Star Trek

Best TOTP ever?

I tried to get into TNG a while ago, but consensus is that the first couple of seasons aren't very good. Do you think I ought to suck it up and watch it all in order, or start when Riker grows his beard?

I've never seen TOS, and I saw about one episode of Enterprise, a couple of DS 9 (which I think probably needs to be watched from the start), and a fair amount of Voyager, mainly because, like apparently everyone else, I really like the Doctor. In fact, I skipped most of the episodes where he doesn't play a major role.

My personal opinion is that Riker grows his beard way before the series gets good.

There are certainly good episodes before then (some of which you'd definitely want to watch for continuity reasons) but IMO the series becomes consistently worth watching starting with "The Defector" (3x10) (which, coincidentally? is also the first episode that aired in The '90s).

Early TNG is So Okay, It's Average at best. Just watched "Code of Hono(u)r" and I can't believe this show lasted more than a season. Tasha is awful. And I already want to throw Wesley out an airlock.

"My son is standing in the turbolift, he's not on the bridge."

"Good. [beat] Wesley, man the Ops station! Oh, and I won't tell you whether you can press the buttons or not."

"Wesley! You're back on the bridge! Why don't you man Ops again?"

"Wesley? What are you still doing at Ops?"

"I asked him to man the station, sir. I forgot."

"Hmm. Well, you did a good job."

This is fanfiction-level shit.

edited 10th Feb '11 4:20:28 PM by Medicus

TOS: Classic. Some episodes aged well. Some... Not so much *coughSpocksBraincough*

Early TNG (Season 1 & 2): Mostly Shit with the occasional Gem (The Measure of a Man). Had the show not had Star Trek attached to it, it would never have survived season 1.

TNG Season 3 to 6: Mostly great. The occasional stinker. When TNG is good, it's VERY good. When it's bad. It's very bad. Still, a classic.

TNG Season 7: WE RAN OUT OF IDEAS AND IT SHOWS! Lets pair troy with.... Worf. Yah. Thats it. And out series final runs is based on a Negative Space Wedgie that makes no sense! (It travels backwards in time. Except when it does not)

DS 9: Mostly solid show, got better as it went on. Probably the best essemble cast. TNG had great individuals, DS 9 has a great essemble. Character interact and become better. Odo is okay. Odo and Quarks is GREAT. Bashir is boring, Bashir and Garak or Bashir and O'Brien is AWESOME. Great writing. Also kuddos for O'Brien and Bashir, who manage to feel like "realistic friends" They behave like buddies would. Play games, go drinking, play pranks. Unlike Spock and Kirk who never give that air of RL friendship and feel "scripted" for most of their run (with some exceptions). And Sisko is pure baddass.

Voyager: Wasted Potential. The Doctor is great. Paris is... well, his actor tries. And he deserved better. The rest bland (Chakotay, Kim) to weird (Janeway and Torre) to a crime against visual entertainment (Neelix). The show was average, bordering on bad, sometimes rising above it's mediocrity to become almost great. I would have paid good money for a crossover with DS 9 featuring Neelix and Sisko, to have it end with Sisko beating Neelix to a bloody pulp.

Enterprise: HORRIBLE Cast that will make you appreciate the Voyager cast by contrast. Bad writing, till season 4 where it becomes passable, but never comes even close to the great days of TNG and DS 9.

edited 10th Feb '11 4:34:03 PM by Ghilz

Can somebody tell me why so many people can't stand Commander Tucker?? I thought he was such a lovably dorky guy and the epitome of the whole concept of "These Starfleet officers ain't the flashy pros you're used to" conept that Enterprise was going for.

Early on he comes of as a stupid jackass (but then so does everyone else).

Even more of a jackass than "Gee whiz" Archer or "I'm so bored being around these petty humans" T'Pol????

Initially to me (as a native Texan) he came across as the worst kind of Southern stereotype, they try to play him as both a complete idiot (can't do algebra in Shuttle Pod One) and as even more bigoted than Archer which makes him seem more like trailer trash than the brilliant engineer he's supposed to be. This left a bad first impression. I think if you ignore the former of these two problems it can be seen as character development (especially considering his relationship with T'Pol).

can't do algebra in Shuttle Pod One

If I have my way I'll never watch Enterprise again, but the guy was the Chief Engineer of humanity's first Warp Five-capable starship. And he can't do algebra?!

Y'know, I discovered a site called "Opinionated Enterprise Episode Guide" that levelled the same critique on ol' Trip. Because I liked him, I totally skipped over his inability to do algebra (probably because algebra is also not my strong suit either).

I mean, in the episode "Zero Hour", he seemed to be the guy that invented that whole use the deflector as a weapon shtick so, I forgive his lesser moments.

I'm a fan of these reviews.

I could understand if Trip couldn't do high-level mathematics — he's not a mathematician or a scientist, he's an engineer. Unlike in other shows, where everyone was an Omnidisciplinary Scientist.

But algebra? Pretty sure even the Makos could do that.

edited 16th Feb '11 11:56:05 PM by Medicus

DS 9 is seriously my favourite star trek

O'bian is my favourite character and the friendship between O'brian and Dr Bashir is one of the most consistently enjoyable elements of the show

the character and plot arcs are so much better developed than TNG

Fans of TOS should check the DS 9 episode Trible and Trible-ations

edited 17th Feb '11 12:04:25 AM by faradayangel

Captain Ben Sisko was THE BOSS! Of course, he's Black, so stick him on a space station with a bunch of intrigue, cause he can't be out there in a slicked out ship meeting aliens.

Damn, you Star Trek! (and I'm a fan for chrissake!)

