Would that it were so simple.
It's really not surprising. Eon clearly doesn't know what to do with Bond anymore.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
What audiences want and what Eon wants I'm pretty sure are not the same thing. Eon's response to being told that by a sensible director is to drive him to quit.
This is not a particularly forward thinking studio, and I'm increasingly uncomfortable being a fan of the franchise because of all its social justice issues. Boyle might actually have dealt with such things maturely, at least as far as possible. I fear for his replacement, both for the job they're left with and the job they'll do with it...
Boyle has had his own issues doing bigger studio films, and his name is successful enough now that he won't do a movie just for the paycheck. Sad to hear, but not entirely surprising.
Would that it were so simple.
Bond in general is a "strong producer" franchise, where the director is little more than a hired gun, so through that lens, them firing Boyle doesn't really surprise me if they thought he was being difficult — I'm willing to bet that whatever he suggested would have made the film better, but whatever.
Any speculation as to what the creative differences were?
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
A wandering user
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe regarding the potential central themes of the movie and the rumored gender of the villain?
Would that it were so simple.
Was there supposed to be a female villain? Because that's been done.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
A wandering user
Well, yeah, I mean trying again with that.
Would they really be against that given how popular Elektra King was?
A wandering user
Dunno.
Unless he would have suggested something related to Brexit and Right-Wing xenophobia.
The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
I've actually sometimes wondered about that myself - the place of Bond post-Trump, post-Brexit, post-Weinstein. Much as I love Bond, it's hard to argue against the fact the franchise has strong roots in tropes that... don't exactly fly today - the books have, among other things, Bond befriending gleefully unrepentant rapists (who are treated as endearing antiheroes at worst), commenting that women should've never been given the vote (keep in mind Fleming was a little kid when women got the vote in Britain, so this was reactionary even for the time), and that Koreans literally are not human. The early movies aren't exactly innocent either (that Forced Kiss in Goldfinger, yeep), and even the more recent ones sometimes haven't caught up with the 21st Century (seducing a traumatized rape victim in Skyfall, double yeep).
I don't want the franchise to end, of course, but I do think it should take a look at itself for a while.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
It doesn't help that the most vocal of the fandom refuses to keep up with the 21st century either. Keep in mind that the reason that Bond didn't sleep with Camille Montes was because the film makers felt him seducing a traumatised victim of attempted sexual assault would be low even for Bond.
I guess they just gave up on updating the franchise for a modern audience when enough people complained about Craig not acting like Bond.
edit: nevermind, I missed a post.
Edited by LE0Night on Aug 21st 2018 at 2:15:17 AM
As we discussed pages back, Bond did that with Severine in Skyfall. It got her killed too.
A wandering user
https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17765012/james-bond-danny-boyle-directors
Here are some articles of potential replacements for Danny Boyle.
Interestingly...I'd approve the idea of a Female director for the next James Bond film. Kathryn Bigelow, Dee Rees, Karyn Kusama and Lesli Linka Glatter seem like fitting choices for it.
As for Males...I'd say that Takashi Miike directing it would be INSANE...but at the same time, a good one.
Realistically though, James Wan, Ryan Coogler and Tomas Alfredson could be certain picks as well.
The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
My dream pick would be Christopher Mc Quarrie. Just imagine him bringing the same level of quality he gave to the recent MI films into the Bond series. 
A wandering user
That would make him type-directed for action films.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
This whole reboot sort of feels like a wash, doesn't it? In order, we've had...
- One universally acclaimed film
- One screwed over by a writers' strike and generally agreed to be too gritty and dreary to be truly entertaining.
- One stuck in Development Hell several years, and while it got mostly good reviews has received pretty strong criticism of how its female characters were handled.
- One built up as the climax of all the preceding, but generally agreed to be just kinda there and most notable for silly plot twists.
- And now one that's taken a huge hit right from the starting bell.
A wandering user
Still, we have to wait and see how it rolls. It may follow some sort of Star Trek curse: The uneven films (Casino Royale and Skyfall) tend to get more praise while the even ones (Quantum of Solace and Spectre) tend to get the most flak.
