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* ''FilmJMenForever''. The US Navy is ordered to blow up the Moon where the BigBad has his SpaceBase.
-->"We are at war with the Moon. Look to the sky and fire when you see the white of its eye!"
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* ''FilmJMenForever''. The US Navy is ordered to blow up the Moon where the BigBad has his SpaceBase.
-->"We are at war with the Moon. Look to the sky and fire when you see the white of its eye!"
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Trope name is Sci Fi Writers Have No Sense Of Scale, not any of its subpages. Discussion here.


** ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' typically used a trick where one ship would fire, and then they would cut to the other ship receiving it. While mainly a result of technical and [[NoBudget budgetary]] limitations, it effectively allowed their scriptwriters to state whatever range they wished without contradicting the visuals--and the TOS writing room tended to have a much better [[SciFiWritersHave/NoSenseOfDistance sense of distance]] than later series'.

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** ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' typically used a trick where one ship would fire, and then they would cut to the other ship receiving it. While mainly a result of technical and [[NoBudget budgetary]] limitations, it effectively allowed their scriptwriters to state whatever range they wished without contradicting the visuals--and the TOS writing room tended to have a much better [[SciFiWritersHave/NoSenseOfDistance sense of distance]] distance than later series'.

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* Justified in SOME ''Franchise/{{Gundam}}'' series, where the use of [[MinovskyPhysics Minovsky Particle]] makes using radar difficult to impossible. Indeed, they interfere with ''all'' electro-magnetic phenomenon, and at extreme ranges, even interfered with visual light. Note that this didn't exactly mean the Federation and Zeon fleets were fighting at knife-point -- "Visual range" is a ''long'' ways in empty space. It was mostly the [[HumongousMecha Mobile Suits]] that got in everyone's faces.
** N-Jammers serve the same purpose in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED'' in addition to disabling nuclear power. It is a big deal that the Freedom Gundam has N-Jammer Cancelers, giving it near limitless nuclear energy and radar targeting that allows it to BeamSpam multiple targets at once with deadly accuracy.

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* Justified in SOME ''Franchise/{{Gundam}}'' series, where the use of [[MinovskyPhysics Minovsky Particle]] makes using radar difficult to impossible. Indeed, they impossible.
** They
interfere with ''all'' electro-magnetic phenomenon, and at extreme ranges, even interfered with visual light. Note that this didn't exactly mean the Federation and Zeon fleets were fighting at knife-point -- "Visual range" is a ''long'' ways in empty space. It was mostly the [[HumongousMecha Mobile Suits]] that got in everyone's faces.
** N-Jammers serve the same this purpose in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED'' in addition to disabling nuclear power. It is a big deal that the Freedom Gundam has N-Jammer Cancelers, giving it near limitless nuclear energy and radar targeting that allows it to BeamSpam multiple targets at once with deadly accuracy.
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When the phrase is used, [[HoldYourHippogriffs is often changed to reflect the enemy.]] For instance, in ''{{Franchise/Transformers}}'', it's "the wires of their optics".

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When the phrase is used, [[HoldYourHippogriffs is often changed to reflect the enemy.]] For instance, in ''{{Franchise/Transformers}}'', ''Franchise/{{Transformers}}'', it's "the wires of their optics".



* ''Film/{{Transformers}}'' (movie version), and in particular the Decepticon known as Starscream. Whilst primitive Raptor aircraft employed by the US Air Force were designed with the capability to lock and fire at ground-based targets outside visual range, this advanced alien warrior apparently is unable to target and hit the Hoover Dam's power station unless he's ''stationary'' and in ''robot mode''. On the other hand, he's ''[[TheStarscream Starscream]]''. He may have just wanted to add a personal touch.

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* ''Film/{{Transformers}}'' ''Film/{{Transformers|2007}}'' (movie version), and in particular the Decepticon known as Starscream. Whilst primitive Raptor aircraft employed by the US Air Force were designed with the capability to lock and fire at ground-based targets outside visual range, this advanced alien warrior apparently is unable to target and hit the Hoover Dam's power station unless he's ''stationary'' and in ''robot mode''. On the other hand, he's ''[[TheStarscream Starscream]]''. He may have just wanted to add a personal touch.
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** And finally re-{{justified}} in the post-Creator/{{Disney}} acquisition ''Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse'', where it's stated that the plasma casters used in the 'verse are in fact relatively short-ranged, losing cohesion and power after a few hundred kilometers at most. Several works use this as a plot point:

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** And finally re-{{justified}} re-justified in the post-Creator/{{Disney}} acquisition ''Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse'', where it's stated that the plasma casters used in the 'verse are in fact relatively short-ranged, losing cohesion and power after a few hundred kilometers at most. Several works use this as a plot point:



** In the Literature/GauntsGhosts novel ''Salvation's Reach'', the titular ship transporting the Ghosts is attacked by enemy vessels. Several characters have gone to the viewports to try and watch the fight. They discuss the fact that the other ships are probably too far away to see anything, which some of the guardsmen have trouble wrapping their heads around. Then they realise that what they are looking at is not the star-specked blackness, but the hull of a destroyed friendly as their ship desperately tries to put it between them and incoming torpedoes.

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** In the Literature/GauntsGhosts novel ''Salvation's Reach'', the titular ship transporting the Ghosts is attacked by enemy vessels. Several characters have gone to the viewports to try and watch the fight. They discuss the fact that the other ships are probably too far away to see anything, which some of the guardsmen have trouble wrapping their heads around. Then they realise that what they are looking at is not the star-specked blackness, but the hull of a destroyed friendly as their ship desperately tries to put it between them and incoming torpedoes.
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** ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'': The main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters, although the miniatures will be very short distances apart. The game gets around this by telling players that the miniatures are significantly out of scale with the rest of the game, [[GameplayAndStorySegregation otherwise they wouldn't be very fun to paint]]. The ship itself occupies a tiny point within the stem holding it up. The supporting base, while constituting 'close range' for various rules, is still an area several thousand kilometres across. Otherwise, games would need to be played on sports fields instead of tabletops. Fiction related to ships in Warhammer 40,000 will handle the trope in different ways in different works; see the Literature section for examples.

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** ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'': The main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters, although the miniatures will be very short distances apart. The game gets around this by telling players that the miniatures are significantly out of scale with the rest of the game, [[GameplayAndStorySegregation otherwise they wouldn't be very fun to paint]].paint, or the game would be played on sports fields instead of tabletops]]. The ship itself occupies a tiny point within the stem holding it up. The supporting base, while constituting 'close range' for various rules, is still an area several thousand kilometres across. Otherwise, games would need to be played on sports fields instead of tabletops. Fiction related to ships in Warhammer 40,000 will handle the trope in different ways in different works; see the Literature section for examples.
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** ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'': The main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters, although the miniatures will be very short distances apart. The game gets around this by telling players that the miniatures are significantly out of scale with the rest of the game, and the ship itself occupies a tiny point within the stem holding it up (otherwise, games would need to be played on sports fields instead of tabletops). Fiction related to ships in Warhammer 40,000 will handle the trope in different ways in different works; see the Literature section for examples.

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** ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'': The main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters, although the miniatures will be very short distances apart. The game gets around this by telling players that the miniatures are significantly out of scale with the rest of the game, and the [[GameplayAndStorySegregation otherwise they wouldn't be very fun to paint]]. The ship itself occupies a tiny point within the stem holding it up (otherwise, up. The supporting base, while constituting 'close range' for various rules, is still an area several thousand kilometres across. Otherwise, games would need to be played on sports fields instead of tabletops).tabletops. Fiction related to ships in Warhammer 40,000 will handle the trope in different ways in different works; see the Literature section for examples.

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* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/AlexisCarew''. The energy-dampening effects of [[SubspaceOrHyperspace darkspace]], where most combat in the series takes place, and the price of the {{Unobtainium}} that counters it, mean that the StandardStarshipScuffle ''has'' to take place within visual range, [[WoodenShipsAndIronMen with hand-loaded single-charge laser cannons aimed with the Mark I Eyeball]].

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* {{Justified}} Justified in ''Literature/AlexisCarew''. The energy-dampening effects of [[SubspaceOrHyperspace darkspace]], where most combat in the series takes place, and the price of the {{Unobtainium}} that counters it, mean that the StandardStarshipScuffle ''has'' to take place within visual range, [[WoodenShipsAndIronMen with hand-loaded single-charge laser cannons aimed with the Mark I Eyeball]].



* In the ''Literature/CiaphasCain'' book ''Death or Glory'', this is averted. As Cain notes:
--> Contrary to what you might see in an episode of ''Attack Run'', starships in combat seldom approach to within point blank range of one another, exchanging fire at distances of hundreds, if not thousands, of kilometres.



* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/HeavyObject''. The guns on Objects (a "land battleship"-style MilitaryMashupMachine which is the primary combatant in the 'verse) ''are'' capable of engaging faraway targets with indirect fire, but most fights ''between Objects'' take place at knife-fighting ranges of 5-10 km because punching through the tough "onion armor" on their hulls usually requires multiple direct hits on the same point (to give you an idea, [[SuperToughness the first Object ever fielded shrugged off a direct hit from a submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missile]]). Indirect fire is still part of the playbook, just not usually against other Objects, with the exception of the Amazon arc: the signature ability of the enemy Object, a railgun-based artillery piece dubbed Break Carrier, is accurately striking faraway targets with plunging fire from beyond visual range (behind mountains in this case).

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* {{Justified}} Justified in ''Literature/HeavyObject''. The guns on Objects (a "land battleship"-style MilitaryMashupMachine which is the primary combatant in the 'verse) ''are'' capable of engaging faraway targets with indirect fire, but most fights ''between Objects'' ''between'' Objects take place at knife-fighting ranges of 5-10 km km, because punching through the tough "onion armor" on their hulls usually requires multiple direct hits on the same point (to give you an idea, [[SuperToughness the first Object ever fielded shrugged off a direct hit from a submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missile]]). Indirect fire is still part of the playbook, just not usually against other Objects, with the exception of the Amazon arc: the signature ability of the enemy Object, a railgun-based artillery piece dubbed Break Carrier, is accurately striking faraway targets with plunging fire from beyond visual range (behind mountains in this case).



* ''Literature/JohnCarterOfMars''. Despite the incredible range of Martian rifles everyone still carries and uses swords/spears. An honor code exists that specifies that a Martian must, when challenged, use an equivalent or inferior weapon (if someone charges you with a long sword you can fight him with your short sword, but you can't go the Franchise/IndianaJones route and just shoot him.) It's also considered unsporting to kill an unsuspecting target without issuing a challenge first... the Green Martians near the start of the series ''do'' fire upon Red Martians from ambush, but as the Red Martians they're firing at are in a ''flying battleship'' it's not as unfair as it sounds.

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* ''Literature/JohnCarterOfMars''. Despite the incredible range of Martian rifles everyone still carries and uses swords/spears. An honor code exists that specifies that a Martian must, when challenged, use an equivalent or inferior weapon (if someone charges you with a long sword you can fight him with your short sword, but you can't go the Franchise/IndianaJones route and [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim just shoot him.him]].) It's also considered unsporting to kill an unsuspecting target without issuing a challenge first... the Green Martians near the start of the series ''do'' fire upon Red Martians from ambush, but as the Red Martians they're firing at are in a ''flying battleship'' it's not as unfair as it sounds.



* TabletopGame/Warhammer40000: Although the TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic spinoff game mostly averts this (see the Tabletop Games section below), stories in the setting dealing with space combat will take approaches that vary from work-to-work:
** In the ''Literature/CiaphasCain'' book ''Death or Glory'', this is averted. As Cain notes:
---> Contrary to what you might see in an episode of ''Attack Run'', starships in combat seldom approach to within point blank range of one another, exchanging fire at distances of hundreds, if not thousands, of kilometres.
** In the Literature/GauntsGhosts novel ''Salvation's Reach'', the titular ship transporting the Ghosts is attacked by enemy vessels. Several characters have gone to the viewports to try and watch the fight. They discuss the fact that the other ships are probably too far away to see anything, which some of the guardsmen have trouble wrapping their heads around. Then they realise that what they are looking at is not the star-specked blackness, but the hull of a destroyed friendly as their ship desperately tries to put it between them and incoming torpedoes.



** ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'': The main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).

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** ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'': The main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText diameters, although the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).miniatures will be very short distances apart. The game gets around this by telling players that the miniatures are significantly out of scale with the rest of the game, and the ship itself occupies a tiny point within the stem holding it up (otherwise, games would need to be played on sports fields instead of tabletops). Fiction related to ships in Warhammer 40,000 will handle the trope in different ways in different works; see the Literature section for examples.

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Natter, Example Indentation. I also moved the book example of ST to the Literature folder


* ''Film/StarshipTroopers'', where futuristic humanity, in possession of portable small-yield nuclear weapons, prefers to send footsoldiers ''[[ZergRush en masse]]'' into battle with weaponry largely incapable of hitting a target other than at point blank or very short range. On the other hand, this is only to be expected when you're employing the RedshirtArmy, all of whom are equipped with CoolButInefficient weaponry.
** Completely subverted in the original book: Narrator states that the Navy can blow the planet into smithereens, but they need M.I. (Mobile Infantry) to make precision strikes against certain targets, an example being the main character (and narrator) a part of ''Scare them into cooperation'' battle in the beginning of the book and the main battle near the end of the book has ''Capturing enemy commander'' as it's only real purpose (it's clearly stated that they didn't even have to fight for this planet this way - they could just blow up the rest of the bugs using mass destruction weapons). Another thing is the fact that the book is a sort of manifest against RedshirtArmy.
** Indeed. The book explicitly says there's more effective ways to kill an enemy, but sending in the MI sends a message: We can and will just walk right up to your face and kick your ass, and there's nothing you can do to stop us. And that's just with our foot soldiers.
** To be fair, we see Infantry operations on four occasions: First, as a show of strength against Bug opponents that the humans had completely underestimated; second, to clear out entrenched Bugs from sub-surface fortifications after most of them had been wiped out with airstrikes; third, on a search-and-rescue mission through what was supposed to be secured territory; and fourth, on a retrieval mission which required the location, identification and capture of a specific bug. Aside from the initial screw-up, none of the missions could have been easily accomplished remotely.
* ''Film/TopGun'' depicts aerial combat at absurdly short ranges for modern jet fighters. Sometimes jets are shown firing missiles at targets within the minimum effective range of that kind of missile. At one point during production, the military pilots doing the flying pointed this out and the filmmakers agreed to try shooting actual aerial combat. The resulting footage was completely unusable because the jets were so far away from each other that the viewer couldn't actually ''see'' anything, so they went back to shooting at closer ranges.
** The TOP GUN school of aerial combat is, in RealLife, also designed around the concept of Aerial Combat Manuevering, which is "getting into the furball" of knife fight range aerial combat. No pilot ''wants'' to be in that situation with Beyond Visual Range weaponry available, but TOP GUN is designed to help them ''if'' they do.

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* ''Film/StarshipTroopers'', where futuristic ''Film/StarshipTroopers'': Futuristic humanity, in possession of portable small-yield nuclear weapons, prefers to send footsoldiers ''[[ZergRush en masse]]'' into battle with weaponry largely incapable of hitting a target other than at point blank or very short range. On the other hand, this is only to be expected when you're employing the RedshirtArmy, all of whom are equipped with CoolButInefficient weaponry.
** Completely subverted in the original book: Narrator states that the Navy can blow the planet into smithereens, but they need M.I. (Mobile Infantry) to make precision strikes against certain targets, an example being the main character (and narrator) a part of ''Scare them into cooperation'' battle in the beginning of the book and the main battle near the end of the book has ''Capturing enemy commander'' as it's only real purpose (it's clearly stated that they didn't even have to fight for this planet this way - they could just blow up the rest of the bugs using mass destruction weapons). Another thing is the fact that the book is a sort of manifest against RedshirtArmy.
** Indeed. The book explicitly says there's more effective ways to kill an enemy, but sending in the MI sends a message: We can and will just walk right up to your face and kick your ass, and there's nothing you can do to stop us. And that's just with our foot soldiers.
** To be fair, we see Infantry operations on four occasions: First, as a show of strength against Bug opponents that the humans had completely underestimated; second, to clear out entrenched Bugs from sub-surface fortifications after most of them had been wiped out with airstrikes; third, on a search-and-rescue mission through what was supposed to be secured territory; and fourth, on a retrieval mission which required the location, identification and capture of a specific bug. Aside from the initial screw-up, none of the missions could have been easily accomplished remotely.
* ''Film/TopGun'' depicts aerial combat at absurdly short ranges for modern jet fighters. Sometimes jets are shown firing missiles at targets within the minimum effective range of that kind of missile. At one point during production, the military pilots doing the flying pointed this out and the filmmakers agreed to try shooting actual aerial combat. The resulting footage was completely unusable because the jets were so far away from each other that the viewer couldn't actually ''see'' anything, so they went back to shooting at closer ranges.
**
ranges. The TOP GUN school of aerial combat is, in RealLife, also designed around the concept of Aerial Combat Manuevering, which is "getting into the furball" of knife fight range aerial combat. No pilot ''wants'' to be in that situation with Beyond Visual Range weaponry available, but TOP GUN is designed to help them ''if'' they do.



** His mission is to retrieve the MacGuffin AND to free Megatron. He might've figured it's better to announce his arrival when he's close enough to cover for Megatron's escape.


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* ''Literature/StarshipTroopers'' subverts the trope. Narrator states that the Navy can blow the planet into smithereens, but they need M.I. (Mobile Infantry) to make precision strikes against certain targets, an example being the main character (and narrator) a part of ''Scare them into cooperation'' battle in the beginning of the book and the main battle near the end of the book has ''Capturing enemy commander'' as it's only real purpose (it's clearly stated that they didn't even have to fight for this planet this way - they could just blow up the rest of the bugs using mass destruction weapons). Another thing is the fact that the book is a sort of manifest against RedshirtArmy.

