History Main / GreyAndGrayInsanity

->''the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good and bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron."''

These characters are most likely (but not always) going to be a StrawNihilist, a MisanthropeSupreme or at least someone who may be StupidNeutral. They would try to apply their worldview through copious amounts of InsaneTrollLogic, with them doing anything to prove that ''everyone'' is no different in morality than one another. When it comes to them dealing with heroes and villains, they would try to ensure that both sides would eventually become indifferent to one another, from encouraging morally questionable actions to the heroic side, to convincing the villainous side that they too have sympathetic qualities to their faction. Or sometimes becoming apathetic to both sides.

This usually applies in non-GreyAndGrayMorality scenarios (the most common being BlackAndWhiteMorality.), through in some cases, it can apply if said character's beliefs make them part of the shades of conflict (through sometimes, said worldview would have them go further down the scale).

Subtrope of HumanNatureFallacy. A direct [[InvertedTrope inversion]] of BlackAndWhiteInsanity. See also NotSoSimilar.

* ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'': This is the crux of [[BigBad Equinox's]] character, the Lords of Order and Chaos chose him as a child to act as their avatar, ensuring a balance between the two forces. Unfortunately the strain of the responsibilities drove Equinox insane and he became obsessed with applying his own mad view of balance on the world, which he applies utterly illogically and arbitrarily with no regard to context. He's introduced trying to execute a villain as his plans to rule the world would have disrupted the balance, whilst also executing the hero who tried to stop him. Then later trying to ensure another villain succeeds in causing a nuclear meltdown in a Russian city, because the villain's own village was destroyed many years earlier. He finally overthrows his former masters and tries to end the universe, so he can create a new one at perfect balance. He's finally defeated when Batman forces him to admit he is not at perfect balance himself, causing his ideology to come crashing down upon him.

On one hand, [[BlackAndWhiteInsanity having an absolute view of the world being Black and White]] is seen as an unhealthy trait in characters. [[InvertedTrope On the other hand]], characters believing in the idea of GreyAndGreyMorality and people being similar, then cranking it up to the illogical extreme of "Everyone is just the same.", even in the context of situations where one side is ''[[ObviouslyEvil unambiguously]]'' [[ObviouslyEvil in the wrong end of the moral spectrum.]]

This usually applies in non-GreyAndGrayMorality scenarios (the most common being BlackAndWhiteMorality), through in some cases, it can apply if said character's beliefs make them part of the shades of conflict (through sometimes, said worldview would have them go further down the scale).

-->--'''WebOriginal/{{dril}}'''

On one hand, [[BlackAndWhiteInsanity having an absolute view of the world being Black and White]] is seen as an unhealthy trait in characters. [[InvertedTrope On the other hand]], characters believing in the idea of GreyAndGreyMorality and people being simila, then cranking it up to the illogical extreme of "Everyone is just the same.", even in the context of situations where one side is ''[[ObviouslyEvil unambiguously]]'' [[ObviouslyEvil in the wrong end of the moral spectrum.]]

On one hand, [[BlackAndWhiteInsanity having an absolute view of the world being Black and White]] is seen as an unhealthy trait in characters. [[InvertedTrope On the other hand]], characters believing in the idea of GreyAndGreyMorality and people being NotSoDifferent, then cranking it up to the illogical extreme of "Everyone is just the same.", even in the context of situations where one side is ''[[ObviouslyEvil unambiguously]]'' [[ObviouslyEvil in the wrong end of the moral spectrum.]]

These characters are most likely (but not always) going to be a StrawNihilist, a MisanthropeSupreme or at least someone who may be StupidNeutral. They would try to apply their worldview through copious amounts of InsaneTrollLogic, with them doing anything to prove that ''everyone'' is [[NotSoDifferent no different in morality than one another]]. When it comes to them dealing with heroes and villains, they would try to ensure that both sides would eventually become indifferent to one another, from encouraging morally questionable actions to the heroic side, to convincing the villainous side that they too have sympathetic qualities to their faction. Or sometimes becoming apathetic to both sides.

->''the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good and bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron.''

* In ''LightNovel/CookingWithWildGame'', the Suun clan try to derail their own trial by bringing up everyone else's misdemeanours. This is not accusing the judges of corruption- none of the misdemeanours mentioned have any bearing on the trial. This is the criminals saying that they refuse to accept a ruling from ''anyone'' even slightly flawed; in short, any human alive. The judges are not impressed, and the trial continues.

