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Hypocrite is not a YMMV trope.
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* {{Hypocrite}}: Each of the three main Reason Holders speak of how they believe the world should function, but each of them goes against their own ideals.
** Isamu follows the Reason of Musubi, a world where people should live in their own personal world, where no one relied on each other. However, Isamu only learned about Musubi and its Demonic Sponsor by the Amala Network, specifically by the various souls housed within. And he even relied on Hijiri and the Demi-Fiend to get the necessary Magatsuhi to summon Noah in the first place.
** Chiaki follows the Reason of Yosuga, a world that follows Social Darwinism, where the strong survive and have the power to shape the world while the weak live to serve the strong. But Chiaki herself is weak, even losing her arm to a Manikin, considered one of the weakest creatures in the Vortex World. She only becomes strong when a strong demon agrees with her ideals gives her his power. And even during [[spoiler:her battle as the Baal Avatar]], she summons two demons to assist her.
** Hikawa follows the Reason of Shijima, a world where free will and emotions are non-existent, everyone working together towards a singular goal and as a result, removing any conflict or strife and by extension, eradicate wars. But to even start the Conception so he can conceive his Reason, he started a war, slaughtering Gaians and Messians. And during one of his conversations with the Demi-Fiend, he expresses notable disgust towards the previous world. And for the first phase of the boss fight against [[spoilers:Ahriman]], he plays a "game", preventing the Demi-Fiend and his party from performing certain actions, wanting to "play" with the Demi-Fiend before killing him. And after losing a certain amount of health, he loses himself to his bloodlust and forgoes the "game" completely.
** Isamu follows the Reason of Musubi, a world where people should live in their own personal world, where no one relied on each other. However, Isamu only learned about Musubi and its Demonic Sponsor by the Amala Network, specifically by the various souls housed within. And he even relied on Hijiri and the Demi-Fiend to get the necessary Magatsuhi to summon Noah in the first place.
** Chiaki follows the Reason of Yosuga, a world that follows Social Darwinism, where the strong survive and have the power to shape the world while the weak live to serve the strong. But Chiaki herself is weak, even losing her arm to a Manikin, considered one of the weakest creatures in the Vortex World. She only becomes strong when a strong demon agrees with her ideals gives her his power. And even during [[spoiler:her battle as the Baal Avatar]], she summons two demons to assist her.
** Hikawa follows the Reason of Shijima, a world where free will and emotions are non-existent, everyone working together towards a singular goal and as a result, removing any conflict or strife and by extension, eradicate wars. But to even start the Conception so he can conceive his Reason, he started a war, slaughtering Gaians and Messians. And during one of his conversations with the Demi-Fiend, he expresses notable disgust towards the previous world. And for the first phase of the boss fight against [[spoilers:Ahriman]], he plays a "game", preventing the Demi-Fiend and his party from performing certain actions, wanting to "play" with the Demi-Fiend before killing him. And after losing a certain amount of health, he loses himself to his bloodlust and forgoes the "game" completely.
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* {{Hypocrite}}: Each of the three main Reason Holders speak of how they believe the world should function, but each of them goes against their own ideals.
**Isamu follows the Reason of Musubi, a world where people should live in their own personal world, where no one relied on each other. However, Isamu only learned about Musubi and its Demonic Sponsor by the Amala Network, specifically by the various souls housed within. And he even relied on Hijiri and the Demi-Fiend to get the necessary Magatsuhi to summon Noah in the first place.
**Chiaki follows the Reason of Yosuga, a world that follows Social Darwinism, where the strong survive and have the power to shape the world while the weak live to serve the strong. But Chiaki herself is weak, even losing her arm to a Manikin, considered one of the weakest creatures in the Vortex World. She only becomes strong when a strong demon agrees with her ideals gives her his power. And even during [[spoiler:her battle as the Baal Avatar]], she summons two demons to assist her.
**Hikawa follows the Reason of Shijima, a world where free will and emotions are non-existent, everyone working together towards a singular goal and as a result, removing any conflict or strife and by extension, eradicate wars. But to even start the Conception so he can conceive his Reason, he started a war, slaughtering Gaians and Messians. And during one of his conversations with the Demi-Fiend, he expresses notable disgust towards the previous world. And for the first phase of the boss fight against [[spoilers:Ahriman]], he plays a "game", preventing the Demi-Fiend and his party from performing certain actions, wanting to "play" with the Demi-Fiend before killing him. And after losing a certain amount of health, he loses himself to his bloodlust and forgoes the "game" completely.
**Isamu follows the Reason of Musubi, a world where people should live in their own personal world, where no one relied on each other. However, Isamu only learned about Musubi and its Demonic Sponsor by the Amala Network, specifically by the various souls housed within. And he even relied on Hijiri and the Demi-Fiend to get the necessary Magatsuhi to summon Noah in the first place.
**Chiaki follows the Reason of Yosuga, a world that follows Social Darwinism, where the strong survive and have the power to shape the world while the weak live to serve the strong. But Chiaki herself is weak, even losing her arm to a Manikin, considered one of the weakest creatures in the Vortex World. She only becomes strong when a strong demon agrees with her ideals gives her his power. And even during [[spoiler:her battle as the Baal Avatar]], she summons two demons to assist her.
**Hikawa follows the Reason of Shijima, a world where free will and emotions are non-existent, everyone working together towards a singular goal and as a result, removing any conflict or strife and by extension, eradicate wars. But to even start the Conception so he can conceive his Reason, he started a war, slaughtering Gaians and Messians. And during one of his conversations with the Demi-Fiend, he expresses notable disgust towards the previous world. And for the first phase of the boss fight against [[spoilers:Ahriman]], he plays a "game", preventing the Demi-Fiend and his party from performing certain actions, wanting to "play" with the Demi-Fiend before killing him. And after losing a certain amount of health, he loses himself to his bloodlust and forgoes the "game" completely.
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** Fiend Trumpeter became a bit of a retroactive EnsembleDarkhorse thanks to the "Mr. Skeltal" meme of a skeleton playing a trumpet.
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** A common issue in the original, to the point of being a meme, was the boss fight against Mot and his tendency to spam Dragon Eye several times to give himself more Press Turns, on top of using Makakaja to boost his magic before attacking with Megidolaon; sometimes without even giving the player their turn. But in the HD Remaster, Mot's AI was changed so that he very rarely uses Dragon Eye, making the fight much more fair.
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** A common issue in the original, to the point of being a meme, was the boss fight against Mot and his tendency to spam Dragon Beast Eye several times to give himself more Press Turns, on top of using Makakaja to boost his magic before attacking with Megidolaon; sometimes without even giving the player their turn. But in the HD Remaster, Mot's AI was changed so that he very rarely uses Dragon Eye, Beast Eye in any given fight, making the fight much more fair.
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** A common issue in the original, to the point of being a meme, was the boss fight against Mot and his tendency to spam Dragon Eye several times to give himself more Press Turns, on top of using Makakaja to boost his magic before attacking with Megidolaon; sometimes without even giving the player their turn. But in the HD Remaster, Mot's AI was changed so that he very rarely uses Dragon Eye, making the fight much more fair.
