Spider-Man General Discussion

Well Pietro had a tendency to fly off the handle whenever someo e showed romantic interest in Wanda.

wasn't that more of a my sister is off limits than actual incest?

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

I did say it was incest subtext. Even then, the guy really took it too far, especially since Wanda was an adult and old enough to make her own decisions.

Yeah, that was more "That's my sister, you creep" and less, well, incest. Although, yes, Pietro did take it too far, because Pietro always takes it too far — he is a complete and total jackass.

By the way, here is Magneto making the Scarlet Witch dance for him.

Edited by alliterator on Feb 23rd 2019 at 1:12:43 AM

All of a sudden Millar's take doesn't seem so unusual now does it?

Spider-Man/Deadpool is being cancelled

Eh, it had a good, long run. I believe it's ending with issue #50, right?

Marvel's in trouble if if something like Spider-Man and Deadpool is being cancelled. Can someone recap the cancellation onslaught(heh) that's affecting Marvel? first RYV now this.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 23rd 2019 at 1:43:30 AM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Marvel isn't really having a "cancellation onslaught." Certain titles have come to an end (like Exiles with #12), but Marvel tends to hedge its bets by greenlighting mini-series these days instead of full on-going books, especially mini-series that can launch off of a popular movie (see: Shuri and Killmonger). If the mini-series does good enough, it could become an ongoing, but if it doesn't sell, Marvel will often wait to see if it sells well in trades (like Unstoppable Wasp and Iceman did, which is why they were brought back as minis).

I'm willing to bet that Marvel saw that sales for Spider-Man/Deadpool were slipping and it wasn't selling well in trades anymore, so they decided to end it with issue #50. There are certain other books that sell less, but do very well with trades, like Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, so Marvel keeps publishing them.

Aside from Exiles and Spider-Man/Deadpool, however, I can't remember what else Marvel has cancelled.

It's also possible that they only want a certain number of "Spider" books out there, so with Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, they wanted to end Spider-Man/Deadpool. Or Robbie Thompson decided to leave and they didn't want to replace him. It could be any number of reasons. But I really haven't seen any sort of "onslaught" lately. (Renew Your Vows was cancelled, like, last year, pre-Spider-Geddon.)

Edited by alliterator on Feb 23rd 2019 at 2:04:44 AM

Renew Your Vows owed part of its reason for existence for the fact that MJ and Peter weren't together in 616. Now that they are back in Spencer's run, a good chunk of the main reason for people to read them isn't there. In the case of Spider-Man/Deadpool. 50 issues is quite an achievement for such a series. It's the longest team-up book Spider-Man has had with any single hero.

And it's also a case of wanting to bring new talent and others in and do their series, and move to a new Post-Slott era with new titles and voices. It's not like we have a shortage of Spider-Man stories in the coming months.

Hope you two are right.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

You also have to understand that Marvel is now introducing a lot of mini-series, probably as a way to see what people like. Age of X-Men has a ton of mini-series, while the upcoming War of the Realms crossover will also result in a bunch of short mini-series.

And Marvel has been crossing over Deadpool with lots of characters, just lately doing Black Panther/Deadpool mini-series. So I honestly doubt this is the last of Spider-Man/Deadpool, although we might see it in a different form. Perhaps an OGN?

Black Panther/Deadpool feels random. I mean Deadpool and Spidey are both jokesters and Deadpool has a similar costume, but Deadpool and T'Challa feel too apart.

It's a fact that historically ASM has ruled the roost in Spider-Man titles. Other titles do well eventually but they exist more to cater for demand than them being best-sellers. It's very hard for sub-Spider-Man titles to sell well. There are exceptions. Like Renew Your Vows #14 actually outsold the ASM titles that month, and USM outsold Amazing in its early years.

So it's a miracle that RYV lasted so long, as did Spider-Man/Deadpool.

West Coast Avengers was also cancelled, which sucks (they just introduced Jeff the Baby Landshark!), but I suspect it was because it wasn't selling well (probably below 15k) and Marvel also wanted to make room for more War of the Realms tie-ins.

Luckily, Kelly Thompson still has Captain Marvel (which debuted at #2 of the Top Ten) and Mr. and Mrs. X (which is amazing).

Back on topic: Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man and Miles Morales: Spider-Man are apparently doing really well, too, topping the "Advanced Reorder" list, alongside Captain Marvel.

WCA got cancelled? Whaaat?! How am I just hearing this; I loved it!

Eh, I enjoyed Spider-Man/Deadpool (well, what I've read; I'm behind on everything) but I feel like it's not a massive loss. The concept is quite used up at this point and it's not like either is hurting for appearances.

That's probably what Marvel's publishers/editors thought. And it's kind of debatable how much Spider-Man/Deadpool is in continuity anyway. It feels like it's a separate thing.

It's also weird because you compare that to Spider-Man/Human Torch, at the end of that series, Peter and Johnny Storm became closer than ever, with Johnny Storm becoming maybe Peter's closest male friend, closer to him than Flash Thompson and Harry Osborn was. Since after all, Peter never shared his identity with those two. But you don't get a sense of Spider-Man and Deadpool becoming friends or getting anywhere there. And Deadpool given the nature of his character (he's closer to Howard the Duck with his fourth wall breaks and so on), is not really a traditional character anyway.

