The Death Penalty

@pvtnum: That's why I prefaced it with "If I ran the zoo..."

But seriously: yes, it would take a painful transition and probably would be difficult. Some of it wouldn't be hard to implement (like corporal punishment replacing jail sentences for small-time shit), and I still think would be a good idea.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

I got a long list of "if I was in charge of crap" things, too.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

@Thorn: Denying somebody luxuries doesn't give them PTSD. 43 million Americans can't afford cable television, access to weight lifting equipment, and roleplaying games, much less decent housing and food. Why should we be treating criminals better by giving them luxuries?

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Those 43 million Americans don't have people looking at them sleep, severe restrictions on their movement or get subjected to treatment meant to humiliate them

Also saying that someone else is worse off is the worst argument ever. The solution then is to try and improve conditions for those people, not use it to excuse making the lives of others a living hell.

(Also I'm gonna cut here, I think we are getting off topic)

edited 25th Feb '11 6:04:37 PM by Thorn14

@Thorn: Have we become so entitled as to think that disallowing luxuries makes somebody's life a living hell? We're not talking about beating our inmates, or stripping them of things like food or clothing.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

It isn't when one group has actually done something to deserve it and the other is just trying to get by.

And I've actually been to jail (youthful indiscretion, long story) and I can tell you that the worst problem is overcrowding. Bar none, it is why prisoners are treated so terribly, both by the system and each other. Making prison a bad place to go while simultaneously making sure that only those who need to be locked away are sounds like a good idea to me.

You're getting hung up on one detail of my suggestion, without reading the rest of it. Sure, jail wouldn't be nice to go to...but you'd only end up there for violent crimes (and violent people should at the least be kept separate from society) or repeated offenses (which pretty much proves you aren't interested in being rehabilitated and as such just need to be locked away).

Why is this a bad idea?

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Saying someone is worse off and needs more attention is also a valid argument when dealing with matters of resources and budget — it's actually kind of the point. It's only invalid in matters of non-scarcity.

edited 25th Feb '11 6:18:42 PM by Pykrete

If the cost is the matter, you might consider reducing the length of prison sentences for petty crimes and abolishing ridiculous laws such as three strike rules

I think we can all agree with that.

I agree, crowding IS the main problem with jails.

These things are not luxuries. They're tools for relaxation which is a vital psychological need. Removing them will stress people out immensely, which will lead to more unrest and violence in prisons and in turns harsher measures to maintain order, which is part of what makes prison life a living hell.

(And taking a break. I can get where you're coming from, but maybe we would have less crime if we weren't so revenge heavy? Even if its hard to do.)

edited 25th Feb '11 6:16:17 PM by Thorn14

@Thorn: Jesus christ man. If you're going to argue with someone, at least read their fucking argument first. We covered that.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

And what exactly did I not mention?

Under Drunkscriblerian's proposed system, the only people that would be going to jail in the first place would be violent offenders and repeat offenders. The people that deserve to be punished.

They certainly don't deserve anything more than three square meals, clothing, and shelter, and since there would be less of them, there would be less chance for violence in prison.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

"Denying somebody luxuries doesn't give them PTSD. 43 million Americans can't afford cable television, access to weight lifting equipment, and roleplaying games, much less decent housing and food. Why should we be treating criminals better by giving them luxuries?"

Yeah, it's not like that's the real issue here. And if you think being in a U.S. prison is jolly fun time, well I don't...

"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom

Give them a belt and five minutes of no supervision and problem solved!  ^*

^{unless they're Mac Guyver, in which case you just facilitated their escape.}

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

I think we should get rid of the death penalty for the sole purpose of saving money and relieving the court system of these cases.

My other signature is a Gundam.

@Drunk: Won't taking away conjugals make prisoners more likely to rape their cellmates? If you're talking expediency, I'm not sure that's a swell idea.

Enjoy the Inferno...

...NO. That's like blowing up your own car just because gas prices are too high.

The problem is court processes and crap to sentence a criminal to death are too damn expensive. But have you ever thought about WHY they're so damn expensive? Why are we giving them so much money?

Judges and lawyers  ^*

need to eat, yes, but the amount of money them and others involved are WAY TOO RIDICULOUSLY HIGH.

---

Also, some idiots decided it was a good idea to give criminals, deathrow criminals, healthcare, more than enough food, televisions, and other toys.

There's a ****ING BASKETBALL COURT AND BASKETBALL IN PRISON!!!◊

Here's a TENNIS COURT in prison.◊

THIS is the kind of stuff criminals eat for FREE...they're not the best, but that's way too much for people like them.◊

Oh yes, this will punish them! Let's pay for their shelter, food, entertainment, and healthcare with our tax dollars! That'll show em! We are not idiots at all! All of these luxuries are making their prison time even more painful!

edited 25th Feb '11 10:42:39 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

"way too much for people like them"

...You seem to be angry about something.

"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom

I usually post in first page of threads like these.

And this is the one issue that separates me from Liberals.

Also...

I PRISON BASKETBALL COURT!??! THIS IS PRISON!! THEY'RE IN PRISON FOR A REASON. WHO THE **** PAYS FOR THESE?!!?◊

Someone needs to get tazed in the face for wasting money.

edited 25th Feb '11 10:58:34 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Keep in mind that giving prisoners a few entertainment outlets is a great way to keep tensions down in the prisons. Take away every single thing that can be viewed as a luxury in some vain attempt at making prison an even more tortuous experience would primarily only serve to create powder-keg situations.

Basketball courts are a small price to pay for less prison riots. I would venture to say that the cost of even the best prison basketball court wouldn't even come close to the cost of quelling and clean-up of a full-scale riot, not even counting the human cost of lives lost by both prisoners and guards.

Not only that, but the majority of prisoners do get released back into society at some point... intentionally putting them through hell without any form of relief is not a good means of rehabilitation.

edited 25th Feb '11 10:59:38 PM by Meeble

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Look, if those morons decided to riot, just send in riot troops or something to quell them down, shoot the ones dumb enough to go after the guard's life. Douse the place with gas.

If they're going to get released, and they STILL decided to start a riot, we don't really want someone like that back into society anyways. I hear a bullet is cheaper than lethal injections.

edited 25th Feb '11 11:02:40 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

You know, Signed, not everybody in these places is a rapist or a murderer who deserves to be treated as subhuman.

Have you missed the part where prisoners get released from jail and hopefully will not have become horrible twisted bitter people who hate society?

edited 25th Feb '11 11:02:37 PM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

So it's worth it to you to put at risk the lives of who knows how many guards, un-involved prisoners, and civilians in the case of a successful break-out just to satisfy your vindictive feelings?

And once again, riots cost us a shit ton of money. Much much more than a basketball court.

edited 25th Feb '11 11:04:12 PM by Meeble

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How about not committing a crime in the first place?

And if they did, they oughta get punished for it and be good little boys and wait until they get released.

If they're going to get released, and they start a riot anyways, then they're not worth giving a second chance.

---

^ Increase security, and stop giving them so much free time to roam around. And execute the ones who committed murder and rape. Keeping them there for life is expensive, and a spit on the face for tax payers and their victims.

THIS is the last thing we need to give them.◊

edited 25th Feb '11 11:08:58 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

So what about the prisoners who stayed in their cells and didn't participate in the riot while the whole place gets gassed to quell it?

I'm still not sure what exactly we would be trading both the monetary and human cost for in your scenario here. I don't see what society has to gain in a world where "more riots are ok, as long as we make sure prisoners have less fun!"

But, this is off-topic, so I won't pursue it any further.

edited 25th Feb '11 11:09:29 PM by Meeble

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