History YMMV / ShinMegamiTensei

** Cielo in ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga''. It's not that he's poor in attack strength and average in everything else. It's that his weakness is "Ailment". This includes attacks that have ailments as a secondary effect, which nearly ''every'' end-game enemy will be using. (Ironically, this weakness makes him an ideal character for fighting the NintendoHard superboss.) He was RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap in ''Digital Devil Saga 2'', where his weakness was restricted to only three specific types of ailment attacks. This- coupled with decent stats, no elemental weaknesses and a period in the game where you ''have'' to use him- brings him up to par with the rest of the party... if you can stand his bizarre Jamaican accent, frequent [[ThePowerOfFriendship Friendship Speeches]] and the fact that [[spoiler:he was barely involved in the events leading up to the first game]].

** The franchise moving from [=PlayStation=] home consoles to Nintendo handhelds (UsefulNotes/NintendoDS and UsefulNotes/Nintendo3DS) after the UsefulNotes/PlayStation2 era. This frustrated many UsefulNotes/PlayStation3 owners which predicted the console getting new titles. Not only [=PS3=] didn't get any new [=SMT=] game outside of re-releases of [=PS2=] games but only got ''Persona 5'' at the very end of the generation, which was released for the more popular UsefulNotes/PlayStation4 too. Nintendo fans, especially handheld owners, loved it considering the low third party support outside of Atlus, Square-Enix and Capcom trio.

*** Characters who generalize in [[LightEmUp Hama]] and [[CastingAShadow Mudo]] spells, both being instant death, tend to get ditched in favor of those who either specialize in more conventional elemental spells or physical specialists, mostly because they have a very low chance to hit, ''even if an enemy is weak to it.'' In ''3'', Ken Amada, already something of TheScrappy, specializes in Hama spells, and though his physical prowess with a spear is decent, whatever other spells he has are single-target. Although he can also heal and revive allies, Yukari can do the same, and she specializes with [[BlowYouAway Garu spells]], ''and'' is tied with [[AnIcePerson Mitsuru]] for strongest magic caster at that. Koromaru is the Mudo specialist, and his stats as a whole are very mediocre, save for a high Agility stat, and the rest of his spells are [[PlayingWithFire Agi]] spells and agility buffs.
*** In ''4'', [[SweetPollyOliver Naoto]] specializes in both Hama and Mudo spells, so while she's a good choice for quick random encounters, she's useless for boss fights, as all bosses are immune from both. The ''Golden'' re-release fixed this problem by subbing out some of her physical skills for regular elemental skills, and also gave her third tier Persona moves such as [[AttackReflector Tetrakarn and Makarakarn]].

*** Goro Akechi not only is the last character to join the Phantom Thieves in the original game, but despite possessing both Bless and Curse skills, doesn't have multi-target skills or the Bless/Curse Boost/Amp passives. Like Naoto from the previous game, Akechi has a smattering of other skills, which aren't all that useful on their own, and the only advantage he brings to the table is an automatically leveled up Confidant (at a point in the game at which Haru's Confidant has only just been unlocked). It doesn't help that [[GuestStarPartyMember he only stays with the party for one Palace]].

** The video games starring the lovable series mascot Jack Frost also act as a "cult classic within a cult classic" given that his first game ''Jack Bros'' is on the hard to get UsefulNotes/VirtualBoy while his {{Metroidvania}} game, ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiSynchronicityPrologue'', released as a jokey promotion for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Redux'' was only released for a short while in Japan in Japanese only, requiring his fans to KeepCirculatingTheTapes with an English fan translation. Consensus on both games, however, is that ''Jack Bros.'' is pretty great in spite of being on the Virtual Boy while ''Synchronicity Prologue'' is far better than any joke game has any right to be, with quite a few stating they were now more interested in an expansion of the Metroidvania as opposed to the ''Strange Journey'' remake it was promoting.

** In ''VideoGame/Persona5 Royal'', maxing Iwai's Confidant unlocks the fusion for Attis, who comes with the Trait of being able to use skills you could only use when surrounded at any time. This includes Thermopylae, a party-wide version of Heat Riser, which raises all of your party's stats for three turns. And Attis starts with this move as soon as he can be fused. Yusuke can eventually learn a similar ability with his third-tier Persona Gorokichi, but that costs 95 SP compared to Thermopylae's 30 SP. Even though Attis' stats are subpar and his resistances are just okay for the endgame, the ability to fully buff your party with only one move will see Attis end up on a lot of endgame party lists, and get a lot of use on the FinalBoss and the {{Bonus Boss}}es of ''Royal''.

** Daisoujou in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'' is seen on almost every team, and in a game as difficult as ''Nocturne'' using it might as well be CharacterSelectForcing. It has a lot of immunities (most of them blocking annoying status ailments to boot) and no weaknesses, learns a full party HP and status heal in Prayer, and its SecretArt Meditation gives it virtually unlimited MP. Fusing it requires [[DefeatMeansPlayable defeating it in a]] BonusBoss battle, but it's available relatively early into the game and remains useful the whole way through. Daisoujou's support capabilities are so notorious that hard-type {{ROM Hack}}s tend to simply remove his ability to learn Prayer just to keep him balanced.