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[[folder:Anime]]

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[[folder:Anime]][[folder:Anime & Manga]]
* Justified in SOME ''Franchise/{{Gundam}}'' series, where the use of [[MinovskyPhysics Minovsky Particle]] makes using radar difficult to impossible. Indeed, they interfere with ''all'' electro-magnetic phenomenon, and at extreme ranges, even interfered with visual light. Note that this didn't exactly mean the Federation and Zeon fleets were fighting at knife-point -- "Visual range" is a ''long'' ways in empty space. It was mostly the [[HumongousMecha Mobile Suits]] that got in everyone's faces.
** N-Jammers serve the same purpose in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED'' in addition to disabling nuclear power. It is a big deal that the Freedom Gundam has N-Jammer Cancelers, giving it near limitless nuclear energy and radar targeting that allows it to BeamSpam multiple targets at once with deadly accuracy.
* Averted in ''Literature/LegendOfTheGalacticHeroes''. Most battles are fought at ranges so vast, the enemy fleet looks more like a particularly-ordered field of stars. Battles are shown as a series of jump cuts of part of one fleet firing, then to the opposing ships taking the attack and firing back. Notably, despite the light-second ranges, ships in that universe move so fast that if they needed to they could actually close such a huge gap and get right into the enemy's face in short order. On a few rare occasions, that's exactly what happened.



* Justified in SOME Franchise/{{Gundam}} series, where the use of [[MinovskyPhysics Minovsky Particle]] makes using radar difficult to impossible. Indeed, they interfere with ''all'' electro-magnetic phenomenon, and at extreme ranges, even interfered with visual light. Note that this didn't exactly mean the Federation and Zeon fleets were fighting at knife-point -- "Visual range" is a ''long'' ways in empty space. It was mostly the [[HumongousMecha Mobile Suits]] that got in everyone's faces.
** N-Jammers serve the same purpose in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED'' in addition to disabling nuclear power. It is a big deal that the Freedom Gundam has N-Jammer Cancelers, giving it near limitless nuclear energy and radar targeting that allows it to BeamSpam multiple targets at once with deadly accuracy.
* Averted for the most part in ''Manga/TowardTheTerra''. Several space battles are shown to be taking place at such distances that the opposing sides can't even see each other; at one point when preparing to attack a planet, the attacking force parks its superweapon behind a gas giant in the same solar system to keep it from being detected, and simply fires it from there when they're ready. The real reason close mobile suit battle happens is because most mobile suits seem at least somewhat capable of [[DodgeTheBullet dodging cannon fire]].



* Averted in ''Literature/LegendOfTheGalacticHeroes''. Most battles are fought at ranges so vast, the enemy fleet looks more like a particularly-ordered field of stars. Battles are shown as a series of jump cuts of part of one fleet firing, then to the opposing ships taking the attack and firing back. Notably, despite the light-second ranges, ships in that universe move so fast that if they needed to they could actually close such a huge gap and get right into the enemy's face in short order. On a few rare occasions, that's exactly what happened.

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* Averted for the most part in ''Literature/LegendOfTheGalacticHeroes''. Most ''Manga/TowardTheTerra''. Several space battles are fought at ranges so vast, the enemy fleet looks more like a particularly-ordered field of stars. Battles are shown as a series of jump cuts of part of one fleet firing, then to be taking place at such distances that the opposing ships taking the sides can't even see each other; at one point when preparing to attack a planet, the attacking force parks its superweapon behind a gas giant in the same solar system to keep it from being detected, and firing back. Notably, despite the light-second ranges, ships in that universe move so fast that if they needed to they could actually simply fires it from there when they're ready. The real reason close such a huge gap and get right into the enemy's face in short order. On a few rare occasions, that's exactly what happened.mobile suit battle happens is because most mobile suits seem at least somewhat capable of [[DodgeTheBullet dodging cannon fire]].



[[folder:Comics]]

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[[folder:Comics]][[folder:Comic Books]]



* The saying is spoofed in ''ComicStrip/TheWizardOfId''. Sir Rodney is being sent off to fight the Huns, and is told by the King not to shoot until you see the whites of their eyes. GilliganCut to Rodney being brought back, severely wounded.
-->"They must have been up drinking all night."
* Parodied in one issue of ''ComicBook/TheSimpsons'' ("Hail To The Cat!"), wherein the British have invaded Springfield ([[ItMakesSenseInContext long story]]), so the town stages a ''new'' American Revolution to force them out. Mayor Quimby makes the declaration, only for the British to pull out sunglasses ("We're not falling for that one again!"), and catch the Springfieldians off-guard.



* ''ComicStrip/TheFarSide'': [[https://ponderingprinciples.com/2018/05/09/far-sides-fractured-history/ One strip]] has an unfortunate British soldier at the Battle of Bunker Hill, one Charles "Bugeyed" Bingham...

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* ''ComicStrip/TheFarSide'': [[https://ponderingprinciples.com/2018/05/09/far-sides-fractured-history/ One strip]] has an unfortunate Parodied in one issue of ''ComicBook/TheSimpsons'' ("Hail To The Cat!"), wherein the British soldier at have invaded Springfield ([[ItMakesSenseInContext long story]]), so the Battle of Bunker Hill, town stages a ''new'' American Revolution to force them out. Mayor Quimby makes the declaration, only for the British to pull out sunglasses ("We're not falling for that one Charles "Bugeyed" Bingham...again!"), and catch the Springfieldians off-guard.



[[folder:Films -- Live-Action]]

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[[folder:Films [[folder:Comic Strips]]
* ''ComicStrip/TheFarSide'': [[https://ponderingprinciples.com/2018/05/09/far-sides-fractured-history/ One strip]] has an unfortunate British soldier at the Battle of Bunker Hill, one Charles "Bugeyed" Bingham...
* The saying is spoofed in ''ComicStrip/TheWizardOfId''. Sir Rodney is being sent off to fight the Huns, and is told by the King not to shoot until you see the whites of their eyes. GilliganCut to Rodney being brought back, severely wounded.
-->"They must have been up drinking all night."
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Film
-- Live-Action]]Live-Action]]
* In ''Film/{{Battleship}}'', ''Missouri'' engages the alien ship at close enough range that they not only can see each other visually, the shells can be fired directly at the alien ship without having to go through a ballistic arc.
* ''Film/IndependenceDay'', where advanced alien shielding technology is not matched by a comparable technology providing the ability to target and destroy enemy fighters outside visual range. On the other hand, your advanced technology is probably CoolButInefficient anyway if it can be hacked by a TV repairman using Apple OS.
* ''Film/PacificRim'' plays this painfully straight; in a world where the antagonists are Kaiju (skyscraper-sized monsters), all the attacks we see against them are within visual range; the opening prologue shows fighter jets doing a strafing run and crashing into the first beast that makes landfall. But even after the technology is invented allowing the construction of Jaegers (giant human-driven robots with [[WaveMotionGun Wave Motion Guns]] designed to fight kaiju), most of the fights are fisticuffs. Possibly justified since Kaiju move fast underwater (when they could be taken out from a distance), and must be engaged at close range when fighting on land to prevent catastrophic friendly fire from the Jaegers, since the Kaiju target population centers.
* ''Film/{{Spaceballs}}'', where the crew of the Eagle Five successfully jam Spaceball One's radar by visually locking onto, and firing a giant raspberry jam jar at, the capital ship's radar dish. Having said that, this somewhat backfired given Dark Helmet was able to ascertain the jammers' identity from their choice of weapon: ''"There's only one man in the universe who'd DARE give ME the RASPBERRY ... LOOONNNNE STARRRRRRR--*clunk*''
** This scene [[MST3KMantra gets a pass]] because it's [[RuleOfFunny hilarious, and in a comedy]].
** Justified in the case of Spaceball One itself by the sheer ineptitude of its gunners. (That Eagle Five wasn't even ''spotted'' before making its "attack" run also doesn't say much for their sensors. Again, {{Rule of Funny}} definitely applies here.)



* ''Film/IndependenceDay'', where advanced alien shielding technology is not matched by a comparable technology providing the ability to target and destroy enemy fighters outside visual range. On the other hand, your advanced technology is probably CoolButInefficient anyway if it can be hacked by a TV repairman using Apple OS.

