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May 9th 2012 at 1:50:55 PM

This has been two tropes in one for a long time. The first trope is indicated by the new name 'victim falls for rapist' but the other trope is the rapist claims that he loves the victim and rapes him/her because of this supposed love. We don't have a name for that part, so when we change the wicks, it seems odd, especially when the victim doesn't fall for the rapist.

Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
May 9th 2012 at 2:35:28 PM

Isn't this the same as Rape Is Love?

Special trousers. Very heroic.
SeptimusHeap Tadpole! from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Tadpole!
May 9th 2012 at 2:39:30 PM

[up]It was just crash-renamed from that. See the "Rape Trope renames" thread in Special Efforts.

May 9th 2012 at 2:39:46 PM

They renamed it so that people wouldn't think we were pro rape. I didn't rename it!

Michael So that's what this does Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
May 9th 2012 at 3:57:00 PM

So there is a second trope along the lines of Rapist With A Crush?

May 9th 2012 at 4:12:07 PM

It's been inside the original trope all along, but not distinct from it.

May 9th 2012 at 4:15:55 PM

"Victim Falls For Rapist" is something I've always seen referred to as Rape Romance, at least in fanfic circles (I learned in fact very quickly what it meant, because it's NOT something I'm into, generally). I'd also like to note that there is a bit of a difference between "bodice-rippers" and some of the fanfic I've seen labeled "Rape Romance" or (on occasion)"Romance Rape", as classic bodice-rippers seem to be more of a submission/dominance thing, whereas some of the fics I've seen... um, are a little more brutal.

But then, I don't actively read them, so maybe I'm wrong and the genre is more wide-ranging; I've also heard the term "Non-Con" for "Non-censensual" thrown around, but again, "not consensual" has never been something I'm interested in, so I'm not clear on whether there's a difference (though I would assume "Rape Romance"/"Romance Rape" would obviously feature romance elements whereas "non-con" could easily include flat-out porn content).

Yeaaaaah probably better to keep that variant of the trope as Victim Falls For Rapist. More clear, and moreover, I like the fact that it isn't jokey; normally I like jokey titles a bit, but NOT when it's something as serious as rape.

Seems to be that when the rapist assaults a victim and then claims it was because they're in love with said victim, that that would be covered under other tropes articles... I'd have to poke around, but there's gotta be something like I Did It Because I Love You (though that may not be specific enough and may in fact have creepier overtones depending) or... I don't know if Love Makes You Crazy would work, maybe Love Makes You Evil might, I don't know. It seems like a subset of something... it may depend on context. I would definitely consider other tropes' full range of coverage before making a new page though.

ETA: Love Makes You Evil seems to cover this possibility... in fact, it even references the old name for the page! At least, it would seem to cover it when it's not just a excuse and really is Stalker with a Crush taken to dangerous levels.

edited 9th May '12 4:25:18 PM by snickersnack

peccantis the flies will find you Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
May 10th 2012 at 3:51:47 AM

How about Love Induced Rape? Not ideal but at least not as volatile and suspicious as Love Makes You Rape.

Subtrope of Love Makes You Evil, Love Makes You Crazy, and perhaps I'm a Man; I Can't Help It.

edited 10th May '12 3:52:45 AM by peccantis

before the darkness arrives
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
May 10th 2012 at 8:22:46 AM

Personally, I think the two sides of The Trope Formerly Named Rape Is Love are sufficiently closely tied together that separating them is pointless; one usually goes with the other, and in fact one of the most common reasons why the victim falls for the rapist is because of the rape being love-motivated.

And I don't think Love Makes You Evil is really the operative trope; more like Sex Equals Love carried to an extreme. The "justification" is usually either that the rapist can't resist their overwhelming attraction, thus proving that they really love the victim, or the rapist wants to prove the intensity of their love through sex, because sex requires love or something (you can actually find dialog that boils down to "I wouldn't have been able to rape you if I didn't love you!").

So I'd prefer to keep them as one trope. Unfortunately, I can't think of a good name that covers both halves and doesn't have the same problems as Rape Is Love.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
May 10th 2012 at 9:01:31 AM

I mostly wanted a redirect that we could use for the rapist excuse case.

lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
May 17th 2012 at 9:57:32 AM

[up] Something like Love Motivated Rape would more-or-less work for a redirect, I guess. To rename the trope to something that covers the whole shebang, maybe Romanticized Rape or Romance Via Rape?

edited 17th May '12 10:02:03 AM by lebrel

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
AGroupie sick of it all from City of Angelic Devils
sick of it all
May 18th 2012 at 4:27:33 PM

Romanticized Rape sounds good...

oh god no. I didn't mean it in that way. I meant it sounds good as a TITLE

?
May 18th 2012 at 5:49:04 PM

Hahaha! Yes, that is a good title.

Nocturna Seeking for Light
Seeking for Light
Jun 5th 2012 at 10:35:05 PM

Bumping.

If anyone has ideas for a redirect for the "rapist thinks rape expresses love" angle, it would be most appreciated, as I'm going to be ready to move wicks (from the old name to the new) in a day or two. Or if people think the whole trope should be renamed; in which case I'll hold off on moving wicks.

peccantis the flies will find you Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
Jun 6th 2012 at 3:44:11 AM

[up] What's lacking in Love Motivated Rape?

before the darkness arrives
Jun 6th 2012 at 6:40:29 AM

I've cut all the rape tropes. They were getting us in trouble with google.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Jun 6th 2012 at 7:19:40 AM

Would you mind making a new thread somewhere else where we can discuss the new policy? Even if its locked, a nice big post explaining the full situation would be wonderful. The entire reason we were doing this was as a preemptive move to keep google from freaking out.

Shameless self promotion (Superpowers and biotech)
Jun 6th 2012 at 7:36:36 AM

It didn't work. There is no explanation needed beyond the fact that the topic is a pain in the ass to keep clean and it endangers the wiki's revenues. We just won't have articles about rape. Super easy. No big loss.

edited 6th Jun '12 7:37:06 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

Total posts: 19
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