History Main / GunsAreWorthless

* In general, this has not been the case since firearms were created in their recognizable form (used by a single man with a trigger). The matchlock arquebus was finnicky, could only fire 1-2 shots per minute, and required a highly trained and well-paid soldier to use and maintain. This as opposed to a good archer who could lose 6 arrows per minute, or a crossbow that could manage 1-3 (depending on type), for cheaper wages, all without the risk of blowing themselves up. The main reason these early guns were used regardless is simple: compared to muscle-powered weapons, guns are ''[[https://i.imgur.com/YLVOIfd.jpg incredibly powerful.]]'' Where a longbow arrow might hit 80 joules of kinetic energy and a crossbow bolt 100-200 joules, even an early arquebus packed about 1,600 joules (that is, twenty times the longbow and ten times the crossbow). Not only did this enable even 15th century matchlocks to [[ArmorIsUseless blast right through]] armor that could reliably stop arrows except at extremely close range (like padded jacks, mail, and munitions plate), but they inflicted horrific wounds; contemporary accounts are clear that arrows wound while guns kill. [[https://bowvsmusket.com/2017/05/29/musketeers-were-not-easier-to-train-than-archers/ Proponents of the bow]] argued that it was still worth using alongside guns because it was easier to find archers than gunmen, but they eventually lost the argument and bows were phased out by every country that could produce sufficient firearms (melee weapons, though, stayed in use as long as matchlocks couldn't be universally replaced by flintlocks or caplocks with socket bayonets). The disparity grew even starker as manufacturing, metallurgy, and powder quality all improved; the iconic "Brown Bess" for example could fire 3-5 shots per minute at 3,000-4,000 joules per shot.

* The [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar American Civil War]]-era general John Sedgewick claimed that rifled muskets “couldn't hit an elephant at this distance,” [[DeathByIrony seconds before he took a shot to the head]].

** Bayonet charges are still used by some armies to great effect. It turns out that sending in a horde of mad Scotsmen wielding spears is [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet#20th_and_21st_Century_bayonet_charges still an effective tactic]].

* The inaccuracy of a smoothbore musket was more because the musket ball was ''smaller'' than the barrel so it could be loaded without having to resort to a hammer. It was also a sphere, so it would not properly sit on the powder and would bounce down the barrel and would be going in the same relative direction it was as its last bounce. Once the conical bullet was developed with a lead skirt to catch rifling upon expansion in the 19th Century, accuracy from the bullet was less of a problem.
** On top of this, muskets could be fired with well fitting balls. But when shot in succession under battlefield conditions, soot from the black powder would build up in the barrel, preventing new balls from being dropped in the barrel, or jamming or even exploding the gun upon it being fired. The generals of the time chose to value the ability to reload over a single accurate shot.
** Exactly. The accuracy of a smoothbore musket is highly dependent on how it gets loaded. Most "Regiments of the Line" valued high rate of fire, and as such, called for drill that valued reload speed over accuracy. They would use musket balls much smaller than the bore of the musket, slam the ball down onto the powder, and didn't use any patching in between the ball and the bore. This would lead to the musketball having awful accuracy, "bouncing" off in a random direction when fired. When loaded with a tight-fitting ball, gently pushed onto the powder, with a tight-fitting patch, smoothbore muskets can be highly (for the standards of a smoothbore firearm, that is.) accurate out to 100 meters, depending on the standard of the shooter. However, it could take upwards of a minute to load a musket in this fashion, not very conductive to battlefield use.
** Furthermore, it wasn't aimed fire by any reasonable modern standard outside of the first shot fired by each line, which was often more carefully loaded. The first round of fire from each line was often the most lethal for this reason. There would a marked decrease in lethality due to having to load quickly, and then firing. Add in the smoke which rapidly begins to fill the battlefield which rapidly kills visibility, and the accuracy goes to hell quickly. The side that got the first round of shots off often had an early advantage so long as they didn't fire too early.