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* ''Film/IndependenceDay'', where advanced alien shielding technology is not matched by a comparable technology providing ''Film/TopGun'' depicts aerial combat at absurdly short ranges for modern jet fighters. Sometimes jets are shown firing missiles at targets within the ability to target minimum effective range of that kind of missile. At one point during production, the military pilots doing the flying pointed this out and destroy enemy fighters outside visual range. On the filmmakers agreed to try shooting actual aerial combat. The resulting footage was completely unusable because the jets were so far away from each other hand, your advanced technology that the viewer couldn't actually ''see'' anything, so they went back to shooting at closer ranges.
** The TOP GUN school of aerial combat is, in RealLife, also designed around the concept of Aerial Combat Manuevering, which
is probably CoolButInefficient anyway if it can "getting into the furball" of knife fight range aerial combat. No pilot ''wants'' to be hacked by a TV repairman using Apple OS.in that situation with Beyond Visual Range weaponry available, but TOP GUN is designed to help them ''if'' they do.



* ''Film/{{Spaceballs}}'', where the crew of the Eagle Five successfully jam Spaceball One's radar by visually locking onto, and firing a giant raspberry jam jar at, the capital ship's radar dish. Having said that, this somewhat backfired given Dark Helmet was able to ascertain the jammers' identity from their choice of weapon: ''"There's only one man in the universe who'd DARE give ME the RASPBERRY ... LOOONNNNE STARRRRRRR--*clunk*''
** This scene [[MST3KMantra gets a pass]] because it's [[RuleOfFunny hilarious, and in a comedy]].
** Justified in the case of Spaceball One itself by the sheer ineptitude of its gunners. (That Eagle Five wasn't even ''spotted'' before making its "attack" run also doesn't say much for their sensors. Again, {{Rule of Funny}} definitely applies here.)
* ''Film/TopGun'' depicts aerial combat at absurdly short ranges for modern jet fighters. Sometimes jets are shown firing missiles at targets within the minimum effective range of that kind of missile. At one point during production, the military pilots doing the flying pointed this out and the filmmakers agreed to try shooting actual aerial combat. The resulting footage was completely unusable because the jets were so far away from each other that the viewer couldn't actually ''see'' anything, so they went back to shooting at closer ranges.
** The TOP GUN school of aerial combat is, in RealLife, also designed around the concept of Aerial Combat Manuevering, which is "getting into the furball" of knife fight range aerial combat. No pilot ''wants'' to be in that situation with Beyond Visual Range weaponry available, but TOP GUN is designed to help them ''if'' they do.
* ''Film/PacificRim'' plays this painfully straight; in a world where the antagonists are Kaiju (skyscraper-sized monsters), all the attacks we see against them are within visual range; the opening prologue shows fighter jets doing a strafing run and crashing into the first beast that makes landfall. But even after the technology is invented allowing the construction of Jaegers (giant human-driven robots with [[WaveMotionGun Wave Motion Guns]] designed to fight kaiju), most of the fights are fisticuffs. Possibly justified since Kaiju move fast underwater (when they could be taken out from a distance), and must be engaged at close range when fighting on land to prevent catastrophic friendly fire from the Jaegers, since the Kaiju target population centers.
* In ''Film/{{Battleship}}'', ''Missouri'' engages the alien ship at close enough range that they not only can see each other visually, the shells can be fired directly at the alien ship without having to go through a ballistic arc.



* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/AlexisCarew''. The energy-dampening effects of [[SubspaceOrHyperspace darkspace]], where most combat in the series takes place, and the price of the {{Unobtainium}} that counters it, mean that the StandardStarshipScuffle ''has'' to take place within visual range, [[WoodenShipsAndIronMen with hand-loaded single-charge laser cannons aimed with the Mark I Eyeball]].
* In the second ''Literature/ArtemisFowl'' book, while watching goblins approached, Butler asks, "Do we wait until we see the whites of their eyes?" Commander Root responds, "Goblin eyes don't have whites."
* In the ''Literature/CiaphasCain'' book ''Death or Glory'', this is averted. As Cain notes:
--> Contrary to what you might see in an episode of ''Attack Run'', starships in combat seldom approach to within point blank range of one another, exchanging fire at distances of hundreds, if not thousands, of kilometres.



* ''Literature/JackRyan'': With a relatively few exceptions, neither protagonists nor antagonists go for this trope where it's possible to avoid it, preferring to engage the opposition as far away as possible while not sacrificing accuracy. Even bombing, traditionally requiring one to be somewhere near the target, is done from the maximum distance possible thanks to guided bombs, like those used in ''Literature/ClearAndPresentDanger'' or in ''The Bear and the Dragon'', where American fighter-bombers launch specially designed bombs from almost a ''hundred'' kilometers away, using satellite imagery and AWACS to guide them in the rest of the way. Since AA and [=SAMs=] don't have the same range, the enemy doesn't even have a chance to know the attack is coming, much less defend against it.



* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/HeavyObject''. The guns on Objects (a "land battleship"-style MilitaryMashupMachine which is the primary combatant in the 'verse) ''are'' capable of engaging faraway targets with indirect fire, but most fights ''between Objects'' take place at knife-fighting ranges of 5-10 km because punching through the tough "onion armor" on their hulls usually requires multiple direct hits on the same point (to give you an idea, [[SuperToughness the first Object ever fielded shrugged off a direct hit from a submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missile]]). Indirect fire is still part of the playbook, just not usually against other Objects, with the exception of the Amazon arc: the signature ability of the enemy Object, a railgun-based artillery piece dubbed Break Carrier, is accurately striking faraway targets with plunging fire from beyond visual range (behind mountains in this case).



* Justified in the Literature/VorkosiganSaga. The ever-escalating race between space weapons and the defenses to stop them has resulted in extremely short ranged weaponry. This is explained in a brief narrative Infodump towards the end of ''Literature/TheWarriorsApprentice'' and more or less never comes up again; despite being ostensibly military sci-fi, the books usually focus on people, not pulse lasers.

to:

* Justified Also averted in CS Friedman's ''In Conquest Born'', where the Literature/VorkosiganSaga. The ever-escalating race between space weapons idea of getting close enough to an enemy ship to be able to attempt to capture it was considered insane. Which made it all the more stunning when they pulled it off.
* ''Literature/JackRyan'': With a relatively few exceptions, neither protagonists nor antagonists go for this trope where it's possible to avoid it, preferring to engage the opposition as far away as possible while not sacrificing accuracy. Even bombing, traditionally requiring one to be somewhere near the target, is done from the maximum distance possible thanks to guided bombs, like those used in ''Literature/ClearAndPresentDanger'' or in ''The Bear
and the defenses Dragon'', where American fighter-bombers launch specially designed bombs from almost a ''hundred'' kilometers away, using satellite imagery and AWACS to stop guide them has resulted in extremely short ranged weaponry. This is explained in a brief narrative Infodump towards the end rest of ''Literature/TheWarriorsApprentice'' the way. Since AA and more or [=SAMs=] don't have the same range, the enemy doesn't even have a chance to know the attack is coming, much less never comes up again; despite being ostensibly military sci-fi, the books usually focus on people, not pulse lasers.defend against it.



* Largely averted in the ''Literature/{{Lensman}}'' series, where "beams" are used for long-range combat and ships have "tractor beams" to pull the enemy in close so that physical missiles don't take forever to get there (even so, it's still described as taking quite a while for the missiles to cross the gap, and only the fact that the other ship ''can't move'' allow them to actually hit it). Smith was also fully aware that space has three dimensions. Fairly early on, the enemy develops "tractor shears" that allow them to cut a tractor beam and get away from heavier and more powerful but slower ships; the response is a technique called "englobement", where you surround them in three dimensions and use ''pressor'' beams from multiple ships to hold them in the center while you temporarily turn said center into the heart of a star.



* In the second ''Literature/ArtemisFowl'' book, while watching goblins approached, Butler asks, "Do we wait until we see the whites of their eyes?" Commander Root responds, "Goblin eyes don't have whites."
* In the ''Literature/CiaphasCain'' book ''Death or Glory'', this is averted. As Cain notes:
--> Contrary to what you might see in an episode of ''Attack Run'', starships in combat seldom approach to within point blank range of one another, exchanging fire at distances of hundreds, if not thousands, of kilometres.
* Also averted in CS Friedman's ''In Conquest Born'', where the idea of getting close enough to an enemy ship to be able to attempt to capture it was considered insane. Which made it all the more stunning when they pulled it off.
* Largely averted in the ''Literature/{{Lensman}}'' series, where "beams" are used for long-range combat and ships have "tractor beams" to pull the enemy in close so that physical missiles don't take forever to get there (even so, it's still described as taking quite a while for the missiles to cross the gap, and only the fact that the other ship ''can't move'' allow them to actually hit it). Smith was also fully aware that space has three dimensions. Fairly early on, the enemy develops "tractor shears" that allow them to cut a tractor beam and get away from heavier and more powerful but slower ships; the response is a technique called "englobement", where you surround them in three dimensions and use ''pressor'' beams from multiple ships to hold them in the center while you temporarily turn said center into the heart of a star.

to:

* In the second ''Literature/ArtemisFowl'' book, while watching goblins approached, Butler asks, "Do we wait ''Literature/MenMartiansAndMachines'' has "Don't shoot until we you see the whites green of their eyes?" Commander Root responds, "Goblin eyes don't have whites."
*
teeth." In the ''Literature/CiaphasCain'' book ''Death or Glory'', this is averted. As Cain notes:
--> Contrary to what you might see in an episode of ''Attack Run'', starships in combat seldom approach to within point blank range of one another, exchanging fire at distances of hundreds, if not thousands, of kilometres.
* Also averted in CS Friedman's ''In Conquest Born'', where the idea of getting close enough to an enemy ship to be able to attempt to capture it was considered insane. Which made it all the more stunning when
that case they pulled it off.
* Largely averted in
were the ''Literature/{{Lensman}}'' series, where "beams" are used for long-range combat and ships have "tractor beams" to pull the enemy in close so that physical missiles don't take forever to get there (even so, it's still described as taking quite a while for the missiles to cross the gap, and only the fact that the other ship ''can't move'' allow them to actually hit it). Smith was also fully aware that space has three dimensions. Fairly early on, the enemy develops "tractor shears" that allow them to cut a tractor beam and get away from heavier and more powerful but slower ships; the response is a technique called "englobement", where you surround them in three dimensions and use ''pressor'' beams from multiple ships to hold them in the center while you temporarily turn said center into the heart width of a star.an airlock door away, however.



* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/AlexisCarew''. The energy-dampening effects of [[SubspaceOrHyperspace darkspace]], where most combat in the series takes place, and the price of the {{Unobtainium}} that counters it, mean that the StandardStarshipScuffle ''has'' to take place within visual range, [[WoodenShipsAndIronMen with hand-loaded single-charge laser cannons aimed with the Mark I Eyeball]].
* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/HeavyObject''. The guns on Objects (a "land battleship"-style MilitaryMashupMachine which is the primary combatant in the 'verse) ''are'' capable of engaging faraway targets with indirect fire, but most fights ''between Objects'' take place at knife-fighting ranges of 5-10 km because punching through the tough "onion armor" on their hulls usually requires multiple direct hits on the same point (to give you an idea, [[SuperToughness the first Object ever fielded shrugged off a direct hit from a submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missile]]). Indirect fire is still part of the playbook, just not usually against other Objects, with the exception of the Amazon arc: the signature ability of the enemy Object, a railgun-based artillery piece dubbed Break Carrier, is accurately striking faraway targets with plunging fire from beyond visual range (behind mountains in this case).
* ''Literature/MenMartiansAndMachines'' has "Don't shoot until you see the green of their teeth." In that case they were the width of an airlock door away, however.

to:

* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/AlexisCarew''. The energy-dampening effects of [[SubspaceOrHyperspace darkspace]], where most combat Justified in the series takes place, ''Literature/VorkosiganSaga''. The ever-escalating race between space weapons and the price of defenses to stop them has resulted in extremely short ranged weaponry. This is explained in a brief narrative Infodump towards the {{Unobtainium}} that counters it, mean that end of ''Literature/TheWarriorsApprentice'' and more or less never comes up again; despite being ostensibly military sci-fi, the StandardStarshipScuffle ''has'' to take place within visual range, [[WoodenShipsAndIronMen with hand-loaded single-charge laser cannons aimed with the Mark I Eyeball]].
* {{Justified}} in ''Literature/HeavyObject''. The guns on Objects (a "land battleship"-style MilitaryMashupMachine which is the primary combatant in the 'verse) ''are'' capable of engaging faraway targets with indirect fire, but most fights ''between Objects'' take place at knife-fighting ranges of 5-10 km because punching through the tough "onion armor" on their hulls
books usually requires multiple direct hits focus on the same point (to give you an idea, [[SuperToughness the first Object ever fielded shrugged off a direct hit from a submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missile]]). Indirect fire is still part of the playbook, just people, not usually against other Objects, with the exception of the Amazon arc: the signature ability of the enemy Object, a railgun-based artillery piece dubbed Break Carrier, is accurately striking faraway targets with plunging fire from beyond visual range (behind mountains in this case).
* ''Literature/MenMartiansAndMachines'' has "Don't shoot until you see the green of their teeth." In that case they were the width of an airlock door away, however.
pulse lasers.



* Played straight in all ''Franchise/StargateVerse'' series: fights between ships invariably happen within visual range.



* Played straight in all ''Franchise/StargateVerse'' series: fights between ships invariably happen within visual range.



* ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquer3TiberiumWars'' includes walking artillery units for the GDI that can fire the length of the map. However, for game balance purposes, they can only do this when a sniper is close enough to paint the target with a laser designator.
** This is actually realistic, since real artillery requires SOMEONE to spot for them in order to correct the fire. While in RealLife, they could be able to fire at such range without a spotter, it would be a complete waste to fire at a position without a clue if your shots are hitting the spot they're supposed to.
** Juggernauts could fire across half the map in their normal attack mode in the last mission of the NOD campaign. This was so they could pound the Threshold tower's defenses, but any juggernauts had this modified range. (Cue pounding of their ion cannon structure, which is another sidenote altogether...)
* ''VideoGame/EveOnline'': The range of ship weapons varies depending on the size and type of the weapon. Small ships usually have a max weapon range of few dozen kilometers for long range weapons and a few kilometers for short range ones. Large battleships can potentially hit targets from several hundred kilometers away (although their close range weapons still require getting very close, especially for such slow and hard to maneuver ships). Large scale space battles tend to consist out of two large groups of ships about 100 kilometers from each other, blowing up the other group by focusing fire to one ship at a time.



* DoubleSubverted in ''Franchise/MassEffect''. The fluff describes an aversion, with dreadnoughts acting like self-propelled artillery in space: keeping well back from the engagement and firing at extreme range. However the VFX artists naturally wanted more dramatic visuals: every starship battle shown in the series plays the trope straight, taking place in situations where extreme range would be physically infeasible (such as within the arms of the Citadel) or risk damaging a planet with a stray shot (an orbital battle tactic used in the Krogan Rebellions, also described in the fluff).
* In ''VideoGame/{{Rodina}}'', you can spot hostile ships from thousands of kilometres away as red rings on your HUD, but your default weapon sprays bullets so wide its more practical to fight them at a distance of 30 kilometres or ''less''.
* In ''VideoGame/SinsOfASolarEmpire'', highly-advanced ships must close to within spitting distance of one another to fight. This is further enforced by the fact that ships can only fight within the same gravity well, which doesn't go very far beyond planetary orbit. The only weapons that can go beyond that are considered superweapons and can only target planets.
* ''VideoGame/StarControlII'' has some spaceships that can hit enemies from the other side of the map (Earthling, Druuge), and a few who can only hit at what's effectively ''melee'' range (Zot-Dot-Pik, Ilwrath).
* Averted in ''VideoGame/StarRuler''. Even the weakest, smallest, lowest-tech weapons have ranges measured in fractions of an AU (about 150 million km or 8 light-minutes) and ranges only go up from there.
* ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' has a blanket maximum range of 10 km for all space weapons, possibly due to technical limitations. You also can't even target an enemy ship from more than about 21 km.
* Averted in ''VideoGame/{{Stellaris}}'': while battles are chaotic mishmashes where ships circle each other with lots of Beam Spam, it's clear that the battles are taking place over ''at least'' half an Astronomic Unit (half the distance between Earth and the Sun), given the visual representation. Missiles are also the second longest-ranged weapons, with capital class X-size weapons having the longest range of about ''two'' AU. Kinetic weapons are realistically the shortest ranged weapons, requiring close combat of half an AU. Beams start shooting at about 1.5 AU.



* ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquer3TiberiumWars'' includes walking artillery units for the GDI that can fire the length of the map. However, for game balance purposes, they can only do this when a sniper is close enough to paint the target with a laser designator.
** This is actually realistic, since real artillery requires SOMEONE to spot for them in order to correct the fire. While in RealLife, they could be able to fire at such range without a spotter, it would be a complete waste to fire at a position without a clue if your shots are hitting the spot they're supposed to.
** Juggernauts could fire across half the map in their normal attack mode in the last mission of the NOD campaign. This was so they could pound the Threshold tower's defenses, but any juggernauts had this modified range. (Cue pounding of their ion cannon structure, which is another sidenote altogether...)
* ''VideoGame/EveOnline'': The range of ship weapons varies depending on the size and type of the weapon. Small ships usually have a max weapon range of few dozen kilometers for long range weapons and a few kilometers for short range ones. Large battleships can potentially hit targets from several hundred kilometers away (although their close range weapons still require getting very close, especially for such slow and hard to maneuver ships). Large scale space battles tend to consist out of two large groups of ships about 100 kilometers from each other, blowing up the other group by focusing fire to one ship at a time.
* ''VideoGame/StarControlII'' has some spaceships that can hit enemies from the other side of the map (Earthling, Druuge), and a few who can only hit at what's effectively ''melee'' range (Zot-Dot-Pik, Ilwrath).



