Todd In The Shadows Thread

Pretty much, when Todd had it as a runner-up on his worst of 2014 list. He basically said it was something along the lines of "listening to a funeral."

According to his WMG page he also tweeted that it was something people in the '60s would take way too seriously. He might have said something else about it on Twitter during its peak, but I'm too lazy to find the tweets.

edited 12th Jan '16 9:40:02 PM by BurntMario

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.

Re: Take Me to Church: Except the lyrics don't actually do that, since it's a man singing about a woman. Just the music video tacks on the homophobia angle and it's, um, rather an uncomfortable combination. I'll be honest, I think it's one of those songs that's so lost in its metaphor that it says nothing.

Re: all of the Rolling Stones discussion: I think it just worth nothing that feminist critics at the time did see the Rolling Stones roughly the way Robin Thicke is seen today, they were just less able to speak up about it because of the lack of internet. "Rape music" is a term actually applied to the Stones at the time.

edited 12th Jan '16 9:40:11 PM by TheEvilDrBolty

I'm a fan of The Rolling Stones, and yet I fully admit their lyrics have breached through a lot of boundaries of decency. I'll give it that Brown Sugar is mostly an over-the-top parody that, while horrific, crosses the line twice in many ways, but Stray Cat Blues just flat out should not exist.

Kind of ironic that they played it on the radio as a song for Mother's Day, though.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

I feel like a lot of early rock and roll is pretty rapey and sexist (less often the former and more often the latter), though. Doesn't make any better, but worth noting. One of the most enduring rock and roll songs of all time, Ray Charles's "I Got a Woman", outright has the line "she knows a woman's place is right there in her home". And that's only the first example that comes to mind for me. There are definitely far worse examples one could bring up.

edited 13th Jan '16 7:41:05 AM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

Considering blues music was about demons and squeezing lemons, you're on to something.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

Regarding "Take Me To Church", I think the main source of confusion comes from the chorus of a song naturally standing out more than the verses. Because the chorus name-checks the Church and paints a clear image of religious devotion, but it's in the verses where it's explicitly tied to a lover.

Personally, I find the song to be overrated, and in particular the chorus sounds too sloppy in its execution.

Also, I mentioned I was trying to think of recent character pieces, and I can't believe I forgot about this one, considering how much it sideswiped Todd: "Pompeii" by Bastille.

edited 13th Jan '16 9:30:59 AM by Watchtower

I feel like there has to be some serious Values Dissonance for the idea of lusting after underage girls, because that topic pops up a lot in early rock'n'roll. They just seem to sing about it in a casual way like they're regular horny guys, and not like they're trying to break some taboo. I know the Pædo Hunt mentality has intensified a lot in recent decades, but I wonder how acceptable it was seen at the time.

Anyways, both parts of Todd Worst List are now available for Patrons.

edited 13th Jan '16 10:36:51 AM by djbj

Any kind of sex at all in musical lyrics was frowned upon in the 50s. Remember, people were scared that Elvis shook his pelvis so much.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

I mean, Lolita came out in the 1950s and - despite the passages of an erotic nature and the humour of the Unreliable Narrator, people seem to think it's about glorifying paedophilia - WAS a critique/satire on the sexualisation of the young girls. And generally something has to be prominent enough mindset to warrant a satire.

...Though, unfortunately, the book probably contributed more to that sexualisation of young girls than decreased it. (I mean, the terms "loli", "lolicon" and referring to a sexualised young girl as a "lolita" are all because of that book. And the image of Dolores Haze herself seems to be a sassy, sexually precocious teenager wearing lots of cool '50s vintage clothes and spending her time eating lollipops, sunbathing and crushing on older men rather than, yannow, an average fourteen year old girl who ends up orphaned, raped and kidnapped because of Humbert's twisted fixation and solipsism erasing her own identity and supplementing it with his own idea of what Dolores should be)

edited 13th Jan '16 5:16:03 PM by PippingFool

I'm having to learn to pay the price

For non-patrons:

Part 1 and Part 2.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.

So thirty minutes later, here are my thoughts on this long-awaited top ten list.

