cosmology thing.

Edited by storyyeller on Dec 18th 2018 at 11:56:38 AM

Back to Iron Will, he wasn't even all that antagonistic to begin with. He just helped Flutters get more assertive, but Flutters got way *too* assertive. He himself didn't even do anything wrong. It was only in this episode that he actually did anything outright antagonistic, shanghai-ing Twilight into being the mascot feature for the cruise and stuff and then bailing when he was found out.

I agree, Iron Will basically got a villain upgrade from being an antagonist. He was never Fluttershy's enemy or anything like that.

Yeah, any time a character goes "Gasp... YOU!" to a villain they've never personally met, I just assume the gang all tell each other about the various adventures and creatures they've encountered. Friends gotta talk about SOMETHING after all.

So Twilight being negative towards the person she knows convinced Fluttershy to act like a bitch makes sense to me. Same with how she shits on Flim and Flam despite them being Apple villains. She has no reason to like them either.

Edit: About Iron Will in Zeppelin. I actually found it funny that the episode decided to give him props anyway, even though he was clearly the bad guy. Like, he gets an awesome exit, and Shining gives him credit for being smart. XD

Edited by GNinja on Dec 18th 2018 at 5:42:30 PM

That was the most antagonistic thing he did, where Flutters Rules-Layered her way to getting a full refund, but he still gave it to her and left. It was only later that, as noted, he got upgraded from happenstance antagonist to actual episode Heavy.

This could be seen as a continuity positive/consistancy negative line, but I just remembered that he actually says "I learned my lesson before: Satisfaction NOT guarenteed!" as he fled.

I don't care. God that's funny. XD

I also loved his stylish exit, with the insult-to-injury parachute featuring Iron Will swimming in his ill-gotten gains. That was f*cking hilarious.

"Once Upon a Zeppelin" is a great episode. It just doesn't follow very organically from "Putting Your Hoof Down", is the thing. Bits like this:

I tend to take the other way. What I see is a minor plot hole introduced by the episode's setup that could easily be resolved with a simple throwaway line - for instance, "Fluttershy warned me about him" - that would take two seconds of screentime to add in. It's not a huge plot hole and would be remarkably easy to fill, which makes the absence of any hole-filling material noticeable. To me, the glaring omission says the writer wants to use some of the ideas from the episode, but doesn't really care enough to actually be consistent to it.

The expectation is simply that you recognize Iron Will as an old villain from the early seasons, but don't remember any real details beyond that.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 18th 2018 at 12:15:41 PM

Which is funny, as that last line he had is a direct reference to how he was defeated in season 2. He was beaten by Shy rules lawyering him over being satisfied, so he mentions that he's learned never to promise satisfaction anymore.

Now I'm curious, is he the only villain to have much dignity in defeat? Like, most of the villains who run away do so looking desperate or sneaky. His exit is stylish and awesome. And Shining actually compliments him on it.

Like, Flim and Flam have never had an exit like that.

That's true. Even Discord is usually a grumpy pouterface in defeat.

It's interesting. Despite being much more villainous than his previous antagonistic role, Iron Will steals every scene he's in and kinda wins at the end, making off with his loot and never facing comeuppance. "Once Upon a Zeppelin" is more or less a celebration of how awesome this oneshot character was.

Which might also be why Twilight's lesson is basically a rehash of Fluttershy's lesson from "A Health of Information". The core message of the episode might just be, "Why isn't anyone talking about how cool Iron Will is?!"

It warrants noting that this is the only episode Brittany Jo Flores ever wrote - and, per IMDB, it was her first professional writing job ever - lending credence to the idea that this was basically one writer's love letter to a favorite oneshot character from seasons past.

Which, again, it's a phenomenal episode and for a first pro-writing job ever, she knocked it out of the park.

EDIT: Wait, no, I read her IMDB page wrong. It's like her fourth pro-writing job ever. Still really good for an inexperienced writer.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 18th 2018 at 12:49:33 PM

Post of the Day #2369

Posted by Irish Zombie on Mon, 19th May '14 9:11:16 AM - Post #73142 in the new thread

I would totally be onboard with Twilight becoming Mayor of Ponyville. It would give her government responsibilities to go with her Princesshood.

I won't lie, the thought of Twilight becoming Ponyville's major sounds delightful.

When was the last time the mayor even appeared in an episode?

Bearing in mind, I have episodes 19-26 to watch, so I'm not familiar with them, I can't remember the last time she played even a minor role in an episode. Twilight's basically the mayor by default at this point.

Well she appeared in Slice of Life at least. I can't recall if she has appeared since. She does hardly appear nowadays though.

Edit: According to the Wiki, the last time she appeared was in s7e13, The Perfect Pair. Before that, her last appearance was s6e04, On Your Marks. So two appearances in the last three seasons.

Oh right! She did play a role in "Perfect Pear". Bloom, Jack, and Mac asked around town and she was one of the people they asked about their parents.

What do you consider an appearance? If backgrounds are counted, she last showed up in Best Gift Ever.

One thing I find interesting is that the last few seasons seem to have settled on using Mayor Mare as the go-to figure for officiating weddings.

Well, since the Major seems to be the ONLY goverment official in Ponyville, and there isn't a church, she seems to be the most viable option.

Come to think of it, do ponies even HAVE a religion? Do they NEED one? After all, a lot of the usual stuff ascribed to gods is done by ponies, alicorns, or assorted magical creatures.

Edited by Redmess on Dec 19th 2018 at 1:40:34 PM

friendship is ummm their belief like a religion,yeah

Well, the wedding in Slice of Life WAS held in a Church, but it wasnt a religious ceremony by any means.

I mean, there's a lot more to religious belief than just explaining why the rain falls or where thunder comes from — morality and philosophy tend to be tied pretty tightly into it, without even touching the matter of the afterlife — but I'm not sure how good an idea it would be to head down that rabbit hole.

I think the wedding in "Slice of Life" was held in the town hall, actually.

It was.

Religion and the series would be a fun topic, but I know Hasbro won't touch it. It's always fun to imagine, though. Fictional religions, especially Animal Religions, are so fun.

I like to think that ponies have various religions and various denominations within those religions. Other species are the same way. They don't necessarily need to worship gods, however. Now that I think about it, it'd be interesting if most ponies were atheistic. I know people like to say alicorns are gods or demi-gods, but it makes sense for the idea of gods to become less commonplace in a world of magic like theirs. Maybe ponies predominantly believe in ancestor worship or nature spirits?

They have windigos and they're kind of like malevolent nature spirits.