* ''Universal Combat'' is perhaps one of the best arguments for why this is a good thing to have. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R94jmLqtc6I Behold!]]
* ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' has a blanket maximum range of 10 km for all space weapons, possibly due to technical limitations. You also can't even target an enemy ship from more than about 21 km.

to:

* ''Universal Combat'' ''VideoGame/UniversalCombat'' is perhaps one of the best arguments for why this is a good thing to have. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R94jmLqtc6I Behold!]]
* ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' has a blanket maximum range of 10 km for all space weapons, possibly due to technical limitations. You also can't even target an enemy ship from more than about 21 km.
Behold!]]



* In ''VideoGame/SinsOfASolarEmpire'', highly-advanced ships must close to within spitting distance of one another to fight. This is further enforced by the fact that ships can only fight within the same gravity well, which doesn't go very far beyond planetary orbit. The only weapons that can go beyond that are considered superweapons and can only target planets.
* DoubleSubverted in ''Franchise/MassEffect''. The fluff describes an aversion, with dreadnoughts acting like self-propelled artillery in space: keeping well back from the engagement and firing at extreme range. However the VFX artists naturally wanted more dramatic visuals: every starship battle shown in the series plays the trope straight, taking place in situations where extreme range would be physically infeasible (such as within the arms of the Citadel) or risk damaging a planet with a stray shot (an orbital battle tactic used in the Krogan Rebellions, also described in the fluff).
* In ''VideoGame/{{Rodina}}'', you can spot hostile ships from thousands of kilometres away as red rings on your HUD, but your default weapon sprays bullets so wide its more practical to fight them at a distance of 30 kilometres or ''less''.
* Averted in ''VideoGame/StarRuler''. Even the weakest, smallest, lowest-tech weapons have ranges measured in fractions of an AU (about 150 million km or 8 light-minutes) and ranges only go up from there.
* Averted in ''VideoGame/{{Stellaris}}'': while battles are chaotic mishmashes where ships circle each other with lots of Beam Spam, it's clear that the battles are taking place over ''at least'' half an Astronomic Unit (half the distance between Earth and the Sun), given the visual representation. Missiles are also the second longest-ranged weapons, with capital class X-size weapons having the longest range of about ''two'' AU. Kinetic weapons are realistically the shortest ranged weapons, requiring close combat of half an AU. Beams start shooting at about 1.5 AU.



* ''Webcomic/DarthsAndDroids'' pokes fun at this in [[http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0964.html one strip,]] where the transports are ordered to fly DIRECTLY at the Star Destroyers, because their weapons are calibrated to aim at targets at "ultra long range," not right next to the ship. Before they can readjust their weapons, the transport is gone.



* ''Webcomic/DarthsAndDroids'' pokes fun at this in [[http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0964.html one strip,]] where the transports are ordered to fly DIRECTLY at the Star Destroyers, because their weapons are calibrated to aim at targets at "ultra long range," not right next to the ship. Before they can readjust their weapons, the transport is gone.
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* ''ComicStrip/TheFarSide'': [[https://ponderingprinciples.com/2018/05/09/far-sides-fractured-history/ One strip]] has an unfortunate British soldier at the Battle of Bunker Hill, one Charles "Bugeyed" Bingham...
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* Averted largely in ''LightNovel/StarshipOperators'' where the trainee crew who mans the ship for the majority of the show stress the ranges involved in combat early on. Several of the enemies ships play with this concept, running in stealth mode (drifting into a "no miss" range and attack angle, featuring extremely advanced stealth), a remote drone Hyperjumping all over the place like a bunny on steroids (thus avoiding the return fire by not being there when it is ready), or just plain running in (featuring a nigh invincible bow designed specifically for ramming other ships).

to:

* Averted largely in ''LightNovel/StarshipOperators'' ''Literature/StarshipOperators'' where the trainee crew who mans the ship for the majority of the show stress the ranges involved in combat early on. Several of the enemies ships play with this concept, running in stealth mode (drifting into a "no miss" range and attack angle, featuring extremely advanced stealth), a remote drone Hyperjumping all over the place like a bunny on steroids (thus avoiding the return fire by not being there when it is ready), or just plain running in (featuring a nigh invincible bow designed specifically for ramming other ships).



* {{Justified}} in ''LightNovel/HeavyObject''. The guns on Objects (a "land battleship"-style MilitaryMashupMachine which is the primary combatant in the 'verse) ''are'' capable of engaging faraway targets with indirect fire, but most fights ''between Objects'' take place at knife-fighting ranges of 5-10 km because punching through the tough "onion armor" on their hulls usually requires multiple direct hits on the same point (to give you an idea, [[SuperToughness the first Object ever fielded shrugged off a direct hit from a submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missile]]). Indirect fire is still part of the playbook, just not usually against other Objects, with the exception of the Amazon arc: the signature ability of the enemy Object, a railgun-based artillery piece dubbed Break Carrier, is accurately striking faraway targets with plunging fire from beyond visual range (behind mountains in this case).

to:

* {{Justified}} in ''LightNovel/HeavyObject''.''Literature/HeavyObject''. The guns on Objects (a "land battleship"-style MilitaryMashupMachine which is the primary combatant in the 'verse) ''are'' capable of engaging faraway targets with indirect fire, but most fights ''between Objects'' take place at knife-fighting ranges of 5-10 km because punching through the tough "onion armor" on their hulls usually requires multiple direct hits on the same point (to give you an idea, [[SuperToughness the first Object ever fielded shrugged off a direct hit from a submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missile]]). Indirect fire is still part of the playbook, just not usually against other Objects, with the exception of the Amazon arc: the signature ability of the enemy Object, a railgun-based artillery piece dubbed Break Carrier, is accurately striking faraway targets with plunging fire from beyond visual range (behind mountains in this case).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* Averted in ''VideoGame/{{Stellaris}}'': while battles are chaotic mishmashes where ships circle each other with lots of Beam Spam, it's clear that the battles are taking place over ''at least'' half an Astronomic Unit (half the distance between Earth and the Sun), given the visual representation. Missiles are also the second longest-ranged weapons, with capital class X-size weapons having the longest range of about ''two'' AU. Kinetic weapons are realistically the shortest ranged weapons, requiring close combat of half an AU. Beams start shooting at about 1.5 AU.
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** The TOP GUN school of aerial combat is, in RealLife, also designed around the concept of Aerial Combat Manuevering, which is "getting into the furball" of knife fight range aerial combat. No pilot ''wants'' to be in that situation with Beyond Visual Range weaponry available, but TOP GUN is designed to help them ''if'' they do.
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** In the ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS05E15ByInfernosLight By Inferno's Light]]", the Defiant has to get right on top of a stolen runabout to use its tractor beam on it, but its normal weapon systems could target the runabout from a distance you'd have to jump to warp for about a second to get on top of (warp 1 is light speed).
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* Averting this trope probably isn't much [[RuleOfCool fun]] to watch in a visual medium, as a battle between starships where the enemy ship isn't blown up right before your eyes can be a bit dull. In the ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "The Wounded", two ships fire at each other at a range of over 100,000 kilometers. The characters watch the exchange on a screen with little symbols representing the ships and the shots. The fight is, needless to say, quite boring. ''Andromeda'' uses this and gets around it somewhat by showing the eventual collision of the missiles with the ship (sometimes. Other times, the dot representing the other ship just disappears), or just showing the battle if they're close enough for Anti-Proton blasts (less than 5 light seconds away, usually). Books have an easier time averting this due to the nature of the medium.

to:

* Averting this trope probably isn't much [[RuleOfCool fun]] to watch in a visual medium, as a battle between starships where the enemy ship isn't blown up right before your eyes can be a bit dull.dull, especially given the limitations of pre- and early CGI. In the ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "The Wounded", two ships fire at each other at a range of over 100,000 kilometers. The characters watch the exchange on a screen with little symbols representing the ships and the shots. The fight is, needless to say, quite boring. ''Andromeda'' uses this and gets around it somewhat by showing the eventual collision of the missiles with the ship (sometimes. Other times, the dot representing the other ship just disappears), or just showing the battle if they're close enough for Anti-Proton blasts (less than 5 light seconds away, usually). Books have an easier time averting this due to the nature of the medium.
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* The longest-ranged anticapital gun in the later ''[[VideoGame/{{X}} X-Universe]]'' games [[ArbitraryMaximumRange fades out]] at 6.62 km. Factor in, that's only two to three times longer than the ''ship'' is, and that the effective range (i.e. where a moving target is likely to avoid it) is often a kilometer or so shorter. Averted with missile frigates, however, whose MacrossMissileMassacre can blow away targets from nearly 80 kilometers away (though effective range is closer to 30 km because of sensor range limitations, unless you have another ship [[TargetSpotter acting as a spotter]]). Weapon ranges remain equally pathetic in ''Videogame/XRebirth'', where the Plasma/JET LR DeathRay on the Olmekron has a range shorter than ship it's mounted on.

to:

* The longest-ranged anticapital gun in the later ''[[VideoGame/{{X}} X-Universe]]'' games [[ArbitraryMaximumRange [[ArbitraryWeaponRange fades out]] at 6.62 km. Factor in, that's only two to three times longer than the ''ship'' is, and that the effective range (i.e. where a moving target is likely to avoid it) is often a kilometer or so shorter. Averted with missile frigates, however, whose MacrossMissileMassacre can blow away targets from nearly 80 kilometers away (though effective range is closer to 30 km because of sensor range limitations, unless you have another ship [[TargetSpotter acting as a spotter]]). Weapon ranges remain equally pathetic in ''Videogame/XRebirth'', where the Plasma/JET LR DeathRay on the Olmekron has a range shorter than ship it's mounted on.
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[[folder:Film]]

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[[folder:Film]][[folder:Films -- Live-Action]]

Changed: 4054

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Cleanup. Cut aversions.


