Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* NintendoHard: Normal difficulty can be punishing but is reasonable once you get accustomed to the battle system. Hard difficulty pushes things into nearly-unfair territory; in this difficulty you can ''die during the tutorial fight''.
** As if to press home the point, the game describes its "Hard" difficulty setting as "A level of difficulty suitable for one seeking the thrill of death".
** Expect later dungeons to have fiendish level design between one-way doors, teleporter mazes, damage tiles and pitfalls. [[https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0KJ3d_-d5Tw/Vy54J2hWdbI/AAAAAAAAAIs/xgPhjQMq2mobSD65C-b5jIdpBwtD0MurwCKgB/s1600/HOLYSHITDUNGEONSOFMADNESS.png Here's an apt summary of how bad it can get]].
** One of the things that makes this game difficult is the lack of AntiFrustrationFeatures. When you learn a skill by leveling up, that is your one and only chance to use that skill--you can't "store" them for later and there's no going back if you erase something you're currently equipped with. Later games in the franchise would be softer on this--particularly ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga''-- but here, you're expected to plan out your character progression well in advance.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Some fans advise new players to never touch the Labyrinth of Amala unless you're going for the True Demon Ending. What actually locks you into TDE is using the elevator at the very end of the Labyrinth. You're free to complete as much of it as you want, recruit Dante, and even defeat ''all'' of its bosses, without doing this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Mot is a good demonstration of how ''not'' to design a boss fight. Bosses with [[ExtraTurn Beast/Dragon's Eye]] are typically restricted by an AI script to keep things ''somewhat'' fair, but Mot is an exception; not only is Mot's Beast Eye ''not'' scripted and can be used whenever he wants, he also has access to Makakaja and ''Megidolaon'', also not scripted. It's not unusual for Mot's AIRoulette decide "you're not allowed to play the game" and chain Beast Eye and Megidolaon endlessly to just ''end'' your party before you even get a turn. As if that wasn't bad enough, he takes 90% less damage from physical attacks, voids Fire, drains Ice and repels Force, so Electricity (which, admittedly, he is weak against) is your only viable means of damaging him.

to:

** Mot is a good demonstration of how ''not'' to design a boss fight. Bosses with [[ExtraTurn Beast/Dragon's Eye]] are typically restricted by an AI script to keep things ''somewhat'' fair, but Mot is an exception; not only is Mot's Beast Eye ''not'' scripted and can be used whenever he wants, he also has access to Makakaja and ''Megidolaon'', also not scripted. It's not unusual for Mot's AIRoulette decide to say "you're not allowed to play the game" and repeatedly chain Beast Eye and Megidolaon endlessly to just ''end'' your party before you even get a turn. As if that wasn't bad enough, he takes 90% less damage from physical attacks, voids Fire, drains Ice and repels Force, so Electricity (which, admittedly, he is weak against) is your only viable means of damaging him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Root of Evil from Lucifer is a RandomEffectSpell where three (out of six) possible outcomes turn it into a PercentDamageAttack, taking away 50%, 70%, or 90% of any one party member's current HP; the remaining three can inflict random ailments. He's also likely to follow up with an unblockable attack afterwards that can kill that party member rightaway. If you're fighting him on the Chronicle version of the Remaster, Root of Evil is also guaranteed to erase your buffs as well, so you'll have to spend more time building them back up or fall into a downward spiral you can't recover easily from.

to:

** Root of Evil from Lucifer is a RandomEffectSpell where three (out of six) possible outcomes turn it into a PercentDamageAttack, taking away 50%, 70%, or 90% of any one party member's current HP; the remaining three can inflict random ailments. He's also likely to follow up with an unblockable attack afterwards that can kill that party member rightaway.right away. If you're fighting him on the Chronicle version of the Remaster, Root of Evil is also guaranteed to erase your buffs as well, so you'll have to spend more time building them back up or fall into a downward spiral you can't recover easily from.



