RWBY General Discussion

Sin's a punishment for people depending on technology too much actually the Church of Yevon lied, it's basically a summon who overwrote its summoner's mind. It's not sentient, so it can't actively plan anything, so it doesn't need a Benevolent Conspiracy working against it to actively undermine it. Sure, it being so destructive is a problem when the total habitable area is so small, but it's not on the world-ending scale. Salem, on the other hand, is sentient and actively plans to use minions to divide humanity so the gods will destroy the world when she summons them, so the Ozluminati needs to exist to try and keep everything together in spite of her influence.

The pilgrimages are an established thing and have been for a long time, yes, but they're also very public (and publicized). In fact, you get to interact with various NP Cs during the game's pilgrimage about the current pilgrimages and how previous pilgrimages have affected them. You obviously can't have that for the Ozluminati, since most people don't even know they exist.

Edit: Hey, it's a pagetopper talking about my favorite game! I'm lucky.

Edited by Altris on Aug 7th 2020 at 4:48:02 AM

I'm not sure if the "Is Sun's VA still in RWBY" was serious or not, but Sun's VA is Michael Jones, key member of Achievement Hunter, and husband to Ruby's VA. He's not likely to move on anytime soon.

That said I can't really see the similarities between Sun and Tidus. Jaune is closer to Tidus than Sun, and neither have the daddy issues required for the part.

Edited by Shaoken on Aug 7th 2020 at 10:13:08 PM

Yeah, I honestly don't think there's a point to drawing those sorts of parallels, because FFX and RWBY are pretty different.

We could, theoretically, discuss the different ways they deconstruct the same tropes or...something, but I don't think that's a fertile topic and I doubt the rest of the thread would be happy with it.

Well, if we're talking about final fantasy and RWBY....

https://aspiringwarriorlibrarian.tumblr.com/post/622357168101998592/for-everyone-just-learning-about-the-connections

Oh, that would be so cool, but I don't think Ironwood would be that willing to sacrifice a part of Atlas for that. More likely he'd just send troops to find them, a la Winter calling for reinforcements after the whole Winter Maiden hullabaloo.

Pretty much.

Also, do you think we will see penny vs cinder? after all we have maiden vs maiden before, maybe another match?.

I hope so. It would probably be like Raven vs Cinder, which was another Maiden vs Maiden match.

But if Cinder meets her end, it would have to be at the hands of Jaune or Ruby.

I'm with the group saying I hope Jaune dosent kill Cinder, it would not fit his arc IMO

Edited by Kylotrope on Aug 7th 2020 at 7:08:33 AM

I'm gonna be honest, most of the Atlas arc was a snoozefest for me, so could you please remind me what Jaune's arc ended up being? Thanks.

Did jaune have an arc at atlas?

I'm just gonna leave this here again, in regards to my feelings on what some people believe Jaune's arc is.

The funny thing is that the only way that the Colony Drop would even happen is if they had Ironwood use the Staff of Creation to lift something other than Atlas up.

Jaunes arc is more or less about subverting Break the Cutie, or a specific version of that trope subverting the idea of him growing out of his Dorky Nice Guy personality and into a stone cold badass.The moments showing him growing slightly colder or more Cynical after the events of Beacon is something he had to overcome, and he stays the Dorky guy he was before.

Him killing Cinder in some Revenge Story wouldn't fit that IMO.

Except killing Cinder isn't limited to a revenge story. Yeah, it can be about avenging Pyrrha, but it can just as easily be doing the right thing, putting down a monster that won't stop hunting the Maidens, pursuing her vendetta on Ruby, and bringing chaos wherever she goes. They may not like to kill, but part of the Secret War requires they kill, since they can't just expect to arrest everyone or for the enemies to be done in by their own hubris. And from a thematic standpoint, it makes sense for Jaune, the doofus that Cinder didn't even remember and ignored until he bruised her ego, to be the one to finally end Cinder, and to rob her of any satisfaction by not losing himself in the process, remaining a dorky good guy, but now strong enough to stop a monster like her from forcing anyone else to suffer what he and his friends have suffered.

Eh, I suppose that's also a decent way to look at it. Once again Agree to disagree.

Edited by Kylotrope on Aug 8th 2020 at 4:32:31 AM

Mehhhhh the whole part of "they have to kill" is barely explored since only yang and blake have kill someone and it was the villian who was nearly totally unrelated to the whole deal.

Jaune’s arc in Atlas was resisting the opportunity to singlehandedly father an entire generation

MIL Fs are temporary; the glory of Vale is forever

Admittedly, he didn't have to resist hard. Not only were those women clearly not all there if they were attracted to that haircut, but Tyrian killed a good chunk of them at the rally.

That is because the world is trying to protect jaune purity at all cost.

As I said, MIL Fs are temporary.

Ffff....had an argument on You Tube and I gotta vent.

They keep saying how Robyn is this deeply flawed and just as bad as Ironwood figure

They bring up her 'bending the rules' as reason she dosent come off as trustworthy, she steals needed recources back after they were taken. This can barely even be called Bending the rules because James is going against the rules and moving passed the checks and balances set in place for him.(on the subject, a dig at the Ironwood stans, why is it that bending the rules and endangering a whole city of people is apparently okay but Bending the rules and stealing from the military is apparently so horrible?)

