The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

Could we maybe stop using the term "pedoshit"? It really just seems like a shaming attitude, especially towards people who like the work in question for non-pedo reasons.

EDIT: Also, I absolutely LOVE the people trolling the recommendations for perusal as if they're completely invincible and anonymous. Makes it all the more satisfying when the mods ban-slap them.

edited 4th May '12 12:25:32 PM by Bluesunnyday

I sincerely doubt the administration is going to drop the term pedoshit, unfortunately.

Yes, let's not shame the pedophiles. That would be awful.

There's no sense in being an asshole about people who disagree with you.

Martello, as someone who has been sexually abused when she was twelve by people who didn't even know Lolita existed, the word makes me extremely uncomfortable.

Y'know what - nevermind. I don't know why I would even try to get back into this line of conversation.

edited 4th May '12 12:36:31 PM by Martello

Like I said above, what about people who like a work for non-pedophilia related reasons?

That's kinda like going "You happen to like something that we deem bad? Then you're most obviously a pedophile. Nope, don't tell me about the story, it has panty shots of a 10 year old so you're a sick bastard."

Please note that I am NOT SUPPORTING PEDOPHILIA!!!!!, but you are being kinda rude by using that term.

Guilt by Association

In any event, A.) This probably isn't the place for this argument B.) This probably isn't even a good argument to have and C.) If we're going to have this argument, I would encourage everyone to be open minded and reasonable about it.

I don't like the word pedoshit, but I'm not going to make a huge fuss over it. What I will request, however, is that the council not extrapolate that, by virtue of the fact that the wiki is using the term pedoshit, that the council-or anyone else-should go too far out of their way to attack pedophiles, knowing full well that you can't exactly argue against it for fear of being banned.

edited 4th May '12 12:38:41 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

@Arha: The entries I haven't voted on so far are ones that I know nothing about. If you are certain that a work would run afoul of the guidelines, there's no harm in posting it here. This discussion on Chu-bra, for example, is very helpful.

Yes, I was also going to say that - Arha, please feel free to list whichever works you think are unquestionably porn so I can check them out quicker.

Enough of that. Just say paedo-pandering and call it a day. Longer I know, but your stomachs can handle it.

On another note, can anyone weigh in on Bliss Stage? I can't see anything indicating objectionable material on our page, so I dunno.

Isn't Bliss Stage about the only people in the world being under age X or something and power or whatever is based on relationship levels or something?

I only know about it from a friend, but I can guess why it might have been flagged.

Tomu, nobody is saying or even attempting to imply that, because you like Work X, which panders to pedophiles, you are automatically a pedophile. Well, some people may be trying to do that but we generally ban them on the spot.

We are targeting for removal works that pander to pedophiles, full stop. That means we need a method of judging when (pander to pedophiles = true).

By contrast, arguing in favor of a work on the basis that it has quality other than (pander to pedophiles) is not something we're necessarily going to entertain. That doesn't mean we think you are a bad person for liking it, it's just that the one criteria pretty much overwhelms the others.

edited 4th May '12 12:48:38 PM by Fighteer

Errr, I don't think it was Tomu who was arguing for that. I think it was Bluesunnyday.

My point is that the official usage of the term pedoshit is counterproductive in this environment. I agree with what Lu said here, but I don't think that's an official ruling.

edited 4th May '12 12:49:32 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

It's the term we're using. I'm not comfortable with it either, but that's not the point. Or maybe it is.

edited 4th May '12 12:49:22 PM by Fighteer

If you like a work for other reasons but aren't bothered by the fact that it endorses pedophilia or presents it as acceptable, that's not a huge improvement.

Anyway, what I don't want to see — and what, TBH, I'm seeing less of — is this:
Alice: This is pedo-stuff
Bob: It actually isn't
Alice: You're defending pedo-stuff!\

edited 4th May '12 12:56:46 PM by HersheleOstropoler

Lu you want info on bliss stage? I don't have it but I can go ahead and get it if it will help.