**Another source of complaint was the Junk Shop Manikin being a very offensive [[CampGay gay stereotype]]. While it may have been [[ValuesDissonance acceptable at the time]], it comes off as harmful and offensive today. The Manikin would speak as though he's flirting with the Demi-Fiend, even calling him a "cute little boy" and "hot stuff". But when talking with the Manikin, he'll become offended at the idea that the Demi-Fiend thinks he's "queer". In the HD Remaster, the Junk Shop Manikin's behavior and speech was changed to a more friendly and outgoing personality.
->Original: ''"...Don't tell me... You think I'm queer, too!? ...Yeesh!"''
->HD Remaster: ''"...Don't tell me... You were just window-shopping!? ...Sheesh!"''
**Another source of complaint was the Junk Shop Manikin being a very offensive [[CampGay gay stereotype]]. While it may have been [[ValuesDissonance acceptable at the time]], it comes off as harmful and offensive today. The Manikin would speak as though he's flirting with the Demi-Fiend, even calling him a "cute little boy" and "hot stuff". But when talking with the Manikin, he'll become offended at the idea that the Demi-Fiend thinks he's "queer". In the HD Remaster, the Junk Shop Manikin's behavior and speech was changed to a more friendly and outgoing personality.
->Original: ''"...Don't tell me... You think I'm queer, too!? ...Yeesh!"''
->HD Remaster: ''"...Don't tell me... You were just window-shopping!? ...Sheesh!"''
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* FanNickname: The phenomenon of Mot spamming Beast Eye to give itself a ludicrous number of turns and then using Megidolaon repeatedly to nuke the player's party senseless is known by Japanese players as "Mot's Drama".
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Trope expanded.
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*** Is Yuko's failure to conceive a reason really the result of her own self-doubt, or is that claim just Hikawa being petty? Every human who created a Reason did so only after gathering an enormous amount of Magatsuhi. Yuko attempted to accomplish this as well by obtaining the Yahiro no Himorogi, however, this plan failed purely because of Sakahagi draining its power before she could obtain it. It's very easy to read her not being able to form a Reason not because of a personal weakness on her part, but because of a Sakhagi's interference.
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** While all three Reasons could qualify, Chiaki tends to get this the most. Whereas Hikawa starts and ends the game just as evil as he seems and Isamu quickly gains an apathetic personality that turns many players away, Chiaki, on the other hand, starts off somewhat smug before the Conception, only to fall apart when the world collapses. Instead of joining you however, her pride turns her away from helping you, and every subsequent scene characterizes her as pettier and pettier until she's declaring her superiority over all else who won't join her cause. On the other hand, she's easily the most friendly human towards the Demi-Fiend if you agree with her, and expresses some OnlySaneMan traits before and early during the Conception. Her downward spiral can be cathartic to watch until she [[spoiler:slaughters the Manikins]], at which point the player will likely [[LoveToHate want to see her pay for all she's done]]. As a result, Chiaki tends to be either sympathetic for the above events, or solidified into the most unlikable human in the cast.
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** While all three Reasons could qualify, Chiaki tends to get this the most. Whereas Hikawa starts and ends the game just as evil as he seems and Isamu quickly gains an apathetic personality that turns many players away, Chiaki, on the other hand, starts off somewhat smug before the Conception, only to fall apart when the world collapses. Instead of joining you however, her pride turns her away from helping you, and every subsequent scene characterizes her as pettier and pettier until she's declaring her superiority over all else who won't join her cause. On the other hand, she's easily the most friendly human towards the Demi-Fiend if you agree with her, and expresses some OnlySaneMan traits before and early during the Conception. Her downward spiral can be cathartic to watch until she [[spoiler:slaughters [[spoiler:[[MoralEventHorizon slaughters the Manikins]], Manikins]]]], at which point the player will likely [[LoveToHate want to see her pay for all she's done]]. As a result, Chiaki tends to be either sympathetic for the above events, or solidified into the most unlikable human in the cast.
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** "Sorry, but I can't just join you." If you want to recruit a demon, prepare yourself to see this a lot and tear your hair out, since it means the demon will keep all the Macca and items you gave it and leave without joining you. There's nothing you can do to prevent this and it's completely random.
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** "Sorry, but I can't just join you." If you want to recruit a demon, prepare yourself to see this a lot and tear your hair out, since it means the demon will keep all the Macca and items you gave it and leave without joining you. There's nothing you can do to prevent this and it's It's completely random.random, and while certain demon skills can prevent demons from leaving for ''certain'' reasons, it's not guaranteed.
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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: ''Nocturne'''s jump to full 3D was a turning point for truly modernizing the franchise in ways that can be hard to appreciate. This was the first game in the series to completely do away with Magnetite, which meant you no longer had to count your steps to keep your summoned demons. Speaking of summons, the COMP conceit that had been a prior series staple is done away with here, which removed layers of submenus that were infamously frustrating to bring up in the SNES titles. With that gone, you now have a much simpler and intuitive UI, with an auto-updating minimap that's always onscreen with more detailed landmarks. To say nothing of a simple, precise camera and directional controls in true third-person (no more getting lost in first-person hallways). However, later games added even more improvements, such as the ability to save anywhere, check buff/debuff levels, or look at demons' resistances without wasting a turn using an EnemyScan spell, whose absence attracted some criticism when the HD Remaster came out.
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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: ''Nocturne'''s jump to full 3D was a turning point for truly modernizing the franchise in ways that can be hard to appreciate. This was the first game in the series to completely do away with Magnetite, which meant you no longer had to count your steps to keep your summoned demons. Speaking of summons, the COMP conceit that had been a prior series staple is done away with here, which removed layers of submenus that were infamously frustrating to bring up in the SNES titles. With that gone, you now have a much simpler and intuitive UI, with an auto-updating minimap that's always onscreen with more detailed landmarks. To say nothing of a simple, precise camera and directional controls in true third-person (no more getting lost in first-person hallways). However, later games added even more improvements, such as the ability to save anywhere, respawn after dying, check buff/debuff levels, or look at demons' resistances without wasting a turn using an EnemyScan spell, whose absence attracted some criticism when the HD Remaster came out.
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* MoralEventHorizon: The Yosuga faction [[spoiler:massacring the Manikins at Mifunashiro]] makes it clear what kind of atrocities the Reason holders are willing to commit for the sake of their world, and that you should probably think of [[TakeAThirdOption finding an alternative]] instead of helping them if you don't want to be a full-on VillainProtagonist.
** [[SerialKiller Sakahagi]] summoning [[CruelElephant Girimekhala]], a giant, one-eyed elephant, is pretty ominous. Then Girimekhala blinks, which makes a cartoony sound effect like a chick chirping.
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* SacredCow: Criticising anything about this game around die-hard SMT fans tends to end badly.
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* SacredCow: Criticising Criticizing anything about this game around die-hard SMT fans tends to end badly.
** "Sorry, but I can't just join you." If you want to recruit a demon, prepare yourself to see this a lot and tear your hair out, since it means the demon will keep all the Macca and items you gave it and leave without joining you. There's nothing you can do to prevent this and it's completely random.