I've never thought of that I don't agree though bear in mind that Deep Space 9 is of major strategic importance and not a place for the incompetent unlike the enterprises luxury liner in space feel

edited 17th Feb '11 12:26:05 AM by faradayangel

unlike the enterprises luxury liner in space feel

Yeah, I'm watching TNG again for the first time in years and I can't get over the Ent-D's bridge design. The Conn and OPS stations have chairs that put the operator at a 45 degree angle. It's nuts.

Tucker? Lets see:

1. Can't do Algebra (Shuttle Pod 1)
2. In the middle of a battle decides to get pissy coz they ain't rescuing Archer just now, so he threatens to cripple the engines. While the ship is in a battle I'd like to add. (Civilization)
3. Is all around moronic and rather annoying in his blatant stereotype-ness

In response to 2) I think it was more a case of they didn't fully trust T'Pol and Tucker was worried that she was going to do the logical thing and ditch the Captain.

To me, that scene in which Tucker makes it clear that he'd rather kill the engines then see that happen is part of what I thought made him such a good character. He had no problem saying "Hell naw. That's m' buddy down there."

Corny in a cool way, I thought.

"That's mah buddy down there. So though luck if you are one of the 80 or other crewmen and you want to live. Now to cripple those engines"

edited 17th Feb '11 11:43:01 AM by Ghilz

Idler 20, I'd suggest you go to one of the review sites and just watch what gets good ratings. Not all of Season One was bad and not all of Season Six was good.

As for the other comments...

I guess we got some Niners here. [Niner is a DS 9 fan ... a very rare species so please don't kill this one or they might go extinct.]

DS 9 was a literal rip-off of Babylon 5. Literally. The creator of Babylon 5 pitched his show concept to Paramount who turned him down and then immediately turned around went ahead with their Star Trek version of it, DS 9. They even had a number of meetings with the creator to totally milk him of his show concepts. Can you say "scumbag"? And it was only political correctness that made Sisko black ... though he could have been Arabic (again for politically correct reasons) since their first choice was Siddig but then they decided he was too young then (25) to be made the space station's captain. Siddig was then offered Dr. Bashir role. And it was to be a show based in a space station but that concept bombed so bad that it was the reason why they brought in the starship Defiant to try to get the show out exploring again ... but it couldn't untether itself from the space station.

Where as DS 9 is what you get when you steal another's idea, Voyager is what you get when you have a committee design a TV show. Three were on that committee. Berman, Pillar, and Taylor. Political correctness then went haywire. Female captain ... stupidly-tattooed Native American as first officer (but more like co-captain) ... oh, and co-captain chairs on the bridge (in case you ever forgot) ... black Vulcan ... female Klingon ... a Rodney King "Can't we all just get along?" mixed crew of fake conflict. And if all that wasn't bad enough, let us turn the Star Trek core theme of "to boldly go" to "running home to mommy" by casting them into deep space then making the whole premise of the show being them trying to get home. It should have been named "Star Trek: Lost In Space." And all-powerful Q showed up and could have mercifully ended this series at anytime. Truly Q was evil.

Star Trek: Enterprise is like the movie Star Trek (2009). Paramount was bone dry of ideas so when you have no new ideas, what does Hollywood do? A re-boot and hope lightning strikes twice. Or in Star Trek's case, literally hope it strikes three times. Star Trek: Enterprise was a failed re-boot and the 2009 feature release was still another re-boot ... and is still a question mark since the first movie cannibalized The Original Series. Verdict is still out if the feature film's sequel can do any better. My bet is probably not.

What needs to be done is to find someone with a truly fresh vision for a new Star Trek series and let him/her make it a generation or more after TNG. Ignore what was done in Star Trek: Enterprise and the 2009 movie as they simply messed with the canon. I'd even ignore what was done on DS 9 and Voyager. Just have TOS and TNG be considered canon and go from there.

edited 26th Feb '11 9:16:32 PM by MagicMallard

why would you have to ignore DS 9 or Voyager(Voyager sucked in my oppinion) they don't exactly mess with canon all that much

edited 26th Feb '11 9:18:36 PM by faradayangel

Just a personal preference and for the sake of simplicity. Neither DS 9 or Voyager added anything meaningful to the canon. They were both direct spin-offs of TNG. And I wouldn't have the new show explore in the direction that Voyager returned home from but strike off in a new direction so all the aliens Voyager encountered would be meaningless to the new show then. I wouldn't though pretend they didn't exist. I just wouldn't sweat conflicting what their series tried to establish.

And both DS 9 and Voyager are almost non-canon already since no cable TV network in the US is re-running them and no feature film was ever based on them. Whereas both TOS and TNG are still in syndication and doing well there.

So basically more than a third of all Star Trek is non-canon?

This is why I don't like admitting I'm a fan of Star Trek.

(And for the record I haven't seen enough of DS 9 to form an opinion, but Voyager and Enterprise were both piss. That's still no reason to strike it from canon, unless it a) directly conflicts with established canon, and b) sucked so badly even the showrunners wished it didn't exist.)

DS 9 was one little space station orbiting a minor planet that was trying to join the Federation. The Federation didn't even bring/build in one of its own space stations but just used what was left by those that left.

Voyager could barely revisit any aliens they encountered without stretching and breaking its own creditability. They were, after all, trying to get home so they needed to keep heading in that direction. It was a flawed premise. They even eventually allowed the ship to communicate with Starfleet (enter technobabble for how they did it here) in their attempts to correct the show. It was too little too late.

As for jettisoning a 1/3 of the canon, neither of the two really added much to canon. Besides, jettisoning canon to strip it down to the core that worked is what is considered a good move. Look at the current Superman movies. They jettisoned all of the Christopher Reeves movies except the first two (the second one where he got Lois Lane pregnant).

Ugh, ignore.

edited 26th Feb '11 11:42:17 PM by NateTheGreat