General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

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If we have characters being grouped by Sonic/Tails/Knuckles equivalencies, I'd have Silver play Tails to Sonic!Shadow and Knuckles!Rouge, and Blaze play Knuckles to Sonic!Amy and Tails!Cream.

Rouge playing like Tails and Omega like Knuckles never clicked with me.

"Ghost" and "Imaginary" stats? What even are those? I've never heard of them, and they're not listed in the Chao Editor.

Edited by Primis on Nov 27th 2018 at 9:48:55 AM

According to the "Sonic News Network", they're stats introduced in Sonic Adventure 2 and are presented as Black and Gold bars respectively. Made a screenshot of it- [1]

Even if I agreed with that idea, Omega has long been established as a consistent member of Team Dark and direct ally of Shadow and Rouge. More than a few fans would be annoyed at the least for Omega to be replaced by Silver of all characters, especially since Omega already doesn't get to make many appearances. It'd be like the backlash for the Chao taking Cream's place in Team Rose for Team Sonic Racing, but much more vocal

Granted, I'm one of the people who thinks Big should be replaced by a female character for Team Rose, but that's only because Big's character is incompatible with the team. Team Rose is the "girl group" of the franchise, they're whole deal is that they are a female-centric team with overtly feminine themes/interests in an otherwise male/masculine dominant cast. A blatantly male character who's defined for being a fisherman, one of the most masculine interests in the world, doesn't gel with that (even if Big is arguably more feminine than masculine).

Conversely, Team Dark is defined as the "anti-hero team" and each member suits that description: Shadow, who is essentially "Mewtwo" in terms of backstory and personality. Rouge, who is meant to be the "Catwoman" of the franchise while also doubling as a spy for a morally ambiguous government. And Omega, a revenge-driven walking arsenal of a robot who is only remotely a "hero" because all of his weapons are pointed at the franchise's main villain. Silver, on the other hand, doesn't fit with Team Dark's theme quite as well; he's a teenager from a ruined future who returns to the past to repair it, not just for himself but for everyone living in it. Silver is consistently characterized as a nice and friendly guy who is determined to stop evil, but has his limits. Sure, his debut game saw him trying to kill Sonic, but he sincerely thought Sonic was an evil person out to destroy the world, and became seriously conflicted about that objective after Amy called him out on his first killing attempt. A dark, morally ambiguous character he is not

Edited by KaoticKanine on Nov 27th 2018 at 12:56:59 PM

Blaze could replace Big.

All cats are basically the same, right?

Also people actually like Blaze.

Team Rose easily could replace Big with Blaze yeah.

I remember way back in the day when I was a Sonic X fan I always wished for them to put Cosmo in the games as the reluctant power member of Team Rose.

I don't like Blaze *Equips Flame Shield*

But I don't object to her taking Big's spot in Team Rose since she is a girl, and can fulfill the niche of being the "Tomboy" of the group (with Cream being the Girly Girl and Amy a mix of the two). Helps that she does have an established relationship/dynamic with Cream, and people find great potential in Blaze's relationship with Amy, to say the least (as much as I find Blaze and Cream's friendship to be horribly overrated, and despise the Blazamy pairing with an absolute passion)

Of course, I'd rather Blaze form a team with Marine and Silver (yes, Marine hasn't been relevant past her debut, but she's an effective foil to both Blaze and Silver, and the ending of Rush Adventure reveals she has an ability powerful enough to stun the final boss) and Sticks take Big's spot in Team Rose since she has a close association with Amy, has a great potential dynamic with Cream, and has effectively been accepted by Sonic Team (Cosmo would've been awesome too, though)

Edited by KaoticKanine on Nov 27th 2018 at 1:59:54 PM

Oh, those. I don't think those are separate stats. They're just bonus animals to go along with the "Hero" and "Dark" theme that SA2 had going on. They don't generate anything unique.

Ah! Thanks for that clarity. I never got to play the Chao Garden in Adventure 2, and the writer of that piece didn't make that bit obvious. So then, it's just what a Hero, Neutral and Dark Chao would add to traditional gameplay to figure out lol

TBH I found Silver and Shadow to have nice chemistry with each other. And I really like Omega, but, yeah, gameplay-wise it fucks Rouge over her niche.

Also, I wonder if Gemerl and Chaos Gamma are still around. A trio of renegade Eggman creations could be fun...

Blaze would have to be the Speed character of her trio, there's no way she'd fit as the Power character.

This is when grouping characters into trios becomes problematic :V

She's always come across as more of a Lightning Bruiser to Sonic's Glass Cannon, in so much as there can be consistency to what Sonic can do.

She's always come across for trading some raw speed for more maneuverability, which would fit perfectly within the speed archetype.

Amy Rose could fit the Power class well enough, although admittedly it would still be a little weird. If not Amy, then Silver could fill the Power or Fly role too (maybe even both, if you want to get crazy!)

Would Marine fit as a power character? I know she did that weird energy blast thing once in the Rush games but her abilities are undefined.

Re: Sonic and Dante. I can imagine they wouldn’t be fast friends because they’re too much alike. Kind of like how Bugs Bunny tends to clash with other screwy squirrel characters.