10: This song's rise to "popularity" (huge air quotes there) just utterly baffled me. I'm not even 2/3 of Todd's age and even I feel jaded knowing that it became a "hit." I was expecting it to drop like a rock after its peak, even when streaming was the only thing that kept it alive to begin with, but it actually had a legit chart run like any other pop songs. But it doesn't really matter—this song, unlike others that got popular off of Vine or even "Harlem Shake," has already fallen into the chasm of obscurity. Heck, it's probably been that way for half of the year.

9: Sounds slow and boring for a song that's supposed to be about curiosity. I'm just as confused as Todd about its premise.

8: Never heard this one, so I can't comment too much on it. It just sounds like another Intercourse with You song to me. Though Chris Brown's presence on this reminds me...there's not a single mention of "Post to Be" on this list. I mean, it's got DJ Mustard and Chris Brown, and it was a bigger hit. I was expecting Todd to at least have it as an honorable mention just so he could compare the "you gotta eat the booty like groceries" line to "grocery bag" in "BedRock."

7: Eh, it's tolerable to me. Charli XCX provides uncredited background vocals, which probably helps—the chorus, compared to the verses, actually feels like it has some personality injected into it, which is certainly needed for an artist like Selena Gomez.

6: I don't really have a strong opinion on her song with John Legend, though I'd expect adult pop stations to overplay it to oblivion in the coming months. As for the real #6, it's your typical '50s song with some regressive overtones and an awful narrator thrown into the mix.

5: Wow, I didn't think this one would be so low on the list. I honestly thought it was a strong contender for #1, what with the way he compared it to Soulja Boy.

4: Bad lyrics mixed with bad music make a bad song.

3: They pretty much are the Pussycat Dolls on steroids, aren't they? This song is kind of annoying, but I wouldn't put it this high on the list. The sax beat is tolerable on it.

2: Yes. Just, yes. I'm so glad this one ended up being so high on the list, especially when Todd said that '15's worst songs mostly weren't interestingly bad. The only thing this song motivates me to fight is the absolute boredom it causes me. Not to mention the relentless Cliché Storm...

Honorable Mention #1: This song is basically a reskin of "Birthday" by Katy Perry, which as we know was on his best list the previous year, but I guess Levine's vocals brought it down for him.

Honorable Mention #2: Never heard of this one.

Honorable Mention #3: I wonder what it is with Bieber's pissiness that just makes Todd amused by him instead of utterly disgusted like he was/is with Chris Brown. I suppose that while he's still a dick he's relatively harmless, which makes him look more laughable than detestable, especially with all the stuff he did in the past.

Honorable Mention #4: Never heard of this one. At least it didn't make too much of an impact on the Hot 100.

Honorable Mention #5: Now this song is taking forever to drop on the chart. Darn white Canadian teen guys with their acoustic guitar songs. But seeing how it's from Todd's least favorite genre of music, I was expecting it on the list somewhere.

Honorable Mention #6: Indifferent.

Honorable Mention #7: Eh. I can't say I like this one, but I can't say I mind it, either.

Honorable Mention #8: I guess this one counts as cod-reggae. As radio filler it serves its purpose okay, but there's not much use for it, especially when we had a real Jamaican guy top the charts just a few weeks ago.

1: More than anything else, I'm bewildered by the fact that this song exists. But I actually find it to be more on the interesting side of bad. All these singers-with-zero-sex-appeal do is namedrop a bunch of Marvin Gaye songs and call it a night, as if that made their song have any sliver of sexiness. It's kind of amusing, especially because they take it so damn seriously as well. But I don't mind its music; I think it's still quite listenable without the hilariously awful lyrics. Honestly, I think #1 and #2 should have swapped positions.

edited 13th Jan '16 11:40:45 PM by BurntMario

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.

Oh gosh. I haven't watched it yet, but if Number #1 is what I'm pretty sure it is, based on your hints... I was wondering why he never put up a review of when it was first released, and I've been waiting for four whole months.

I guess I'll find out soon.

edited 14th Jan '16 12:12:14 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.

Not even, this song's music is whitebread even by Pat Boone's standards. The only way it could be worse and more whitebread if instead of Puth and Trainor, the singers were Debbie Boone and Michael Bublé.

