General Star Wars Thread

I was just watching a New Hope when I realized that while we have quite a few threads based on specific tangents and specific subtopics, we don't have a thread about the Star Wars films in general. Thought we could use one...

Anyways, on a New Hope, it's only just struck me how hard destiny hits Luke to make sure he goes where he's supposed to.

His Uncle decides to buy a droid that isn't R2. The droid immediately explodes.

He decides to forget about the message R2 had, so R2 runs away. He finds R2 and decides to go back home, and he's immediately attacked by Tusken Raiders, so Obi-Wan can save him.

After everything, he decides to forget about going with Kenobi and wants to go back to his Uncle, so destiny says "fuck it, you asked for it" and massacres his family.

Answer The Call, dammit, or else. You've been warned.

(Also: "Han, my boy, you disappoint me. Why haven't you paid me, and why did you fry poor Greedo?" is one of my favorite lines. That scene is the best part about those additions they made a few years ago for sure.)

edited 17th Dec '11 10:26:12 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

That wasn't destiny. That was R5 D4, Skippy the Jedi Droid.

As for destiny, what do you think Kenobi would have done if the message had been delivered according to plan? Gone along and leave Luke without protection? Refuse altogether?

Am I a good man or a bad man?

Probably tried to talk Luke into coming with him, then gone alone if that failed.

^

Why would he? He didn't do anything about the Empire or Luke for 20 years, so if the message had reached him as planned, why would he brought him?

The story with the Jedi droid reminds me how bad an extended universe with a lot of writers can get. One of the central points of Star Wars was that the Sith had almost one, that there were no Jedis left. But if you add all the surviving, secret Jedis together, you could easily form a new order.

I'm pretty sure Skippy isn't proper EU cannon, which is a shame because he's pure awesome. I've never really gotten much into the EU, I'm not sure I've even read anything set between the triologies, but I like the idea that there were about 20 Jedi left scattered across the galaxy and that Vader spent his time killing the other 18. And despite the fact they've added more survivors that's basically what happened right?

As for Obi Wann, it bothers me that he never contacted Luke. He was getting pretty old already, especialy considering the supposed age limit that his dad was too old for. You'd think he'd be old enough to sit him down and have a talk with him, by that point he could already have gone off and joined the academy.

Maybe Kenobi's just a guy who always leaves things to the last minute. He never bothered contacting Luke about where to get more training before he almost got killed.

Am I a good man or a bad man?

Is it true what they say about Star Wars fans hating Star Wars? If they were just talking about Episode II, that I would understand.

edited 24th Dec '11 3:43:58 PM by Mort08

Looking for some stories?

It's a joke, albeit based on observation. Some types of Star Wars fans (such as myself) can be very critical of a lot of Star Wars media for whatever amount of reasons.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

Star Wars Fans can be counted on to hate any one of the movies for reasons that vary from legitimate criticisms to petty gripes or meaningless non-reasons.

And when I say any of the movies, I mean any of them. Every since one of them is hated by one or another solid block of people who still call themselves fans - I don't just mean small one-off bands of people, I mean large subgroups here - for a myriad of reasons.

It's actually quite interesting.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

That makes sense. I myself hate Episode II for that thing it dares to call a love story. I'd call it a Romantic Plot Tumor, but that would be an insult to Romantic Plot Tumors.

Looking for some stories?

The joke goes that every true fan hates Star Wars—they just hate it for the right reasons.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Episode II is my least favorite of the series as well, but not for the romance - simply because Anakin's character felt so... flat. Unfocused. Like they were trying too hard to make him Obviously Evil, but then remembered he was supposed to be sympathetic, and while doing that they forgot to actually give him a personality.

One of the reasons I really like Revenge Of The Sith is because they greatly improved Anakin's character - he still comes off as emotionally distant, but this time it feels like a part of his personality rather than the absence of one.

I used to dislike The Phantom Menace, until someone pointed out to me that when you don't allow Jar Jar to suck the drama and momentum out of every scene he's in, the movie is actually really good. And he was right.

Also, I've long felt bad for the Gungans. Besides Jar Jar and his crineworthy Unfortunate Implications greatly exaggerating their... off qualities... they're actually a pretty cool bunch. His friend, the other general - Roos Tarpals (everybody has a name, I love that about Star Wars) - is one of my favorite secondary characters in the series, even if he does just show up for a few scenes to be a straight man.

I would have actually enjoyed more scenes with Jar Jar in the series if he was always paired up with Tarpals, him being an annoying goofball and Tarpals being his irritated, competent friend you constantly kept him in line with a sigh and a facepalm. It would've made the Gungans look a bit less like a joke if a more sensible one was a more recurring character, I think.

edited 25th Dec '11 11:44:23 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I agree with you on Phantom not being as bad as it's made out to be. I hold the opinion that it would have been more fondly remembered if it wasn't a Star Wars film. It's already a decent movie - could have been great with a few rewrites - but it just wasn't what the fans were expecting or wanting after 16 years. Hype Backlash did the rest.