In games, especially in settings where firearms would be {{Game Breaker}}s but the [[RuleOfCool "neato" factor is too great to ignore]], this trope is often reflected in a reduction of firearm effectiveness and power compared to "standard" melee weapons, sometimes to the point where [[PistolWhipping bludgeoning an enemy with a gun]] will do significantly more damage than actually shooting them with it. For context, even a [[https://i.imgur.com/Ir9CxA9.jpg 16th century musket]] had some thirty times the kinetic energy of a longbow arrow or sword stroke, a massive disparity in firepower that [[AcceptableBreaksFromReality is almost never represented in fiction.]] Again, ammunition also tends to be used as a limiting factor; a matchlock musket takes 30 to 60 seconds to reload, and a flintlock 15 to 20 seconds, while a sword or polearm never needs to be reloaded (at worst, they need the occasional sharpening). Or, the designers can make a preference for melee weapons a matter of practicality, as in "hack and slash" games, where being able to [[HerdHittingAttack attack many foes around you in one quick motion]] would often be better than being able to only fire at a single enemy in front. It doesn't help that many games fail to model the possibility of overpenetration and OneHitPolykill on the guns' end.

** Bayonet charges are still used by some armies to great effect. It turns out that sending in a horde of mad Scotsmen wielding [[BladeOnAStick blades on sticks]] is [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet#20th_and_21st_Century_bayonet_charges still an effective tactic]].

* ''Fanfic/TheNightUnfurls'': Averted. In ''VideoGame/BloodBorne'', guns are practically peashooters. In this fanfic, they [[OneHitKill hit like a friggin truck]]. The only downside of these guns is that they have to be reloaded every time a bullet is fired (because they are different from modern ones in RealLife). Since the gun users often fight in close-quarters combat, they have to rely on their melee weapons just as much.

* Considering that nearly every character's weapon in ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'' is [[MixAndMatchWeapon also a gun]], the series zigzags this trope to Hell and back. For the most part, the gun part of everyone's weapons typically does little damage to whatever enemy they're going up against. [[TheQuietOne Lie Ren]] for example plays this completely straight, as his [[GunsAkimbo sub-machine gun blades]] never do anything other than annoy his opponent. A notable aversion comes in the form of [[TheFashionista Coco Adel]], whose [[GatlingGood minigun]]/purse is lethal enough to make mulch out of an army of enormous Grimm who were previously shown to be MadeOfIron... Before it too is played straight when point blank at a Grimm's flank.

*** Modern and futuristic firearms are much more effective. They do much more damage, can be used with extra attacks without the need of the Gunner feat (making all other ranged weapons obsolete) and some get an AoE attack (spraying an area with bullets that requires a Dexterity save instead of high armor class). There are no listed prices for these firearms or their ammunition as it is expected that the players will not have easy access to such powerful weapons.

*** The third game is where they got changed up, now running off of HIT and SPD. Many of their skills were now [=AoE=], making grinding much less of a chore. The fourth game gave them an exclusive evility that expanded their range, giving them attack range like a bow. (Said evility is in the fifth game as well.)

* In ''VideoGame/MadMax'', Max's sawed-off shotgun is his most effective weapon by far. The problem is that it's TooAwesomeToUse because it's nearly impossible to find any shells for it, the ammunition manufacturing industry having collapsed with the rest of Australia AfterTheEnd.

* Subverted with in ''VideoGame/MegaManBattleNetwork''. Swords do deal much more damage to enemies compared to guns. The first sword chips you get essentially allows you to OneHitKill most enemies you encounter up to around the midgame. However, the grid system the series' combat operates on balances this out, since sword chips have a range of one square ahead of you, while guns effectively have unlimited range, so sword chips vs. gun chips are a question of whether you're willing to learn an enemy's pattern and wait for them to get to the front row or hammer away at them at your leisure.

** In ''VideoGame/Persona3'' guns that appear in cutscenes are treated realistically and even [[PlotlineDeath kill party members]] with one or two shots. Aegis and Takaya both use guns in combat, however, where they are rather pathetic (all things considered) standard attacks that deal about as much damage as the assorted swords, bows, and boxing gloves the rest of the party use and have no improved range to speak of. Heck, one boss character (Jin) throws ''grenades'' at people that hardly do any damage. Aside from that, the main characters use gun-shaped Evokers to call their Persona out in a way all-too-reminiscent of suicide, so while it is debatable whether they count as guns or not, they are still vital for your success.