But yes, All Robyn does it take back some of the recources that Mantle needs to not die. Some, she's not an extremist, she does nothing vaguely heinous, her taking back recources being stolen despite the fact it's putting her city at severe risk. That isn't suddenly morally ambiguous because the government were the ones she was taking it back from.

And they insist how Robyn would do ANYTHING for Mantle, and claimed they were just like James with His city Atlas. When Robyn dosent do a quarter of the irresponsible and flat out horrible things James ends up doing. And the whole point of Robyn and the happy Huntresses is that they're the only real Huntresses in the Kingdom. The only ones who follow the code of fighting for humanity and not being overly loyal to a specific kingdom or place like James and his specialists.

I dont think Ironwood is bending the rule, he is requesting material for a secret proyect, which is shady as fuck(kinda like ozpin, ironies of Ironies) but as far as I know is not bending the rules, robyn is a civilian and was clearly prepared for a confrontation in order to do so(granted, one cant expect less, it would be naive of her to do so).

"Some, she's not an extremist, she does nothing vaguely heinous, her taking back recources being stolen despite the fact it's putting her city at severe risk. That isn't suddenly morally ambiguous because the government were the ones she was taking it back from."

We dont know exactly how much she take but little is probably isnt, while is not heinous, it is somewhat shady in some senses, also you dont get to be morally clear just because is the goverment, otherwise everyone would do it.

Ironwood is definitely bending the rules, and in fact that seems to be a central issue with him from the start. He comes to Vale with his military forces, uninvited, and proceeds to start undermining Ozpin and interfering with the Vale Council.

He holds two counsel seats in Atlas, something that is apparently worrying a lot of people even before Ironwood started spiraling post-Beacon. He finds technicalities to let him increasingly just do whatever he wants, often through intimidating the other two members of the Council to keep them from opposing him.

He takes resources from Mantle, because Robyn has really been the only person to fight back against it. The folks in power are overall unconcerned and willing to ignore Mantle, as the city's condition suggests long-term neglect.

Ironwood has good intentions, but ultimately he's showing what happens when the authority figure bends and breaks the rules at their own whim to "do the right thing".

As for Robyn, I think it's important to remember where she's coming from: she starts out only knowing that Ironwood is just taking whatever he wants from the most vulnerable people in the kingdom. He's willingly endangering their lives, while refusing to explain why these people have to suffer so much. It's the difference between Legal and Moral.

This volume has been about To Be Lawful or Good. The Ace-Ops and Winter choose to be Lawful, putting aside their morals to follow their commander. Robyn represents the Good side of the argument, deciding that protecting the citizens of Mantle is more important than obeying the law. It's very timely and a little prophetic to how this year has been going, in terms of the protests in the United States.

Ironwood represents an ideal of the Ends justifying the Means. He's focused on an extremely ambitious long-term goal that he hopes will help everyone. To accomplish this, he is willing to sacrifice his most vulnerable citizens with the hope their suffering will help a larger number of people in the future.

Robyn represents the argument that the here-and-now matters, more than some distant possible future. That helping people right now is more important than MAYBE accomplishing a greater good down the line.

Edited by harostar on Aug 8th 2020 at 5:07:37 AM

"but little is probably isnt, while is not heinous, it is somewhat shady in some senses, also you dont get to be morally clear just because is the goverment, otherwise everyone would do it."

Not really, taking back life saving recources isn't made more shady by the ammount of it she took.

Pretty much how I see it as well, although far better worded than I could have articulated.

Possibly. I did notice that at least one of the thirsty mums that ended up bleeding on the floor was later up and about when the post-massacre curfew was in place. I'm not sure if that means she was released from hospital with a 'flesh wound' or just animation inconsistency.

I was going to ask about this. Robyn was added to Base-Breaking Character on the YMMV page, but some things it lists seem so minor that it comes across as complaining instead. I also think Arc Fatigue is being misused. Anyway, what do people think?

• Base-Breaking Character
  • Robyn Hill had one of the most controversial debut volumes of any character in the show. Her fans loved her for her can-do attitude, her willingness to stand up for the people of Mantle and stand up to Ironwood, her blunt willingness to cut through red tape, and for the potential of shipping her with various characters, particularly Fiona and Winter. Her detractors have criticized her for being part of an Arc Fatigue-ridden plot with the Council Election, her relatively uninteresting design with its muted colors, her mundane weapon, and her role in the events of Chapter 12 which saw Clover's death, Tyrian's escape, and her and Qrow being arrested due to her Hot-Blooded nature.

On the subject of Arc Fatigue, this entry exists on the Arc Fatigue page:

• RWBY fell into this to some fans with Volume 4, due to how much time was needed to tell each of the main heroines' stories and do some needed Character Development and world-building. However, because the stories were all told simultaneously, it took the entire season to tell each of them. This continued into Volume 5 as it took the entire season to finally get the main heroines back together, which only happens in the final few minutes of the final episode.

The Arc Fatigue trope explicitly states that Four Lines, All Waiting moves at Arc Fatigue speed by definition. I think that this entry is basically just Four Lines, All Waiting. It has a defined start and end to its plot, so the only thing even vaguely 'Arc Fatigue' about it is the plot slow-down, which is built into Four Lines, All Waiting by default. I therefore don't think this is an Arc Fatigue situation; I think Four Lines, All Waiting has it covered.

Edited to add: Huh. I didn't realise it spells 'FLAW' before.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 8th 2020 at 12:28:01 PM