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Per How To Write An Example: Do Not Alter or Pothole the Trope Name: When adding a trope to a work page, always use the trope's correct, unaltered title. Modifying trope names with potholes leads to them being shoehorned into being things that they aren't — as this one is here. "Destructive Bromance" is not a trope, and, as there is no sexual or romantic arc between Anakin and Obi-Wan, the trope that was actually linked does not apply by definition.
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* [[DestructiveRomance Destructive Bromance]]: With Obi-Wan, in similar ways as Padme, actually, in that the two are unusually insular and isolated much of the time, even within the Jedi Order. That combined with the multi-layered nature of their relationship wreaks havoc on Anakin's emotional issues. He loves and idolizes Obi-Wan, is desperate for his love and approval in turn, and is immensely emotionally reliant on him. At the same time, he often resents and envies him, occasionally distrusts his motives, and conceals major aspects of his life from him. Palpatine manages to twist Anakin's conflicted feelings towards Obi-Wan into violent, nearly-incoherent hatred. Fortunately, they manage to reconcile in the afterlife.
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Since Anakin and Obi-Wan still matched Ventress in their duels, she shouldn't be considered "better" than either of them. Also, no need to explain in detail why he missed the point for not becoming a Jedi Master.
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** Asajj Ventress is this to him. Though he always puts up a more impressive fight against Dooku than Ventress ever could, Anakin himself never manages to score a clean win against Ventress even with Obi-Wan or Ahsoka's help (though admittedly, he does come very close to winning a few times).
** He also tends to feel like he's AlwaysSecondBest to Obi-Wan despite Obi-Wan [[SurpassedTheTeacher believing otherwise]] because Obi-Wan is far more respected than him by the Jedi and other people and how he can't defeat Obi-Wan despite being able to defeat duelists who are better than him like Dooku.
** He also tends to feel like he's AlwaysSecondBest to Obi-Wan despite Obi-Wan [[SurpassedTheTeacher believing otherwise]] because Obi-Wan is far more respected than him by the Jedi and other people and how he can't defeat Obi-Wan despite being able to defeat duelists who are better than him like Dooku.
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** Asajj Ventress is Zigzagged. During his teenage years, Anakin never bested Obi-Wan in a duel, owing to [[TacticalRockPaperScissors their fighting styles]] and Obi-Wan's level of experience. Likewise, he often found himself awed by Obi-Wan's aptitude as a Jedi. Near the end of the Clone Wars though, Anakin goes through several CharacterDevelopment, causing Obi-Wan to acknowledge his former apprentice as "the better Jedi". Sadly, Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader changed this, [[SanityHasAdvantages making him short-sighted and villainous]]. However, once Obi-Wan helped complete his redemption in the afterlife, the two are shown to be equals.
** Rey serves as this for Anakin. Despite his talent and decade of training, 19 year old Anakin was defeated by [[TheDragon Count Dooku]] and lost an arm. Three years later, he fell tohim. Though he always puts up a more impressive fight the Dark Side and lost against Dooku than Ventress ever could, Anakin himself never manages to score a clean win against Ventress even with Obi-Wan or Ahsoka's help (though admittedly, he does come on Mustafar, all while not learning how to use Force healing. In contrast, 19 year old Rey became a very close powerful Jedi in mere days, even using Force techniques that took Anakin years to winning master. Moreover, within a few times).
** Hesingle year, she also tends learned to feel like he's AlwaysSecondBest restore fatal wounds, defeated [[BigBad Palpatine]], and brought balance to Obi-Wan despite Obi-Wan [[SurpassedTheTeacher believing otherwise]] because Obi-Wan is far more respected than him by the Jedi and other people and how he can't defeat Obi-Wan despite being able to defeat duelists who are better than him like Dooku.galaxy.
** Rey serves as this for Anakin. Despite his talent and decade of training, 19 year old Anakin was defeated by [[TheDragon Count Dooku]] and lost an arm. Three years later, he fell to
** He
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* DramaticallyMissingThePoint: When Anakin is appointed to the Jedi Council but ''not'' given the rank of Master, he believes it's entirely unfair and not right given all his accomplishments. But not only is he only even on the Council due to Palpatine wanting him on it as a political move rather than going through the Trials, his reaction alone (immediately complaining in a manner that had to be quelled) shows he was hardly mature enough to be in that position in the first place.
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* DramaticallyMissingThePoint: When Anakin is appointed to the Jedi Council but ''not'' given the rank of Master, he believes it's entirely unfair and not right given all his accomplishments. But not only is In doing so, he only even on the Council due to Palpatine wanting him on it as a political move rather than going through the Trials, his reaction alone (immediately complaining in a manner that had pretty much showed why he wasn't ready to be quelled) shows he was hardly mature enough to be in that position in the first place.a Jedi Master.
Deleted line(s) 482 (click to see context) :
** When temporarily corrupted by the Son, Anakin claims that the Jedi stand in the way of peace. While clearly stemming from an unsound mindset, there are strong merits to this statement. Not only does the Jedi Order allow highly dubious acts such as using Padawans as child soldiers, but they support the failing Republic and its equally poorly-planned actions (e.g. creating cloned humans to be a military force, ignoring the Outer Rim's immense problems, etc...). These actions are what largely led to the Empire's establishment.
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The Clone wars and external materials explicitly show that Anakin subconsciously resents the Jedi Order for their callous attitude. Several, such as Yoda himself, admitted that they were wrong to act this way.