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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: ''Nocturne'''s jump to full 3D was a turning point for truly modernizing the franchise in ways that can be hard to appreciate. This was the first game in the series to completely do away with Magnatite, which meant you no longer had to count your steps to keep your summoned demons. Speaking of summons, the COMP conceit that had been a prior series staple is done away with here, which removed layers of submenus that were infamously frustrating to bring up in the SNES titles. With that gone, you now have a much simpler and intuitive UI, with an auto-updating minimap that's always onscreen with more detailed landmarks. To say nothing of a simple, precise camera and directional controls in true third-person (no more getting lost in first-person hallways).
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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: ''Nocturne'''s jump to full 3D was a turning point for truly modernizing the franchise in ways that can be hard to appreciate. This was the first game in the series to completely do away with Magnatite, Magnetite, which meant you no longer had to count your steps to keep your summoned demons. Speaking of summons, the COMP conceit that had been a prior series staple is done away with here, which removed layers of submenus that were infamously frustrating to bring up in the SNES titles. With that gone, you now have a much simpler and intuitive UI, with an auto-updating minimap that's always onscreen with more detailed landmarks. To say nothing of a simple, precise camera and directional controls in true third-person (no more getting lost in first-person hallways). However, later games added even more improvements, such as the ability to save anywhere, check buff/debuff levels, or look at demons' resistances without wasting a turn using an EnemyScan spell, whose absence attracted some criticism when the HD Remaster came out.
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* BreatherLevel: After the sheer hell that is the Fourth Kalpa, with its cursed hallways and absolutely brutal boss, the Fifth Kalpa is very tame in comparison. The first three floors is straightforward and has a lot of low- and mid-level enemies that will give you no problems, and the fourth floor only needs you to have a good combination of demons with the right stats to fully navigate. More than that, you get the opportunity to recruit both Dante/Raidou and the super Pixie, both of whom are incredibly powerful and likely of significantly higher levels than you (and the latter can trivialize the fourth floor's entire gimmick).
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* BreatherLevel: BreatherLevel:
** After the sheer hell that is the Fourth Kalpa, with its cursed hallways and absolutely brutal boss, the Fifth Kalpa is very tame in comparison. The first three floors is straightforward and has a lot of low- and mid-level enemies that will give you no problems, and the fourth floor only needs you to have a good combination of demons with the right stats to fully navigate. More than that, you get the opportunity to recruit both Dante/Raidou and the super Pixie, both of whom are incredibly powerful and likely of significantly higher levels than you (and the latter can trivialize the fourth floor's entiregimmick).gimmick).
** Depending on the order you do them, the Black Temple of the Amala Temple comes as this, due to lacking the TrialAndErrorGameplay of the White and Red Temples. Instead of navigating a complex maze of teleporters or avoiding invisible traps, you just have to cast Lightoma to dispel the Temple's BlackoutBasement status and jump from a hole on the upper floor to open a way to the basement.
** After the sheer hell that is the Fourth Kalpa, with its cursed hallways and absolutely brutal boss, the Fifth Kalpa is very tame in comparison. The first three floors is straightforward and has a lot of low- and mid-level enemies that will give you no problems, and the fourth floor only needs you to have a good combination of demons with the right stats to fully navigate. More than that, you get the opportunity to recruit both Dante/Raidou and the super Pixie, both of whom are incredibly powerful and likely of significantly higher levels than you (and the latter can trivialize the fourth floor's entire
** Depending on the order you do them, the Black Temple of the Amala Temple comes as this, due to lacking the TrialAndErrorGameplay of the White and Red Temples. Instead of navigating a complex maze of teleporters or avoiding invisible traps, you just have to cast Lightoma to dispel the Temple's BlackoutBasement status and jump from a hole on the upper floor to open a way to the basement.
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1. Stop making unclear edit reasons just to force a meme. 2. Stop deleting things without an edit reason (didn't apply to this).
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* HilariousInHindsight:
** ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter 4 Ultimate'' also features Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series.[[note]]Though it's just Palico armor themed after him as part of a monthly DLC campaign.[[/note]]
** As of 2019, Dante has returned to the franchise in VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiLiberationDx2, as part of a cross promotion between that game and VideoGame/DevilMayCry5.
** When the reveal for the ''HD Remaster'' showed Raidou, many made jokes on how the Dante meme would no longer be applicable. It would later be revealed that Dante was coming back via paid DLC, rendering it all moot.
** ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter 4 Ultimate'' also features Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series.[[note]]Though it's just Palico armor themed after him as part of a monthly DLC campaign.[[/note]]
** As of 2019, Dante has returned to the franchise in VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiLiberationDx2, as part of a cross promotion between that game and VideoGame/DevilMayCry5.
** When the reveal for the ''HD Remaster'' showed Raidou, many made jokes on how the Dante meme would no longer be applicable. It would later be revealed that Dante was coming back via paid DLC, rendering it all moot.
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One more lyric rejected.
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** The music track that plays during a number of scripted battle sequences with the iconic "One more god rejected!" line is often referred to as "Fierce Battle" by fans. This is actually a mistranslation. The actual title of the song translates to "Forced Battle."[[note]]([[https://vgmsite.com/soundtracks/shin-megami-tensei-iii-nocturne-original-soundtrack/Case%20Back.jpg The tracklist on the Japanese album]] refers to the song as "Kyōsei sentō," which literally translates to "forced combat." The [[https://www.game-ost.ru/albums/15740/shin_megami_tensei_nocturne_original_soundtrack/ limited western release]] of the album also supports this.[[/note]] Even the Megami Tensei wiki uses the incorrect name. A later analysis of the lyrics also revealed the iconic line above is more likely: "war broke out in heaven."
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** The music track that plays during a number of scripted battle sequences with the iconic "One more god rejected!" line is often referred to as "Fierce Battle" by fans. This is actually a mistranslation. The mistranslation; the actual title of the song song, "Kyōsei sentō", translates to "Forced Battle."[[note]]([[https://vgmsite.com/soundtracks/shin-megami-tensei-iii-nocturne-original-soundtrack/Case%20Back.jpg The tracklist on Battle", the Japanese album]] refers to name used by the song as "Kyōsei sentō," which literally translates to "forced combat." The [[https://www.game-ost.ru/albums/15740/shin_megami_tensei_nocturne_original_soundtrack/ limited western Western release]] of the album also supports this.[[/note]] Even the Megami Tensei wiki uses the incorrect name. A later analysis album. In addition, "One more god rejected" is a mishearing of the lyrics also revealed the iconic line above is more likely: "war actual line, "War broke out in heaven."heaven".
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* HilariousInHindsight:
** ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter 4 Ultimate'' also features Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series.[[note]]Though it's just Palico armor themed after him as part of a monthly DLC campaign.[[/note]]
** As of 2019, Dante has returned to the franchise in VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiLiberationDx2, as part of a cross promotion between that game and VideoGame/DevilMayCry5.
** When the reveal for the ''HD Remaster'' showed Raidou, many made jokes on how the Dante meme would no longer be applicable. It would later be revealed that Dante was coming back via paid DLC, rendering it all moot.
** ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter 4 Ultimate'' also features Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series.[[note]]Though it's just Palico armor themed after him as part of a monthly DLC campaign.[[/note]]
** As of 2019, Dante has returned to the franchise in VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiLiberationDx2, as part of a cross promotion between that game and VideoGame/DevilMayCry5.
** When the reveal for the ''HD Remaster'' showed Raidou, many made jokes on how the Dante meme would no longer be applicable. It would later be revealed that Dante was coming back via paid DLC, rendering it all moot.
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* MainstreamObscurity: While ''Nocturne'' helped usher ''Megaten'' into western audiences alongside ''VideoGame/Persona3'', it didn't end up becoming a CashCowFranchise thanks to ''Persona'' becoming the MorePopularSpinoff with the further releases of ''Persona 4'' and ''5''. Instead, the three things people know about the game are the Demi-Fiend's somewhat iconic design, there is a song that yells "One More God Rejected!" and that it features Dante from ''Devil May Cry''. While ''Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry'' transcended into a legendary meme amongst gamers and shitposters, enough time has past for many using the meme to forget what game Dante was being even featured in. The HD remaster however did recall attention to the game when it was streamed in front of a mass audience during a Nintendo Mini Direct.
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* MainstreamObscurity: While ''Nocturne'' helped usher ''Megaten'' into western audiences alongside ''VideoGame/Persona3'', it didn't end up becoming a CashCowFranchise thanks to ''Persona'' becoming the MorePopularSpinoff with the further releases of ''Persona 4'' and ''5''. Instead, the three things people know about the game are the Demi-Fiend's somewhat iconic design, that there is a song that yells "One More God Rejected!" [-(which isn't the actual line, but that's not the point)-], and that it features Dante from ''Devil May Cry''. While ''Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry'' transcended into a legendary meme amongst gamers and shitposters, enough time has past passed for many using the meme to forget what game Dante was being even featured in. The HD remaster however did recall attention to the game when it was streamed in front of a mass audience during a Nintendo Mini Direct.
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** "One more god rejected", a line from the Forced Battle theme and often shows up when talking about the game, frequently as a form of BadassBoast. [[note]]However, it turns out that the actual line was "War Broke Out in Heaven"[[/note]]
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** "One more god rejected", a misquoted line from the Forced Battle theme and which often shows up when talking about the game, frequently as a form of BadassBoast. [[note]]However, it turns out that the actual line was "War Broke Out in Heaven"[[/note]] BadassBoast.
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** With the ''HD Remaster'' being based on the ''Chronicle Edition'', [[VideoGame/RaidouKuzunohaVsTheSoullessArmy Raidou Kuzunoha]] replacing Dante has drawn several jokes about [[https://twitter.com/ErickDot7/status/1285223286473990144 Dante finding out he was replaced]]. Someone even made a [[https://twitter.com/UltimaShadowX/status/1285239834202841089 "Featuring Raidou from the Shin Megami Tensei series" edit.]] Later became HilariousInHindsight when Dante was confirmed as DLC.
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** With the ''HD Remaster'' being based on the ''Chronicle Edition'', [[VideoGame/RaidouKuzunohaVsTheSoullessArmy Raidou Kuzunoha]] replacing Dante has drawn several jokes about [[https://twitter.com/ErickDot7/status/1285223286473990144 Dante finding out he was replaced]]. Someone even made a [[https://twitter.com/UltimaShadowX/status/1285239834202841089 "Featuring Raidou from the Shin Megami Tensei series" edit.]] Later became HilariousInHindsight when Dante was confirmed as DLC.]]
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What An Idiot is now considered flame bait.
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* WhatAnIdiot:
** Ongyo-ki. As long as you keep hitting the real one, he'll do very little besides buff himself. He even does this after the effects are maxed out.
** Chiaki and Isamu. Seeing how strong their school friend has become, you'd think they'd consider coming with you. Even if they recognized the Demi-Fiend has changed, given how horrific the new world is, they're not exactly in a position to be picky. Especially the case for Chiaki, who you encounter early on before she or Isamu have found their Reasons, she could've avoided a lot of hardship if she hadn't decided to go it alone.
** Ongyo-ki. As long as you keep hitting the real one, he'll do very little besides buff himself. He even does this after the effects are maxed out.
** Chiaki and Isamu. Seeing how strong their school friend has become, you'd think they'd consider coming with you. Even if they recognized the Demi-Fiend has changed, given how horrific the new world is, they're not exactly in a position to be picky. Especially the case for Chiaki, who you encounter early on before she or Isamu have found their Reasons, she could've avoided a lot of hardship if she hadn't decided to go it alone.
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** Fans can't seem to agree on which ending is better: the True Demon ending or the Freedom ending. People who prefer the former find the opportunity to fight God to [[SignatureScene not only]] [[RuleOfCool be awesome]], but justified and cathartic considering that the Great Will is the one who set up the Conception system in the first place. They also believe that the Freedom ending is worse because simply resetting the world means that the Conception will happen eventually, which means that the Demi-Fiend accomplished nothing. Those that like the latter ending believe that Freedom feels more in line with a ''Shin Megami Tensei'' story, being the closest to an actual neutral ending (which are usually considered canon anyway) and that going for the True Demon ending means technically serving Lucifer (thus having no true freedom) and that there is no guarantee that the Chaos faction would even win the final battle. Additionally, Demi-Fiend is not {{Depowered}} in the Freedom ending, meaning that he could protect the world every time Kagutsuchi attacks, assuming he lives long enough for its inevitable return.
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** Fans can't seem to agree on which ending is better: the True Demon ending or the Freedom ending. People who prefer the former find the opportunity to fight God to [[SignatureScene not only]] [[RuleOfCool be awesome]], but justified and cathartic considering that the Great Will is the one who set up the Conception system in the first place. They also believe that the Freedom ending is worse because simply resetting the world means that the Conception will happen again eventually, which means that the Demi-Fiend accomplished nothing. Those that like the latter ending believe that Freedom feels more in line with a ''Shin Megami Tensei'' story, being the closest to an actual neutral ending (which are usually considered canon anyway) and that going for the True Demon ending means technically serving Lucifer (thus having no true freedom) and that there is no guarantee that the Chaos faction would even win the final battle. Additionally, Demi-Fiend is not {{Depowered}} in the Freedom ending, meaning that he could protect the world every time Kagutsuchi attacks, assuming he lives long enough for its inevitable return.
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** Mot. He can use Beast Eye, but plenty of other bosses can, too. Unlike them, however, Mot isn't designed to do anything specific with Beast Eye - it's just a regular move to him, unlike most other times you run into it or Dragon Eye, so if you're unlucky he will chain Beast Eyes for a long string of Press Turns. Mot can also combine spamming Beast Eye with Makakaja and Megidolaon, meaning he can wipe out your team without you getting a single move.
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** Mot. He can use Beast Eye, but plenty of other bosses can, too. Unlike them, however, Mot isn't designed to do anything specific with Beast Eye - it's just a regular move to him, unlike most other times you run into it or Dragon Eye, so if you're unlucky he will chain Beast Eyes for a long string of Press Turns. Mot can also combine spamming Beast Eye with Makakaja and Megidolaon, meaning he can wipe out your team without you getting a single move. As if that wasn't bad enough, he takes 90% less damage from physical attacks, voids Fire, drains Ice and repels Force, so Electricity(which, admittedly, he is weak against) is your only viable means of defeating him.