* Averted in ''TabletopGame/StarFleetBattles'', the tactical tabletop adaptation of ship-to-ship combat in the ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' universe. Hexes represent an area of space 10,000 kilometers wide, and most combat takes place with several hexes separating the two forces.
* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', even the biggest artillery units have a maximum range which is, to scale, ''several hundred meters''. Later books addressed this by giving artillery units ranges fully capable of targeting another table in the next room. By contrast, in ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'', a space combat game set in the same universe, the main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).
* In ''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'', the absolute largest (mass-produced) direct-fire weapon that the building-sized [[HumongousMecha BattleMechs]] can mount has a range well under 1 kilometer. Artillery can hit further out but is incredibly inaccurate. The writers of the wargame have stated that they made engagement ranges so small to prevent every battle from turning into a boring sniper battle, and to allow melee combat to coexist with laser cannons and cruise missiles. Optional rules exist for advanced players with too much time to kill and a football field to play on, allowing [=BattleMechs=] to blast each other from a dozen miles away with a few upgrades and a steadied arm. However, like ''Warhammer'', space-combat has ranges measured in hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
* Averted in ''Tabletopgame/StarFinder'', where a hex in space combat represents an abstraction to allow combat to occur.
* Hilariously exaggerated in ''Tabletopgame/XWingMiniatures'' and ''Tabletopgame/StarWarsArmada''. In X-Wing, starfighters occupy the entirety of their approximately 1" x 1" base. At this scale, maximum range for weapons would be a few hundred yards. In Armada, given even the smallest ships represent capital ships from Star Wars, the ranges are a little better but still laughably short. Given both games are adaptations of Star Wars, it keeps in the spirit of the fiction.
** Looking at the page image for X-Wing, that small, red, piece of cardboard behind the X-Wing miniature? That's maximum range. To scale, these pilots can't hit each other past distances a modern rifleman can manage.
** Looking at the page image for Armada, that large ship is a Victory class Star Destroyer and about 900 meters long. The ruler just in front of it is maximum range. Even generously assuming it can shoot five kilometers, that would embarrass a World War I Navy.

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* Averted in ''TabletopGame/StarFleetBattles'', the tactical tabletop adaptation of ship-to-ship combat in the ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' universe. Hexes represent an area of space 10,000 kilometers wide, and most combat takes place with several hexes separating the two forces.
* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', even the biggest artillery units have a maximum range which is, to scale, ''several hundred meters''. Later books addressed this by giving artillery units ranges fully capable of targeting another table in the next room. By contrast, in ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'', a space combat game set in the same universe, the main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).
* In ''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'', the
''TabletopGame/BattleTech'': The absolute largest (mass-produced) direct-fire weapon that the building-sized [[HumongousMecha BattleMechs]] can mount has a range well under 1 kilometer. Artillery can hit further out but is incredibly inaccurate. The writers of the wargame have stated that they made engagement ranges so small to prevent every battle from turning into a boring sniper battle, and to allow melee combat to coexist with laser cannons and cruise missiles. Optional rules exist for advanced players with too much time to kill and a football field to play on, allowing [=BattleMechs=] to blast each other from a dozen miles away with a few upgrades and a steadied arm. However, like ''Warhammer'', space-combat has ranges measured in hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
* Averted in ''Tabletopgame/StarFinder'', where a hex in space combat represents ''Franchise/StarWars'':
** ''TabletopGame/StarWarsArmada'': Given how even the smallest ships represent capital ships from ''Star Wars'', the ranges are very noticeably short. As
an abstraction to allow combat to occur.
* Hilariously exaggerated in ''Tabletopgame/XWingMiniatures'' and ''Tabletopgame/StarWarsArmada''. In X-Wing, starfighters
example, a ''Victory''-class Star Destroyer, about 900 meters long, has its range measured using a ruler about five times its length. Even generously assuming it can shoot five kilometers, that would embarrass a World War I Navy.
** ''TabletopGame/XWingMiniatures'': Starfighters
occupy the entirety of their approximately 1" x 1" base. At this scale, maximum range for weapons would be a few hundred yards. In Armada, given even the smallest ships represent capital ships from Star Wars, the ranges are a little better but still laughably short. Given both games are adaptations of Star Wars, it keeps in the spirit of the fiction.\n** Looking at the page image for X-Wing, that small, red, piece of cardboard behind the X-Wing miniature? That's maximum range. To scale, these pilots can't hit each other past distances a modern rifleman can manage.
* ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'':
** Looking at Even the page image for Armada, that large ship is biggest artillery units have a Victory class Star Destroyer and about 900 meters long. The ruler just in front of it is maximum range. Even generously assuming it can shoot five kilometers, that would embarrass a World War I Navy.range which is, to scale, ''several hundred meters''. Later books address this by giving artillery units ranges fully capable of targeting another table in the next room.
** ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'': The main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).



* Your capital ships in ''VideoGame/{{Homeworld}}'', whilst equipped with point defense weaponry, cannot target an enemy ship visible on radar tracking, which is out of visual range.
** That said, distances in the battles are measured in tens to hundreds of kilometers. The Mothership itself is something like four to six kilometers on its longest side, for goodness' sake. So this might actually be an aversion - visual range is just a freaking long distance.
** Not even close, hundreds of kilometers is nothing in space.

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* ''VideoGame/{{Homeworld}}'': Your capital ships in ''VideoGame/{{Homeworld}}'', ships, whilst equipped with point defense weaponry, cannot target an enemy ship visible on radar tracking, which is out of visual range.
** That said, distances
range. Distances in the battles are measured in tens to hundreds of kilometers. The Mothership itself is something like four to six kilometers on its longest side, for goodness' sake. So this might actually be an aversion - visual range is just a freaking long distance.
** Not even close, hundreds of kilometers is
-- but in space, without air friction, gravity or solid obstacles, that's still nothing in space.much.



* In ''VideoGame/EveOnline'' the range of ship weapons varies depending on the size and type of the weapon. Small ships usually have a max weapon range of few dozen kilometers for long range weapons and a few kilometers for short range ones. Large battleships can potentially hit targets from several hundred kilometers away (although their close range weapons still require getting very close, especially for such slow and hard to maneuver ships). Large scale space battles tend to consist out of two large groups of ships about 100 kilometers from each other, blowing up the other group by focusing fire to one ship at a time.

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* In ''VideoGame/EveOnline'' the ''VideoGame/EveOnline'': The range of ship weapons varies depending on the size and type of the weapon. Small ships usually have a max weapon range of few dozen kilometers for long range weapons and a few kilometers for short range ones. Large battleships can potentially hit targets from several hundred kilometers away (although their close range weapons still require getting very close, especially for such slow and hard to maneuver ships). Large scale space battles tend to consist out of two large groups of ships about 100 kilometers from each other, blowing up the other group by focusing fire to one ship at a time.
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* Averted in ''Anime/LegendOfGalacticHeroes''. Most battles are fought at ranges so vast, the enemy fleet looks more like a particularly-ordered field of stars. Battles are shown as a series of jump cuts of part of one fleet firing, then to the opposing ships taking the attack and firing back. Notably, despite the light-second ranges, ships in that universe move so fast that if they needed to they could actually close such a huge gap and get right into the enemy's face in short order. On a few rare occasions, that's exactly what happened.

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* Averted in ''Anime/LegendOfGalacticHeroes''.''Literature/LegendOfTheGalacticHeroes''. Most battles are fought at ranges so vast, the enemy fleet looks more like a particularly-ordered field of stars. Battles are shown as a series of jump cuts of part of one fleet firing, then to the opposing ships taking the attack and firing back. Notably, despite the light-second ranges, ships in that universe move so fast that if they needed to they could actually close such a huge gap and get right into the enemy's face in short order. On a few rare occasions, that's exactly what happened.
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Clarification. As the fluff on the Krogan Rebellion battle tactic describes, in orbit is not "clear space."


* DoubleSubverted in ''Franchise/MassEffect''. The fluff describes an aversion, with dreadnoughts acting like self-propelled artillery in space: keeping well back from the engagement and firing at extreme range. However nobody apparently explained that to the VFX artists: every starship battle shown in the series plays the trope straight. The Battle of the Citadel at the climax of the first game has it justified by having to fight within the confines of the Citadel's arms, but the space battles in ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'' all take place in clear space.

