This thread exists to discuss British politics.
Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.
- There is a dedicated thread to discuss LGBTQ+ rights in the United Kingdom. That doesn't mean it's always off-topic here, but unless something's directly linked to political events, that's probably a better thread for it.
- There's also a separate thread to talk about your favourite British Prime Ministers.
Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
Quick 
. This vote has been triggered by May supporters who believe they have the votes to win and so protect may from future confidence votes for the next year. It's what I would do after all.
He was right about being bat-shit crazy for leaving the EU.
This is the point where we find that one of the letters came from the Right Honorable Member for Maidenhead.
Disasturbator
I looked up Maidenhead and discovered it's another word for hymen
Excuse me while I titter at this
New theme music also a box
Does Maidenhead have any meaning other than hymen?
Disasturbator
Yes,virginity too as it turns out!
New theme music also a box
So in other words the Tory rubric in elections of "If we lose Maidenhead, we are well and truly f**ked" has quite the double meaning.
(FYI they have never lost Maidenhead)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
... yes, that's what a hymen is associated with.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Dec 12th 2018 at 7:12:53 PM
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Paul Dacre left and was replaced by the person who used to run the Mail on Sunday, which supported Remain. So the Mail has moved to a Soft Brexit position and the Mail on Sunday looks like it's heading in a Brexit direction.
I don't do witchcraft. Seriously.
I don't believe May will lose this vote. The Tories are far too frightened by the idea of Corbyn in Number 10 so they'll rally round her.
Apparently, the Hard Brexiters (Mogg's lot) have been bitching about the audacity of Brady to call the vote so soon after the letters were in, which has given them absolutely no time to prepare for the vote (as in force Tories to vote their way).
As a result, it looks like it's Brady's job that's really on the line now — May will survive the vote and the Hard Brexiters will oust Brady from the 1922 Committee in revenge.
That's my guess about how things will go.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 12th 2018 at 7:32:26 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Hasn't it been described before that the Tories often use a "sacrificial Trojan Horse" for things like this? The party wants someone out, and one guy takes the fall for starting the ball rolling so they can still claim party unity?
Cynical me says that May's enemies couldn't find anyone willing to carry water for them.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Yes, a stalking horse. It looks like Mogg has been content to play that role this time, so that he can be the power behind the throne of whatever idiot decides they want to be prime minister in the current environment.
May will probably appease the back-benchers by saying she'll stand down after Brexit (which frankly she seems to already be in the position of doing anyway) to reassure the Tories that she will not lead a General Election campaign.
It has been interesting watching the SNP's reaction to this given that they were demanding Corbyn call a no-confidence vote yesterday, but today are criticising one being called by the Tories as proof that the Tories are trying to distract from Brexit.
The SNP aren't exactly covering themselves with glory here.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Um, is the Tory call for a no-confidence and Corbyn's call for a no-confidence the same thing? I was thinking that the Tory call was about an party confidence vote while Corbyn was calling a parliamentary no confidence.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Servant of the Omnissiah
Basically, the Tories want to look like they have the initiative. Corbyn or any other Opposition Leader calling for it would make the Tories look weak.
As for May not being defeated, sure looks that way. Far as the Tories are concerned, Corbyn is a much bigger threat to them than the possibility of a No-Deal Crashout, so you're spot on about that.
Skewed Priorities : The Living Example.
So the SNP isn't completely wrong about criticising the move. It's just incredibly dumb of them to do it in such a hamfisted way.
Of course, if the impossible happens and she loses the vote, the Tories are even more screwed long-term. Breaching the Maidenhead is going to be an enjoyable Double Entendre for some time if that happens.
Edited by TechPriest90 on Dec 12th 2018 at 3:24:13 PM
I hold the secrets of the machine.
Yes, they're different things. The issue isn't the type of no-confidence vote being called, it's the reason why the SNP is castigating Labour for not calling one while castigating the Tories for calling one.