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* GoddamnedBoss: If you come prepared and don't have Focus, Pierce, and Freikugel, Noah. [[BarrierChangeBoss Aurora]] causes the fight to drag on longer than it has to. If you're unprepared or don't know the pattern of his weaknesses, he delves into ThatOneBoss territory.
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* GoddamnedBoss: GoddamnedBoss:
** If you come prepared and don't have Focus, Pierce, and Freikugel, Noah. [[BarrierChangeBoss Aurora]] causes the fight to drag on longer than it has to. If you're unprepared or don't know the pattern of his weaknesses, he delves into ThatOneBossterritory.territory.
** If you challenge Matador with a party of demons that are immune to Force, you still have to contend with him using Red Capote to raise his evasion more quickly than you can lower it. As a result, he's unlikely to do much damage to you, but is difficult to damage himself.
** If you come prepared and don't have Focus, Pierce, and Freikugel, Noah. [[BarrierChangeBoss Aurora]] causes the fight to drag on longer than it has to. If you're unprepared or don't know the pattern of his weaknesses, he delves into ThatOneBoss
** If you challenge Matador with a party of demons that are immune to Force, you still have to contend with him using Red Capote to raise his evasion more quickly than you can lower it. As a result, he's unlikely to do much damage to you, but is difficult to damage himself.
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* ThatOnePuzzle: Near the top of the Obelisk, you have another Kagutsuchi tile puzzle- stepping on tiles advances Kagutsuchi, and certan doors can only be passed if Kagutsuchi is at Full or Half- in which you must reach and defeat all the Moirae Sisters before you can proceed. There is no room for mistakes, and if you abort the puzzle or run out of time(i.e. Kagutsuchi cycles back to New), you will have to start the puzzle over from the beginning and defeat any of the sisters you've already fought. Worse, the sisters flee from battle when they're beaten, since the actual fight with them is at the end of the Obelisk, and give no experience or money.
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* CheeseStrategy: Due to Aciel's focus on physical attacks, he can be beaten solely by reflecting his attacks. In fact, it's possible to beat Aciel without using a single damaging move and simply reflecting his attacks to make Aciel kill himself, as seen [[https://youtu.be/JmudynmUDxI here]].
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** "One more god rejected", a line from the Fierce Battle theme and often shows up when talking about the game, frequently as a form of BadassBoast.
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** "One more god rejected", a line from the Fierce Forced Battle theme and often shows up when talking about the game, frequently as a form of BadassBoast.BadassBoast. [[note]]However, it turns out that the actual line was "War Broke Out in Heaven"[[/note]]
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** After the last and most difficult Reason boss Baal Avatar comes the FinalBoss, Kagutsuchi. Compared to Baal Avatar, Kagutsuchi doesn't have much in the way of annoying gimmicks and doesn't react much to buffs or debuffs, only relying on damage numbers to pose a threat. Fully buffing and debuffing turns the fight into a cakewalk.
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** After the last and most difficult Reason boss boss, Baal Avatar Avatar, comes the FinalBoss, Kagutsuchi. Compared to Baal Avatar, Kagutsuchi doesn't have much in the way of annoying gimmicks and doesn't react much to buffs or debuffs, only relying on damage numbers to pose a threat. Fully buffing and debuffing turns the fight into a cakewalk.
* ItsHardSoItSucks: To some, the various {{Scrappy Mechanic}}s that increase difficulty, especially some of those that are unique to Hard mode, end up making the game more frustrating rather than challenging.
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** Lucifer's deadliest attack is, of all things, his ''normal attack''. It's unavoidable, is almighty so you can't negate it, and has an abnormally high critical rate. If the AIRoulette rolls unfavorably against you he can land many critical hits in a row to pummel a party member of his choice into the ground, especially while you're just recovering from his previous slew of attacks.
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** Lucifer's deadliest attack is, [[BoringButPractical of all things, things]], his ''normal attack''. It's unavoidable, is almighty so you can't negate it, and has an abnormally high critical rate. If the AIRoulette rolls unfavorably against you he can land many critical hits in a row to pummel a party member of his choice into the ground, especially while you're just recovering from his previous slew of attacks.
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* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: With the HD remaster getting voice acting added, a lot of the demon voice-lines and grunts were changed to a fresh set. Suffice to say, many fans were not impressed with the new ones, feeling that they lack the impact and character of the old ones. Thor, Daisoujou and Metatron are commonly sited as those hit by this the worst.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Fans of Dante and ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' point out that it would be not in line for him to follow the Demi-Fiend into the [[spoiler: true demon ending]] given his character and that within the game itself he's suspicious of the Old Man's actions and motives that relate to Demi-Fiend. This is largely due to Dante's main role in the story ending by that point, with him just being another party member, with the belief there was a missed opportunity for him to speak up or turn against the Demi-Fiend if he went with [[spoiler: the true demon ending.]]
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Fans of Dante and ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' point out that it would be not in line for him to follow the Demi-Fiend into the [[spoiler: true demon ending]] given his character and that within the game itself he's suspicious of the Old Man's actions and motives that relate to Demi-Fiend. This is largely due to Dante's main role in the story ending by that point, with him just being another party member, with the belief there was a missed opportunity for him to speak up or turn against the Demi-Fiend if he went with [[spoiler: the true demon ending.]]
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* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: With the HD remaster getting voice acting added, a lot of the demon voice-lines and grunts were changed to a fresh set. Suffice to say, many fans were not impressed with the new ones, feeling that they lack the impact and character of the old ones. Thor, Daisoujou and Metatron are commonly sited cited as those hit by this the worst.
*TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot:
** Fans of Dante and ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' point out that it would be not in line for him to follow the Demi-Fiend into the [[spoiler: true demon ending]] given his character and that within the game itself he's suspicious of the Old Man's actions and motives that relate to Demi-Fiend. This is largely due to Dante's main role in the story ending by that point, with him just being another party member, with the belief there was a missed opportunity for him to speak up or turn against the Demi-Fiend if he went with [[spoiler: the true demon ending.]]
*
** Fans of Dante and ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' point out that it would be not in line for him to follow the Demi-Fiend into the [[spoiler: true demon ending]] given his character and that within the game itself he's suspicious of the Old Man's actions and motives that relate to Demi-Fiend. This is largely due to Dante's main role in the story ending by that point, with him just being another party member, with the belief there was a missed opportunity for him to speak up or turn against the Demi-Fiend if he went with [[spoiler: the true demon ending.]]
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: While it ''is'' revealed that Yuko [[spoiler:was manipulated by Hikawa into being a vessel for siphoning magatsuhi and later a sacrifice]], it doesn't change the fact that she knowingly and willingly helped to initiate the Conception, which ''killed off seven billion people''. Yet the Demi-Fiend still tries to save her.