** '''[[WakeUpCallBoss Matador]]'''. With the right strategy, he's not too difficult, but he's the first boss in the game that you won't be able to beat without fusing a party specifically to counter him. And even if you do he's still [[GoddamnedBoss a pain in the ass]], replenishing his Evasion faster than you can drain it. The Demon Compendium only becomes available ''after'' defeating him, so changing your team for him needs a lot of extra effort.
** Mot. He can use Beast Eye, but plenty of other bosses can, too. Unlike them, however, Mot isn't designed to do anything specific with Beast Eye - it's just a regular move to him, unlike most other times you run into it or Dragon Eye, so if you're unlucky he will chain Beast Eyes for a long string of Press Turns. Mot can also combine spamming Beast Eye with Makakaja and Megidolaon, meaning he can wipe out your team without you getting a single move. As if that wasn't bad enough, he takes 90% less damage from physical attacks, voids Fire, drains Ice and repels Force, so Electricity(which, admittedly, he is weak against) is your only viable means of defeating him.

to:

** '''[[WakeUpCallBoss Matador]]'''. With Even if you go into the right strategy, he's not too difficult, but he's the first boss in the game that you won't be able to beat without fusing a party specifically fight knowing to counter him. And even if you do his maxed out hit/evasion rate, he's still [[GoddamnedBoss still a pain in the ass]], replenishing his Evasion faster than ass]] -- not only is he the only one of the [[SuperBoss Fiends]] that ''must'' be fought, but he ambushes you can drain it. The ''before you even have the Demon Compendium only becomes available ''after'' defeating him, Compendium''! Because he's encountered so changing your team for him needs a lot of extra effort.
** Mot. He can use Beast Eye, but plenty of other bosses can, too. Unlike them, however, Mot isn't designed
early in the game, the player simply doesn't have access to do anything specific with Beast Eye - it's just a regular move any strategies to him, unlike most other times make the fight simple; you run into it either develop a solid understanding of the battle mechanics, or Dragon Eye, so if you're unlucky he will chain Beast Eyes for a long string of Press Turns. not going anywhere.
**
Mot can also combine spamming is a good demonstration of how ''not'' to design a boss fight. Bosses with [[ExtraTurn Beast/Dragon's Eye]] are typically restricted by an AI script to keep things ''somewhat'' fair, but Mot is an exception; not only is Mot's Beast Eye with ''not'' scripted and can be used whenever he wants, he also has access to Makakaja and Megidolaon, meaning he can wipe out ''Megidolaon'', also not scripted. It's not unusual for Mot's AIRoulette decide "you're not allowed to play the game" and chain Beast Eye and Megidolaon endlessly to just ''end'' your team without party before you getting even get a single move. turn. As if that wasn't bad enough, he takes 90% less damage from physical attacks, voids Fire, drains Ice and repels Force, so Electricity(which, Electricity (which, admittedly, he is weak against) is your only viable means of defeating damaging him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** "Featuring Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series!" is often used in photoshops of game covers in order to mock the European cover's blatant attempt at cashing in WolverinePublicity. This one came full circle when the Demi-Fiend was announced to be the star of a DLC expansion for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV.'' Atlus' Twitter account wasted no time [[https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1451026941209759752?s=20 flipping the meme on its head]].

to:

** "Featuring Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series!" is often used in photoshops of game covers in order to mock the European cover's blatant attempt at cashing in WolverinePublicity. This one [[AscendedMeme came full circle circle]] when the Demi-Fiend was announced to be the star of a DLC expansion for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV.'' Atlus' Twitter account wasted no time [[https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1451026941209759752?s=20 flipping the meme on its head]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Dante vs Raidou. There are numerous debates between players over which character they prefer more, and which fits the game better. With the HD Remaster, it seems Atlus elected to TakeAThirdOption by including both (Raidou being present by default, with DLC that replaces him with Dante).

to:

** Dante vs Raidou. There are numerous debates between players over which character they prefer more, and which fits the game better. With the HD Remaster, it seems that Atlus elected to TakeAThirdOption by including both (Raidou being present by default, with DLC that replaces him with Dante).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Shipping: There's quite a lot of Pixie/Demi-Fiend art. She's the first demon to join him, she's friendly, and she can stay by his side the entire game if you let her.

to:

* Shipping: {{Shipping}}: There's quite a lot of Pixie/Demi-Fiend art. She's the first demon to join him, she's friendly, and she can stay by his side the entire game if you let her.