EDIT: also after reading through the comments on the You Tube upload of part 1, a lot of people REALLY have no idea how copyright on You Tube works and instead are just basically blaming part 2 being blocked on people being evil and petty. No, Todd's fans who I can only assume are teenagers with no knowledge of the law, that's not how this works...

edited 14th Jan '16 1:56:04 AM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

The words "Train", "INXS", "scrambled eggs" and "syphilis" come to mind.

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.

"How does that level of failure even exist?!"

Concerning Todd's #1 pick, I think it's about on the same level of ridiculousness as the Thong Song. Here you have Puth and Trainor sing these stupid lines ("Let's Marvin Gaye and get it on," sort of like "She had dumps like a truck, truck, truck" in the other song) with tons of over-the-top passion (although their vocals aren't quite as overwrought as Sisqó's), and the final chorus has this huge, comically bombastic orchestra back it up. Though unlike Sisqó, Puth and Trainor never seem to show even a single sign of self-awareness about their song's cheesiness.

According to Wikipedia, "'Marvin Gaye' is a reference to the iconic soul singer with 'the lyrics of the tune being an effort to spark romance and get that special someone in the mood, just as many Gaye slow jams have done for millions in the past.'" So, yeah, they legitimately thought it was sexy; they wanted people to take it seriously. Another interesting thing I found from the article related to one of the other songs on the list is that Puth actually appears in "Dear Future Husband"'s video as the pizza guy, the person Trainor ends up taking. So Todd's theory about him being her "Dear Future Husband" was coincidentally correct.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.

You know what, fuck those two, the fact that they have some of the biggest hits of the past year is simply a fucking awful, terrible tragedy for pop music.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

10: I only found out about this song because of Rap Critic, who basically says the same thing that Todd does. I personally don't count it as a song.

9. As somebody who's far from a country fan, I heard no controversy about this song, and I thought it was fairly interesting. I never thought it was about curiosity, just jealousy. It's definitely a better way to frame that feeling than that Nick Jonas song.

8. I've never heard this and I'm glad I haven't, from those snippets. Todd's right, Nicki just needs to cut herself off from YM, and I'm not even a Nicki fan.

7. I...kinda like this song, tbh. I actually do think Selena Gomez has somewhat grown into being a pop singer, if not a pop star.

6. Thought it'd be higher, honestly, considering the awful lyrical content and Trainor's obnoxious vocals. I mean, he basically covered it all in his review.

5. Totally called that it'd get the "well, it's a song meant specifically for kids to dance to" treatment and subsequent kick down the list.

4. My personal #1 for worst song of the year. I'm not her biggest fan anyways, and this is just clunky, poorly sung, poorly written, and the biggest waste of a talented guest artist since Justin Bieber's Baby.

3. I think the guest rap verse makes this worse than it should be. I wouldn't put it this high, but I get it.

2. This song sounds like a bad parody of the generic empowerment anthem. It just checks all the boxes, and does nothing original. I don't hate it, but based on what he's put at #1 before, I'm not surprised.

1. Called. it.

I find it funny that his choice for a fight song over Fight Song is The Trooper, a song about the infamous Charge of the Light Brigade. A song about a doomed charge that failed and got a quarter of it's participants killed is more inspiring than Fight Song.

edited 14th Jan '16 7:18:10 PM by BigMadDraco

9. I actually thought Todd would like "Girl Crush" because I figured it'd have a similar "dark horse country crossover" appeal to him that "Need You Now" did. The song isn't really about lesbianism at all; it's about obsessing over the other woman because the narrator wants the other woman's man. At least that's how most people who aren't my homophobic mom read it.

6. Why does Meghan Trainor keep making music that sounds good but sucks lyrically? The only thing I've heard with her name on it that I liked was "I Like the Sound of That", which she co-wrote for Rascal Flatts.

5. Somehow, just from hearing my co-workers talk about this song, I knew he'd hate this one.

4. A friend linked me to this when I got talking to him about Taylor. Hard to believe that this and "Tim McGraw" are the same artist.

2. Oh God, I hated this one ever since I first heard it in a Goodwill. Painfully generic. I hate motivational anthems in general, which is why I think "I Hope You Dance" is one of the worst songs ever, and this does nothing to change my opinion on such songs.

Honorable mentions:

• Just from the sample, "Sugar" does sound like one of the more tolerable Maroon 5 songs, because Adam Levine doesn't sound quite as much like a goose on helium.