Changed line(s) 81 (click to see context) from:
* AlwaysSecondBest: He'd never admit it out loud but Anakin tends to feel this way about Obi-Wan. As much as he respects and trusts Obi-Wan, Anakin gets frustrated at the seeming [[TheAce ease with which Obi-Wan does everything and how he's praised by the Jedi Council as the greatest of the Order]]. Especially when Anakin himself isn't particularly well liked [[DudeWheresMyRespect in spite of his own heroic actions]].
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* AlwaysSecondBest: He'd never admit it out loud but Deep down, Anakin tends to feel this way about Obi-Wan. As much as he respects and trusts Obi-Wan, Anakin gets frustrated at awed by the seeming [[TheAce ease with which Obi-Wan does everything and how he's praised by the Jedi Council as the greatest one of the Order]]. its greatest]]. Especially when Anakin himself isn't particularly well liked since some Jedi [[DudeWheresMyRespect in spite of his own heroic actions]].outright distrust him as an ally]].
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* BreakTheCutie: The incredibly sweet little boy of ''Film/ThePhantomMenace'' and the naïve, idealistic, and romantic teenager of ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' are crushed by the events that occur in the latter due to the death of his mother. As well as his time as a solider in [[WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars The Clone Wars]] . Added with the events that happen to Anakin in ''[[WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars The Clone Wars]]'' as [[EvilMentor well as Palpatine's manipulations.]] Combined with his own fear of loss and anger lead to his final break.
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* BreakTheCutie: The incredibly sweet little boy of ''Film/ThePhantomMenace'' and the naïve, idealistic, and romantic teenager of ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' are crushed by the events that occur in the latter due to the death of his mother. As well as his time as a solider in [[WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars The Clone Wars]] . Added with the events that happen to Anakin in ''[[WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars The Clone Wars]]'' as [[EvilMentor well as Palpatine's manipulations.]] Combined ends up adding fuel to fire, with his own fear of loss and anger lead to his final break.Palpatine manipulating Anakin's accumulated grief in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''.
Changed line(s) 287 (click to see context) from:
* DudeWheresMyRespect: Anakin becomes increasingly frustrated with the lack of respect and trust he feels he deserves from the Jedi Council, something that factors into his FaceHeelTurn in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''.
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* DudeWheresMyRespect: Over the years, Anakin becomes increasingly frustrated with the Jedi Order's lack of respect and trust he feels he deserves from the Jedi Council, towards him, something that factors into his FaceHeelTurn in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''.
** Anakin's grief towards the Jedi Council is justified. Despite years of service, the council continue to treat him as a simple asset for their crusade, and are downright cruel at worst. Similarly, it's not hard to see why Anakin held resentment towards them. [[ConceptsAreCheap For all the Jedi Order's influence and preachment]], they ended up doing some very shady things, such as: leave Shmi to be a slave under dangerous conditions, manipulate Anakin's grief when Obi-Wan [[FakingTheDead "died"]], and completely abandon Ahsoka in her time of need.
Changed line(s) 471 (click to see context) from:
** One good example is this [[Recap/StarWarsTheCloneWarsS2E6WeaponsFactory situation]]. When Ahsoka and Barriss fell into deadly trouble, Anakin's emotions compelled him to take immediate action. In contrast, Luminara's detachments initially [[SkewedPriorities made her focus on criticizing Anakin's outward concern, instead of helping the search team]].While aggressive in action he was right that necessary action trumped detachment.
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** Values aside, Anakin's growing frustration at the Jedi Order's openly detached attitude isn't unwarranted, since it harbors incompetence and causes more harm than good. It's especially egregious considering how the Jedi Code ''espouses compassion'', so this attitude is completely antithetical to their way of life.
*** One good example is this [[Recap/StarWarsTheCloneWarsS2E6WeaponsFactory situation]]. When Ahsoka and Barriss fell into deadly trouble, Anakin's emotions compelled him to take immediate action. In contrast, Luminara's detachments initially [[SkewedPriorities made her focus on criticizing Anakin's outward concern, instead of helping the search team]].While aggressive in action he Considering a Jedi's duty is to look out for their Padawans, Anakin's reaction was right that necessary action trumped detachment.far more logical and moral.
*** One good example is this [[Recap/StarWarsTheCloneWarsS2E6WeaponsFactory situation]]. When Ahsoka and Barriss fell into deadly trouble, Anakin's emotions compelled him to take immediate action. In contrast, Luminara's detachments initially [[SkewedPriorities made her focus on criticizing Anakin's outward concern, instead of helping the search team]].
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** While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
*** Also, considering that the Council's reason for accepting Anakin as a member was solely so that they can "unofficially" use him as a spy towards Palpatine, Anakin wasn't exactly wrong to interpret such an act as "disrespectful" and "hypocritical".
** When temporarily corrupted by the Son, Anakin claims that the Jedi stand in the way of peace. While clearly stemming from an unsound mindset, there are strong merits to this statement. Not only does the Jedi Order allow highly dubious acts such as using Padawans as child soldiers, but they support the failing Republic and its equally poorly-planned actions (e.g. creating cloned humans to be a military force, ignoring the Outer Rim's immense problems, etc...). These actions are what largely led to the Empire's establishment.
