Should we split the page.: Bishoujo Series

The main problem I have with this is that most of the articles that have Bishoujo in it's trope sheet automatically change it to Bishoujo Genre. Which is, needless to say, kinda awkward when it comes to mentioning characters who are Bishoujo but aren't in a game that's in the Bishoujo Genre.

Does anyone think a split is in order?

Just a heads up, in future when starting a discussion put the article in question in CamelCase like a wikiword.

Splitting them into Bishoujo Genre and Bishoujo Girl would make sense with the words at the end making it clear which was which. We really shouldn't be lumping the character type with the genre.

Also, we're trying to convince the admin to stop using custom titles to force names on people here. Feel free to chip in.

That being said, I think you have a point on the split.

Is this title kinda awkward also? There was even a discussion for this? What bother me most is the page itself use the term Bishoujo Series (which is less awkward and equally explanat) yet it was renamed to use the word 'genre' anyway.

Fast Eddie went in and changed a bunch of Japanese terms to X Genre—Shonen and Shojo, at least. Look at the TRS for Shōnen for more information.

I wasn't aware he went as far as renaming every single Japanese word trope.

Well, at last Bishōnen wasn't altered.

Not all. But judging by some of the things he said in the last thread, he meant to change them all, and couldn't find them.

edited 15th Jul '11 8:33:57 AM by Discar

This includes a number of terms that aren't genres and thus now make no sense.

We're working this in a different way, now. See this thread.

Unlocked, but the discussion in the thread linked materially effects this effort. It changes a basic assumption.

We get that, and they need indicator words to tell them apart form each other as well so they're going to get them. We're just trying to pick what they should be.

I support the split. Bishoujo Girl sounds good to me.

Do we need to make a separate thread for renaming Bishounen to Bishounen Guy to add clarity to non-Japanophiles/fans of anime-manga, or can we lump it with the Bishoujo Girl suggestion?

edited 15th Jul '11 10:05:46 AM by MarqFJA

I think we can probably lump it to make things consistent.

I'd prefer to avoid Bishoujo Girl, since it would mean Pretty Girl Girl.

Why not just have "Bishoujo (Genre)" and "Bishoujo (Character type)"?

@joey: Because that would utterly awkward to use, without resorting to redirects.

{This thread is not the place to make an argument about whether to add an English qualifier or not. —Madrugada}

PS:The way the troupe is written, there shouldn't be a need to split at all. The page is always supposed to be about the genre alone, not the character type. Technically, the most proper solution would be clean up uses of 'bishoujo' as a character.

I am not particularly convinced 'bishoujo' as a character is a trope, btw. Unlike bishounen, as paradoxical as it seems. From experience, I never seem 'bishoujo' being used to a specific character type, unlike bishounen.

edited 15th Jul '11 2:05:58 PM by Madrugada

This threads was locked once already for being more about the general change than the actual question of splitting Bishoju into genre and characters. It was unlocked because several of you insisted that it was not about the rename or the general proposition.

I strongly suggest that you stay on the topic of splitting Bishoju into two pages, one for the Genre and and one for Characters.

edited 15th Jul '11 2:04:26 PM by Madrugada

I'm seconding Heatth in that I don't think Bishoujo (character type) exists as a trope in any meaningful sense. I've never used it anywhere on the internet except as a synonym for "pretty girl" by people who use Gratuitous Japanese in their blogs/forum posts, and the page itself says that Bishoujo only has meaning when used in the genre sense. 99% of girls in anime/manga are going to qualify as pretty due to Generic Cuteness, it's not anything worth noting on a character page. This seems like a pretty clear-cut case of People Sit On Chairs to me.

Just delete the wicks using it to refer to a character rather than a genre and call it a day.

This is pretty good. As a possible alternative, add a brief explanation of the term to the Bishōnen page as the distaff counterpart, and link character references there.

I disagree with that assertion. One would see characters like the Sailor Senshi be referred to as Bishoujo, but would never see characters like Motoko Kusanagi or Rangiku Matsumoto being referred to as such, in spite of their respective designs clearly incorporating "sexy woman" as a selling point.

See also here. If I understand correctly, the Bishoujo character type has moe as a central element.

edited 15th Jul '11 6:44:54 PM by MarqFJA

Okay, so 99% of anime girls below university age qualify as bishoujo. I still don't see how that's trope-worthy.

Going by that logic; how is Bishounen trope-worthy?

Bishounen is about males who are beautiful in a feminine matter, as opposed to a more convention rugged manly good-looking guy. It's basically the difference between Legolas and Aragorn in the Lot R movies, tp use a non-anime example.

Women being attractive in a conventionally feminine matter is the default in anime... and pretty much everywhere else, for that matter (just look at Hollywood casting practice). It's the norm, not the exception.