Professional Wrestling

That really should not have been unexpected, on my part, but it still caught me by surprise. I should know anyone wrestling that long is liable to retire at any moment, especially someone so heavily associated with the garbage circuit. I've read, heard, seen LuFisto go through several injuries, illnesses and let the fact stress was getting to her be known before, but lately she didn't seem like she was in a bad place, much less ready to retire. There have been some missed dates this year that probably should have clued me in, but I chalked those up to travel issues(a cold snap, a blizzard, a government shutdown, etc), especially since she was still making other dates(maybe if I actually kept up with what she posted on her website).

Two of those involved matches I was anticipating(and paid for), that I just assumed I would be seeing soon(and still may, she does still have dates left), others I knew were unlikely then and should probably write off now. If it seems I am being disrespectful, that's not my intention. If she hung up the boots Tuesday I wouldn't think she owed me another second in them, and never particularly cared for the way some fans trashed her. You're free to dislike wrestlers for whatever reason but it was a little disconcerting watching a veteran baby face come to help small foreign indie feds, put over their younger wrestlers, look happy to be there and then get picked apart for all her short comings. If she was plain awful or had overstayed her welcome, I could see it, but I never thought she subjected the fans of USA or Mexico to that.

At least three students out of Onyx and LuFisto's Torture Chamber have been wrestling at least ten years now, and LuFisto has been an undeniable part of a few long running promotions, including some outside of Canada, so I don't think she should be too sore about her legacy. I don't follow nCw too closely, but I am interested in seeing if LuFisto's going to stay involved after she retires. Watching the videos she has on her website might be a good idea, in case they get taken down after 2019. And she hasn't retired yet, there is still a little more to see from her.

Edited by IndirectActiveTransport on Feb 28th 2019 at 6:15:07 AM

I don't know her or her work, but that was sad, and I wish her well.

So I don't know how long this has been a thing, but I'm seeing some disgusting anti-Indian bigotry on the comments of WWE videos. More than anti-any other culture or group.

First Nation Amerindian or Subcontinent of Asia East Indian? If it's the former, I've got no clue what WWE fans are on, unless they're turning on Mickie James or one of the Latino wrestlers showed too much pride in their Amerindian roots(Rey/Melina wore an Aztec something! My eyes, they burn!). If it's the latter, I guess it might be a Germans Love David Hasselhoff thing. I hear Vince Jr managed to get Roman Reigns of the beloved Shield trio X-Pac Heat, and Indians love Roman Reigns, so maybe WWE fans are blaming Indians for Roman Reigns being pushed the way they used to blame women and children for John Cena's push, or teenage girl's for Jeff Hardy's.

Also, WWE periodically tries to establish itself in India, the rocky shore against which wrestling feds have crashed and broke ever since it split with Pakistan. The latest developments in that trend, that I know of, are The Great Khali and Jinder Mahal. The former was way past his prime when he got to WWE and was never all that good even at his peak, the latter I'm told is fairly bland and suspected to be on something of his own. I suppose they could be blaming Indians for WWE pushing one or the other, though in slang I'm also told "Jinder Mahal" means "loser", so while it's true Indians will pour into the streets by the tens of thousands just to see Giant Singh, as they used to call him, they probably can't be blamed for Juicy Jinder.

Maybe there's some new Indian wrestler stinking up the ring? An NXT trainee perhaps? Maybe some Indian independent circuit wrestler got called to NXT ahead of, or in place of some indie darling fans were actively campaigning for? Did WWE pick up that guy who was onTNAImpact Wrestling? Not trying to imply any of this is good reason to bash Indians, but I do have some experience with the fan base, and many other pro wrestling fan bases. Even outside of pro wrestling Transformers has the "worst nation ever" meme(which is a joke, but one that is satirical in nature)

Subcontinent.

I'm actually noticing far more overt hatred towards Indian (or suspected Indian, even) people now than when Jinder was pushed a year and a half ago. Of course, part of Jinder's angle was rightly calling out Americans on our prejudice (up until he turned hypocrite briefly for 2 weeks against Nakamura), so they'd have been proving him right, then. But even outside of that, there's no Indian person currently being pushed anywhere in WWE. Hell, most of the people currently receiving pushes in WWE are blonde women, indie darlings, and a couple of Creator's Pet types here or there (but even then, those creators pets are former indie darlings).

Some of the comments I see assume Indian people like Roman, but smarks were finally starting to turn the corner on him even before he went away for 5 months due to a resurgence of his leukemia (he's back as of Monday).

It'd just seem like your standard hateful, impotent American commenter, but it's too focused. I don't know what it is.

