Cupcakes (The My Little Pony Fanfic)

IIRC, Agony In Pink is not just Torture Porn, but also involves rape. Cupcakes on the other hand doesn't.

And initially I did object to the description of the petition reason, because likening it to Sweet Apple Massacre, which would have deservedly been nixed by the P5 anyway, is a gross misrepresentation.

edited 30th Apr '12 10:31:03 AM by EarlOfSandvich

Are the 5P supposed to be dealing with torture porn in general?

@Delvarian: The other wiki has a fairly standard definition. If you check out the list of movies that fit the billing of "torture porn", few (if any) are actually pornographic. It's basically a term that means "fictional work that focuses on torture and violence to an extreme degree."

(It's also worth mentioning that the term was coined by a critic of Hostel, and thus the negative imagery associated with the "porn" part of the term was probably intended. It since took off as a name for the sub-genre.)

Thus, a work's status as "torture porn" really shouldn't factor in the P5's current discussions, since it's not descriptive of whether the work includes actual pornography.

edited 30th Apr '12 10:32:44 AM by Meeble

And Agony In Pink did have sexualized violence, and not just violence. It was guro, not gorn like "Cupcakes" is. I really would never like to see anything about this work ever again, and my gut tells me it's disgusting and horrible. But it doesn't break the current rules.

Well, I know Saw and Hostel were specifically said to be OK.

Yes, and this is more that sort of work. Disgusting and vile and reprehensible, but not porn or paedoshit.

Much of the horror genre exists by using extreme violence to shock/scare, with the more extreme becoming the torture porn genre, such as Saw and Hostel. If we decide to cut those, it does set a potentially dangerous precedent as there's a number of films that use such levels of violence without regard for realism. I'm thinking Kill Bill and the works of Miike Takeshi as examples, and I could see pedantic, semantic arguments over the difference between the two categories if we go in that direction.

Agony In Pink was sexualised violence and rape, with specific, graphic attention being devoted to genital mutilation. That is pornography, and not "merely" sadistic extreme violence. If Human Centipede stays, then that to me is a powerful precedent as to other torture porn works.

edited 30th Apr '12 10:48:06 AM by CaissasDeathAngel

Saw has an actual story though. Dunno about Hostel since I've never seen it but if it was released in mainstream theaters it should be OK.

Now, I'm not wholehoggedly calling for the removal of the Cupcakes page. I'm just saying, from what I've heard of it, it seems like the sort of thing designed to appeal to people who get off on violence. If it stays, meh. If it goes, meh.

I see it the same way. If it goes it'd be not just because it's a work with torture porn, but because it's a cheap excuse plot to have as much gorn as possible based on freaking MLP.

Anyway, I said all my opinions on the matter. I honestly think this may not get cut, at least through the P5, though I don't know what'll happen in the long run.

Yeah if it doesn't get cut I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. I'm just throwing in my 2 cents for why a cut may be valid.

I don't think it's supposed to be fetishistic. If it is, then the author is doing a bad job at it. There isn't nearly enough imagery to tantalize. For example, it says that the pony got his/her/whatever wings ripped out. If it it was fetishistic, it would have gone into Purple Prose mode and lovingly described how the blood slowly dripped out, how each blood-filled feather fell bit by bit, and maybe used the pony's entrails like a harp and sung praises about how it pulsed.

I honestly ain't seeing it. If it was a comic or something, that would be a different story, but as a pure text work, it really falls flat.

Not really. It just needs to be... "sperging", as certain circles call it: obsessing over details. If I ever wrote a torture scene, I'd go into that sort of detail, not to make it attractive, but to communicate how much attention the victim is paying to the process of their own destruction, as well as to how cruel and unusual the very process is. I would do it from the torturer's POV too if it was the first time, but if they're more experienced then a much more cold&casual tone is appropriate.

edited 30th Apr '12 3:31:36 PM by TheHandle

If the P5 aren't looking at violent works right now, I'll withhold my suggestions. However, works of extreme violence should be looked at because many Gorn works aren't something I think Eddie wants on his wiki.

Gorn is a tricky issue. On the one hand I'm not going to vote to cut Saw or Hostel because they're mainstream movies, but on the other hand I personally even find that stuff disturbing despite how jaded and cynical I am about real-world violence. Cupcakes probably falls under the same umbrella, but it's worse because A. it's based on a show for little girls and B. it's a fanfic, not a film that saw a full theatrical release. Either way, I don't really have a problem with keeping it. We'll see what the other three decide to vote.

Well, after reading through this thread, and with Martello's opinion in mind, I can safely say that I'm for keeping it. It's not pornography, and there's no pro-pedophilic material in it either, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm okay with it.

In Spain, Saw VI only came out in porn cinemas: it was labeled X for "glorifying violence".

Yes, but I don't see how that is in any way relevant. This work doesn't glorify violence. And, really, exaggerating Pinkie's bipolar, manic-depressive personality into being downright psychotic, and from there Insane Equals Violent, is such an obvious exercise.

I'm convinced that, while Cupcakes may not belong on tvtropes for other reasons, it is not within the jurisdiction of the P5 to cut. If we want to talk about cutting it, we should take it out from under the P5's noses.

I saw a video made on the basis of cupcakes. Violence to the Xtriiiiime, but no fetishism of said violence. Definitely not within P5's jurisdiction I should think.

Agreed with Akagikiba that Gorn is hardly what Fast Eddie wants on the wiki. Extreme violence (with ponies no less) can be interpreted as a fetishism of the same. And it's a fanfic of a kids show. Really now, that's the most ridiculous thing about it.

Why isn't this under P5 jurisdiction exactly? As I understand it, the whole point of the group was to make the wiki family-friendly again.

No. Their jurisdiction is porn and paedo-pandering. Not violence.

edited 2nd May '12 12:35:40 PM by lu127

If we want to make the wiki "family friendly" we need to remove human centipede.

Unless Fast Eddie decides to expand our duties, Cupcakes is not actually something we need to be judging. Like lu said.

edited 2nd May '12 12:40:24 PM by Martello

Eh, if Cupcakes stays I won't lose sleep at night but I hope Eddie considers what to do with works of extreme violence in the future.

edited 2nd May '12 1:17:48 PM by Akagikiba

Eddie has already stated we are not getting rid of works with mature content aimed at a mature audience. We are getting rid of paedo-pandering and explicit porn, and that's it. If we go beyond that, pretty much the entire horror genre in all media would need to be purged, and no one is arguing for that.

As for "Extreme violence (with ponies no less) can be interpreted as a fetishism of the same", come on. Alternate Character Interpretation can be used to say anything about anything. Misaimed Fandom pretty much exists because of it. Because of Misaimed Fandom, some white supremacists insist that American History X is a superb glorification of their cause. But if we purged explicitly racist works from the site, that (documented) interpretation would not cut it as justification for removing that film. Quite obviousy, not all gorn is fetishistic, and to suggest otherwise strikes me as a crass overgeneralisation.

edited 2nd May '12 1:49:31 PM by CaissasDeathAngel