The Medical Thread

As far the anti-vax assholes are concerned, is there no way to make vaccines compulsory for everyone going forward? Preferably with government clinics handing it out to everyone for free.

Making it so that your job applications, permits and everything else can be rejected out of hand if you don't provide proof that you've been vaccinated, that sort of thing. It's what they do in the Subcontinent, so it's not like it can't be done here.

I mean, when I immigrated here, they wouldn't even let me proceed with my application until I showed the US Government proof that I'd been vaccinated, which wasn't hard - everybody gets the dosages a few years after birth. Just had to dig around in my old files for the documentation and get fresh ones where needed.

EDIT: Pagetopper, the joy.

Edited by TechPriest90 on Mar 25th 2019 at 12:37:11 PM

This story's about a month old, but I figure it's still worth posting.

After five months in ICU, the world's tiniest baby boy has left the hospital

And yes, he is the smallest baby boy ever born. The article mentions that the smallest baby girl born was 8.89 ounces at birth.

Judge Rules Against Kentucky Teen Who Refused the Chickenpox Vaccine

Slight change of subject: Baby sex surgery sparks clash at California Capitol between doctors, LGBTQ community. There is a bill under discussion there that would disallow sex surgery on babies. To me it looks like a complex medical and moral issue.

It's not as complex as many in the medical community make it out to be.

Frankly, assigning a physical gender without checking with what the brain is doing is a manifestly stupid thing to do. Because the brain is, you know, physical — and not just a little bit involved all the way through physical maturation, but... kind of critical.

And, to check in on the brain, you kind of need to let the kid gain a vocabulary with which to tell you what they think about who they are, on top of letting the brain physically develop, as well as interact hormonally with all the bits they've got.

Some surgery may well be necessary at points to prevent physical discomfort, but functional maintenance is not the same as going whole-hog on assigning the gender because "it would just be easier to do all of it now and get it done in one fell swoop".

That's always been more of a social rationalisation than a conclusion based on solid research.

Because, somehow, the risk of embarrassment growing up is deemed more painful than being incorrectly assigned with no say in things, or several adaptive surgeries while growing into who you are.

If people used the exact same argument with spina bifida, you'd get massive surgery done once — because kids heal better than adults (it might kill them, but, hey). And, then you just live with it not being adapted to you as your body grows and develops however it does, kid — because reasons.

It's bonkers.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Apr 10th 2019 at 1:18:04 PM

And you say that from what position of authority on medical matters? To the extent that medical research counts, I am "part of the medical community" and I don't feel like I can form a non-superficial opinion on this, not without spending time I don't have pouring over primary literature that I have little to no understanding of.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Apr 9th 2019 at 11:37:45 AM

Psychology BSc (granted, dropped out due to CFS — which has, in turn, prompted my own interest in things developmental, immunological and hormonal).

With a psychiatrist as a mother. And a bloke with spina bifida as a cousin who I've seen go through multiple surgeries. Who was told he would die young. He's going to be hitting fifty, soon... with a bit more luck.

Go fish.

(Heck, I partially picked psychology to escape the hell that I thought studying the Krebs cycle had been in biology (A-Level) — poor, naive, little me. There is no escaping metabolic, interlinked functions of brain-melting twistiness! Not in neurology!)

PS — That monstrous beast has never been anything as clear-cut as "a cycle" — an interlinked, conglomerate, intermeshed system of feedback loops and cycles with a mind-boggling number of points of failure, jury-rigged workarounds and knock-ons, more like. I also refuse to call it "the citric acid cycle" on the grounds that way more than merely vit C is involved, bub. And, "Krebs" sounds more foreboding. Which fits.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Apr 9th 2019 at 11:19:23 AM

In which case you certainly have more grounds to take a side here than me. That being the case, what would you say the relevant primary literature supporting your position is, and have future studies been able to replicate those results?

Primary literature? Any decent, up-to-date developmental psychology doorstop should do as a start, given it points you at all the really relevant literature to get your teeth into — you can do worse than W W Norton. Amongst the first things just about anybody notes upon cracking open one of those flower-presses is the sheer amount of endocrinology, physiology and anatomy they get to wade through, given its supposed to be, you know, about psychology.

Never fear: they also cover the ethically-challenged fuck-ups of forced gender reassignment surgery. That are on record. In any quality. Because, let's face it: psychosocial medicine has had (and still has)... *cough* quality issues. -_-

About the smallest baby... That story both had me tearing up and fills me with awe at what medicine can can help us with.

About the baby sex reassignments... who do we give the right to decide what is medically necessary, here? I admit that is the only reason surgeries on babies should be performed period, especially surgeries of this kind, I'm just asking because we have to be careful not to let it be abused.