Coming from the Batman forums, i'm shocked that Spider-Man hasn't had his no kill rule debated more, his villains are FAR more dangerous than Batman villains, Doc Ock has threatened the lives of millions and has nearly caused the apocalypse, Green Goblin needs no introduction. Electro is a walking hazard, Sandman is a disaster waiting to happen.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Spider-Man's villains are potentially destructive, Batman's villains are actually destructive. Like Joker alone has killed more people than all of Spider-Man's rogues combined. Carnage, Venom and Green Goblin are the most murderous villains, and between them Venom and Carnage probably killed more than a hundred each, while Green Goblin as murderous as he is, is personally responsible for the deaths of little less than a hundred which is a lot but it isn't compared to Joker. As Thunderbolts and Head of Hammer where as a government operative, Osborn ordered deaths and so on. Dr. Octopus maybe around fifty. But all that is still less than Joker. And that's just Joker, you also have Penguin who is a violent mobster, Zsasz who is a Serial Killer with scars across his body to the point that his skin is totally covered in marks, Firefly who is a murderous arsonist, Killer Croc who is a cannibal, Black Mask who tortures and murders, Mad Hatter also kills people. Heck Poison Ivy ironically for being an environmentalist Misanthrope Supreme, probably has killed fewer people than the rest. And you have the immortal cult leader Ra's Al Ghul who was a warrior and soldier and assassin for centuries, so he's probably got a large body count as well. In the Marvel Universe, Bullseye is the most murderous of all street-level villains, so you need to ask why Daredevil doesn't kill him. Frank Miller's last Daredevil issue on his run actually addressed that.

More than that, Spider-Man is poor in his civilian identity and has weak resources and bad PR, meaning if he starts killing and outright doing criminal stuff, society and loved ones and others will bail out on him. Whereas Batman is a Death Seeker dedicated to die fighting crime, alienates everyone around him, and is rich, so even if he starts killing people, he has resources to face no legal consequences, especially since he's got the Police Commissioner in his pocket. Whereas Spider-Man has none of that. Likewise, Norman Osborn, Carnage, Venom are basically immortals who can heal themselves, Osborn also has money and influence, he's got a Healing Factor that allowed him to dodge death once. Spider-Man is not far more powerful and resourceful than his enemies. He has stuff to lose. Whereas Batman is overly advantaged.

On a character level, I can buy that Batman is capable of killing people. I can't buy Spider-Man doing that. The guy who never forgave himself for letting Uncle Ben die who holds his own inaction responsible for his Uncle's death rather than the Burglar pulling the trigger is just incapable of taking a life. No one with that much guilt, introspection, and self-judgment and self-pity would muster the capacity to consciously kill someone. He might do it as in Dan Slott's Renew Your Vows where Peter does kill enemies to protect his wife and daughter. That he might do but not in regular continuity.

And on a Watsonian perspective, you already have The Punisher existing in the MU to deal with that kind of story and so on, doing it with Spider-Man, will make Peter into the Punisher.

Wasn't there like an issue of Spider-Man where Fusion murdered 200 people? I also recall during a story where during a fight with Electro, the fight blew up cars with children inside. I'm pretty sure Doc Ock has killed people at least above 100, and he had possession of nuclear weapons, like during that Story arc where he became afraid of Spider-Man, he almost blew up the city. Or hell even in the prelude to George Stacy's death, those rampaging tentacles must have killed dozens of people, and again Doc Ock's plan to kill off the planet out-scopes anything a Batman villain could ever dream off. And every time Sandman becomes the giant version of himself, how many people have died from that?

Also in regards to Bats, if he did kill, Gordon would willingly hunt him down, and i genuinely believe that Batman would turn himself in if he did snap, like Superman imagines in the Injustice comics.

But back on topic, my guess is that the writers don't bring it up as much as Batman writers do is because Spider-Man is a generally more lighthearted series than Batman.

EDIT: i'm also pretty sure Carnage has a bigger body count than the Joker considering the differences in their methods.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 23rd 2019 at 6:07:06 AM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Maybe Joker having a four figure kill count is a terrible terrible writing mistake that should never have been made, an unhealthy game of oneupmanship to make each big Joker story bigger than the last

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Joker's main methods are explosives and chemical weapons, specifically gas and that's more destructive than Carnage who mostly stabs people with his red tentacles. Gas is more deadly than knives.

But usually, Batman does stop most of the Joker's poison bombs and such, contrary to what most people believe. Carnage is pretty creative with his symbiote's powers all things considered. like he can impale multiple people with tendrils, can shoot projectiles, and his axe arms are pretty fast. like disordered minds notes as non-canon as it is, Joker's methods are slow and gives Batman time to stop him, while Carnage prefers as much death as possible. Usually Spider-Man needs Venoms help to even have a chance at stopping Carnage. Plus Look at Maximuim Carnage(which coincidentally or not is one of the few Spider-Man stories to deal with thou shall kill along with Superior.) Carnage must have a kill count in the high 4 digits at least.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Also agreed, Joker has been basically kicked upstairs as a character.

So in other topics, what's the current status of Wraith in the comics?

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Here's the thing, though: Spider-Man doesn't have a no-killing rule. True, he prefers not to kill, but if he has absolutely no choice, he will do it. After all, he killed Morlun twice.

Edited by alliterator on Feb 23rd 2019 at 7:34:35 AM