Added: 168

Removed: 360

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CrackPairing: There's quite a lot of Pixie/Demi-Fiend art. This isn't quite as crazy as it sounds, she's the first demon to join you, she's friendly, and will stay by your side till the end, if you let her.



* FanPreferredCouple: There are plenty of fans who ship the Demi-fiend with the Pixie who joins his party after the former wakes up in the Vortex World.


Added DiffLines:

* Shipping: There's quite a lot of Pixie/Demi-Fiend art. She's the first demon to join him, she's friendly, and she can stay by his side the entire game if you let her.

Added: 1286

Removed: 1282

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OnceOriginalNowCommon: ''Nocturne'''s jump to full 3D was a turning point for truly modernizing the franchise in ways that can be hard to appreciate. This was the first game in the series to completely do away with Magnetite, which meant you no longer had to count your steps to keep your summoned demons. Speaking of summons, the COMP conceit that had been a prior series staple is done away with here, which removed layers of submenus that were infamously frustrating to bring up in the SNES titles. With that gone, you now have a much simpler and intuitive UI, with an auto-updating minimap that's always onscreen with more detailed landmarks. To say nothing of a simple, precise camera and directional controls in true third-person (no more getting lost in first-person hallways). However, later games added even more improvements, such as the ability to save anywhere, respawn after dying, check buff/debuff levels, or look at demons' resistances without wasting a turn using an EnemyScan spell, whose absence attracted some criticism when the HD Remaster came out. Playing the game after playing any game released after it can result in a lot of frustration at the more dated mechanics to the point of making it seem overrated, even with the remaster bringing some improvements.



* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: ''Nocturne'''s jump to full 3D was a turning point for truly modernizing the franchise in ways that can be hard to appreciate. This was the first game in the series to completely do away with Magnetite, which meant you no longer had to count your steps to keep your summoned demons. Speaking of summons, the COMP conceit that had been a prior series staple is done away with here, which removed layers of submenus that were infamously frustrating to bring up in the SNES titles. With that gone, you now have a much simpler and intuitive UI, with an auto-updating minimap that's always onscreen with more detailed landmarks. To say nothing of a simple, precise camera and directional controls in true third-person (no more getting lost in first-person hallways). However, later games added even more improvements, such as the ability to save anywhere, respawn after dying, check buff/debuff levels, or look at demons' resistances without wasting a turn using an EnemyScan spell, whose absence attracted some criticism when the HD Remaster came out. Playing the game after playing any game released after it can result in a lot of frustration at the more dated mechanics to the point of making it seem overrated, even with the remaster bringing some improvements.

Added: 667

Changed: 117

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BestLevelEver: The Labyrinth of Amala and the Diet Building are often cited as the most memorable dungeons in the game, the former for its sheer length and difficulty and the latter for its atmosphere, unique optical illusion gimmick and its bosses (particularly [[ThatOneBoss Mot]])

to:

* BestLevelEver: The [[BonusDungeon Labyrinth of Amala Amala]] and the Diet Building are often cited as the most memorable dungeons in the game, the former for its sheer length and difficulty and the latter for its atmosphere, unique optical illusion gimmick and its bosses (particularly [[ThatOneBoss Mot]])



** After the sheer hell that is the Fourth Kalpa, with its cursed hallways and absolutely brutal boss, the Fifth Kalpa is very tame in comparison. The first three floors is straightforward and has a lot of low- and mid-level enemies that will give you no problems, and the fourth floor only needs you to have a good combination of demons with the right stats to fully navigate. More than that, you get the opportunity to recruit both Dante/Raidou and the super Pixie, both of whom are incredibly powerful and likely of significantly higher levels than you (and the latter can trivialize the fourth floor's entire gimmick).