* ''Manga/InuYasha'':

** Lampshaded in ''WebVideo/EvangelionAbridged''.
---> '''Asuka''': "Why am I armed with a spear?"\\
'''Shinji''': "Believe me. ''Any'' pointy object is more effective than a gun. Especially a Gatling gun."

* Elie, the main female in ''Manga/RaveMaster'', wields two guns with exploding ammo. They win her all of one fight and are only of notable aid once. They hammer this home by having the BigBad catch one of her bullets in his teeth when fired from too short a range to dodge.
* {{Justified}} in the anime adaptation of ''Manga/SaintSeiya'': while guns ''can'' harm the weaker Cosmo users and even some that aren't weaker (indeed at one point a soldier from the Sanctuary, who knows exactly what a Saint can do, tries to shoot Seiya from behind with an assault rifle) as long as they don't hit their armor, most Cosmo users are way too fast to be hit (in the incident above Seiya easily dodged the burst and punched his attacker out), and Saints, Mariners, God Warriors and Specters hit way harder anyway.

[[folder:Fanfiction]]
* ''Fanfic/BringMeToLife'' played with this. During the fight at the Hyperion, Wes' guns proved to be as inefficient as arrows, swords and axes due to the demons' invulnerable organic skin. However, once Wes spots a chink in his armor caused by Angel when the vampire captured Skip, his gun was absolutely lethal.
* ''FanFic/HalfLifeFullLifeConsequences'': "I have to kill fast and bullets too slow!"

* Zig-zagged in ''[[http://www.tthfanfic.org/Story-8064-5/Anubis+Zeppo+Halo.htm Zeppo: Halo.]]'' According to [[Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer Faith's]] Watcher, guns are mostly useless against vampires (unless using specialty rounds) but are considered the best weapon for killing demons.
* {{Averted}} '''hard''' in ''Fanfic/TheNightUnfurls''. Remember how in VideoGame/BloodBorne, guns are practically peashooters? In this fanfic, they '''[[OneHitKill hit like a friggin truck]]'''. The only downside of these guns is that they have to be reloaded every time a bullet is fired (because they are different from modern ones in RealLife). Since the gun users often fight in close-quarters combat, they have to rely on their melee weapons just as much.
* {{Averted}} in ''FanFic/NoChanceForFate'', which is surprising, considering it's a ''Anime/SailorMoon'' and ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'' crossover. Guns are exactly as deadly to all human life as you would expect it to be. As for non-human life, it does take a bigger cabiler to make them just as deadly.

* Averted in ''LightNovel/{{Slayers}}'' fanfiction ''Fanfic/SlayersTrilogy''. Mirror Lina's rifle has enough power behind it to punch through the shield component of Lina's Raywing spell. This is in spite of the gun in question being roughly equivalent to a blunderbuss.
* ''FanFic/ShinjiAndWarhammer40K'': Annihilated by Kensuke's unspeakably righteous badassery during the Matariel attack, and then played straight later on when most heavy bolters aren't powerful enough to hurt some of the creatures from Earth's Cradle.
* In ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'' alternate future fic ''Fanfic/SupermanOf2499TheGreatConfrontation'', Adam Kent wears a full-body black disguise to make deals with Metropolis' crime families, but he gives away he is a metahuman when he lets their goons fire at him and their weapons fail to hurt him.

* In ''ComicBook/PowerGirl'' story ''Fanfic/AForceOfFour'', the four alien criminals are completely impervious to gunfire.
* ''FanFic/BlazinGears'' has Mr. Black tell Noel that guns have become a lot less useful with Ars Magus barriers around.
* Averted in ''Fanfic/ADeadWorld''. While Alex might not need them, Cain and Arcade do, and so does everyone else. Arcade even has a plasma pistol and is a good shot with it.

