The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

@Krazy Kopter: If it's on the list, it'll get looked at. That's the job of the P5. I should reiterate that submitting a T rated work for review had better have a damn good reason other than your say so.

@Hamburger: Eddie has given himself the privilege of casting the deciding vote since the P5 is currently short-staffed. Hopefully that'll get remedied soon. In any event, it's his wiki.

edited 2nd May '12 1:39:19 PM by Fighteer

Your opinion is not a particularly sterling case. You need to have specific evidence that the ratings board missed something absolutely damning to supersede the rating.

Mod-ninja'd.

edited 2nd May '12 1:39:08 PM by BadWolf21

EDIT: ninja'd.

edited 2nd May '12 1:40:08 PM by LargoQuagmire

edited 2nd May '12 1:40:48 PM by KaiserMazoku

edited 2nd May '12 1:41:40 PM by HamburgerTime

edited 2nd May '12 1:42:04 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Krazy, cut it out or you'll be banned from this subforum. You flagged the article, now let the process work.

Sorry, I apologize for that rant. I'll keep quiet about it until it's sorted out.

So, if "nothing but fanservice" gets reviewed, what about Queens Blade? I know it has Legal Jailbait used for titillation in it, as well as a little boy who frequently gets into sexualized positions with his Hot Mom.

I second the call for Queens Blade. I mean, it's main streamyish and all, but I've never been able to force myself to watch it because it just seemed to be absolutely nothing but really really dumb fanservice.

I mean, I'd say "but all the doujinshi surrounding it is pretty hot" but like Fighteer said, that way lies roast skunk and madness.

I'm really concerned about the ease with which people are throwing around accusations of "pedoshit". Regardless of whether or not we should have a page for Eiken (the decision for which seems to be "no"), the fact that more than a third of its parent magazine's readership was 14 or younger should exempt it from being "pedoshit" for having a sexualized 12-year-old.

You can hold the opinion that 12-year-olds shouldn't be having sexual thoughts (although that's a pretty futile stance), or that 12-year-olds should only have sexual thoughts about older people (although I would personally find that opinion kind of squicky), but 12-year-olds having sexual thoughts about other 12-year-olds is not pedophilia under even the most tortured definition of the term. "We don't want to host discussion of works that sexualize minors" is a defensible statement, even if I don't really agree with it. "Sexual depictions of minors is prima facie evidence that a work was intended to appeal to pedophiles" is a completely different (and quite definitely false) statement.

Eiken is crap and I don't really care either way about it specifically, but completely ignoring the intended audience for a work is going to change this process from "we must purge works to protect kids from predators" into "we must purge works to protect kids from underage sex". Which is kind of where I expected this to end up anyway, but I'm continuing to hold out hope that sanity will prevail.

Never seen Queen's Blade, but if it's 100% dedicated to fanservice too, then it should go.

It's a fighting game. It's at least 60% focused on combat.

Oh, right. I forgot that the anime was based off of something.

CARRY ON.

But it isn't porn, and unless the Legal Jailbait character is one of the main fanservice providers, you can't really call it pedo-pandering either.

edited 2nd May '12 2:07:50 PM by TheFoxsCloak

My vague recollection of Queen's Blade is that basically everyone is there to provide fanservice. But if it's based off of a fighting game, then, well, it IS a fighting game, so it can't be nothing BUT fanservice. Maybe just needs a cleaning. Or not even-I haven't even bothered to check the page!

lebrel, our society's common judgement has concluded that, even if 12 year olds are having sexual thoughts about one another — and to be sure, it happens — they are not able to make informed sexual decisions and works which sexualize them are unwelcome as a result. The idea of "12 year old sexual fanservice" being intended to appeal to 12-year olds makes my stomach churn. There is no way an adult can make that statement with a straight face and not be considered to have a prurient interest.

And again, I'm talking about kids in explicitly sexual situations, not "playing doctor" or having tween romantic angst.

We don't consider 12 year olds having sex in society to be welcome or normal, so we should not be allowing it in published works for the purpose of fanservice or tittilation.

That's kind of "ew" but absent damning context I wouldn't take it as anything other than parody or possible Parental Bonus.

edited 2nd May '12 2:15:14 PM by Fighteer

Again-I vaguely recall a water slide filled with yogurt.

It's a fighting game. It's at least 60% focused on combat.

Ahem. 40%. Those boobs take up a lot of space.

Badum dum TUSH!

Well, I've never had the mental fortitude to force myself to watch the anime, and have never played the game, so I can't comment on if there's anything more unacceptable about it.

Boobs alone do not make a work untouchable.

I think that's eiken.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

@1243 Fighteer: "We don't consider 12 year olds having sex in society to be welcome or normal, so we should not be allowing it in published works."

Well, Japan allows such fiction, and allows such fiction to be sold to people of the same age, and their age at which kids become sexually active is several years higher than in the US. In specific, they have a much lower rate of sexual activity among early-teens / preteens than we do.

Having personally been a 12-year-old, I can attest that I was not only interested in sex (strictly in the abstract), but writing my own homebrew porn at that age. I think there's a Judeo-Christian attitude involved here, that fiction is a training-ground for future actual behavior, versus the Japanese attitude that fiction is an outlet which substitutes for actual behavior. If I had a twelve-year-old kid, which I don't, I'd much rather they be holed up in their room with a smutty manga than out actually experimenting with another twelve-year-old. Although a copy of Playboy would probably be much healthier for them than Eiken.

Boobs are great. I love boobs. What were we talking about again?

Ahem. Boobs alone do not make a work unsafe for kids. Children with exaggerated breasts is squick for many people but again there has to be some context to work with. You can't just go "hey it shows kiddies with boobies" and expect us to cut it.

Well, that's fine and dandy for Japan. We are applying American standards here. It is not TV Tropes' mission to prescribe how we ought to be handling sexuality. We aren't trying to enact social change. If we want to be a reference work and not a political soapbox, we need to be descriptive, not prescriptive.

Off the record, I agree with you that sex education in America is all sorts of fucked up, but there ought to be a better way to approach the topic than to show kids erotic media, either openly or when they find their parents' Porn Stash.

edited 2nd May '12 2:33:37 PM by Fighteer