** When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin, [[WrongForTheRightReasons and attempts to kill Palpatine after pointing out how much political power the Sith Lord holds]]. [[RightForTheWrongReasons Though mostly from being emotionally manipulated by Palpatine, Anakin's point is valid,]] considering how their Jedi Order is clearly unprepared to deal with the consequences of assassinating the Supreme Chancellor. Had the two Jedi acted less impulsively, they could have reached a better solution (ex: discussing the matter with every other Jedi Council member before taking decisive action)
*** Also, considering that the Council's reason for accepting Anakin as a member was solely so that they can "unofficially" use him as a spy towards Palpatine, Anakin wasn't exactly wrong to interpret such an act as "disrespectful" and "hypocritical".
** When temporarily corrupted by the Son, Anakin claims that the Jedi stand in the way of peace. While clearly stemming from an unsound mindset, there are strong merits to this statement. Not only does the Jedi Order allow highly dubious acts such as using Padawans as child soldiers, but they support the failing Republic and its equally poorly-planned actions (e.g. creating cloned humans to be a military force, ignoring the Outer Rim's immense problems, etc...). These actions are what largely led to the Empire's establishment.
** When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin, [[WrongForTheRightReasons and attempts to kill Palpatine after pointing out how much political power the Sith Lord holds]]. [[RightForTheWrongReasons Though mostly from being emotionally manipulated by Palpatine, Anakin's point is valid,]] considering how their Jedi Order is clearly unprepared to deal with the consequences of assassinating the Supreme Chancellor. Had the two Jedi acted less impulsively, they could have reached a better solution (ex: discussing the matter with every other Jedi Council member before taking decisive action)
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"From a Certain Point of View: Return of the Jedi" shows a glimpse of what happened behind the scenes after Anakin died, namely his and Obi-Wan's changed outlook.
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* AngerIsNotEnough: At the climax of ''Revenge of the Sith'', Anakin believes that his anger-fueled use of the Dark Side now makes him more powerful than ''anyone'', including Emperor Palpatine and Anakin's former mentor Obi-Wan. However, it clearly proved to be the opposite, making Anakin emotionally unstable and careless. This costs him dearly on Mustafar, with Obi-Wan's rational planning sealing his defeat.
* {{Angrish}}: After he gets maimed during a lightsaber duel with Obi-Wan that occurs on Mustafar, Anakin is reduced to screaming in agony and rage as he is consumed by flames and unable to take revenge on his former best friend.
* {{Angrish}}: After he gets maimed during a lightsaber duel with Obi-Wan that occurs on Mustafar, Anakin is reduced to screaming in agony and rage as he is consumed by flames and unable to take revenge on his former best friend.
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* AngerIsNotEnough: At the climax of ''Revenge of the Sith'', Anakin believes that his anger-fueled use of the Dark Side now makes him more powerful than ''anyone'', including the Jedi and Emperor Palpatine and Anakin's former mentor Obi-Wan.Palpatine. However, it clearly proved to be the opposite, making Anakin emotionally unstable and careless. This costs him dearly on Mustafar, with Obi-Wan's rational planning sealing his defeat.
* {{Angrish}}: After hegets was maimed during a lightsaber duel with fighting Obi-Wan that occurs on Mustafar, Anakin is reduced to screaming in agony and rage as he is consumed by flames and unable to take revenge on his former best friend.flames.
* {{Angrish}}: After he
Changed line(s) 96,97 (click to see context) from:
* AntiHero: Anakin is arrogant, aggressive, and self-righteous even at his most moral, but he is still a good man. {{Deconstructed|CharacterArchetype}} through the fact that Anakin's less than heroic traits are exploited by Palpatine in order to cause him to turn to the dark side and become a Sith Lord.
* AntiVillain: He becomes a cross between [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Types Woobie]] and [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well-Intentioned]] in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', turning to the dark side because LoveMakesYouEvil and he thinks it's the only way to [[KnightTemplar restore order to the galaxy]].
* AntiVillain: He becomes a cross between [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Types Woobie]] and [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well-Intentioned]] in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', turning to the dark side because LoveMakesYouEvil and he thinks it's the only way to [[KnightTemplar restore order to the galaxy]].
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* AntiHero: Anakin is arrogant, aggressive, and self-righteous even at his most moral, flawed, but he is still a good man. {{Deconstructed|CharacterArchetype}} through the fact that Anakin's less than heroic traits are exploited by Palpatine in order to cause him to turn to the dark side and become a Sith Lord.
Palpatine.
* AntiVillain: He becomes a cross between [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Types Woobie]] and [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well-Intentioned]] in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', turning to the dark side partly becauseLoveMakesYouEvil and he thinks it's the only way to [[KnightTemplar restore order to the galaxy]].
* AntiVillain: He becomes a cross between [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Types Woobie]] and [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well-Intentioned]] in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', turning to the dark side partly because
** In ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. Once freed from the DarkSide, a badly injured Anakin outright defeated Palpatine by enduring his strongest lightning attacks.
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* FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse: Obi-Wan tells Qui-Gon that while both of them share some blame in Anakin's turn to TheDarkSide, at the end of the day Anakin willingly chose it despite having the wisdom and better judgement to reject it.
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* FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse: Obi-Wan tells Qui-Gon that while both of them share some blame in Anakin's turn to TheDarkSide, at the end of the day Anakin willingly chose it despite having the wisdom and better judgement to reject it. That said, by "From a Certain Point of View: Return of the Jedi", he has eased up with this assessment.
Changed line(s) 394 (click to see context) from:
* HisOwnWorstEnemy: Although his early suffering is [[DeusAngstMachina through no fault of his own,]] Anakin gradually deals with this by ''Revenge of the Sith''. His insecurities, short temper, and fear of loss directly lead to him turning to the DarkSide, getting horribly maimed, and losing almost everything he cares about.
