Volgin came back as a hellspawn very specifically to top Big Boss as far as I'm concerned.
No one gets out of coming to his room.
edited 16th Oct '15 6:21:54 AM by Hashil
Eh, to be fair, as much tragedy occurs, there's virtually no penalty for backhanding your soldiers, or painting corridors with the blood of your enemies. Provided you know where and how to hide.
Old Snake vomits if you kill too many people.
I don't really get how Big Boss ends up devoting his life to building Outer Heaven, feeling all this betrayal from his mentor, and yet... Solid Snake ends up in that same position, and fights for truth, justice, and the american way. That I find tragic. Snake ends up way worse off than Big Boss, but like Sniper Wolf says, "Snake is a hero."
If I were to try and be poetic about it, Big Boss stared into the abyss and got his eye poked out... and then he hypnotized one of his buddies and told him to poke his eye out so he wouldn't be the only one. Snake though, he just stood there and had a smoke.
edited 16th Oct '15 6:25:45 AM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Snake still has things to fight for such as Meryl, Otacon, the colonel and Sunny for instance. By 4 he was especially taken with Sunny, a lot like Big Boss and Paz, if Sunny pulled a Paz...
Also Miller mentored Solid specifically to avoid creating another Big Boss and never betrayed him, Ocelot mentored Liquid to create another Big Boss.
edited 16th Oct '15 6:36:05 AM by Memers
And Solidus was just kind of an in between arsehole.
Funnily enough, he most wanted to emulate his father, but ended up doing things that even Big Boss wouldn't do. Well, depending on your interpretation of the child soldiers in MG 2, that is.
Maybe they really were Not So Different, now I think about it...
Yeah, that too, look at the clones.
Liquid failed biology and spent his life assuming he was biologically inferior. He decides to emulate Big Boss, though in V, he doesn't appear to even like the guy, assuming he ever learned about the two Big Boss's.
And Solidus... did he even meet Big Boss? He just took a class and figured, hey, this guy looks sick with that eyepatch, I'ma get one too! And I'll build my own Outer Heaven! With blackjack! And hookers!
Ocelot at least met the guy and saw how much of a badass killing machine he was, his fanboyism was somewhat justified.
edited 16th Oct '15 6:53:48 AM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
V spoilers but
Liquid never actually meets the real Big Boss, no. He never learns the one he meets is a fake as well since at Shadow Moses he wants and was to be given Venom Snake's body. And despite being rivals he flat out idolizes him because he can not win, its what 6 fights and 6 losses or so including using unfair tactics and metal gears.
His loss to Solid in MGS 1 was just a repeat of history to him.
if he actually learned that Venom Snake wasn't the real big boss it would have just utterly destroyed him.
edited 16th Oct '15 8:25:45 AM by Memers
6? I'm only counting 4.
Dressed to Kill.
I tend to think that Big Boss fall was more because he simply can't imagine life beyond soldiering. His bios tends to imply that he fight in major conflict, already The Boss' protege, while he still a teenager.
Also worth noting that most of his peers were not what you call "shining example of sanity and trustworthiness". EVA and Ocelot are Manipulative Bastard, Zero trying to be Well-Intentioned Overlord (not to mention the whole Les Enfant Terrible fiasco), Para-Medic and Huey got Drunk with Power, Strangelove is... Strangelove, SIGINT got drunk with zeny, Paz is Pacifica Ocean, and arguably the sane-ish friend he got, Miller and Campbell, he practically cut all ties with them.
Remember my idea about a hypothetical animated adaptation of the series? Well, I raised hell at 4chan with the following:
Anime movies for Solid 3, Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2, Solid 1, and Solid 4.
TV anime for Portable Ops, Peace Walker, Solid V, and Solid 4.
Changes in the backstory, most of which do what the games never did:
1. Give further explanation for Big Boss' backstory, in that, like The Boss, he's a child of one of the Wiseman's Committee. Studied in one of the schools run by the Philosophers, and that he met EVA there when they were children and promised that, if they were to see each other again as adults, they will marry. Unfortunately, the Philosophers decided to experiment on memory manipulation, with Big Boss as a test subject, thus not remembering EVA when they meet again in 1964. Also, make Big Boss The Boss' nephew.
2. Put the events of Metal Gear into 1991 as opposed to 1995, and that, although he had training, Solid Snake was inserted into FOXHOUND for Operation Intrude N313, with his lack of experience being suited for Big Boss' plans in that one.
3. Make rescuing Liquid from Iraq a FOXHOUND mission, with Snake being the one who saved Liquid, and give Liquid a Skull Face-esque backstory in the form of wherever Snake was, Liquid was, Zanzibar Land as one example, with its date being in 1995 instead of 1999. That way, while Snake gets fame, Liquid doesn't, which adds more fuel to the fire for Liquid's problems with Snake in 2005 (Solid 1).
4. Promote Holly White in that, post-Zanzibar Land, she's also involved in Solid 1 as a spy, where she ends up being rivals with Meryl over who gets Snake, and also, have Holly be the one Liquid threatens before his fist fight with Snake on top of Metal Gear REX.