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* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: While it ''is'' revealed that Yuko [[spoiler:was manipulated by Hikawa into being a vessel for siphoning magatsuhi and later a sacrifice]], it doesn't change the fact that she knowingly and willingly helped to initiate the Conception, which ''killed off seven billion people''. Yet the Demi-Fiend still tries to save her.
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** The music track that plays during a number of scripted battle sequences with the iconic "One more god rejected!" line is often referred to as "Fierce Battle" by fans. This is actually a mistranslation. The actual title of the song translates to "Forced Battle."[[note]]([[https://vgmsite.com/soundtracks/shin-megami-tensei-iii-nocturne-original-soundtrack/Case%20Back.jpg The tracklist on the Japanese album]] refers to the song as "Kyōsei sentō," which literally translates to "forced combat." The [[https://www.game-ost.ru/albums/15740/shin_megami_tensei_nocturne_original_soundtrack/ limited western release]] of the album also supports this.[[/note]] Even the Megami Tensei wiki uses the incorrect name.
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** The music track that plays during a number of scripted battle sequences with the iconic "One more god rejected!" line is often referred to as "Fierce Battle" by fans. This is actually a mistranslation. The actual title of the song translates to "Forced Battle."[[note]]([[https://vgmsite.com/soundtracks/shin-megami-tensei-iii-nocturne-original-soundtrack/Case%20Back.jpg The tracklist on the Japanese album]] refers to the song as "Kyōsei sentō," which literally translates to "forced combat." The [[https://www.game-ost.ru/albums/15740/shin_megami_tensei_nocturne_original_soundtrack/ limited western release]] of the album also supports this.[[/note]] Even the Megami Tensei wiki uses the incorrect name. A later analysis of the lyrics also revealed the iconic line above is more likely: "war broke out in heaven."
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Dante. Some fans find him and his scenes badass, and love his inclusion in the game as both a boss ''and'' a recruitable character. Others, however, argue that he doesn't fit in with the game's overall tone and that his actions are immersion-breaking.
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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Dante. Some fans find him and his scenes badass, and love his inclusion in the game as both a boss ''and'' a recruitable character. Others, however, argue that he doesn't fit in with the game's overall tone and that his actions are immersion-breaking.
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* BaseBreakingCharacter: BaseBreakingCharacter:
Dante. Some fans find him and his scenes badass, and love his inclusion in the game as both a boss ''and'' a recruitable character. Others, however, argue that he doesn't fit in with the game's overall tone and that his actions areimmersion-breaking.immersion-breaking.
** While all three Reasons could qualify, Chiaki tends to get this the most. Whereas Hikawa starts and ends the game just as evil as he seems and Isamu quickly gains an apathetic personality that turns many players away, Chiaki, on the other hand, starts off somewhat smug before the Conception, only to fall apart when the world collapses. Instead of joining you however, her pride turns her away from helping you, and every subsequent scene characterizes her as pettier and pettier until she's declaring her superiority over all else who won't join her cause. On the other hand, she's easily the most friendly human towards the Demi-Fiend if you agree with her, and expresses some OnlySaneMan traits before and early during the Conception. Her downward spiral can be cathartic to watch until she [[spoiler:slaughters the Manikins]], at which point the player will likely [[LoveToHate want to see her pay for all she's done]]. As a result, Chiaki tends to be either sympathetic for the above events, or solidified into the most unlikable human in the cast.
Dante. Some fans find him and his scenes badass, and love his inclusion in the game as both a boss ''and'' a recruitable character. Others, however, argue that he doesn't fit in with the game's overall tone and that his actions are
** While all three Reasons could qualify, Chiaki tends to get this the most. Whereas Hikawa starts and ends the game just as evil as he seems and Isamu quickly gains an apathetic personality that turns many players away, Chiaki, on the other hand, starts off somewhat smug before the Conception, only to fall apart when the world collapses. Instead of joining you however, her pride turns her away from helping you, and every subsequent scene characterizes her as pettier and pettier until she's declaring her superiority over all else who won't join her cause. On the other hand, she's easily the most friendly human towards the Demi-Fiend if you agree with her, and expresses some OnlySaneMan traits before and early during the Conception. Her downward spiral can be cathartic to watch until she [[spoiler:slaughters the Manikins]], at which point the player will likely [[LoveToHate want to see her pay for all she's done]]. As a result, Chiaki tends to be either sympathetic for the above events, or solidified into the most unlikable human in the cast.
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With Shin Megami Tensei V revealing this game's universe is one of many universes which went through the Conception, as confirmed by Koshimizu/Tsukuyomi during the summit of Bethel, the notion that "Demi-fiend destroyed the Amala" can no longer be confirmed true (as SMT V universe remained intact for untold amount of years before it underwent the Conception 18 years prior to the beginning of the story; if the Demi-fiend destroyed the whole of Amala there won't be any universe left for the Conception to happen). With this revelation, any new addition to this trope must be strictly based on what is stated and implied throughout the games.
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* DracoInLeatherPants: Lucifer and the True Demon Demi-Fiend get this a lot. Sure, fighting in the name of free will and stopping the Conception from ever happening again is noble, but you have to remember that you do this by '''destroying an entire multiverse and killing more people than the human mind can possibly count.''' Just to reinforce how destructive you've become, Kagutsuchi isn't just dark during the fight with Lucifer. It's cracked in half. Instead of a phase counter, it's just listed as "Dead". Congratulations, you just [[WhatTheHellPlayer permanently destroyed all light in existence]]. [[SarcasmMode We're sure getting Pierce was worth it]]. This got worse when the creators themselves made [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV SMT IV]]'s BadEnd into pretty much the exact same thing and people '''still didn't get it'''; it's even called "Nothingness Ending" for how utterly pointless it actually is. Though, as in [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse SMT IVA]]'s "Messiahs of Diamond Realm" [[DownloadableContent DLC]] the True Demon Ending Demi-fiend is being indirectly supported by the ProHumanTransHuman Stephen, it can be interpreted as the creators outright embracing this trope or defying it, depending on whether or not one considers it a plot hole or a plot point.
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* DracoInLeatherPants: Lucifer and the True Demon Demi-Fiend get this a lot. Sure, fighting in the name of free will and stopping the Conception from ever happening again is noble, but you have to remember that you do this by '''destroying an entire multiverse and killing more people ''destroying Kagutsuchi, the light of creation''. Not only the universe you were born from is now destroyed without any chance of restoration, you potentially doomed billions of universes, ''more lives than the human mind can possibly count.''' count'', to slowly ''die out'' as Kagutsuchi will never rise again to allow them to be reborn. Just to reinforce how destructive you've become, the idea, Kagutsuchi isn't just dark during the fight with Lucifer. It's cracked Lucifer; it's ''cracked'' in half. Instead of a phase counter, it's just listed as "Dead". Congratulations, you just [[WhatTheHellPlayer permanently destroyed all light in existence]].and hope for God knows how many]]. [[SarcasmMode We're sure getting Pierce was worth it]]. This got worse when the creators themselves made [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV SMT IV]]'s BadEnd into pretty much the exact same thing and people '''still didn't get it'''; it's even called "Nothingness Ending" for how utterly pointless it actually is. Though, as in [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse SMT IVA]]'s "Messiahs of Diamond Realm" [[DownloadableContent DLC]] the True Demon Ending Demi-fiend is being indirectly supported by the ProHumanTransHuman Stephen, it can be interpreted as the creators outright embracing this trope or defying it, depending on whether or not one considers it a plot hole or a plot point.