For me, one of the other really bad things about Episode II was this; they wasted Christopher Lee. I mean, who does that? Other than Lucas?

edited 26th Dec '11 12:58:20 AM by Mort08

Looking for some stories?

Did they? From what I remember the interaction between Obi-Wan and Dooku was one of the highpoints of the movie.

Heck, nearly all of Geonosis that didn't involve Anakin was great.

Granted, his character had barely any backstory (in-movie), he didn't really go anywhere with what they did set in place for him, and just felt kind of like he dropped into the story, but the movie was still greatly enriched by his presence. Greatly.

Random Note: Thinking about that movie makes me wonder. Y'know, I get the feeling people might almost unanimously like Padme if it wasn't for Attack of The Clones. Not even all of Attack of The Clones, but the few scenes that people point to as being bad - a lot of the scenes between them that aren't explicitly romantic weren't half bad in retrospect.

Granted, I never disliked their romance in the first place - not specifically how it was written per se. More that I felt it was fated to be poor because Anakin's character was stilted, and thus the romance would naturally be stilted as well. It's more meh, for me, rather than bad, and like Anakin itself it gets better in Ro TS. It's at least not painful to watch.

edited 26th Dec '11 2:22:58 AM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

The PT is pretty much a showreel of wasted opportunities, anyway. Liam Neeson is one example, as is killing off Darth Maul rather than keeping him as a consistent villain as per Darth Vader in the OT.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

^Agreed fully with that.

I think, as far as tone and setting design, The Phantom Menace just feels more like a natural fit with the original trilogy than Clones or Sith did.

As for romance: Anakin is a space monk. Padme is married to her politics and hasn't dated since high school. It makes perfect sense that their interactions would be painfully awkward. But I get the impression that this isn't what the movie was going for—that the movie was simply trying to portray them as TRU LUV and only made them awkward and stilted completely by accident.

edited 26th Dec '11 8:24:38 AM by MetaFour

I didn't write any of that.

You want to hear something interesting, listen to the ANH and maybe ESB radio dramas. Now the second one has some interesting additonal character bits, and is done okay; hit and miss. The radio version of A New Hope is very fascinating though, and worth a listen as it really goes into detail about Luke and Leia, in fact the first hour of it is entirely made up of stuff not in the movie. Appearances by Bail Organa, Luke's friends on Tatooine, characterization of Vader, its a really fun story gold mine for Star Wars. Check it out when you get the chance.

(ROTJ's radio adaptation is completely skippable as it was made 13 years after the film came out without Mark Hamill or Billy Dee Williams's voice work, and other than some cute references to Shadow of the Empire and a small appearance by "Arica" not much interesting things happen with it)

Still waiting for a Legion of Losers movie...

No fair, I was just about to make this! Good to see that we've kept wank to a minimum so far; something about Star Wars really gets Tropers riled up like nothing else...

So, who's everyone's favorite Cantina alien? Everyone likes them, right?

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."

The band. That's a pretty cool song they played. How many space opera 'verses portray the commoners listening to swing music?

I didn't write any of that.

I have to admit I'm not the biggest fan of Star Wars, I never got into the EU and I can't tell you the names of any of the background characters or give you stats, but I enjoyed the original trilogy because of their simplicity. They were simple stories that just happened to be told in space.

The Prequel Trilogy didn't have that feeling. To be honest, they felt like a Roman Sword and Sandals film. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing though, I find that to be a legitmately interesting take on the series, but that the premise was let down by some of the elements within the films. Count Dooku was a waste of both a character and an actor, Grevious was a hasty chance to rework the mistake of killing Darth Maul and Bobba Fett is simply not that interesting a character to build on.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.

Back on the subject of every Star Wars film having fans who hate it, I've never seen this for A New Hope. Can anyone point me in the direction of an article or something expressing this view, googling just gets me comparisons to another film or just outright non fans.

Am I a good man or a bad man?

Your own worst critic and all that. Fans spend a great deal of time with the source material. They know it forwards and backwards as well all the issues there are with it. They've dissected it to the point where they know where every issue is with the movie. And I don't mean geeky technical minutae. We know where the actualy story telling and stylistic problems are with the movie and we will go on and on about them. Personally I can pick Star Trek apart like no one's business. If you listened to me when talking about certain episodes or even series you'd think I hated it, but I love it. I just know it's flaws as well as it's triumphs.

She's Natalie Portman, I don't care what she does I'll love it.

While I agree, the problem is that they weren't played off as even being awkward. They were inhuman robots aping human emotions, badly.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit

Were there Twi'leks in the Cantina? I might be thinking of Chez jabba.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

I liked the Cantina band. The music's just awesome. The weird devil guy is kinda cool too.

I'm baaaaaaack

The Phantom Menace is made much better if you interept Amidala's action as Tranquil Fury rather than just sternness. It makes what used to sound wooden suddenly actually work.

And without Jar-Jar its actually pretty good.

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter

I think my favorite Cantina alien is Tzizvvt, simply for having probably the most unique costume there (and yes, he is in the movie; look in the background when the bartender points out our heroes to the Stormtroopers), but I absolutely love them all!

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."