Edited by windleopard on Nov 28th 2018 at 12:48:48 PM

In runners, Blaze is actually a power character (and part of team rose as well)

Blaze and Silver by that categorization are pretty hard to pin down as their abilities are not really standard.

Silver is a telekinetic and Blaze is a pyrokinetic. Blaze could either be power or speed and Silver could be all 3 possibly as he can fly, can be just as fast as Sonic and Shadow, and he's a powerful telekinetic.

Blaze's powerset has always involved her moving fast (compared to most other characters, I think we can agree that Sonic, Shadow, and probably Metal Sonic are the crowned trio in terms of fastest) or moving in the air real good

Meanwhile Amy's got a hammer. I really disagree with Runners over which one of them would be the Speed character of the trio.

(As an aside, while I know Silver's been fast in the Rivals games, the thing he's really known for is tossing things around with his powers, he would easily fit as the Power character the most naturally).

Thing about Amy though is that, while she has that hammer, she has also been presented been presented with acrobatic capability in her few playable appearances. Adventure 1 and Advance 1 has her using her hammer like an improvised pole vault, Sonic Boom (as much as I find that iteration of Amy overrated) had Amy being able to triple jump and be the only character who can walk on 'balance beams', and logically you'd need a lot of agility to swing that hammer around in the air with as much gracefulness as Amy showcases

And regardless of that, Amy had been defined as a "Speed Type" since Adventure 2, being chosen to race against the likes of Sonic, Shadow, and Metal Sonic. And for all my disdain of how most of these particular moments were executed, Amy's chases with Sonic demonstrate that she can keep up with the guy (assuming Sonic wasn't deliberately slowing down to tease her or something, which many would argue ain't the case). So Speed Type still makes good sense for Amy, while Blaze can function perfectly well as a Power Type since, well, fire (or more accurately, the heat it produces) is freaking powerful! Fires can destroy even the mightiest of buildings, and I don't think I need to bring up the disaster that has been afflicting a certain US state lately. Pyrokinesis, especially of Blaze's level, at least offers just as much, if not more, destructive capability than a hammer

Overall though, I think it's a matter of both Amy and Blaze being Lightning Bruisers in terms of capability; Amy is able to run fast and hit hard via hammer, while Blaze's pyrokinesis enables her to jet at extreme speeds and incinerate the opposition with overwhelming heat. So I think it would be fair to say that they could both be Speed and Power Types

Admittedly, I've always had this little idea for potential gameplay of certain characters being capable of "switching" between certain Types if they qualify. In this case, if one desires, they can play Amy as a Speed Type, specializing in her acrobatic side with increased running speed, or as a Power Type, in which Amy's gameplay changes to focus on her hammer and strong side. Likewise, Speed Type Blaze would be how she was in Rush; an extra maneuverable Sonic with access to the Boost. While a Power Type Blaze trades in that speed for destructive firepower, destroying even the most durable of obstacles with solar levels of heat. Certainly adds some flexibility to the whole "Types Mechanic"

Yeesh, I keep making overly big posts >.< Perhaps I should start writing in a small font size

Edited by KaoticKanine on Nov 28th 2018 at 9:06:05 AM

You mean like a stance system? That's actually not a bad idea.

I kinda find the speed-power-flying system kinda pointless, at least the speed and power thing, since a lot of characters are both strong and fast (Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Blaze, Knuckles and many more), flying is the only one which feels unique to certain characters (also a lot of flying characters qualify as strong as well, since they have to lift both of their partners)

Yeah, I was actually thinking about how the 'stance change' idea wouldn't actually work out too well, since theoretically every character except the most specialized could be Speed and/or Power

Shadow's Chaos Powers lend himself to Power, as well as his debut game showing he can casually flip over a bus. Rouge could easily be a Speed Type in addition to Flying since she's athletic and, being both a spy and a thief, would have all the skills of your average rogue. And even Sonic can easily become a Power Type since Super-Speed has a lot more destructive potential than people realize, as the Boost games demonstrate (and one who runs at the speed of sound needs an absurd amount of durability just to not turn to jelly). So, at the end of the day, the Type System only forces characters into specific specializations and only gets broken when a character who doesn't readily fit into the system is introduced

Although, I think I indirectly created a compromise to the Type System when planning out my idea for a Sonic fangame lol Wherein the Types doesn't necessarily denote a character's abilities but: how easily they can defeat enemies, and how they play in levels. I would explain in further detail, but that would make this post massively long, and I'm already guilty of doing that one too many times lol

And then there's the issue of super forms which just throw stats off the charts.

Still baffled why Amy's never gotten a super form, and that this rate likely never will. Compared to the other hedgehogs she zig-zags between being more proactive compared to other side characters and standing around to let Sonic do the work. But for the most part, when she's playable she can keep up and dish out with the best of them.

Also that in Heroes she gets the unique hover ability with her hammer.

You kind of answered your own question; she isn't considered important enough to have a super form.

Hell, I read they retconned it so that Super Knuckles and Super Tails weren't super forms.