I wouldn't call it a wash necessarily. The Craig era films are not without flaws but the thing to understand is no film is. It's not like they've received the visceral hatred Die Another Day got.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
I mean it more in the sense that the post-reboot series seems to have a ton more production troubles, not that the movies themselves are overall worse.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Would that it were so simple.
As far as production goes, Bond movies have the misfortune of being distributed by the perennially bankrupt MGM.
There really isn't an easy answer regarding making this franchise good. On a fundamental level, the attitude that Bond movies need to be high art, or can be, is part of the problem. The premise is inherently ridiculous and being able to enjoy a Bond movie means acknowledging that it's shlock. Even the fantastic and understated On Her Majesty's Secret Service was a good time and fairly light in tone, until the end. Even License to Kill, even though it's dark and feels too much like Miami Vice, is pretty fun to watch. These recent Bonds are just too grey and dour.
"I've actually sometimes wondered about that myself - the place of Bond post-Trump, post-Brexit, post-Weinstein. Much as I love Bond, it's hard to argue against the fact the franchise has strong roots in tropes that... don't exactly fly today - the books have, among other things, Bond befriending gleefully unrepentant rapists (who are treated as endearing antiheroes at worst), commenting that women should've never been given the vote (keep in mind Fleming was a little kid when women got the vote in Britain, so this was reactionary even for the time), and that Koreans literally are not human. The early movies aren't exactly innocent either (that Forced Kiss in Goldfinger, yeep), and even the more recent ones sometimes haven't caught up with the 21st Century (seducing a traumatized rape victim in Skyfall, double yeep)."
So, I agree with this, but I don't think this is that big a hurdle for the franchise to overcome. Let's start with Brexit and Trump — it's undeniable that the character from the books is a racist and a reactionary, but that hasn't really been the case with the film character, who even in the movies of the Sixties doesn't pine for empire the way the book character does. I actually think this is a problem with the Craig films specifically. There's just too much England in the later two films, and it's not the vibrant, multicultural London of the 2010s, but boring, dreary, Whitehall officeblock London, and instead of being ten minutes at the beginning, it's a huge part of Skyfall and Spectre. The appeal of Bond is in sending him to off-the-wall locations around the world ASAP. Get him the fuck out of Britain.
As for the post-Weinstein era, I don't really have a good solution for it. Bond as a character is never going to embrace the popular, Adorkable "softboy" archetype, and is a pretty big icon of bygone ideas of masculinity and male sexuality. We can deconstruct that all we want, but it's so fundamental to Bond the character that it's never going away completely. What they can do is make Bond's attitude towards women not so goddamn coarse. Forget the books — revisit Dalton and Brosnan's portrayals, which had, written into their characterizations, sincere attempts to make the character more woman friendly. It's not a perfect solution (Brosnan Bond fucking the doctor in TWINE would never fly today), and will need adaptation to make it a good fit for the 2020s, but it's better than looking at the odious character from the books as the ideal.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Aug 22nd 2018 at 4:37:33 AM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
In fairness, it's just keeping with the times by toning down the ridiculous aspects. We had ridiculous Bond in Die Another Day and Octopussy see how those turned out. Besides, The Graig movies are closer to the original Bond novels.
Would that it were so simple.
The original novels were shlock. Some of them are honestly worth more as toilet paper than literature. Even You Only Live Twice, a novel I adore and think is one of the best spy novels ever written, is totally ridiculous. That's the point: Bond has always been ridiculous. So have some goddamn fun, already!
The hagiography that the books get is frankly bizarre. They're bargain-bin pulp written by a guy that people in the Fifties, by their own standards, thought was a racist weirdo.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Aug 22nd 2018 at 4:46:58 AM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
A wandering user
The British's definition of fun differs from the American one, you know.
The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Already!?
And I thought the cases with Josh Trank, Phil Lord and Chris Miller and Colin Trevorrow were the last we could expect from Star Wars...and now James Bond?
The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.