But as i understand it as a pen and paper rpg the game is as explicit as you want it to be

most gm I know would fade to black under age or not.

crapsack and dystopian with the sole adult being a batshit jerkass is what I got from the page.

edited 4th May '12 1:02:27 PM by Shadis

The GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENTS post has been amended in such a way that it no longer encourages that kind of behavior, which I think is a large part of why you're seeing less of that. Calling everything "pedoshit" contributes to that behavior, but I guess that's just a compromise one has to make.

Isn't Bliss Stage SUPPOSED to be taken as being creepy, though? Not familiar with it myself, but that's the vibe I got from the page.

I don't really know where to ask this, but there are quite a few pages that appeals were asked for/suggested for review that aren't on the queue, or the resolved page. (My own personal interest in European art house films made me notice that a lot of the cut but appealed Euroshlock films are on neither list, for instance.) What should be done about that?

Ah, okay then. I'll post two or three at a time so I don't end up with extremely large posts.

Conquering The Queen

• When are the sex scenes located?: Everywhere. Every couple minutes you'll come across one.
  • Are they spread out over the game?: Yes.
    • How much gameplay is there between sex scenes? : Very little. The story is basically just about some evil soldier guy who craves power and sex and uses the latter to achieve the former.
  • Are they only at the endings?: No. You get plenty of sex scenes before your ending is decided upon.
    • How hard do you have to work to get an ending?: There are only a couple choices. There's no real effort involved.
    • Are they in every ending? Every good ending? : Yes. You'll see lots of sex before you get to any ending.
• Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?: No.
• Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?: No, it wouldn't make sense.
• Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?: Stills.
• How explicit are the sex scenes? : Very. Rape fetishism, some pedo stuff and sex slavery.
• Personal opinion: Blatant porn. It doesn't pretend to be anything else. Cut it.

Hitomi

• When are the sex scenes located?: From perhaps about a third or halfway through all the way to the ending.
  • Are they spread out over the game?: Yes.
    • How much gameplay is there between sex scenes? : An okay amount of time. It's not as constant in this respect as the above, but quite a bit less play time between scenes as the likes of something I would consider harmless like Shuffle.
  • Are they only at the endings?: No.
    • How hard do you have to work to get an ending?: There's some effort involved to get the ending you want. The game helps you keep track of plot branchings.
    • Are they in every ending? Every good ending? : More or less.
• Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?: I don't recall there being an option like this.
• Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?: No. One of the three main plot lines (they split again later) begins with a rape.
• Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated? Stills.
• How explicit are the sex scenes? : Fairly. There's a pretty high amount of sex, including one route that includes high amounts of rape and abuse. To be fair, it's not treated like a good thing.
• Personal opinion: This is kinda borderline. I'd personally recommend cleanup and locking at the very least. There's a lot of sex and rape fetishism and it's about equal parts porn and plot with porn maybe slightly more important. Still, probably cut.

Jewel Knights Crusaders

• When are the sex scenes located?: Everywhere. Your choices basically amount to 'Who do you want to have sex with?'
  • Are they spread out over the game?: Yes. They occur very early on and continue on until the ending.
    • How much gameplay is there between sex scenes? : Not much. There are briefs scenes establishing some semblance of plot before you end up in another sex scene.
  • Are they only at the endings?: No.
    • How hard do you have to work to get an ending?: No difficulty. Basically you just keep picking one girl until you get your ending.
    • Are they in every ending? Every good ending? : Yes, you will see sex before every ending.
• Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?: No
• Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?: No
• Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?: Stills
• How explicit are the sex scenes? : Pedo stuff, lots of rape, rape is not really condemned.
• Personal opinion: I've used this one as the baseline for 'Complete blatant porn that breaks all the standards we've set up' for good reason. Cut it.

edited 4th May '12 1:13:40 PM by Arha

Well Arha, now I feel excellent after having read that. -__-

Hey, at least I'm sparing the P5 from having to read the things themselves.

I'm just glad no one has had to deal with any scat so far.