** Cielo in ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga''. It's not that he's poor in attack strength and average in everything else. It's that his weakness is "Ailment". This includes attacks that have ailments as a secondary effect, which nearly ''every'' end-game enemy will be using. (Ironically, this weakness makes him an ideal character for fighting the NintendoHard BonusBoss.) He was RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap in ''Digital Devil Saga 2'', where his weakness was restricted to only three specific types of ailment attacks. This- coupled with decent stats, no elemental weaknesses and a period in the game where you ''have'' to use him- brings him up to par with the rest of the party... if you can stand his bizarre Jamaican accent, frequent [[ThePowerOfFriendship Friendship Speeches]] and the fact that [[spoiler:he was barely involved in the events leading up to the first game]].

** The BonusBoss fight with [[spoiler:the Demi-Fiend]] in ''Digital Devil Saga'', for being one of the hardest fights in the series, if not ''the'' most difficult.

** ''Devil Survivor'' takes it up to eleven by adding the -dyne suffix. As if Megidolaon wasn't bad enough, [[spoiler: BonusBoss Lucifer]] can drop Megidoladyne on the ''entire map''. And it gets 50% more powerful with each hit, effectively making the fight a timed battle because it's Almighty and can't be blocked, so even with maxed magic and vitality it'll eventually do more damage than you've got hp.

* Cielo in ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga''. It's not that he's poor in attack strength and average in everything else. It's that his weakness is "Ailment". This includes attacks that have ailments as a secondary effect, which nearly ''every'' end-game enemy will be using. (Ironically, this weakness makes him an ideal character for fighting the NintendoHard BonusBoss.) He was RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap in ''Digital Devil Saga 2'', where his weakness was restricted to only three specific types of ailment attacks. This- coupled with decent stats, no elemental weaknesses and a period in the game where you ''have'' to use him- brings him up to par with the rest of the party... if you can stand his bizarre Jamaican accent, frequent [[ThePowerOfFriendship Friendship Speeches]] and the fact that [[spoiler:he was barely involved in the events leading up to the first game]].
* In ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', this applies to any team leader specialized in physical attacks. Physical is only a single element instead of the usual two or three in a ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'' game, which hampers their effectiveness by quite a bit when enemies start resisting physical attacks. The biggest deal breaker is when the player starts encountering enemies immune to physical, as it renders them powerless until the player picks up Pierce, which bypasses all forms of physical resistance barring Repel. Oh, and since you can only distribute one copy of a cracked skill among your team leaders, you effectively are allowed to field only one human physical attacker at a time. To make things worse, physical specialists often are lacking in the Magic department, and due to [[OneStatToRuleThemAll Magic affecting both magic damage and magic defense]] they suffer considerably against enemy casters. Of the playable physical specialists, Atsuro usually avoids this trope due to him being your ''only'' non-protagonist physical specialist for most of the game; his competition, like Izuna and Kaido, will qualify due to their [[MagicallyIneptFighter comparatively abysmal Magic stats]].
* ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2''
** Daichi has rather balanced parameters, which is actually worse to pick compared to being specialized in an area. He is helpful early on due to his strength and agility, so a good candidate for the Multi-Strike ability. But compared to later characters who specialize in areas or, like Hinako or Keita, have better strength and agility than him, he quickly gets shoved aside for one of them.
** Makoto is a MagicKnight who favours Strength over Magic, meaning [[MasterOfNone she's outclassed at physical offence by Jungo, Keita and Hinako, outclassed at magic offence by any other magic user, and outclassed at mixed attacking by Io and Yamato]]. Her build doesn't even give her access to any notable niche skills, unlike Io whose "MagicKnight favouring Magic" build at least gives her access to Fire Boost/Amp.
* ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' has two examples involving partners:
** Nozomi is one of the first partners that you get, and she isn't too useful. Her damage-dealing attacks are all Gun-elemental, which means that until she gets her Awakening any enemy that is at least immune to Gun can simply NoSell her attacks. Her two non-damaging skills, Photo Flash and Seducing Shot, are more useful as in addition to possibly inflicting Daze and Charm respectively on all enemies, they also debuff their agility and physical attack by one stage respectively, but Navarre is much better at debuffing enemies once he learns Debilitate.
** Gaston is agreed to be one of the worst partners in the game, even more than Asahi and the previously-mentioned Nozomi. He can steal your Press Turns in attacking, and it still counts as ''your'' attack if he misses or the enemy blocks it. His awakened passive merely increases his damage output, which is his only saving grace. For this reason, Toki is regarded to be vastly superior to Gaston, mainly because she attacks at the beginning or the end of the turn without using your Press Turns, and the fact that she can inflict instant death reliably. Relatively mitigated when Gaston [[spoiler:obtains Gungnir after killing Odin, which pierces resistances]], but the issue of him stealing Press Turns persists, especially since he also learns [[spoiler:Gungnir]] Sever which is a PowerfulButInaccurate attack which can again cause you to take turn penalties, and his skillset doesn't really offer anything unique unlike, say, Nozomi's status-oriented arsenal or Hallelujah's anti-status and anti-Lost abilities.

