This thread exists to discuss British politics.
Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.
- There is a dedicated thread to discuss LGBTQ+ rights in the United Kingdom. That doesn't mean it's always off-topic here, but unless something's directly linked to political events, that's probably a better thread for it.
- There's also a separate thread to talk about your favourite British Prime Ministers.
Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Source?
Dinosaur Supervisor
I'm seeing it on the BBC right now. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45897253
Edited by HamsterKing on Oct 18th 2018 at 6:10:56 PM
Still following the live ticker of the Guardian. Merkel has started to talk in public about no deal measures - to be clear, she is now talking about it, they have worked on this for quite a while already, just in case.
Edited by Swanpride on Oct 18th 2018 at 10:10:18 AM
If nothing else this summit should provide the incentive for someone to go change the locks at 10 Downing Street.
May has spectacularly alienated all the factions in her party over the last two days. ERG are furious over the proposed extension to the transition (something which is still meaningless without a deal of some sort) whereas remainers are mildly aggrieved (which is equivalent to ERG fury) over the suggestion that the meaningful vote cannot be ammended, making it also meaningless.
She can't lead the party anymore. Someone needs to take over, and at this point I don't care who. Even if it was Boris we'd at least get clarity over what is going to happen. (Clue: as a lover of pseudo-latin farce Boris will be re-enacting Nero's fiddle playing whilst the country burns in the fires of no deal Brexit)
It's said that the certainty of misery is better than the misery of uncertainty. That's kind of the position I am in right now.
I above hope that the march on Saturday will be a huge success.
I fear it'll be under-reported and, ultimately, go nowhere as various members of the establishment try to continue sticking their heads in the sand.
Figure of Hourai
I don't know, incompetence would be better than one of the vultures who stands to profit from everything going as wrong as possible.
Avatar Source
Personally I think ascribing any sort of competence for governing in the real world is giving the vultures too much credit.
I don't want to leave the EU. Since the will of the people must be obeyed, I'd like my second choice of staying in the custom union. Now that appears to be sailing into the distance I'm left with my final choice: seeing those that led us over the cliff having to actually deal with the consequences.
Basically, if No Deal is the outcome I would much rather have PM BoJo signing the death warrant than a scapegoated Theresa May.
Edited by singularityshot on Oct 18th 2018 at 7:49:54 PM
Tief girl with eartude
Corbyn calls for support for reforms to the Gender Recognition Act (GRA).
Figure of Hourai
Oh, the vultures would be perfectly competent at getting what they want. Which is worse than mere incompetence at trying to negotiate.
From five days ago:
The number of applications is “down on previous years across the board”, the prime minister has been warned – even as the turmoil at Westminster cuts the odds on a snap poll.
Some branches in target seats have been forced to postpone decisions, despite pressure to get candidates in place early, the executive editor of the Conservative Home website said.
In that I have no doubt. Case in point is JRM's Irish investment fund, John Redwood advising investors to get out of the UK etc.
But all that is best done in the shadows. JRM can't run his investment fund and run the country. I view it the same way you view any criminal enterprise. Expose and remove the patsies, you force the lieutenants into the open. Once they are in the open, you can expose and remove the lieutenants forcing the kingpins into the open. In this metaphor May is the patsy, JRM is a lieutenant and others behind him are the kingpins.
It's just a shame that it is the UK's collective prosperity that is the collateral damage in this takedown. And by collateral damage I mean the thousands, millions possibly who will be reduced to poverty, who may made redundant, who may see their communities shattered. Who may even have their lives shortened as a result of this disaster.
As I said, I don't want this to happen. But perhaps I am feeling a little despondent about the current state of play and critically I don't see how our political institutions can rescue the current situation. The very structure and foundation of our democracy was not built for the situation we find ourselves in right now. Parliament does not have the tools or capacity to handle Brexit. They talk about fulfilling the will of the people whilst blithely ignoring the 48% who wanted to remain, and that's not factoring those that didn't vote.
This post has gone on long enough and turned into a rant. But I will say this. A new referendum won't solve the problem. Nor will a General Election. We need to think bigger. Democracy can solve the problem - we just need to think outside of the box we call Parliament.
Edited by singularityshot on Oct 18th 2018 at 10:26:55 AM
I think you are putting a voice to the wider grief from the moderates among us. This whole thing has rather revealed that the man behind the curtain really is an immoral charlatan. And that politicians really have no competence.