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** One of the biggest problems with the True Demon Ending is that it requires the recruiting of Dante. On paper, this is not an issue- Dante is point for point one of the best demons in the game, and is a welcome addition to any party thanks to his incredible damage output. The problem comes from the fact that the TrueFinalBoss requires piercing damage in order to be taken down within a decent time frame... and Dante lacks any way to pierce his physical damage. In the later releases which swapped Dante for Raidou, this was remedied by giving Raidou a skill that causes his physical damage to automatically pierce, which ultimately left Dante in the dust. The HD Remaster finally remedies this by also giving Dante a pierce skill, allowing him to be brought along to the final boss effectively.
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** Lucifer's deadliest attack is, of all things, his ''normal attack''. It's unavoidable, is almighty so you can't negate it, and has an abnormally high critical rate. If the AIRoulette rolls unfavorably against you he can land many critical hits in a row to pummel a party member of his choice into the ground, especially while you're just recovering from his previous slew of attacks.
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This has been repeatedly disproven with just a handful sticking glued to the idea.
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* SpiritualAdaptation: Playing the game on the True Demon Path or the Freedom Path is considered a pretty good distillation of ''Creator/FriedrichNietzsche'''s entire philosophy. The transcendence comes either way: True Demon has you destroying the old order and challenging the one who created it all, while Freedom has you take a good long look at everyone else's philosophies and stick a middle finger at them.
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** Root of Evil from Lucifer is a RandomEffectSpell where three possible outcomes turn it into a PercentDamageAttack, taking away 50%, 70%, or 90% of any one party member's current HP. He's also likely to follow up with an unblockable attack afterwards that can kill that party member rightaway.
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** Root of Evil from Lucifer is a RandomEffectSpell where three (out of six) possible outcomes turn it into a PercentDamageAttack, taking away 50%, 70%, or 90% of any one party member's current HP.HP; the remaining three can inflict random ailments. He's also likely to follow up with an unblockable attack afterwards that can kill that party member rightaway. If you're fighting him on Hard Mode, Root of Evil is also guaranteed to erase your buffs as well, so you'll have to spend more time building them back up or fall into a downward spiral you can't recover easily from.
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** If you keep your Pixie that you had from the very beginning of the game and take her all the way to the Fifth Kalpa of [[BrutalBonusLevel the Amala Dungeon]], your loyalty will be rewarded with a level 80 Pixie with maxed out stats and having learned Maziodyne, Samarecarm and Megidoalon.
** The Freedom Route for the most part. The Demi-fiend ''was'' [[WasOnceAMan originally human in the first place]] living a normal life until the Conception came, and suddenly he's tasked with changing the world by the forces above him while his friends go crazy. Going in this route implies he has no desire of changing it, would rather have his old world and his friends back the way they were despite their flaws, and thus decides to [[spoiler:force the FinalBoss Kagutsuchi]] to undo everything that transpired. And it works in the end. [[spoiler:Everything is returned to him at once without any catches, and Yuko thanks him for restoring the world while deciding to live for real.]]
** The Freedom Route for the most part. The Demi-fiend ''was'' [[WasOnceAMan originally human in the first place]] living a normal life until the Conception came, and suddenly he's tasked with changing the world by the forces above him while his friends go crazy. Going in this route implies he has no desire of changing it, would rather have his old world and his friends back the way they were despite their flaws, and thus decides to [[spoiler:force the FinalBoss Kagutsuchi]] to undo everything that transpired. And it works in the end. [[spoiler:Everything is returned to him at once without any catches, and Yuko thanks him for restoring the world while deciding to live for real.]]
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** If you keep your Pixie that you had from the very beginning of the game and take her all the way to the Fifth Kalpa of [[BrutalBonusLevel the Amala Dungeon]], your loyalty will be rewarded with a level 80 Pixie with maxed out extremely high stats and having learned knows high-tier skills like Maziodyne, Samarecarm and Megidoalon.
Megidolaon.
** The Freedom Route for the most part. The Demi-fiend ''was'' [[WasOnceAMan originally human in the first place]] living a normal life until the Conception came, and suddenly he's tasked with changing the world by the forces above him while his friends go crazy. Going in this route implies he has no desire of changing it, would rather have his old world and his friends back the way they were despite their flaws, and thus decides to[[spoiler:force the FinalBoss Kagutsuchi]] to undo everything that transpired. And it works in the end. [[spoiler:Everything is returned to him at once without any catches, and Yuko thanks him for restoring the world while deciding to live for real. And in case the Conception happens again, the Demi-Fiend is implied to retain some residual power should the time come.]]
** The Freedom Route for the most part. The Demi-fiend ''was'' [[WasOnceAMan originally human in the first place]] living a normal life until the Conception came, and suddenly he's tasked with changing the world by the forces above him while his friends go crazy. Going in this route implies he has no desire of changing it, would rather have his old world and his friends back the way they were despite their flaws, and thus decides to
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* LesYay: Fun fact, having a female demon use Seduce (high chance of recruiting male demons when used by a female demon) or wooing (high chance of recruiting female demons when used by a male demon) ''can'' work on other female demons, while a male demon using either on another male disgusts the target and results in a guaranteed fail.
** It doesn't ''work'' so much as it doesn't ''not'' work. A female demon's chances of recruiting another female demon using Seduce are exactly the same as if trying to negotiate normally. One would imagine that female demons are a bit more comfortable about being hit on by someone of the same sex than male demons.
** It doesn't ''work'' so much as it doesn't ''not'' work. A female demon's chances of recruiting another female demon using Seduce are exactly the same as if trying to negotiate normally. One would imagine that female demons are a bit more comfortable about being hit on by someone of the same sex than male demons.
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* LesYay: Fun fact, having a female demon use Seduce (high chance of recruiting male demons when used by a female demon) or wooing (high chance of recruiting female demons when used by a male demon) ''can'' work on other female demons, has a normal outcome like a regular conversation skill, while a male demon using either on another male disgusts the target and results in a guaranteed fail.
** It doesn't ''work'' so much as it doesn't ''not'' work. A female demon's chances of recruiting another female demon using Seduce are exactly the same as if trying to negotiate normally.fail. One would imagine that female demons are a bit more comfortable about being hit on by someone of the same sex than male demons.
** It doesn't ''work'' so much as it doesn't ''not'' work. A female demon's chances of recruiting another female demon using Seduce are exactly the same as if trying to negotiate normally.
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* ThatOneAchievement:
** "The Depths of Damnation" requires maxing out all of the Demi-fiend's stats, which involves a lot of LevelGrinding and/or use of Incense. You don't need to go this far in normal play, given that you can beat the game with much less.
** "Master of Misfortune" requires mastery of all 25 Magatama, which again requires extensive LevelGrinding to unlock each skill that can be imparted. You also don't need to go this far in normal play.