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* HisOwnWorstEnemy: Although his early suffering is [[DeusAngstMachina through no fault of his own,]] Anakin gradually deals with this by ''Revenge of the Sith''. His insecurities, short temper, and fear of loss directly lead personal flaws led to him turning to the DarkSide, getting horribly maimed, and losing almost everything he cares about.
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* OlderAndWiser: Played with as Darth Vader, in regards to his wisdom. Vader is more focused, controlled and dangerous. But his outlook and wisdom is tainted by the darkside and it's influence. As a force ghost he retains that wisdom without his former cynicism.
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* OlderAndWiser: Played with Subverted as Darth Vader, in regards to his wisdom. While Vader is more focused, controlled focused and dangerous. But his outlook and wisdom is tainted by the darkside and stoic, it's influence. As a force ghost he retains clear that wisdom without he is extremely distressed and unstable. Played straight after completing his former cynicism. training as a Jedi in the afterlife though.
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Fifth degree burns go down to the bone and sixth degree burns char the bone as well. He has no exposed bone, so his burns are fourth degree at worst.
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* SelfInflictedHell: This is clearly a big reason for why Anakin chose to serve the Empire after the events of ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', being consumed by an overwhelming desire to punish himself as Darth Vader. It's rather poetic, since his entire body was covered in 5th to 6th degree burns.
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* SelfInflictedHell: This is clearly a big reason for why Anakin chose to serve the Empire after the events of ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', being consumed by an overwhelming desire to punish himself as Darth Vader. It's rather poetic, since his entire body was covered in 5th 3rd to 6th 4th degree burns.
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In movies and series his prowess is never affected by emotional strife. He is always efficent and extermely dangerous. While he has raged , it has never affected his skill or ability. You either run and live , fight and die. Only times he has lost is due to an opponents skill ( Obi Wan) or he turns from the darkside ( to save Luke)
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In movies and series his prowess is never affected by emotional strife. He is always efficent and extermely dangerous. While he has raged , it has never affected his skill or ability. You either run and live , fight and die. Only times he has lost is due to an opponents skill ( Obi Wan) or he turns from the darkside ( to save Luke)
Changed line(s) 394 (click to see context) from:
* HisOwnWorstEnemy: Although his early suffering is [[DeusAngstMachina through no fault of his own,]] Anakin gradually deals with this by ''Revenge of the Sith''. His insecurities, short temper, and fear of loss directly lead to him turning to the DarkSide, getting horribly maimed, and losing almost everything he cares about. This continues as Darth Vader, significantly hampering his prowess when faced with emotional strife.
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* HisOwnWorstEnemy: Although his early suffering is [[DeusAngstMachina through no fault of his own,]] Anakin gradually deals with this by ''Revenge of the Sith''. His insecurities, short temper, and fear of loss directly lead to him turning to the DarkSide, getting horribly maimed, and losing almost everything he cares about. This continues as Darth Vader, significantly hampering his prowess when faced with emotional strife.
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Ashoka leaving is not a reason he did not get the rank. As in movie the issue was 1) he was on the council due to politics of Palpetine and 2) he had not taken the tests to ascend to Master.
Deleted line(s) 619 (click to see context) :
** It also didn't help that Anakin's Padawan Ahsoka was forced to leave the Jedi Order, since one of the requirements to be a Jedi Master is to train a Padawan into Knighthood. Had the Jedi Council not disillusioned her, Ahsoka would have definitely attained this rank.
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Balancing. ' Not caring for him" makes it sound like he was feeling not loved enough and went evil.
Changed line(s) 173 (click to see context) from:
** The Jedi become this to him over the course of the Prequel Trilogy and ''The Clone Wars''. Anakin starts out admiring them and aspires to become a Jedi Knight himself, but he [[YourTraditionIsNotMine struggles with their teachings]] and is frustrated that the Council [[DudeWheresMyRespect don't really acknowledge or care about him]]. Perhaps one of the largest pivotal moments was when Ahsoka was framed for treason and the Jedi Council casted her out. Anakin even admits to Palpatine that "my trust in them has been shaken" when they ask him to spy on the Chancellor, leading to Anakin's conversion into Darth Vader. It becomes a RebuiltPedestal by the end of his life, as he turns on Palpatine and saves his son, who proudly proclaimed himself a Jedi. As a Force spirit, he appears alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda dressed in Jedi robes.
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** The Jedi become this to him over the course of the Prequel Trilogy and ''The Clone Wars''. Anakin starts out admiring them and aspires to become a Jedi Knight himself, but he [[YourTraditionIsNotMine struggles with their teachings]] and is frustrated that the Council [[DudeWheresMyRespect don't really acknowledge or care about him]]. Perhaps one of the largest pivotal moments was when Ahsoka was framed for treason and the Jedi Council casted her out. Anakin even admits to Palpatine that "my trust in them has been shaken" when they ask him to spy on the Chancellor, leading to Anakin's conversion into Darth Vader. Chancellor. It becomes a RebuiltPedestal by the end of his life, as he turns on Palpatine and saves his son, who proudly proclaimed himself a Jedi. As a Force spirit, he appears alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda dressed in Jedi robes.
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As seein the ObiWan series he was driven for vengence. previous version more balanced.