to:

** After the sheer hell that is the Fourth Kalpa, with its cursed hallways and absolutely brutal boss, the Fifth Kalpa is very tame in comparison. The first three floors is straightforward and has a lot of low- and mid-level enemies that will give you no problems, and the fourth floor only needs you to have a good combination of demons with the right stats to fully navigate. More than that, you get the opportunity to recruit both Dante/Raidou and the super Pixie, both of whom are incredibly powerful and likely of significantly higher levels than you (and the latter can trivialize the cursed room on the second floor, and the fourth floor's entire gimmick).gimmick if carried over to a NewGamePlus playthrough).



** Dante being useless during the battle against [[TrueFinalBoss Lucifer]] is a common misconception that stems from how the player needs to have Pierce on themselves and their demons to deal reasonable damage to Lucifer. Dante cannot pierce enemies (until the [[UpdatedRerelease HD Remaster]] updated his Son's Oath to bypass resistances, immunities, and absorption of his attacks.), ensuring that his attacks would deal reduced damage due to Lucifer's unique gimmick of taking reduced damage from non-pierce attacks, despite how Dante's Rebellion is useful due to it's high critical rate ensuring that you'll be able to gain additional press turns during the fight.



** Daisoujou is a very popular demon due to him not only learning Prayer (a full-heal and status-restoring spell) at a relatively early level, but also innately possessing an MP-draining spell that makes sure that he never runs out of MP, on top of being immune to pretty much every single status ailment in the game. It’s not uncommon to see him in videos even at the late or endgame due to him being so good that even demons’ slower leveling putting him above just about any other support. The only obstacle to getting him is [[DefeatMeansPlayable defeating him first]].

to:

** Daisoujou is a very popular demon due to him not only learning Prayer (a full-heal and status-restoring spell) at a relatively early level, but also innately possessing an MP-draining spell that makes sure that he never runs out of MP, on top of being immune to pretty much every single status ailment in the game. It’s not uncommon to see him in videos even at the late or endgame due to him being so good that even other demons’ slower leveling putting level gain puts him above just about any other support.support demon. The only obstacle to getting him is [[DefeatMeansPlayable defeating him first]].



** During the Third Kalpa of the Labyrinth of Amala while Dante is in there, the place is noticably devoid of demons to face. One might put it to DevelopersForesight so as you wouldn't be distracted when fighting against Dante, but think about it: '''[[DemonSlaying Dante]]''' has been all over those floors of the Third Kalpa! It makes sense as to why there's no demons lurking there, he killed them already! Which is quite a feat given the hordes you face in game. Naturally, once Dante leaves after you defeat him, the demons are suddenly back in those floors.

to:

** During the Third Kalpa of the Labyrinth of Amala while Dante is in there, the place is noticably noticeably devoid of demons to face. One might put it to DevelopersForesight so as you wouldn't be distracted when fighting against Dante, but think about it: '''[[DemonSlaying Dante]]''' has been all over those floors of the Third Kalpa! It makes sense as to why there's no demons lurking there, he killed them already! Which is quite a feat given the hordes you face in game. Naturally, once Dante leaves after you defeat him, the demons are suddenly back in those floors.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** '''[[WakeUpCallBoss Matador]]'''. With the right strategy, he's not too difficult, but he's the first boss in the game that you won't be able to beat without fusing a party specifically to counter him. And even if you do he's still [[GoddamnedBoss a pain in the ass]], replenishing his Evasion faster than you can drain it.

to:

** '''[[WakeUpCallBoss Matador]]'''. With the right strategy, he's not too difficult, but he's the first boss in the game that you won't be able to beat without fusing a party specifically to counter him. And even if you do he's still [[GoddamnedBoss a pain in the ass]], replenishing his Evasion faster than you can drain it. The Demon Compendium only becomes available ''after'' defeating him, so changing your team for him needs a lot of extra effort.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Lachesis, in the original version, vocalizes a [[DullSurprise bored-sounding "eh"]] whenever she casts a spell.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Lucifer's deadliest attack is, [[BoringButPractical of all things]], his ''normal attack''. It's unavoidable, is almighty so you can't negate it, and has an abnormally high critical rate. If the AIRoulette rolls unfavorably against you he can land many critical hits in a row to pummel a party member of his choice into the ground, especially while you're just recovering from his previous slew of attacks.

to:

** Lucifer's deadliest attack is, [[BoringButPractical of all things]], his ''normal attack''. It's unavoidable, is almighty affinity so you can't negate it, and has an abnormally high critical rate. If the AIRoulette rolls unfavorably against you he can land many critical hits in a row to pummel a party member of his choice into the ground, especially while you're just recovering from his previous slew of attacks.

Changed: 530

Removed: 475

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Is Yuko's failure to conceive a reason really the result of her own self-doubt, or is that claim just Hikawa being petty? Every human who created a Reason did so only after gathering an enormous amount of Magatsuhi. Yuko attempted to accomplish this as well by obtaining the Yahiro no Himorogi, however, this plan failed purely because of Sakahagi draining its power before she could obtain it. It's very easy to read her not being able to form a Reason not because of a personal weakness on her part, but because of Sakahagi's interference.

to:

*** ** Is Yuko's failure to conceive a reason really the result of her own self-doubt, or is that claim just Hikawa being petty? Every human who created a Reason did so only after gathering an enormous amount of Magatsuhi. Yuko attempted to accomplish this as well by obtaining the Yahiro no Himorogi, however, this plan failed purely because of Sakahagi draining its power before she could obtain it. It's very easy to read her not being able to form a Reason not because of a personal weakness on her part, but because of Sakahagi's interference.



** In a weird way, the TrueFinalBoss, [[spoiler: Lucifer]]. While he's more challenging than Kagutsuchi, getting to him requires going through the BrutalBonusLevel and multiple sadistic BonusBoss fights, making him feel easy by comparison. You're also likely to have Pierce on the main character by then.

to:

** In a weird way, the TrueFinalBoss, [[spoiler: Lucifer]]. While he's more challenging than Kagutsuchi, getting to him requires going through the BrutalBonusLevel and multiple sadistic BonusBoss {{Superboss}} fights, making him feel easy by comparison. You're also likely to have Pierce on the main character by then.



** As of 2019, Dante has returned to the franchise in VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiLiberationDx2, as part of a cross promotion between that game and VideoGame/DevilMayCry5.

to:

** As of 2019, Dante has returned to the franchise in VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiLiberationDx2, ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiLiberationDx2'', as part of a cross promotion between that game and VideoGame/DevilMayCry5.''VideoGame/DevilMayCry5''.



** The Demi-fiend himself. His actions on the True Demon route and in ''Digital Devil Saga'' has amazed enough of the fanbase that, whenever questions of who the strongest SMT protagonist is come up, his only competition is [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Aleph]]. Considering that the Demi-Fiend can become [[spoiler: TheAntiChrist in the True Demon Ending]] while Aleph is [[spoiler: A CloneJesus]] and seems to lean law in his appearance in ''IV Apocalypse'', it takes OrderVersusChaos to a new level. He's such a badass that he has been the [[BonusBoss Super Boss]] for two separate games, something very few if any other characters in Megaten games can claim.

to:

** The Demi-fiend himself. His actions on the True Demon route and in ''Digital Devil Saga'' has amazed enough of the fanbase that, whenever questions of who the strongest SMT protagonist is come up, his only competition is [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Aleph]]. Considering that the Demi-Fiend can become [[spoiler: TheAntiChrist in the True Demon Ending]] while Aleph is [[spoiler: A a CloneJesus]] and seems to lean law in his appearance in ''IV Apocalypse'', it takes OrderVersusChaos to a new level. He's such a badass that he has been the [[BonusBoss Super Boss]] {{superboss}} for two separate games, something very few if any other characters in Megaten games can claim.