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* DoubleSubverted in ''Franchise/MassEffect''. The fluff describes an aversion, with dreadnoughts acting like self-propelled artillery in space: keeping well back from the engagement and firing at extreme range. However nobody apparently explained that to the VFX artists: artists naturally wanted more dramatic visuals: every starship battle shown in the series plays the trope straight. The Battle of the Citadel at the climax of the first game has it justified by having to fight straight, taking place in situations where extreme range would be physically infeasible (such as within the confines arms of the Citadel's arms, but Citadel) or risk damaging a planet with a stray shot (an orbital battle tactic used in the space battles Krogan Rebellions, also described in ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'' all take place in clear space.the fluff).
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[[TropeNamer Named after]] the [[BeamMeupScotty supposed]] famous quote of Col. William Prescott in the [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution Battle of Bunker Hill]]: "Don't fire 'til you see the whites of their eyes!" This was justified at the time because they were using notoriously inaccurate 18th-century muskets and they had almost no ammunition, so every bullet had to count. It is not meant literally, as one can only see the whites of ones eye at about ten feet. The effective range of flintlock musketry was about to 75-100 yards, well beyond ten feet! It actually meant "don't fire until you get further orders." The one time someone meant it literally was during the American Revolution when John Buford told his men to fire when the enemy forces (British cavalry), were less than 10 feet away. Unfortunately, Buford issued the order too late, and the cavalry was able to charge at them without sustaining significant casualties. In reality, the command was routinely given to soldiers in many battles: no army had very accurate guns or unlimited ball and powder -- or arrows, for that matter. The saying is famed, and associated with Bunker Hill, by Americans because it was the first battle of the nascent American nation.

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[[TropeNamer [[TropeNamers Named after]] the [[BeamMeupScotty [[BeamMeUpScotty supposed]] famous quote of Col. William Prescott in the [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution Battle of Bunker Hill]]: "Don't fire 'til you see the whites of their eyes!" This was justified at the time because they were using notoriously inaccurate 18th-century muskets and they had almost no ammunition, so every bullet had to count. It is not meant literally, as one can only see the whites of ones eye at about ten feet. The effective range of flintlock musketry was about to 75-100 yards, well beyond ten feet! It actually meant "don't fire until you get further orders." The one time someone meant it literally was during the American Revolution when John Buford told his men to fire when the enemy forces (British cavalry), were less than 10 feet away. Unfortunately, Buford issued the order too late, and the cavalry was able to charge at them without sustaining significant casualties. In reality, the command was routinely given to soldiers in many battles: no army had very accurate guns or unlimited ball and powder -- or arrows, for that matter. The saying is famed, and associated with Bunker Hill, by Americans because it was the first battle of the nascent American nation.
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** In the ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS03E09Defiant Defiant]]" where the ''Defiant'' engages some Cardassian ships, with the battle being viewed from Deep Space 9 on a map and said to be taking place at distances upwards of 100,000 kilometers. Later in the episode, the ''Defiant'' encounters a pair of Obsidian Order ''Keldon''-class battleships, which are shown live and facing down the ''Defiant'' in TNG's classic starship standoff posture.

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** In the ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS03E09Defiant Defiant]]" where Defiant]]", the stolen USS ''Defiant'' engages some Cardassian ships, with the battle being viewed from Deep Space 9 on a map and said to be taking place at distances upwards of 100,000 kilometers. Later in the episode, the ''Defiant'' encounters a pair of Obsidian Order ''Keldon''-class battleships, which are shown live and facing down the ''Defiant'' in TNG's classic starship standoff posture.

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* ''Franchise/StarTrek'' uses and averts this a lot (particularly the latter in the Original Series). However, in many battles (especially big ones), a lot of fighting is done at extreme close range. As mentioned in the "The Wounded" example above, rendering an accurate battle in a visual medium that is in some way exciting can be difficult.
** One episode of TNG (I don't recall the title) had some of the characters fleeing in a stolen runabout, and the person at sensors stated the pursuing ship was closing in to (something like) 4,000 kilometres. The camera switches to external 3rd person ahead of them, and just before the runabout zooms past a phaser beam lashes out (only missing because it was a warning shot). After the runabout has gone past, it is several seconds before the pursuing starship even appears.

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* ZigZagged in ''Franchise/StarTrek'' uses depending on the series and averts episode.
** ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'' typically used a trick where one ship would fire, and then they would cut to the other ship receiving it. While mainly a result of technical and [[NoBudget budgetary]] limitations, it effectively allowed their scriptwriters to state whatever range they wished without contradicting the visuals--and the TOS writing room tended to have a much better [[SciFiWritersHave/NoSenseOfDistance sense of distance]] than later series'.
** Once special effects technology reached the point where showing two fighting ships on the same screen was actually feasible on a ''Star Trek'' TV budget,
this a lot (particularly the latter in the Original Series). trope came into full effect, with ships engaging at essentially spitting distance. However, in many battles (especially big ones), on occasion you would have an instance where a lot of fighting is done at extreme close range. As mentioned character would call out some wildly ''long'' range, only to have the accompanying special effects depict both ships in the "The Wounded" example above, rendering an accurate battle in a visual medium that is in some way exciting can be difficult.
same frame.
** One episode of TNG (I don't recall the title) ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' had some of the characters fleeing in a stolen runabout, and the person at sensors stated the pursuing ship was closing in to (something like) 4,000 kilometres. The camera switches to external 3rd person ahead of them, and just before the runabout zooms past a phaser beam lashes out (only missing because it was a warning shot). After the runabout has gone past, it is several seconds before the pursuing starship even appears.appears.
** In the ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS03E09Defiant Defiant]]" where the ''Defiant'' engages some Cardassian ships, with the battle being viewed from Deep Space 9 on a map and said to be taking place at distances upwards of 100,000 kilometers. Later in the episode, the ''Defiant'' encounters a pair of Obsidian Order ''Keldon''-class battleships, which are shown live and facing down the ''Defiant'' in TNG's classic starship standoff posture.



* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', even the biggest artillery units have a maximum range which is, to scale, ''several hundred meters''. Later books addressed this by giving artillery units ranges fully capable of targeting another table in the next room. By contrast, in ''Battlefleet Gothic'', a space combat game set in the same universe, the main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).

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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', even the biggest artillery units have a maximum range which is, to scale, ''several hundred meters''. Later books addressed this by giving artillery units ranges fully capable of targeting another table in the next room. By contrast, in ''Battlefleet Gothic'', ''TabletopGame/BattlefleetGothic'', a space combat game set in the same universe, the main batteries of larger ships have ranges of several Earth diameters (although depictions in [[FlavorText the text]] have them fighting at much smaller ranges).



* ''Command and Conquer 3'' includes walking artillery units for the GDI that can fire the length of the map. However, for game balance purposes, they can only do this when a sniper is close enough to paint the target with a laser designator.

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* ''Command and Conquer 3'' ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquer3TiberiumWars'' includes walking artillery units for the GDI that can fire the length of the map. However, for game balance purposes, they can only do this when a sniper is close enough to paint the target with a laser designator.



* ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' has a blanket maximum range of 10km for all space weapons, possibly due to technical limitations.

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* ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' has a blanket maximum range of 10km 10 km for all space weapons, possibly due to technical limitations.limitations. You also can't even target an enemy ship from more than about 21 km.



** The tactics of the Reapers in ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'' may make this a JustifiedTrope. The Reapers used their beam weapons, but they also liked to get up close and personal to crush opposing ships with their metallic tentacles. Besides that, in the case of both the Reapers and the geth, the major battles took place in orbit; firing from a distance would increase the chances of missing the intended target and hitting the planet behind them (A krogan fleet commander used the same tactic in the Krogan Rebellions, positioning himself between his opponents and the planet they were trying to take back). Since those mass effect accelerators can dispense more destructive power than the Hiroshima bomb, one stray shot could wipe out a whole city.
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Ambiguity Index wick cleaning.


* ''Franchise/StarWars'', where it seems impossible to target a Star Destroyer with a superstructure one ''mile'' long unless you are able to see it out the window. Missiles are restricted to fighter-sized starships, are deployed only at visual range, and tend to operate in a CoolButInefficient manner. Advanced missile weapons (such as proton torpedoes) have insufficient targeting accuracy to hit anything more agile than a freighter ([[TheForce unaided]]). In addition to this technical data mention ship weaponry as having a range of ''a few dozens of kilometers''.

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* ''Franchise/StarWars'', where it seems impossible to target a Star Destroyer with a superstructure one ''mile'' long unless you are able to see it out the window. Missiles are restricted to fighter-sized starships, are deployed only at visual range, and tend to operate in a CoolButInefficient manner. Advanced missile weapons (such as proton torpedoes) have insufficient targeting accuracy to hit anything more agile than a freighter ([[TheForce unaided]]).(unaided). In addition to this technical data mention ship weaponry as having a range of ''a few dozens of kilometers''.

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