LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

On a day to day basis, no doubt I deal with people of multiple branches of Christianity, Jews, Atheists, and possibly even some of the rare American Muslims or Buddhists. But 99% of the time, I'm not going to know, because what religion they are has absolutely no bearing on our interaction. That 1%^note Actual percentage may vary based on geographical location, faulty memory, and numerous other factors of the time, it's because the other person is forcing me to acknowledge their religion^note Which, to date, has always been some branch of extreme evangelical Christianity, who insist they're "the True Christians™". The same thing in that comic strip - no doubt the gay couple had dozens of positive interactions every day with Christians, but since those people were being, yanno, polite, respectful, and most importantly, not assholes about their religion they never knew about it. That is the biggest problem with the Vocal Minority.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

To be fair, that was said from the standpoint that everyone needs Jesus, including the comic's author in that very sentence.

I'm on a no-Jesus diet.

Kansas bill to allow individuals and organizations to deny services to same sex couples based on religious grounds.

In practice it doesn't matter all that much. While it's often illegal to refuse service based on sexuality, it's quite often legal to refuse service and just not give a reason at all. The burden to prove sexual discrimination is generally proportional to the density of establishments that would try to do so anyway, and rather quickly becomes prohibitive compared to risk of legal fees.

edited 13th Feb '14 12:34:52 PM by Pykrete

So, does that mean this terrible, fascist law stand - or will it thankfully be challenged and savaged like it needs to be? The people of Kansas - specifically NOT ALL OF THEM can be this backward and stupid as all fuck, right? No one will want to do business here if this stays law of the land and in a couple of years the place will look like something out of The Hunger Games... Which I'd love to see if only to punish these scum for thinking such a law would protect and strengthen their bottom line, which is anything but religious tolerance... Bah.

I need to go punch things now - Gov't of Kansas, screw you. You and your bigotry.

edited 13th Feb '14 3:38:39 PM by TheShopSoldier

Even if I had different face, I AM STILL DISGRACED.

The law seems intended—intended, I emphasize—to protect small businessmen with religious principles from the sort of thing that befell the defendants in the now-notorious wedding-photography and bakery cases. However, like so many state legislatures, they weren't equal to drafting a sensible, narrow law that wouldn't have tons of unintended consequences. (Not that even a sensible law wouldn't get spun as some kind of outrage, of course.)

"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones

The intention is still bad. Unless you businesses run by Atheists should be allowed to not serve any religious people.

METAL GEAR!?

@Jhim: It's a bit silly to pass laws allowing businesses to deny services to a group of people and not expect a negative reaction from that group. Kind of like the shock when LGBTs protested against Proposition Straight. Who would have thought oppressed minorities wouldn't take oppression lying down?

I'm okay with not requiring them to provide services for explicitly religious functions.

Conversely, it's a bit silly to file suits proscribing business owners from acting upon their religious precepts and not expect counter-reactions of some sort. Next week, I expect there'll be some counter-counter-reaction to the counter-reaction somewhere.

"She was the kind of dame they write similes about." —Pterodactyl Jones

The bakeries and wedding photos thing I see as different from a blanket.' Don't have to serve if you don't like.'. They're usually small family organizations that deal with people very one on one in something pretty personal, and there's always multiple options. Compare to, say, restaurants and suites where your really excluding people from general public stuff.

I'm baaaaaaack

The point of these threads are to DISCUSS such matters, no? No one's even gotten rude yet.

I'm baaaaaaack

The thread isn't locked is it? I don't know about the others, but I have one more thing to say about this subject, and I'm done.

EDIT: Since the thread isn't locked, I'd like to post this.

Idaho representative proposes a bill preventing the state government from revoking licenses to people who refuse services or employment based on religious grounds.

He sites the lawsuits by gay couples against bakeries and wedding photographers as his motivation, so I'd say it counts.

The jobs the Idaho government requires licensing for include doctors, pharmacists, police, insurance and real estate agents, etc.

edited 14th Feb '14 1:14:06 PM by Morgikit

There is absolutely no good defense of that stupid bill.

edited 14th Feb '14 2:41:05 PM by Wildcard

METAL GEAR!?

That makes no sense at ALL. Do you even need a license to be a photographer?

I'm baaaaaaack

Yes you do.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Well, its official. I am looking for a church willing to marry my lady and myself.

"Oh wait. She doesn't have a... Forget what I said, don't catch the preggo. Just wear her hat." - Question Marc

Congratulations and Good Luck.

Congrats! Post lots of pictures!

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Polar, I have very mixed feelings about this. One half of me is excited that you are taking a big step towards what you think will be your future joy. The other half is worried that your taking a step that will lead you down a path that will not lead you to Joy. In the end, it is not what I think that is right that matters, it's God's. So, when I go to bed tonight, here is my prayer for you and your family.

^{Lord, someone who I admire is getting married soon. Polar is a great woman, she is a constant window into a world that I do not understand. Give me better understanding of her. However, lord based on what I think you have told me, I think she's making a mistake. If she knows you, I pray for her to know you better. If she does not, I pray that she does come to know you. In your will, I pray blessings, truth, and wisdom upon her and her family. Bless her life, her wife, and her children with the knowledge of you. Lead them in paths of righteousness for your name's sake. Surround them with a hedge of protection. Lead them to a joy and fullness of life that is found in you. Let your plans and purposes for her prevail. Amen.}

Soban, dude. Sometimes it's best to keep your mouth shut. And if you're so compelled that you can't, PM it.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

This is the LGBT rights and religion thread is it not? I feel that the prayer and emotion I feel about this is entirely appropriate to talk about and address here.

It's considered tacky at least to sit there and tell someone they're going to hell.

You may not have been that explicit, but praying they see the light of god according to your interpretation isn't very classy.

It's like spitting in the birthday cake before you serve it and then wondering why people aren't smiling with you.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Gabrael, you seem to be missing that I want to strike up a conversation about my prayer and why it is right/wrong/tacky/appropriate is why I posted it up here. I was going to pray something like that if I posted it up here or not. I do talk to God about the people on this forum a lot. The question is not if I will talk to God about ya'll but how should I do it?

Second, I'm not 100% convinced that Polar is going to hell. I take a opt-out version of heaven rather then an opt-in one that is so popular today. I mentioned hell nowhere in my post or in my prayer. Homosexuality is not something that is talked about a lot in the bible. Like five verses out of many thousands talk directly about it. I think someone can be both a Christian and homosexual. Just like someone can be a christian and a Liar or a Christian and a adulterer. If you ask me or talk to me about those two issues, I'm going to talk about them to you and shed light on the issue as I believe the Bible talks about it. Just because you do have sin in your life does not mean your going to hell.

Third, I pray that she does see the light of God. If I am wrong, then she needs to be looking at the truth of what the Bible communicates either way. If I am wrong about homosexuality, I fully support her. If I am right, I want her to come to a knowledge of the truth. In both cases, I want her to find truth, joy, and peace.

Gabrael, let me turn the question around to you. If you were a Christian who believed like I do, how would you pray for Polar? Feel free to take the prayer I have and amend it to be both consistent with my beliefs, concerns, and respectful of polar and what she is doing in her life.

edited 22nd Feb '14 8:16:38 PM by soban