Changed line(s) 94 (click to see context) from:
* {{Angrish}}: After he gets maimed during a lightsaber duel with Obi-Wan that occurs on Mustafar, Anakin is reduced to screaming in agony and rage as he is consumed by flames.
to:
* {{Angrish}}: After he gets maimed during a lightsaber duel with Obi-Wan that occurs on Mustafar, Anakin is reduced to screaming in agony and rage as he is consumed by flames.flames and unable to take revenge on his former best friend.
Changed line(s) 96,97 (click to see context) from:
* AntiHero: Anakin is flawed, but he is still a good man. {{Deconstructed|CharacterArchetype}} through, since said flaws end up being exploited by Palpatine.
* AntiVillain: He becomes a cross between [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Types Woobie]] and [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well-Intentioned]] in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', turning to the dark side because of his emotional struggles and misguided attempt to [[KnightTemplar restore order to the galaxy]].
* AntiVillain: He becomes a cross between [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Types Woobie]] and [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well-Intentioned]] in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', turning to the dark side because of his emotional struggles and misguided attempt to [[KnightTemplar restore order to the galaxy]].
to:
* AntiHero: Anakin is flawed, arrogant, aggressive, and self-righteous even at his most moral, but he is still a good man. {{Deconstructed|CharacterArchetype}} through, since said flaws end up being through the fact that Anakin's less than heroic traits are exploited by Palpatine.
Palpatine in order to cause him to turn to the dark side and become a Sith Lord.
* AntiVillain: He becomes a cross between [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Types Woobie]] and [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well-Intentioned]] in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', turning to the dark side becauseof his emotional struggles LoveMakesYouEvil and misguided attempt he thinks it's the only way to [[KnightTemplar restore order to the galaxy]].
* AntiVillain: He becomes a cross between [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Types Woobie]] and [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well-Intentioned]] in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', turning to the dark side because
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No indication he was holding back with Obi Wan
Changed line(s) 443 (click to see context) from:
** His fighting ability is described by Nick Gillard to be on the same level as the likes of Yoda or Sidious, but he not only fails to Force push Kenobi away on Mustafar, but ends up losing in their duel. In Obi-Wan's series, Palpatine theorizes that Vader's inner conflict weakens him, which would also explain his duels against Ahsoka and Luke.
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** His fighting ability is described by Nick Gillard to be on the same level as the likes of Yoda or Sidious, but he not only fails to Force push Kenobi away on Mustafar, but ends up losing ultimately loses in their duel. In Obi-Wan's series, Palpatine theorizes It is possible that Vader's inner conflict weakens him, which would also explain he was subconsciously holding back, similar to his duels against Ahsoka and Luke. last duel with Luke.
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He didnt endure the lighting. It killed him outright as he didnt try to block it . Yoda did and diverted it
Deleted line(s) 139 (click to see context) :
** In ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. Once freed from the DarkSide, a badly injured Anakin outright defeated Palpatine by enduring his strongest lightning attacks, a feat even Master Yoda couldn't achieve.
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Seemingly trying to excuse the choice Anakin made as lack of sleep and worry? Also you cant get older and wiser as a force ghost as you are well, a ghost. His wisdom was gained as Darth Vader, the wisdom he shared was the wisdom untouched by the Dark Side. Also Vader was not distressed. Focused, angry and resentful but stable and focused.
Deleted line(s) 342 (click to see context) :
** His premonitions of the future did no favors whatsoever, depriving him of precious sleep time and installing great fear. Combined with heavy burdens as TheChosenOne, it's frankly no wonder why Anakin became so overwhelmed in ''Revenge of the Sith'', with his desperation to end the Clone Wars significantly increased.
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* OlderAndWiser: Subverted as Darth Vader, in regards to his wisdom. While appearing more stoic from being reconstructed as a cyborg, it's clear that he is extremely distressed and unstable. Only by completing his training as a Jedi in the afterlife did Anakin truly become this.
to:
* OlderAndWiser: Subverted as Played with as Darth Vader, in regards to his wisdom. While appearing Vader is more stoic from being reconstructed as a cyborg, focused, controlled and dangerous. But his outlook and wisdom is tainted by the darkside and it's clear influence. As a force ghost he retains that he is extremely distressed and unstable. Only by completing wisdom without his training as a Jedi in the afterlife did Anakin truly become this.former cynicism.
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". That said, by the time Anakin fulfills his destiny as The Chosen One, Obi-Wan has eased up with this assessment." No indication inshow that Obi-Wan has eased up on that assessment.
Changed line(s) 344 (click to see context) from:
* FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse: Obi-Wan tells Qui-Gon that while both of them share some blame in Anakin's turn to TheDarkSide, at the end of the day Anakin willingly chose it despite having the wisdom and better judgement to reject it. That said, by the time Anakin fulfills his destiny as TheChosenOne, Obi-Wan has eased up with this assessment.
to:
* FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse: Obi-Wan tells Qui-Gon that while both of them share some blame in Anakin's turn to TheDarkSide, at the end of the day Anakin willingly chose it despite having the wisdom and better judgement to reject it. That said, by the time Anakin fulfills his destiny as TheChosenOne, Obi-Wan has eased up with this assessment.
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As a young adult, he also wished to be freed from the Jedi Order's tight leash, which tragically led to his painful servitude as Darth Vader. Streamlining, seeming placing blame on the order instead of choices made
Changed line(s) 430 (click to see context) from:
* IJustWantToBeFree: As a child, Anakin was a slave and aspired to travel the galaxy. As a young adult, he also wished to be freed from the Jedi Order's tight leash, which tragically led to his painful servitude as Darth Vader.
to:
* IJustWantToBeFree: As a child, Anakin was a slave and aspired to travel the galaxy. As a young adult, he also wished to be freed from the Jedi Order's tight leash, which tragically led to his painful servitude as Darth Vader.
