Marvel Comics General

Which makes for more Fate/ jokes

Honestly, I don't like it.

I don't think we need to make Clint useless to make Kate look good.

It kinda makes it seem like she can only be competent if he's an idiot.

Undermining one character to build up another is kinda cheap.

Butt monkeys are just a cheap trick to make other characters stronger

....yes.

I've never liked the concept of the Butt-Monkey, and (If you are serious, then) you've finally explained why I've felt this way.

Though I suppose it has some value in possibly making people relate to a character or just wish they could catch a break.

But yeah. Most of the time, it goes overboard. Like watching someone fail all the time gets pretty tiring after a while.

I wonder if it has something to do with two characters with the same codename working at the same time? Because that happens a lot with the various Flashes and Green Lanterns at DC too, with writers shilling their favored holder of the mantle by dunking on the others.

In superhero comics it used to be if you did the work the other heroes would more or less respect you

But it feels like the out of universe hierarchy is reflected in universe

The Avengers are embarrassed to have to work with Black Knight and talk about how much of weird loser he is while he’s helping them save the day

The MCU gave Hawkeye the memetic status of the useless guy. We may like it or not, but it simply happened. The comics are likely treating him that way because "if you can't beat them, join them".

...and yet, let's not forget Old Man Hawkeye. That guy was a loser in the sense that the villains considered him Not Worth Killing back in the villain uprising and nowadays he lost everything that was of value to him (just like everybody else in the setting), but he was absolutely not a "loser" in the memetic sense of other comics.

Edited by GrigorII on Jul 18th 2021 at 10:46:12 AM

The best part of Hawkeye is when some guy who considered Hawkeye beneath their attention suddenly regrets that decision

At least two elders of the universe can attest to that

So, let me ask again:

What heroes in the marvel universe are like Hawkeye: nothing enhanced. No fancy suits, no drinking some special formula that extends their age, or lets them be olympic level without any (initial) training. No extra powers that still leave them with normal durability and strength, like say Daredevil. Just raw skill.

Obviously there's Clint and Kate. Then there's Frank Castle.

I know there should be more, but I'm having trouble thinking of them.

Baroc the Leaper?

I know you said heroes but eh.

It's not like Frank's really a hero either.

The first Union Jack was a Badass Normal hero. His two successors however were enhanced by the Super Serum and by the power of Pendragon respectively.

There was also MVP from the Initiative comics who was raised from infancy on a specialized diet and exercise regimen that his great-grandfather Dr. Erskine (the one who created the Super Serum) devised that could achieve the same results as the Super Serum over a lifetime.

Edited by M84 on Jul 18th 2021 at 9:51:49 PM

Wow. Marvel does not have any where near as many pure unenhanced, no extra powers Bad Ass Normal characters as DC has.

I've never noticed. Even the guys who don't have super strength have something extra, like Dare Devil and his Super-Senses, Iron Fist and his ki control, etc.

While DC has just a lot of normal dudes being normal dudes who don't immediately die while working with super humans and fighting otherworldly threats.

In terms of combat abilities. I'd say a majority of Mutants. Hell Beast and Moria have nothing going for them except Mental Time Travel and a furry exterior, respectively. None of those seem like powers that could be weaponized

For those that aren't Mutants or subject to Super-Soldier programs. there is Black Widow and Nighthawk.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Jul 18th 2021 at 6:55:11 AM

Daredevil's interesting in that a lot of people mistook him for a Badass Normal vigilante since his super senses mostly just make up for his blindness.

And nope, Black Widow in the comics is technically enhanced too. She's got unnatural youth and vitality due to biotech enhancements.

Edited by M84 on Jul 18th 2021 at 9:56:56 PM

Does Nighthawk have anything else going for him?

Like, Widow and Mockingbird with their slowed aging and drinking the infinity formula respectively?

Even then, his suit allows him to fly doesn't it? Or am I thinking of a different Nighthawk?

Well the current Nighthawk is actually enhanced.

Not sure about the other ones like the Supreme Power.

Nighthawk benefits from an alchemical potion that gave him enhanced physical abilities.

Beast has enhanced strength, agility, and a healing factor.

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 18th 2021 at 9:58:07 AM

Widow also gets peak human everything without training, so there's that too.

Heck, those were even his original powers in the comics. He didn't get blue and furry too until later in life.

Edited by M84 on Jul 18th 2021 at 9:59:43 PM

Also enhanced unethical decision making although that might be a skill he trained up to instead of a power

Yeah, Hank took a few levels in fascism.

Edited by M84 on Jul 18th 2021 at 10:02:57 PM

Remember when Beast was the chill good guy, way back in 2000s? What the fuck happened?

When he was first on The Avengers and he was just a cool guy who smoked weed and fucked? And was definitely in love with Wonder Man?

Ultimate Alliance 3 has Beast as an NPC and he is as sweet as can be over there.