• "Stitches" and "Chains". Somehow I've heard both of these on my manager's Pandora during a slow night. Didn't like either one.

Oh, so that's what "Girl Crush" is about. It all makes sense to me now—a "girl crush," by definition, isn't really a desire for someone as much as it is a desire to be someone. For instance, "I have a girl crush on Taylor Swift. I want her long blonde hair because it'd possibly make me appear attractive to a lot of guys." Whether it's a straight girl or a gay guy, this person isn't sexually attracted to Taylor Swift at all; he or she just wants to be in a position similar to hers.

I didn't think that would fly over my head, especially since I know what a "girl crush" is. I think Todd missed the mark a little when he said that the narrator desires to kiss a girl to get closer to a guy. Taking the controversy into consideration, was the Bait-and-Switch intentional? Those bastards in Little Big Town must have tricked a lot of country listeners into thinking it was about lesbianism.

Clever, they are, but the song still sounds boring to me.

Call me Willy Whistle 'cause I can't speak, baby. Something in TV Tropes really drove me crazy.

Actually, from what I can tell, most of the "lol lesbians" stuff was generated by the label to raise interest in the song. Most people I know of in the country fandom "got" the song pretty well. Keep in mind that Kacey Musgraves actually did make a pro-gay statement in "Follow Your Arrow" and country radio wouldn't touch that song with a 39 1/2-foot pole.

I think the issue with Girl Crush isn't that it might be Bait-and-Switch Lesbians, but that the "controversy" over it was actually hugely exaggerated and it's rumored the label may have planted the reports about the song getting banned in hopes of stirring up interest.

If it's just a song about being jealous of another girl that got misread as "I'm lesbian oh wait I'm not", then it's not something to be upset about. But if it's a song that was marketed as lesbian representation and made up the supposed outrage about it just for selling some more singles, then that's definitely something to be angry about.

And it seems like a kind of boring song otherwise.

edited 14th Jan '16 9:18:53 PM by Tuckerscreator

I'm the kind of person who doesn't pay attention to controversies like that, so I don't let them color my opinion of the song. Little Big Town's career has been one step forward, two steps back since 2002 — it seems literally every time they get a hit, they miscast the next single — and I happened to really like the song, so I was happy that it got to be a hit by whatever means. If I like the song, then I'm usually more lenient on whether its "hit" status was manufactured.

Another thing that boosted it early on was that Bobby Bones (who is the DJ equivalent of tofu on a white paper plate) spun it a lot on his show to drum up initial interest, but that also worked wonders on this song, which was my favorite country song of 2015.

Also, I can see why Todd hates that "Marvin Gaye" song, but I don't think it's "Tonight Tonight" unbearable. THAT one I agreed with him 9001% on. And the local top 40 station played it ALL. THE. TIME. (They still do. Last I checked their playlist was still stuck on "Worst of 2011.")

Honestly, "Girl Crush" just seems like a super generic song. If we take out the phrasing "girl crush" from it, it still says nothing interesting—doesn't really go into any detail about the jealousy or relationship. It might as well just be a ballad version of "Jesse's Girl", except less catchy.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

Just discovered that there was a Todd thread.

Since I don't live in America, or in an English-speaking country for that matter, and since the radio I daily listen to is the equivalent of the BBC, most of the pop songs I either discover during parties, or when they are successful enough to make it to the news or Youtube's front page (such as Adele's Hello, who actually got quoted in the news - the only other example since then was, you guessed it, David Bowie's).

So...of all those, I think only #3 and #4 managed to actually be significant hits outside of 'murica. My brother was in N'oleans during summer and told me he was quite close to use a screwdriver to remove #5 from his brain forever, but I never even heard it played here.

The #1 is absolutely hilarious though. I subscribe to the notion that it was an prank by their producers, but that neither of the singers was smart enough to realize it.

By the way, any predictions for the Top 10 Best hit songs? I usually end up regularly listening to one or two of the songs on his Best lists, but the last two years were exceptions in that I already knew the #1 spots - Uptown Funk because I happened upon Mark Ronson during a TV show, and Get Lucky because I'm in France. Is there any chance for Ratatat or Tame Impala to show up or were they absent of top chart lists?

edited 15th Jan '16 5:12:07 AM by Julep