The Order of the Stick

It's more because their brains literally function faster.

For a neurodivergent child, ten minutes alone in a room with nothing to do is Hell.

This is precisely what's bothering me about the experiment. I've seen no indication that they adjusted for the effects of ADHD or autism on a child's mind. They just ran the experiment and concluded, "Children who have patience are objectively better."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 10th 2023 at 7:05:26 AM

Keep in mind that the kid still has to sit through that time. Based on what’s been said they don’t eat one marshmallow then leave, they eat one and then sit there while the timer ticks down.

Yes, but at least they'll have a marshmallow.

Which gets to the question of why they want to be marshmallow. Do they want it because they like them generally, or do they want it because it makes it easier to endure being used as a Guinea Pig for a science experiment?

Oh sorry I just totally misremembered this, actually. They had a bell to bring back the researcher early. Yeah, that does quite change the calculus, especially for a little kid. The value of not having to wait is quite qualitatively different from the time value of marshmallow stuff I was going on about earlier. My bad!

I was rather surprised by what you said, Tobias, because I had been thinking this was trying to determine what age that sort of patience/delayed-gratification-willingness generally emerged as a (questionable) proxy for a certain type of reasoning. In which case one might expect a lot of ADHD and such to largely if not wholly 'wash out' by being present in all samples. But er... Yeah, so it was supposed to be that.

But then once, later on, they saw the correlation between life outcomes and waiting and it became about the predictive value of like, early delayed gratification, for later "character" or "competence"... Yeah, that's pretty skeevy. And of course has been challenged since and the effect diminished when the experiment was repeated, and a lot of what is there might be reversed causality because of course it is.

Oh yeah. If the option of taking the free marshmellow and bailing is on the table, that's just objectively the best option because no marshmallow is worth 10 minutes of nothing.

I always thought it was "Take one now and leave, or wait 10 mins and get two."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

From the same source.

Which does lead to one of the reasons psychology experiments get (or at least should be) run repeatedly, to try to ensure that all of the variables are accounted for. For example, the famous "violent media causes violent behavior" experiments, they later realized that the environment was colder and more sterile in the "violent media" room, which meant those kids were more agitated.

Of course, every new experiment introduces new variables (and people are different), so the results keep coming up slightly different...

My ex wife is reading through my old physical copies slowly, and she's told me that all of the members of the Order are autistic in different ways and I guess... she... has a point? It never occurred to me.

Oh? How so? I’d be interested in hearing more about that, if it’s not too much trouble.

I'll have to bug her for it. Durkon seems like the most obvious case, then I guess Elan and V has applicability? I'd be curious to hear her talk more about Roy, Harley and Belker.

Belkar, V and Elan do have some sort of neurodivergance going on, but the other half of the party would be a bit of a stretch.

I don't think "having mental troubles" equates "autism", there are many other kinds of mental troubles out there. Durkon is simply introverted and is also a dwarf.

Yeah, I wouldn't say Belkar has autism. More some form of sociopathy.

I also agree with the Durkon thing. People tend to see any quite, introverted people as neurodivergent, even though these aren't the same thing. (I'm autistic and introverted but that's just me).

Edited by Kaiseror on Jun 21st 2023 at 1:14:20 PM

I can see the Autism parallels with Durkon. He isn't just introverted, he's the kinda guy who needs to have social rules spelled out to him and has a hard time functioning outside these rules. That was one of the first segments of Durkula memory dives and it does feel outright neurodivergent and not just him being shy and quiet.

Edit: Actually I'm not sure I agree with my own pount here, even as a joke.

Edited by johnnye on Jun 21st 2023 at 3:46:21 AM

I dunno, cross species psychology is a little weird.

You joke but that likely would be a factor when it comes to intelligent nonhuman species.

1283: Budding Emotions. All of Serini's monsters are volunteers, and she almost chews out Soon for lying to the paladins... before admitting she used to do the same thing. Character development!

Serini really is a good soul. Just a bit tunnel visioned.

I was under the impression that the Sapphire Guard knew what it's up against before recruitment. The only recruitment we actually saw (O-Chul's) went that way. I'm assuming Lien is surprised before a MONSTER knows the full story abd not because she didn't.

The Sapphire Guard would be told about the Gates after they were sworn in, I believe, but I suppose that wasn't what Serini was referring to here. I think it's the bit where the majority of the SG was crammed into the throne room during the battle with Xykon to die and power up the real final line of defence.

Edited by Kayeka on Jun 26th 2023 at 6:57:28 PM