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WordOfGod from George Lucas during the Prequel commentary track the Jedi did not fail the Republic nor Anakin . https://david-talks-sw.tumblr.com/post/675094962898124800/gffa-hot-take-luke-skywalker-saying
Deleted line(s) 536 (click to see context) :
** Creator such as Dave Filioni plays with this, noting that while the Jedi teachings were meant for noble purposes, their attitude towards affection and attachment contributed to the Republic's downfall.
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The Jedi Council did not leave Shmi to be a slave. The outer rim is not their territory. That is just blaming them for doing nothing when others ( the Republic) could have done so. The Ashoka situation was political and even she agreed that no choice was had.
Also Jedi did not stay in the way of Peace as after they are gone, well you get the empire who gave order on the graves of billions. Order is not peace
- Values aside, Anakin's growing frustration at the Jedi Order's openly detached attitude isn't unwarranted, since it harbors incompetence and causes more harm than good. It's especially egregious considering how the Jedi Code espouses compassion, so this attitude is completely antithetical to their way of life.
- Values aside, Anakin's growing frustration at the Jedi Order's openly detached attitude isn't unwarranted, since it harbors incompetence and causes more harm than good. It's especially egregious considering how the Jedi Code espouses compassion, so this attitude is completely antithetical to their way of life.
- In a sense, Anakin's anger at Obi-Wan for Shmi's death holds some truth, if his emotions prevented him from making it out properly. Had Obi-Wan not dismissed Anakin's visions of the future beforehand, they might have been able to act sooner and saved her.
- In a sense, Anakin's anger at Obi-Wan for Shmi's death holds some truth, if his emotions prevented him from making it out properly. Had Obi-Wan not dismissed Anakin's visions of the future beforehand, they might have been able to act sooner and saved her.
- Anakin acting unconcerned if Count Dooku killed Queen Miraj may be against the Jedi Code, but who could blame him, honestly? Not only does she pridefully rule over a planet that practices slavery daily, an issue that understandably pisses Anakin off, she also captured his friends as a bargaining chip for Anakin to become her Sex Slave. Her slaves are also mistreated so badly that one even committed suicide. That said, since Anakin did express shock and upset over her death, he was likely bluffing.
- Anakin acting unconcerned if Count Dooku killed Queen Miraj may be against the Jedi Code, but who could blame him, honestly? Not only does she pridefully rule over a planet that practices slavery daily, an issue that understandably pisses Anakin off, she also captured his friends as a bargaining chip for Anakin to become her Sex Slave. Her slaves are also mistreated so badly that one even committed suicide. That said, since Anakin did express shock and upset over her death, he was likely bluffing.
- While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
- While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
Also Jedi did not stay in the way of Peace as after they are gone, well you get the empire who gave order on the graves of billions. Order is not peace
- When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin,
- When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin,
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The Jedi Council did not leave Shmi to be a slave. The outer rim is not their territory. That is just blaming them for doing nothing when others ( the Republic) could have done so. The Ashoka situation was political and even she agreed that no choice was had.
Also Jedi did not stay in the way of Peace as after they are gone, well you get the empire who gave order on the graves of billions. Order is not peace
- Values aside, Anakin's growing frustration at the Jedi Order's openly detached attitude isn't unwarranted, since it harbors incompetence and causes more harm than good. It's especially egregious considering how the Jedi Code espouses compassion, so this attitude is completely antithetical to their way of life.
- Values aside, Anakin's growing frustration at the Jedi Order's openly detached attitude isn't unwarranted, since it harbors incompetence and causes more harm than good. It's especially egregious considering how the Jedi Code espouses compassion, so this attitude is completely antithetical to their way of life.
- In a sense, Anakin's anger at Obi-Wan for Shmi's death holds some truth, if his emotions prevented him from making it out properly. Had Obi-Wan not dismissed Anakin's visions of the future beforehand, they might have been able to act sooner and saved her.
- In a sense, Anakin's anger at Obi-Wan for Shmi's death holds some truth, if his emotions prevented him from making it out properly. Had Obi-Wan not dismissed Anakin's visions of the future beforehand, they might have been able to act sooner and saved her.
- Anakin acting unconcerned if Count Dooku killed Queen Miraj may be against the Jedi Code, but who could blame him, honestly? Not only does she pridefully rule over a planet that practices slavery daily, an issue that understandably pisses Anakin off, she also captured his friends as a bargaining chip for Anakin to become her Sex Slave. Her slaves are also mistreated so badly that one even committed suicide. That said, since Anakin did express shock and upset over her death, he was likely bluffing.
- Anakin acting unconcerned if Count Dooku killed Queen Miraj may be against the Jedi Code, but who could blame him, honestly? Not only does she pridefully rule over a planet that practices slavery daily, an issue that understandably pisses Anakin off, she also captured his friends as a bargaining chip for Anakin to become her Sex Slave. Her slaves are also mistreated so badly that one even committed suicide. That said, since Anakin did express shock and upset over her death, he was likely bluffing.