** Arguments inevitably debate over the alignments as a whole, but Law stands out, in particular. Either it's a LawfulNeutral faction that, despite its flaws, [[WellIntentionedExtremist means well for humanity]], and its collectivist beliefs in the face of soul-corrupting demons is a NecessaryEvil... or it's a brutal, tyrannical, fascist nightmare demanding humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill mindless submission to YHVH]], and [[YouBastard you should feel bad if you side with it.]] So yeah... support [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI Yoshio/Yuji]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Zayin]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Zelenin]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV Jonathan]] at your own risk.

* ItsHardSoItSucks: More than a few [=JRPG=] enthusiasts who try this series for the first time (including those introduced to the franchise via ''Persona'') have come away feeling that the series' approach to difficulty relies too much on [[TrialAndErrorGameplay trial-and-error]] and [[LuckBasedMission luck]] (and the usual [=RPG=] trick of [[LevelGrinding spending hours grinding to out-stat a boss]] usually isn't viable). Of course, [[FandomBerserkButton saying this to any devoted fan of the series isn't a particularly good idea]].

* CreatorWorship: The series' creator and first director, Kouji "Cozy" Okada, and its iconic artist, Kazuma Kaneko, get this. Some fans even feel that later games following Okada's departure from Atlus and Kaneko reducing his involvement [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight simply aren't the same]].

* AdaptationDisplacement: ''Shin Megami Tensei'' spun-off from the ''Megami Tensei'' games, which were in turn based on the ''Literature/DigitalDevilStory'' series of books.

* In ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', this applies to any team leader specialized in physical attacks. Physical is only a single element instead of the usual two or three in a ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTensei'' game, which hampers their effectiveness by quite a bit when enemies start resisting physical attacks. The biggest deal breaker is when the player starts encountering enemies immune to physical, as it renders them powerless until the player picks up Pierce, which bypasses all forms of physical resistance barring Repel. Oh, and since you can only distribute one copy of a cracked skill among your team leaders, you effectively are allowed to field only one human physical attacker at a time. To make things worse, physical specialists often are lacking in the Magic department, and due to [[OneStatToRuleThemAll Magic affecting both magic damage and magic defense]] they suffer considerably against enemy casters. Of the playable physical specialists, Atsuro usually avoids this trope due to him being your ''only'' non-protagonist physical specialist for most of the game; his competition, like Izuna and Kaido, will qualify due to their [[MagicallyIneptFighter comparatively abysmal Magic stats]].

** For that matter, this is how the fandom sees Law factions and representatives, at best; being able to rip the big four Archangels a new one is part of the appeal for many fans. At worst, said Law followers are collective [[TheScrappy Scrappies]].

** Considering how important it is to apply buffs and debuffs in this game, any ability that removes either(Dekaja and Dekunda, respectively) can be a pain to deal with. A single cast can wipe out multiple turns of buff/debuff casts, durigng which time you've spent tens of MP to even the odds against the demons.

* UglyCute: Some of the demons that aren't [[OurMonstersAreDifferent mindbogglingly strange]] or {{Stripperific}} demon babes could arguably qualify. Decarabia is one such example.

** The general quality of the localizations done by Atlus USA in recent years has become something of a topic of discussion. This has been primarily a result of numerous cases CutAndPasteTranslation, poor text formatting or outright untranslated text being left in the English versions. ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'' are commonly used as examples of this.

** ''Devil Survivor'' takes it UpToEleven by adding the -dyne suffix. As if Megidolaon wasn't bad enough, [[spoiler: BonusBoss Lucifer]] can drop Megidoladyne on the ''entire map''. And it gets 50% more powerful with each hit, effectively making the fight a timed battle because it's Almighty and can't be blocked, so even with maxed magic and vitality it'll eventually do more damage than you've got hp.

* UncannyValley: Part of the series' aesthetic. While it remains distinctly {{manga}}, the characters tend to share the same grayish skin color and nearly all share the distinctive eye design.
** This was noticeably absent in ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the NightmareFuel of the game.
*** Both of those series had different character designers for the human characters, while keeping Kazuma Kaneko's demon/persona designs. Kaneko is responsible for the human character designs in all the main series ''Shin Megami Tensei'' games except ''[[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV IV]]'', as well as ''DDS'' and the ''Raidou'' games.

** ''VideoGame/TokyoMirageSessionsFE''. First, for being a huge AudienceAlienatingPremise. Many fans were expecting something like ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' or more ultimately ''VideoGame/MajinTensei'', considering ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' is a turn-based strategy game, or at least a [=SMT=] game with FE elements. And second, for looking more a "Persona" game rather than a [=SMT=] or FE game. While some fans consider it a good title despite not resembling [=SMT=] at all, other think this was another average {{Moe}} game and a wasted opportunity to make a crossover of two acclaimed franchises.

* BrokenBase: Because the series has a lax, minimalist tone in most games yet allows players a high degree of freedom with several factions to follow, differing opinions are common, and in many ways embraced, by the fanbase.