Side note on Jinder - part of his hate came from his enforced limited moveset and not being a smark favorite, but he actually filled the role he was written for really well, according to consensus backstage and was a pleasure to work with according to AJ Styles at least, and possibly others he worked with. His work ethic and attitude were cited as an inspiration by current WWE smark darling Becky Lynch, and secondhand accounts suggest he's just plain a good guy. I've gotten to meet him 2 months after he lost the title, and can confirm he's nice to meet and down to earth.

Do I think he juices/juiced? I don't know, but he has posted his workouts, and he maintained his physique for quite some time after being on TV with any regularity. His push is suggested to have started because WWE was trying to expand into the Indian market, but even a year after it ended, he hasn't had any wellness violation that I'm aware of. So unless they're lax on their PED policy for Jinder Mahal of all people...

Also, didn't we establish earlier in this thread that non-WWE and non-American promotions don't really have a PED policy? I'm anti-cheating, but I can't help but notice some sports fans (across sports and leagues, and worldwide) only seem to care more about cheating when it's someone they were looking to hate on anyway, especially if that person isn't white.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Mar 1st 2019 at 6:37:39 AM

Re: Transformers

I've just been thinking about how lately it hasn't been at the top of "shittiest fanbase I happen to be a part of". Right now that top is the fanbases of: The MCU, Star Wars, and perpetual front-runner Sonic the Hedgehog. The former two are shitty because of the vocal bigot contingent, while Sonic's fanbase is generally shitty due to treating Accentuate the Negative like drinking water.

So if anyone cares about the WWE Hall of Fame, the first two inductees have been announced, D-Generation X and the Honky Tonk Man. The first is no real surprise, but the second is as HTM has been pretty vocal about his dislike of the company.

The first is actually a surprise in that they're finally recognizing the contributions of Chyna, several years after she died. She'd left the company likely on bad terms, after presumably being used and cheated by Triple H, Stephanie, and Vince.

Also this makes HBK a 2x hall of famer, but the important part to me is Chyna.

WWE has a notoriously easy to bypass drug policy when it comes to muscle boosters and main event wrestlers. They're much like the NFL in that regard, as they'll come down harder on you for marijuana. But as someone who has not been a WWE fan for a good while, I should note that I don't know if and am not particularly concerned about Jinder Mahal "juicing", much less any reasons he may have had.

What interested me about the case was that prior to returning to McMahon Mahal was trying to(of course) attract freelance wrestlers to India, one of his pitches being that it was a place WWE wasn't where one could wrestle in front of crowds comparable to Wrestlemania's. While that's not an anti WWE stance, he didn't strike me as one begging to be signed again. It could be all coincidental, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was an intricate story waiting to be told there.

But that puts us back to square one as far as Indians being a target of WWE fans on youtube. In a different direction, for the first time Ring Of Honor and All Elite Wrestling have given me hope some of that long lost USA market can be revived. Two companies, that aren't at each other's throats, very likely doing good houses with how well they draw, in the United States? It's not the "GFW Boom", but it's a start. I was let down when I had similar hopes for The World Wrestling League, but why not apply that same foolish optimism towards Mahal and Khali/Singh? Maybe they will revive India's pro wrestling circuit. Make a bunch of fans eat their words?

I'd love nothing more than for bigots to eat their words.

...besides if they ate their words, choked on them, and died.

RE: WWE Hall of Fame

Isn't Triple H also a 2x Hall of Famer? IICR he was inducted the following year to Shawn's induction. I agree, however, that Chyna being finally inducted was THE big news.

Edited by AM_NK on Mar 2nd 2019 at 2:06:03 PM

Here's an interesting article from the director of the Paige biopic about how "the liberal elite snubs wrestling":

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/mar/01/spandex-snobbery-liberal-elite-wrestling-working-class?CMP=fb_gu

And WWE snubs liberals. I wonder if it's chicken or the egg.

Most wrestlers I can actually name a political affiliation for are closer to the American right wing.

Also, as far as my OKC dating profile tells me, women in my area aren't big on pro wrestling, or happy when a guy likes it.

I dunno. There's no actual Hall of Fame to check. Christian should be inducted soon though. As of right now he's one of the most successful wrestlers in WWE history in terms of number of championship wins (5th all time).

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Mar 2nd 2019 at 10:36:22 AM

Currently Ric Flair is the only two time Hall of Famer, though after this year Shawn Michaels will join him.

Triple H is not in the Hall of Fame yet, probably due to his yearly match at Wrestlemania.

If they're counting Rick Rude as a DX member, then he's also going to be a two-time inductee.

They aren't. They're counting 6 people who they say represent both incarnations of D-X: Chyna, Shawn, Hunter, Road Dogg, X-Pac, Billy Gunn.

More HOF news as apparently Brutus Beefcake and Torrie Wilson are the next to be inducted. Brutus deserves it as he was incredibly over in his prime, but Torrie has me scratching my head.