- While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
- While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
Also Jedi did not stay in the way of Peace as after they are gone, well you get the empire who gave order on the graves of billions. Order is not peace
- When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin,
- When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin,
Deleted line(s) 471 (click to see context) :
** Anakin's grief towards the Jedi Council is justified. Despite years of loyal and grueling service, the council continue to treat him as a simple asset for their crusade, and are downright cruel at their worst. Similarly, Anakin's distrust is valid to an extent. [[ConceptsAreCheap For all the Jedi Order's influence and preachment]], they ended up doing some very shady things, such as: leave Shmi to be a slave under dangerous conditions, manipulate Anakin's grief when Obi-Wan [[FakingTheDead "died"]], and throw Ahsoka out of the Order when she was framed.
Changed line(s) 473,475 (click to see context) from:
** Values aside, Anakin's growing frustration at the Jedi Order's openly detached attitude isn't unwarranted, since it harbors incompetence and causes more harm than good. It's especially egregious considering how the Jedi Code ''espouses compassion'', so this attitude is completely antithetical to their way of life.
*** One good example is this [[Recap/StarWarsTheCloneWarsS2E6WeaponsFactory situation]]. When Ahsoka and Barriss fell into deadly trouble, Anakin's emotions compelled him to take immediate action. In contrast, Luminara's detachments initially [[SkewedPriorities made her focus on criticizing Anakin's outward concern, instead of helping the search team]]. Considering a Jedi's duty is to look out for their Padawans, Anakin's reaction was far more logical and moral.
** In a sense, Anakin's anger at Obi-Wan for Shmi's death holds some truth, [[TantrumThrowing if his emotions prevented him from making it out properly.]] Had Obi-Wan not dismissed Anakin's visions of the future beforehand, they might have been able to act sooner and saved her.
*** One good example is this [[Recap/StarWarsTheCloneWarsS2E6WeaponsFactory situation]]. When Ahsoka and Barriss fell into deadly trouble, Anakin's emotions compelled him to take immediate action. In contrast, Luminara's detachments initially [[SkewedPriorities made her focus on criticizing Anakin's outward concern, instead of helping the search team]]. Considering a Jedi's duty is to look out for their Padawans, Anakin's reaction was far more logical and moral.
** In a sense, Anakin's anger at Obi-Wan for Shmi's death holds some truth, [[TantrumThrowing if his emotions prevented him from making it out properly.]] Had Obi-Wan not dismissed Anakin's visions of the future beforehand, they might have been able to act sooner and saved her.
to:
** Values aside, Anakin's growing frustration at the Jedi Order's openly detached attitude isn't unwarranted, since it harbors incompetence and causes more harm than good. It's especially egregious considering how the Jedi Code ''espouses compassion'', so this attitude is completely antithetical to their way of life.
***One good example is this [[Recap/StarWarsTheCloneWarsS2E6WeaponsFactory situation]]. When Ahsoka and Barriss fell into deadly trouble, Anakin's emotions compelled him to take immediate action. In contrast, Luminara's detachments initially [[SkewedPriorities made her focus on criticizing Anakin's outward concern, instead of helping the search team]]. Considering a Jedi's duty is to look out for their Padawans, Anakin's reaction While aggressive in action he was far more logical and moral.
** In a sense, Anakin's anger at Obi-Wan for Shmi's death holds some truth, [[TantrumThrowing if his emotions prevented him from making it out properly.]] Had Obi-Wan not dismissed Anakin's visions of the future beforehand, they might have been able to act sooner and saved her.right that necessary action trumped detachment.
***
** In a sense, Anakin's anger at Obi-Wan for Shmi's death holds some truth, [[TantrumThrowing if his emotions prevented him from making it out properly.]] Had Obi-Wan not dismissed Anakin's visions of the future beforehand, they might have been able to act sooner and saved her.
Deleted line(s) 480 (click to see context) :
** Anakin acting unconcerned if Count Dooku killed Queen Miraj may be against the Jedi Code, but who could blame him, honestly? Not only does she pridefully rule over a planet that practices slavery daily, an issue that understandably pisses Anakin off, she also captured his friends as a bargaining chip for Anakin to become her SexSlave. Her slaves are also mistreated so badly that one even committed suicide. That said, since Anakin did express shock and upset over her death, he was likely bluffing.
Changed line(s) 482,487 (click to see context) from:
** For the unfinished "Crystal Crisis on Utapau" arc, he bluntly tells Obi-Wan that the Council gave Ahsoka no choice but to leave the Jedi Order, seeing as how quickly they threw her to Tarkin's non-existent mercy on flimsy evidence of guilt. [[NeverMyFault While Obi-Wan counters that Ahsoka's choice to leave was still her own]], Anakin raises up another point that it meant they failed as Ahsoka's Jedi mentors, especially in an emotional way.
** While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
*** Even more, once a Jedi Knight trains their Padawan to Knighthood, they become a Master. From Anakin's side of things, this means the Council already screwed him over this promotion by driving away Ahsoka.
*** Also, considering that the Council's reason for accepting Anakin as a member was solely so that they can "unofficially" use him as a spy towards Palpatine, Anakin wasn't exactly wrong to interpret such an act as "disrespectful" and "hypocritical".
** When temporarily corrupted by the Son, Anakin claims that the Jedi stand in the way of peace. While clearly stemming from an unsound mindset, there are strong merits to this statement. Not only does the Jedi Order allow highly dubious acts such as using Padawans as child soldiers, but they support the failing Republic and its equally poorly-planned actions (e.g. creating cloned humans to be a military force, ignoring the Outer Rim's immense problems, etc...). These actions are what largely led to the Empire's establishment.