Their argument against the Tories calling one is that the Tories are being self-serving by calling for one because it interferes with the ability to either carry out or oppose Brexit. They're right about that.
However, 24 hours ago, they insisted Labour immediately trigger a no-confidence vote they knew Labour couldn't win. In domestic (Scotland) terms, that would weaken[1] Labour in favour of the SNP (it would also weaken Labour nationally). However, in the process, that would strengthen May's position, rally Tories and the DUP to her side, and weaken all opposition to Brexit. In other words, it was as openly self-serving as the Tories have been today and the SNP have been damaged today because of it (which Brexit opposition can also ill-afford).
As condescending and patronising as Ed Miliband was when he told the SNP in 2015 that they didn't know how to fight Westminster battles, the past 24 hours have proven him right.
[1] YouGov research has shown that, while the SNP has an 11-point lead over Labour in Scotland, that support is driven by over-35s. Under-35s are swinging away from the SNP to support Labour. It's nowhere near as bad as the generational cliff-edge the Tories are experiencing (which is a true crisis), but it does make for uncomfortable reading, and indicates that Labour may be more of a (long-term) threat in Scotland than headline polling suggests.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 12th 2018 at 9:04:36 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
She/Her Pronouns
The Guardian is reporting that May's won the vote.
Here's the live blog on the topic.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Dec 12th 2018 at 4:05:26 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Quelle surprise.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Saw a breaking news notification from Reuters too.
So this farce stumbles predictably into another day bristling with extra-custardy sherry trifles and inexplicable hedges in inconveniently convenient places...
Edited by Euodiachloris on Dec 12th 2018 at 9:12:45 AM
BBC is calling it, too. They're also quoting JRM who is still calling for her to 'consider her position':
While he accepts the PM won, he says the fact the vast majority of backbenchers who are not in government did not back her is damning.
"She clearly does not have the confidence of the House of Commons and should make way for someone who does."
For the record, there are 317 Conservatives. May received support from 200 in the vote, leaving 117 who did not vote to support her. Also, this happened, according to the Guardian:
Tories reinstate MPs suspended over sex allegations for confidence vote
Andrew Griffiths, the prime minister’s former chief of staff and the MP for Burton and Uttoxeter, and Charlie Elphicke, a Brexiter and the MP for Dover and Deal, were both registered on Wednesday as eligible voters, party sources confirmed.
Griffiths, 48, resigned as a minister in July and suspended from the whip after sending hundreds of sexually explicit messages to two women in his constituency. He was also accused of bullying a council leader for several years when May took office in July 2016.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 12th 2018 at 9:18:14 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Good result. No chance of a psychopath like Rees-Mogg getting in, the Tories can't run down the clock with a leadership election, and 117 against - over a third of the party - opens up some really interesting options for the opposition in getting their VONC passed and kicking off a general election. The Tories have a very narrow parliamentary majority - if even a few of those 117 are persuadable, the government is in deep shit.
What's precedent ever done for us?
Figure of Hourai
Oh? That's news to me. The most fervent SNP supporters I met have been university students.
Avatar Source
The BBC is reporting that the Pound has dropped in response to the outcome being called.
But there was a reason for why the vote was scheduled and concluded — they wanted the stock market closed when it happened.
I'll try and find the study. Like I said, there's no cliff-edge, nothing like the Tories are experiencing. It's uncomfortable reading but not a haemorrhage. There are plenty of SNP supporters who are under-35, they're just not the majority any more.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 12th 2018 at 9:21:23 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Servant of the Omnissiah
Well, she predicted that maybe about 60-80 MPs would vote against. In reality, 117 voted against.
@Iaculus is right. If that VoNoCo comes through next week and about 10 MPs vote no with the Opposition, the Tories are in deep shit.
Edited by TechPriest90 on Dec 12th 2018 at 4:57:24 AM
I hold the secrets of the machine.
Sadly John Oliver was wrong, but this might be the right moment to remember this song and follow the advice.