As for vaccination, I read some people in the US politics thread bring up making it compulsory, which gave me a question I thought would be better asked here.

Why is it not already compulsory?

Edited by akanesarumara on Apr 9th 2019 at 8:52:20 PM

Intersex complications can lead to things like the formation of fistulae and other such life-threatening fun and games.

When faced with repeat infections, it's a good idea to do some surgery to stabilise things enough to allow, e.g. peeing without worrying.

But, a full-on attempt at going for "girl" or "boy" before said girl and/or boy can get their opinion across? Not strictly needed to prevent reoccurring infections.

Yet, that's pretty much what the medical community has been doing. Which, because it's surgically simpler to scale back than build up even in neonates, means that most intersex babies are still being assigned "female".

Even if said "girl" is a genetic and neurological boy who goes on to later successfully drop one or both of their testes, even despite hormone therapy. And then gets to struggle with the reality that that which surgery has already trimmed off is a darned sight harder to graft back onto.

Surgeons have a tendency to pick the most doable option, which doesn't necessarily equate with the best outcome. Yet, these decisions have mostly been left in the hands of surgical teams.

When what is needed is a more holistic approach using a bunch of developmental specialists. Which could even mean shutting parents out; fundamentalist Christian with Very Definite Views™ may not be the best decision-makers in this scenario... until... they've been worked on a teensy bit by a team of therapists with a lot of coffee and cake.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Apr 10th 2019 at 1:14:08 PM

I agree, and when I said "abuse [the label of "medicinally necessary"]" I meant "people declaring an emergency to cop out of looking at the situation further or more in depth."

John Oliver did a segment on the Opioid Crisis again, this time pointing fingers directly to the culprits, who were very rightly and awesomely compared to Heisenberg from Breaking Bad.

Edited by Oruka on Apr 15th 2019 at 9:17:54 AM

Would combining Bloodletting and Blood Transfusion provide any kind of help if someone has toxins in their blood? Would it be worth considering as a last ditch effort?

Well... assuming the loss and gaining of blood were at the same speed, that would just be switching the blood out for healthy one, right?

If that is the case, it would theoretically prevent the bloodborne toxins from spreading, but not sure if it could repair any damage already done before the treatment's start.

Maybe. That procedure is called exchange transfusion, I don’t think it’s ever been successfully used for that purpose in adults but it’s a semi-common procedure with infants for things like drug toxicity. I’m not sure how well it would work in an adult. It would probably depend on the toxin in question, though I can’t imagine it would do anything for most toxins since they’re not exclusively in the blood per se.

If you’re referring to blood agents, there are specific antidotes for those.

Edited by archonspeaks on Apr 20th 2019 at 4:54:01 AM

Well, I was thinking supernaturally-induced alcohol poisoning. Was wondering if this should be a go-to option or more of a desperate measure (it's a really low-tech setting, and this is the closest thing to simulating hemodialysis I could think of).

Edited by Elfhunter on Apr 20th 2019 at 12:00:39 PM

It could work, though I’ll point out you need a lot of blood on hand for exchange transfusion and some sophisticated equipment as well.

Edited by archonspeaks on Apr 21st 2019 at 5:52:40 AM

What re some things to look out for when dealing with the Medical profession?

It depends on what kind of professions and purpose of visit. Like, are you visiting a general practitioner? Surgeon? Optometrist? Dentist? Dermatologist? And for what purpose, diagnosis? Surgery? Consultation?

Also, what's the circumstances? Just a regular hospital visit or in an emergency situation?

Lastly, how much can you afford? Do you have an insurance? Because let me tell you, those last two bits matter a lot in countries that don't have universal healthcare...

Edited by dRoy on Apr 22nd 2019 at 9:44:09 PM

Wouldn't it be simpler to do something akin to dialysis, to screen out the toxin and return the patient's own blood to them?

It's a low-tech fantasy setting. They probably don't have that sort of tech.

I had no idea that it was this complicated but I do wanted to see a general practitioner for a checkup. Also, why does it take along time to become a doctor anyway? I know I asked this before but can some one explain it to me as if I were five yeas old?

I admit it has been an excessively detailed answer.

So just a general practioner for check ups: well, be polite like one would to anyone and try to be as detailed as possible when the doctor asks questions.

As for why it takes so long to be one, the amount of knowledge and skills needed to be one is absolutely massive. For instance, just a basic book on human physiology and anatomy is thick and there are so, so, so many sub fields within medicine that one needs to learn.

Also, because medicine is a field with contant new discovery and messing up can result in a dire consequences so one has to learn both a lot of theories AND practices.

A malaria vaccine is finally being rolled out for widespread usage.