** When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin, [[WrongForTheRightReasons and attempts to kill Palpatine after pointing out how much political power the Sith Lord holds]]. [[RightForTheWrongReasons Though mostly from being emotionally manipulated by Palpatine, Anakin's point is valid,]] considering how their Jedi Order is clearly unprepared to deal with the consequences of assassinating the Supreme Chancellor. Had the two Jedi acted less impulsively, they could have reached a better solution (ex: discussing the matter with every other Jedi Council member before taking decisive action).
** While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
*** Even more, once a Jedi Knight trains their Padawan to Knighthood, they become a Master. From Anakin's side of things, this means the Council already screwed him over this promotion by driving away Ahsoka.
*** Also, considering that the Council's reason for accepting Anakin as a member was solely so that they can "unofficially" use him as a spy towards Palpatine, Anakin wasn't exactly wrong to interpret such an act as "disrespectful" and "hypocritical".
** When temporarily corrupted by the Son, Anakin claims that the Jedi stand in the way of peace. While clearly stemming from an unsound mindset, there are strong merits to this statement. Not only does the Jedi Order allow highly dubious acts such as using Padawans as child soldiers, but they support the failing Republic and its equally poorly-planned actions (e.g. creating cloned humans to be a military force, ignoring the Outer Rim's immense problems, etc...). These actions are what largely led to the Empire's establishment.
** When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin, [[WrongForTheRightReasons and attempts to kill Palpatine after pointing out how much political power the Sith Lord holds]]. [[RightForTheWrongReasons Though mostly from being emotionally manipulated by Palpatine, Anakin's point is valid,]] considering how their Jedi Order is clearly unprepared to deal with the consequences of assassinating the Supreme Chancellor. Had the two Jedi acted less impulsively, they could have reached a better solution (ex: discussing the matter with every other Jedi Council member before taking decisive action).
to:
** For the unfinished "Crystal Crisis on Utapau" arc, he bluntly tells Obi-Wan that the Council gave Ahsoka no choice but to leave the Jedi Order, seeing as how quickly they threw her to Tarkin's non-existent mercy on flimsy evidence of guilt. [[NeverMyFault While Obi-Wan counters that Ahsoka's choice to leave was still her own]], Anakin raises up another point that it meant they failed as Ahsoka's Jedi mentors, especially in an emotional way.
** While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
*** Even more, once a Jedi Knight trains their Padawan to Knighthood, they become a Master. From Anakin's side of things, this means the Council already screwed him over this promotion by driving away Ahsoka.
*** Also, considering that the Council's reason for accepting Anakin as a member was solely so that they can "unofficially" use him as a spy towards Palpatine, Anakin wasn't exactly wrong to interpret such an act as "disrespectful" and "hypocritical".
** When temporarily corrupted by the Son, Anakin claims that the Jedi stand in the way of peace. While clearly stemming from an unsound mindset, there are strong merits to this statement. Not only does the Jedi Order allow highly dubious acts such as using Padawans as child soldiers, but they support the failing Republic and its equally poorly-planned actions (e.g. creating cloned humans to be a military force, ignoring the Outer Rim's immense problems, etc...). These actions are what largely led to the Empire's establishment.
** When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin, [[WrongForTheRightReasons and attempts to kill Palpatine after pointing out how much political power the Sith Lord holds]]. [[RightForTheWrongReasons Though mostly from being emotionally manipulated by Palpatine, Anakin's point is valid,]] considering how their Jedi Order is clearly unprepared to deal with the consequences of assassinating the Supreme Chancellor. Had the two Jedi acted less impulsively, they could have reached a better solution (ex: discussing the matter with every other Jedi Council member before taking decisive action).mentors.
** While his outburst showed that he wasn't ready for the job, Anakin's frustration at the Jedi Council for nonchalantly denying him the rank of "Master" is understandable, especially since he defeated Count Dooku just a day beforehand and turned the tide of the war in the Republic's favor. If the council wanted Anakin to comply, they should have at least explained their reasons more clearly to him. Had they done so, it could have even taught Anakin a lesson in humility.
*** Even more, once a Jedi Knight trains their Padawan to Knighthood, they become a Master. From Anakin's side of things, this means the Council already screwed him over this promotion by driving away Ahsoka.
*** Also, considering that the Council's reason for accepting Anakin as a member was solely so that they can "unofficially" use him as a spy towards Palpatine, Anakin wasn't exactly wrong to interpret such an act as "disrespectful" and "hypocritical".
** When temporarily corrupted by the Son, Anakin claims that the Jedi stand in the way of peace. While clearly stemming from an unsound mindset, there are strong merits to this statement. Not only does the Jedi Order allow highly dubious acts such as using Padawans as child soldiers, but they support the failing Republic and its equally poorly-planned actions (e.g. creating cloned humans to be a military force, ignoring the Outer Rim's immense problems, etc...). These actions are what largely led to the Empire's establishment.
** When Mace cornered Palpatine, Anakin insisted that he be arrested to stand trial, even citing the Jedi way. Mace Windu doesn't listen to Anakin, [[WrongForTheRightReasons and attempts to kill Palpatine after pointing out how much political power the Sith Lord holds]]. [[RightForTheWrongReasons Though mostly from being emotionally manipulated by Palpatine, Anakin's point is valid,]] considering how their Jedi Order is clearly unprepared to deal with the consequences of assassinating the Supreme Chancellor. Had the two Jedi acted less impulsively, they could have reached a better solution (ex: discussing the matter with every other Jedi Council member before taking decisive action).