The state carries on via momentum of years not by any real grand direction or guiding hand. And I think seeing it in action is what's scaring a lot of people AND bringing out the gleeful idiots who would rather see things burn for "patriotism".
With all the crazy going on - everything seems to be falling apart:
UK Recycling industry embroiled in a corruption fracas:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/18/uk-recycling-industry-under-investigation-for-and-corruption
BSE found in a farm in Aberdeenshire:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-45901043
And the Carrillion investigation was obstructed by Civil servants:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/19/civil-servants-acted-to-stop-watchdogs-checks-on-carillion-projects
Just reinforces the feeling it was all a genteel facade.
Oh, bother.
Feels rather like opening your fridge for a snack only to realize just how long it's been since you cleaned it out. And there's something writhing in it.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Rt Hon Sir Nick Clegg is to be Facebook's Head of Global Affairs [1].
Disasturbator
OK,but why Nick Cleg of all people?
New theme music also a box
A procrastination in of itself
I’m more surprised that he got a knighthood when I wasn’t looking.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
The Best Worst Psychonaut
It's been a while since I checked in here last, but just to make sure I've got a handle on this; would it be accurate to sum up this whole Brexit situation as the current British government wanting to have their cake and eat it too, and getting incensed when the EU insists that it doesn't work that way?
'Okay, we'd like to keep all the benefits of being in the EU, we just don't want to have to pay you a penny, and we don't want any immigrants coming in - but Brits going out on holiday is a-okay'.
Something like that? :V
"If you think like a child, you will do a child's work."
Figure of Hourai
At the most charitable, it's because they put someone in charge that didn't actually want to leave in the first place, and a large part of that party would probably relocate to the centre of the Atlantic if it was possible, pushing for a harder Brexit.
Or, we have an incompetent negotiator that doesn't want to alienate their own party even though there's more than enough support in the other parties to ignore them.
Avatar Source
Oh, bother.
Given what I've heard of Theresa May and her stint as Home Secretary, I don't think we should be feeling charitable towards her at all.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Figure of Hourai
In her case, I think the Brexit fuckups are more due to incompetence than malice, though.
Avatar Source
Oh, bother.
I think there's plenty of both.
Edited by M84 on Oct 20th 2018 at 1:10:42 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
The thing everyone has to remember is that political leaders are often defined by how they got to their position. Let's go through a few recent examples.
Brown was defined by the fact he apparently secured power through a grubby little deal with Blair when they both burst onto the scene in the 90's. He therefore never earned his own mandate, and the press crucified him by accusing him of chickening out of a snap election. (I bet May didn't want to make the same mistake: all she did was prove Brown to be right all along).
Ed Milliband never recovered from apparently shiving his brother in the back. From then on the die was cast: always seen as slightly untrustworthy and perhaps a little too earnest.
DC of course was a reaction to the creature of the night that is Michael Howard. Every inch the PR man nothing said style over substance than DC.
Corbyn won of course notionally against the odds. Actually the difficult bit was getting on the ballot. After that the members carried him to power. And so it has remained - Jez and the rest of his MPs in some sort of uneasy truce as the MPs agree to the Corbyn experiment. As a result, I get the feeling that most people get the impression that everything that Corbyn says or does is an extension of the experiment. It's not something that is the foundation of a new political era i.e. the experiment can be ended at any time.
And so onto May. Thinking on it, the unluckiest thing to befall May was the fact that she was the last woman standing. This has hurt her twofold:
- She was never able to get the nod from the members, who are statistically more likely to be pro Brexit than the general population. So I don't think they have ever accepted her as their leader, giving plenty of room for others to ferment dissent. If for example it had gone to the members as Boris vs May then at least that discussion could have been settled. As it is Boris has been able to regain his favourite role as the Prince over the Water, leaving May unable to respond.
- The nature of her coronation was that she was often described as being "the only adult left standing in the room... ...cleaning up after the mess of the Referendum." So in other words she has to tidy up after everyone else whilst the rest of her political rivals can behave like toddlers.
So...who will go to the march? Anyone here ready to post impressions?
So...looks like there won't be any summit in November. Which basically means: The EU members will focus on preparing for a no deal scenario, but they leave the door open just in case that the UK comes to its senses.