** The difference lay between smoothbore muskets and rifled muskets (early rifles). Rifles are so-named for having rifled barrels - that is to say, there is a texture inside the barrel which introduces a spin onto the bullet as it is fired. The net result is a stabilized bullet which flies a lot straighter. High-quality rifles of the time were quite accurate weapons in the hands of skilled marksmen, while smoothbore muskets were not. Rifles had only seen limited use before the 19th century because it was a pain to shove a sphere down a grooved barrel, limiting their firing rates to 1 shot per minute; this was changed by the introduction of the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini%C3%A9_ball Minie ball]], which allowed rifles to reload as fast as smoothbores with no loss in lethality. Experiments at the time found that the smoothbore muskets used by soldiers would only strike a target at typical combat ranges roughly 40% of the time. It is commonly claimed that the Civil War was fought using outdated tactics with more advanced weaponry, but the reality is that due to the nature of command and communications at the time, fighting in large line formations was often the only practical way to conduct an organized battle. In situations where other tactics were available for use, fighting changed considerably; some of the later battles in the Civil War featured early TrenchWarfare. Additionally, over the course of the Civil War, increasingly sophisticated weapons became more and more affordable. The reason that muskets were used was not because they couldn't build anything better - repeating rifles were invented prior to the American Civil War, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalthoff_repeater more than 200 years prior]] - but because such weapons were too expensive (and broke too easily) to supply all their soldiers with one.

* Utterly averted in ''VideoGame/LiveALive''. [[TheExpyWithNoName The Sundown Kid]], the party member from the Old West, uses a gun (specifically, a Colt Peacemaker to start with; his InfinityPlusOneSword is a .44 Magnum). His attacks have no charge time, except for his strongest attack, have extremely good range, and deal high damage. His strongest attack, while it has a charge time and limited range, makes up for this with ''999 damage every time''. The boss of his chapter could also deal 999 damage with his strongest attack, and he used a {{Gatling g|ood}}un. Guns aren't just worthwhile, they're ''dangerous''.

** Most titles also feature an enemy type or two whose defenses favour melee attacks, such as the Bloodgoyles in ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry3DantesAwakening'' who are intangible and immune to attack until you use Ebony and Ivory to fill them with lead.

** In ''[[VideoGame/CastlevaniaChroniclesOfSorrow Aria of Sorrow]]'' a high tech rifle was the BraggingRightsReward.

** In ''[[VideoGame/CastlevaniaChroniclesOfSorrow Dawn of Sorrow]]'' guns are fine weapons (and actually gain quite a rate of fire with a LagCancel), but there are only 2 in the game (outside of the [[BraggingRightsReward rocket launcher]]) and they quickly get outclassed by the (still progressing) melee and throwing weapons.

*** Modern and futuristic firearms are much more effective. They do much more damage and can be used with extra attacks without the need of the Gunner feat, making all other ranged weapons obsolete. There are no listed prices for these firearms or their ammunition as it is expected that the players will not have easy access to such powerful weapons.
*** Artificer class can cast spells via the weapon (which can be a gun), enchant weapons (including giving them BottomlessMagazines) and the Artillerist can summon magical cannons.

* In ''Film/{{Yojimbo}}'', the unnamed hero defends himself from a gun using his sword.

** Guns generally do less damage than swords and lances and always do less damage than greatswords. They also do pitiful damage at range (sometimes just 1 or 0 damage), so it counterbalances their advantage there. They are also the only primary weapon type without a corresponding Royal Arm.

** Surprisingly [[ZigZaggingTrope both played straight and averted]] by the game's resident ThatOneBoss - he'll tear you apart with his [[GunsAkimbo pistols]], but it would take forever to try and drop him with your own gun; you need to block his bullets to survive long enough to get into [[AnAxeToGrind melee range]].

** There are some characters that manage to make more or less regular bullet-firing guns work as very effective weapons, for instance Van Auger and several members of the Red-Hair Pirates. So it's not that guns specifically are poor weapons, just that personal strength is more important than weapon strength and guns aren't an especially common WeaponOfChoice.

* {{Averted}} '''hard''' in ''Fanfic/TheNightUnfurls''. Remember how in VideoGame/BloodBorne, guns are comparable to peashooters? In this fanfic, they '''[[OneHitKill hit like a]] [[GoshDangItToHeck friggin]] [[BoomHeadshot truck]]'''. The only downside of these guns is that they have to be reloaded every time a bullet is fired (because they are different from modern ones in RealLife). Since the gun users often fight in close-quarters combat, they have to rely on their melee weapons just as much.