** "Featuring Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series!" is often used in photoshops of game covers in order to mock the European cover's blatant attempt at cashing in WolverinePublicity.
*** This one came full circle when the Demi-Fiend was announced to be the star of a DLC expansion for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV.'' Atlus' Twitter account wasted no time [[https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1451026941209759752?s=20 flipping the meme on its head]].

to:

** "Featuring Dante from the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series!" is often used in photoshops of game covers in order to mock the European cover's blatant attempt at cashing in WolverinePublicity.
***
WolverinePublicity. This one came full circle when the Demi-Fiend was announced to be the star of a DLC expansion for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV.'' Atlus' Twitter account wasted no time [[https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1451026941209759752?s=20 flipping the meme on its head]].



** Chiaki's [[https://imgur.com/gallery/ew6AlN3 very denim-heavy outfit]] has also been part of a minor meme

to:

** Chiaki's [[https://imgur.com/gallery/ew6AlN3 very denim-heavy outfit]] has also been part of a minor memememe.



** While it's relatively common knowledge among [=MegaTen=] fans that the version of ''Nocturne'' released overseas (the "Maniax" version) added [[Characters/DevilMayCryDante Dante]] [[MemeticMutation from the]] ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series, it's less widely known that said version also added in the iconic [[BonusBoss fiend battles]], the [[BrutalBonusLevel Labyrinth of Amala]], and the True Demon Ending. This actually proved to be a problem when the PC release of ''[[UpdatedRerelease HD Remaster]]'' bundled every version of the game together and made the original version the default one (many newcomers simply picked "New Game" at the start without realizing this option lacked said content).

to:

** While it's relatively common knowledge among [=MegaTen=] fans that the version of ''Nocturne'' released overseas (the "Maniax" version) added [[Characters/DevilMayCryDante Dante]] [[MemeticMutation from the]] ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series, it's less widely known that said version also added in the iconic [[BonusBoss [[{{Superboss}} fiend battles]], the [[BrutalBonusLevel Labyrinth of Amala]], and the True Demon Ending. This actually proved to be a problem when the PC release of ''[[UpdatedRerelease HD Remaster]]'' bundled every version of the game together and made the original version the default one (many newcomers simply picked "New Game" at the start without realizing this option lacked said content).



** Puzzle Boy, a young Manikin that makes you play a minigame of 20 [[UnexpectedGameplayChange increasingly difficult puzzles]] if you want to obtain all the Magatama in the game. He's practically required as the Magatama he gives you teaches the Demi-fiend all the second tier healing abilities, and is necessary if you want a shot at getting the secret [[InfinityPlusOneSword 25th Magatama]]. Hope you're good at complicated block puzzles (or barring that, can slavishly reproduce all the steps in a detailed walkthrough), as you have to complete all 20 levels in one go.
*** This proved so frustrating in fact, that the [[HarderThanHard Hardtype hack]] changes it so you can just buy it in the shop. Yes, even a hack made to ramp up the difficulty thought it was unreasonable.

to:

** Puzzle Boy, a young Manikin that makes you play a minigame of 20 [[UnexpectedGameplayChange increasingly difficult puzzles]] if you want to obtain all the Magatama in the game. He's practically required as the Magatama he gives you teaches the Demi-fiend all the second tier healing abilities, and is necessary if you want a shot at getting the secret [[InfinityPlusOneSword 25th Magatama]]. Hope you're good at complicated block puzzles (or barring that, can slavishly reproduce all the steps in a detailed walkthrough), as you have to complete all 20 levels in one go.
***
go. This proved so frustrating in fact, that the [[HarderThanHard Hardtype hack]] changes it so you can just buy it in the shop. Yes, even a hack made to ramp up the difficulty thought it was unreasonable.

Top