That article in The Guardian about why people are not celebrating a working class woman "conquering" WWE, pro wrestling's Hollywood...

I know I'm not exactly preaching to the choir here, but The Guardian's comments section was closed. I say good luck to The Rock and congratulations Paige, but I'm probably not watching the movie. It's not like I was unhappy when Britani Knight signed with WWE, but that was mostly the end of me watching her wrestle. I'm fine with wrestlers making money with McMahon, but of all things I believe deserve more attention in pro wrestling, WWE is towards the bottom of my list. It's not like the 'liberal elite', if by 'liberal elite' we mean Hollywood types, cared much about Jerry Lawler, the millionaire. For every Gorgeous George, Andre The Giant, Roddy Piper or Hulk Hogan there were dozens to hundreds of Masked Marvel, Lou Thesz, Gene Kiniski, Buddy Rogers, The Destroyer, Ernie Ladd, Fabulous Kangaroos, Antonino Rocca, Bruno Sammartino, Sheep Herders, Victor Jovica, Junkyard Dog, Fabulous Free Birds, Giant Haystacks, Sivi Afi, Big Daddy, Jack Veneno, Rock N Roll Express, Dory Funk, Road Warriors, Stan Hansen, Greak Kabuki, Nick Bockwinkle, Four Horsemen and Kevin Sullivan types not in the Hollywood press who were making money.

Not all of them even spent much if any time in CWC/WWF/E. Getting the industry closer to that is more important to me than 'liberal elite' approval for one company that's doing well enough, and would be even if that company wasn't largely responsible for the industry's rut. Having Fighting With My Family run through March, women's history month, was a smart move, but more than once did that company play a part in stunting career opportunities of women wrestlers on this continent. Good on Paige doing her part to right things, but I'm probably not watching the movie. I got a thumb drive, bought few pro wrestling downloads and ordered a pro wrestling DVD. Those don't have to be mutually exclusive, but likely will be. I only have so much money, and don't feel like spending it on anything WWE.

I'm also not watching the movie, but for possibly different reasons. I know part of the story, and I don't really care to find out more, when I could just watch a different movie or do something else.

Also, WWE isn't getting any more of my money, after bringing back and unapologetic Hogan and doubling down on the Saudi Arabia shows. Not when there's better wrestling elsewhere with less Unfortunate Implications. Yes I'll be watching and hoping for Kofi to win the big one, but outside of that, I have no reason to maintain any more than a passing interest in the company, given what it has already shown as its tendency to disappoint, or cater to a specific audience at the expense of all others.

So all that's left is to wish AEW doesn't have the same ending as WCW and TNA, then. Though I don't think the BTE guys would actually commit those mistakes on purpose or accidentally. IICR there's at least two of them who got a stint on TNA during that company's worst years.

I'm kinda down on AEW ever since I found out they're also taking Chuckie T and Beretta from NJPW. I wish more of their roster was new and upcoming talent, and not as much picking and choosing their friends from NJPW, ROH, and TNA, and leaving those companies to rebuild. As it stands, it's more of a reshuffling than an industry growth.

Well, you need to attract people and build the fanbase first. I see the situation the same as it was with Defiant Wrestling back when they were WCPW. Back then they needed the big names to attract fans and well-written storylines to get them to stick around. Then they lost the backing of WhatCulture and had to rebrand, and these days Defiant only has a bunch of old timers (i.e. those that weren't exclusively signed to WWE) while they are focusing now on building new wrestlers (I haven't seen the most recent Loaded episodes, but IICR back at Defiant Loaded #6 they announced a Breakout division in order to showcase new wrestlers, kind of an NXT division). Yet they haven't lost much of an audience, considering they managed to stick around.

Edited by AM_NK on Mar 4th 2019 at 8:23:28 AM

I dunno... I watched a little of WCPW back then, and I found myself more interested in the British indie originals than the former WWE guys. Namely Martin Kirby and Joe Hendry. But what really got me interested was their Pro Wrestling World Cup - the REAL world cup of wrestling. Ambitious and fun. Yes in the final rounds it was mostly bigger international stars, but that ran concurrently with, and at times secondary to, the guys who were actually there for full/majority time. Also, even when it was more reliant on global stars, they were keen to share. Yes it's not like they had as much a choice.

Maybe I'm just super salty that I won't get to see Chucky T's heel turn that started in Tag League 2018 play out in New Japan.

Incidentally, I've decided to watch more of Defiant ever since Simon's in-ring debut and current status as Assistant GM. He works well. I do miss seeing the Adams involved, but I get that breakup.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Mar 4th 2019 at 9:39:39 AM

You know...Becky kinda had that coming.

Now I want Ronda to get Charlotte too. Just to make it fair.

Double Post:

Smackdown starting. King Kong Bundy is dead too, just to let y'all know.