** "The Depths of Damnation" requires maxing out all of the Demi-fiend's stats, which involves a lot of LevelGrinding and/or use of Incense. You don't need to go this far in normal play, given that you can beat the game with much less.
** "Master of Misfortune" requires mastery of all 25 Magatama, which again requires extensive LevelGrinding to unlock each skill that can be imparted. You also don't need to go this far in normal play.
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* ThatOneAchievement:
**ThatOneAchievement: "The Depths of Damnation" requires and "Master of Misfortune" essentially mandate a large amount of LevelGrinding -- the former involves maxing out all of the Demi-fiend's base stats, which while the latter involves a lot of LevelGrinding and/or use of Incense. You don't mastering all Magatama. You'll need to go this far in normal play, given that grind to level 191 and 115 at minimum for these respectively, when you can beat the game with much less.
** "Master of Misfortune" requires mastery of all 25 Magatama, which again requires extensive LevelGrinding to unlock each skill thatnear level 80. The former can be imparted. You shortcut with use of Incense, though this also don't need needs lucking out with the Lucky Ticket raffles at the shops to go this far in normal play.get the right Incense, too.
**
** "Master of Misfortune" requires mastery of all 25 Magatama, which again requires extensive LevelGrinding to unlock each skill that
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** Aciel loves to use Sol Niger, a guaranteed HPToOne for your party. Since he's got two Press Turns, he'll use the other one to attack right afterwards, instantly killing anyone he targets. Bear in mind that at this point, nothing can make the Demi-fiend immune to phys.
** Trumpeter's Holy Melody and Evil Melody. The former fully heals whoever has the lowest percentage of HP, while the latter would kill him. While when he uses it is predictable, it's also unavoidable. In addition, the Trumpeter can use Holy Melody on himself, but can't use Evil Melody. Interestingly enough, the same applies when Trumpeter learns it in your party...[[GameBreaker and Evil Melody only costs 1 MP...]]
** Trumpeter's Holy Melody and Evil Melody. The former fully heals whoever has the lowest percentage of HP, while the latter would kill him. While when he uses it is predictable, it's also unavoidable. In addition, the Trumpeter can use Holy Melody on himself, but can't use Evil Melody. Interestingly enough, the same applies when Trumpeter learns it in your party...[[GameBreaker and Evil Melody only costs 1 MP...]]
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** Aciel loves to use Sol Niger, a guaranteed HPToOne for your party. Since he's got two Press Turns, he'll use the other one to attack right afterwards, instantly killing anyone he targets. Bear in mind that at this point, nothing barring rare Attack Mirrors or the expensive Tetrakarn can make the Demi-fiend immune to phys.
** Trumpeter's Holy Melody and Evil Melody. The former fully heals whoever has the lowest percentage of HP, while the latter would kill him. While when he uses it is predictable, it's also unavoidable. In addition,the Trumpeter can use while Holy Melody on himself, but can't use Evil Melody. Interestingly enough, the same applies when can fully heal Trumpeter learns it in your party...[[GameBreaker and to effectively reset the fight, Evil Melody only costs 1 MP...]]will never target him.
** Trumpeter's Holy Melody and Evil Melody. The former fully heals whoever has the lowest percentage of HP, while the latter would kill him. While when he uses it is predictable, it's also unavoidable. In addition,
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** Root of Evil from Lucifer is a RandomEffectSpell where three possible outcomes turn it into a PercentDamageAttack, taking away 50%, 70%, or 90% of any one party member's current HP. He's also likely to follow up with an unblockable attack afterwards that can kill that party member rightaway.
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*** This one came full circle when the Demi-Fiend was announced to be the star of a DLC expansion for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV.'' Atlus' Twitter account wasted no time [[https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1451026941209759752?s=20 flipping the meme on its head]].
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** Daisoujou is a very popular demon due to him not only learning Prayer (a full-heal and status-restoring spell) at a relatively early level, but also innately possessing an MP-draining spell that makes sure that he never runs out of MP, on top of being immune to pretty much every single status ailment in the game. His only downside is that he requires beating an optional Fiend, but said Fiend is incredibly easy and has no answers to debuffs.
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** Daisoujou is a very popular demon due to him not only learning Prayer (a full-heal and status-restoring spell) at a relatively early level, but also innately possessing an MP-draining spell that makes sure that he never runs out of MP, on top of being immune to pretty much every single status ailment in the game. His The only downside obstacle to getting him is that he requires beating an optional Fiend, but said Fiend is incredibly easy and has no answers to debuffs.[[DefeatMeansPlayable defeating him first]].
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** As a sub-meme of the above, variants of "Get the buffs ready" occur often when talking about the Press Turn system, and if the phrase is brought up, Matador is almost always mentioned.
*** Matador's hard lesson in the strength of buffs and debuffs has also led to a common line of advice regarding SMT, sincere or not, being "use buffs idiot".
*** Matador's hard lesson in the strength of buffs and debuffs has also led to a common line of advice regarding SMT, sincere or not, being "use buffs idiot".
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** As a sub-meme of the above, variants of "Get the buffs ready" occur often when talking about the Press Turn system, and if the phrase is brought up, Matador is almost always mentioned.
*** Matador's hard lesson in the strength of buffs and debuffs has also led to a common line of advice regarding SMT, sincereor not, being "use buffs idiot".idiot" are dispensed as advice for the SMT series as a whole (sincere or otherwise), especially if Matador has been mentioned.
*** Matador's hard lesson in the strength of buffs and debuffs has also led to a common line of advice regarding SMT, sincere
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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM Mot's Drama]], which refers to whenever Mot spams Beast Eye and pairs it with enough Makakajas and Megidolaons to wipe you out in one turn. Became an AscendedMeme in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'', where one of the DLC regular enemies is a Mot with Guardian's Eye, Makakaja, and Antichthon.
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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM Mot's Drama]], which refers to whenever Mot spams Beast Eye and pairs it with enough Makakajas and Megidolaons to wipe you out in one turn. Became an AscendedMeme in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'', where one of the DLC regular enemies in a DLC BonusDungeon is a Mot with Guardian's Eye, Makakaja, and Antichthon.
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** Every time Black Rider uses a spell. Heeeeee!
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** Every time Black Rider uses a spell. Heeeeee!"(click click click) Heeeeee!"
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*** The upper floor of the Third Kalpa halts your progress with stat check doors, and if you fail to open some of them they will warp you to a different part of the map. You'll need a total of 25 Strength, 25 Magic, and 20 Luck to fully explore the area for its treasure, but if you are partially to some of these thresholds you can open just enough doors to progress. The lower floors are where Dante or Raidou confront and chase you around, and getting caught gives them a turn to smack your party around before returning you to the start of the floor and resetting any switches you've pushed.
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*** The upper floor of the Third Kalpa halts your progress with stat check doors, and if you fail to open some of them they will warp you to a different part of the map. You'll need a total of 25 Strength, 25 Magic, and 20 Luck to fully explore the area for its treasure, but if you are partially to some of these thresholds you can open just enough the necessary doors to progress.for progress don't require such high stats. The lower floors are where Dante or Raidou confront and chase you around, and getting caught gives them a turn to smack your party around before returning you to the start of the floor and resetting any switches you've pushed.