5. Two changes needed for Solid 2 anime:
a. Skip the Tanker chapter and demote it to flashback cutscenes.
b. Have Snake's Codec conversation with Otacon in the after-credits scene take place the same time as Raiden reunites with Rose.
6. All relation to change #5, all after-credits scenes are to be animated.
7. Post-Solid 1 anime, Holly co-organizes Philanthropy with Snake and Otacon.
8. For a Solid 4 anime, have Holly be absent during Meryl and Johnny Sasaki's wedding; the reason being aiding Big Boss in acquiring Zero's body, which adds her to the events of Naked Sin (Snake at Arlington failing to kill himself, with Big Boss showing up with Zero).
Now, for the stuff about Snake having a sister, we'll have to need new games set in this anime continuity, where the world post-Solid 4 is like this:
1. Everything from the founding of the Philosophers to the Guns of the Patriots Incident be exposed to the media, thus making things even worse, with more conflict across the globe. Making this worse is that certain incidents have been caused by what appears to be a new biological weapon that kills, but if the infectee is strong enough, he or she can be brainwashed. The name of the biological weapon: FOXDOM (Fox Domination).
2. In response, the para-military group SNAKEHOUND is organized to combat this threat.
3. The protagonists:
a. Fox
Found in an old, abandoned laboratory, he was raised as a child soldier. He was eventually taken in by an NGO. One day, an outbreak of FOXDOM occurred, killing nearly everyone, except this child soldier. Due to this, he was shipped off to another laboratory, only for SNAKEHOUND to take the boy off the laboratory. Due to his skills, he was given the name "Fox." His assignment in this story is to guard a certain HVI from a certain organization.
b. Miyuki Homura
The first experiment in the project the gave birth to the Next-Generation Special Forces, in which, a clone of EVA was infused with Big Boss' DNA. As she turned six, she was then used for another Patriots experiment, which is implanting one's brain with knowledge of humankind's history. To make sure the project went on without interference, she was placed in cryo-sleep. However, in the year 2012, the facility keeping the girl was raided by Philanthropy, specifically Snake. After finding out the circumstances of her birth, she was given to the woman who assisted Para-Medic/Dr. Clark with Les Enfants Terrible. When she was released from her cryo-sleep, she appeared with no memory of her birth, so she lived a peaceful life. Now, circumstances will make her leave the life she knew.
4. The conflicts are now fought with four-meter tall bipedal tanks called Assault Gears, which are a response to the many Metal Gear REX derivatives that came about post-Shadow Moses Incident.
The first experiment in the project the gave birth to the Next-Generation Special Forces
Um.
Sir, I think you've gone mad with power.
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
V spoilers: I like to think Skull Face told Eli about his origin just to screw with Zero's vision.
Fuck Skull Face.
Completely likely.
Fandom Heretic
Best vocal track? Either Collective Consciousness, It Has To Be This Way, Stains of Time, Snake Eater, or Can't Say Goodbye To Yesterday.
...I really cannot make up my friggin' mind, huh.
Best intrumental track? Zanzibar Breeze or the MGS 2 opening/main theme.
re:Boss hype: ....dudes, I'm sorry. I know that saying this is probably massive Fandom Heresy, but... The Boss has never really impressed me all that much. >_> At least, not moreso than Liquid, Solidus, or Armstrong did.
Solidus had an exosuit and Liquid fell off a Metal Gear, then chased after you in a jeep while taking several bullets to the face.
It ultimately took an implanted heart virus to knock him down, and even then, we were briefly under the suspicion that he came back in spirit form.
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
He probably did. Ocelot eventually just got a prosthetic arm.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Yeah, wasn't the official reason for the cyber-arm is that Ocelot wanted to get rid of Liquid's ghost's influence on him and replace it with precisely engineered self-hyponsis so that he can both mimick Liquid's personality (and thus pretend that he really did get taken over by Liquid) and remain true to his actual scheme?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
I mean, the other character in that game who was a ghost implanted in someone's psyche with nanomachines and hypnotherapy could still vibrate your controller like when he was alive. If you had a controller with a vibration function.
The Fool
So yeah, basically Liquid might still have been around as late as the first two rounds of 4's final boss fight.
I sure said that!
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
... What? That can't be, the arm has been long gone. It was all just self-hypnosis and nanomachines.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Nanomachines really can do anything now, can't they. Except destroy themselves, I suppose.
edited 16th Oct '15 7:10:23 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
The Fool
It's more ambiguous in Ocelot's situation, but remember, hypnosis and nanomachines lead to Screaming Mantis actually being possessed by Psycho Mantis. Ocelot switched to avoid being controlled by Liquid, to be sure, but it's less conclusive that he succeeded.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Psycho Mantis was different. He was a psychic, Liquid was not. The only reason Ocelot got possessed in spite of that is because he inherited his father's spiritual mediumship power (and hasn't been trained to control it). Meanwhile, it's not a big leap in logic to assume that Psycho Mantis has the power to possess people even while he's a ghost.
edited 16th Oct '15 7:24:43 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
I'm playing through MGS 1 and I'm trying to save Merrill this time,
surviving the torture is proving..tricky
New theme music also a box