-->'''Teacher:'''Your simple arguments have all been made before. The world's not black and white, the choice not "either-or"
-->'''Light:'''Perhaps it's time we drain the color from it then, till we're back to seeing black and white
And wrong and right again.

-->Teacher:''Your simple arguments have all been made before,\\
The world's not black and white, the choice not "either-or"\\''
-->Light:''Perhaps it's time we drain the color from it then,\\
Till we're back to seeing black and white
And wrong and right again.\\''

->Teacher:''Your simple arguments have all been made before,\\
The world's not black and white, the choice not "either-or"\\
->Light:''Perhaps it's time we drain the color from it then,\\

And wrong and right again.\\

* WebVideo/{{Jreg}} portrays advocates of [[TheHorseshoeEffect the Horseshoe Theory]] this way; [[StrawCharacter Horseshoe Centrist's]] primary catchphrase is "The way I see it, there is no difference between [x] and [not x/x's antithesis]." Naturally, this extends beyond political ideologies and goes to very absurd territories, such as believing there's no difference between having civil rights and not having them, between reaching a destination and not reaching it, etc.

Compare VillainHasAPoint and JerkassHasAPoint. Contrast RousseauWasRight (everyone truly is good), HumansAreBastards (everyone truly is bad) and GreyAndGreyMorality, GoodVersusGood, EvilVsEvil (for settings where the world actually operates in a way that makes these kind of world-views completely rational), and GoldenMeanFallacy (the belief that the "correct" way is always between two extremes). Contrast AboveGoodAndEvil (my goal is more important than good and evil).

Sometimes, this can be the case of [[EvilVsEvil Black and Black Insanity]] (often seen by the StrawNihilist) or [[GoodVersusGood White and White Insanity]] (often seen by the WideEyedIdealist), which although their viewpoints on morality differ, still exemplifies that they do not recognize differing morality.

Sometimes, this can be the case of [[EvilVsEvil Black and Black Insanity]] (often seen by the StrawNihilist) or [[GoodVsGood White and White Insanity]] (often seen by the WideEyedIdealist), which although their viewpoints on morality differ, still exemplifies that they do not recognize differing morality.

Compare VillainHasAPoint and JerkassHasAPoint. Contrast RousseauWasRight (everyone truly is good), HumansAreBastards (everyone truly is bad) and GreyAndGreyMorality, GoodVsGood, EvilVsEvil (for settings where the world actually operates in a way that makes these kind of world-views completely rational), and GoldenMeanFallacy (the belief that the "correct" way is always between two extremes). Contrast AboveGoodAndEvil (my goal is more important than good and evil).

Compare VillainHasAPoint and JerkassHasAPoint. Contrast RousseauWasRight (everyone truly is good), HumansAreBastards (everyone truly is bad) and GreyAndGreyMorality, GoodVsGood and EvilVsEvil (for settings where the world actually operates in a way that makes these kind of world-views completely rational). Contrast AboveGoodAndEvil (my goal is more important than good and evil).

* ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'': This is the crux of [[BigBad Equinox's]] character, the Lords of Order and Chaos chose him as a child to act as their avatar, ensuring a balance between the two forces. Unfortunately the strain of the responsibilities drove Equinox insane and he became obsessed with applying his own mad view of balance on the world, which he applies utterly illogically and arbitrarily with no regard to context. He's introduced trying to execute a villain as his plans to rule the world would have disrupted the balance, whilst also executing the hero who tried to stop him. Then later trying to ensure another villain succeeds in causing a nuclear meltdown in a Russian city, cause the villain's own village was destroyed many years earlier. He finally overthrows his former masters and tries to end the universe, so he can create a new one at perfect balance. He's finally defeated when Batman forces him to admit he is not at perfect balance himself, causing his ideology to come crashing down upon him.

* CultureJustifiesAnything-- when characters use moral subjectivity to dismiss their (and nobody else's) guilt,
* FreudianExcuse-- when villains claim their past means they have no autonomy,
* AllCrimesAreEqual-- when characters regard all acts of crime and flaws to be the same in severity,
* WhatIsEvil-- when characters don't understand the concept of good and evil and
* ThenLetMeBeEvil-- when they claim doing one bad thing means they might as well do others in the future.

* This trope is the motive behind many 'coerce the hero into breaking their moral code' plots. However dissimilar, say, failing to save someone is to actual cold-blooded murder, the villain wants to feel that the hero is [[AllCrimesAreEqual imperfect, and thereby justify his own significantly deeper imperfections]].
->'''[[Film/TheDarkKnight Batman:]]''' What were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you?! You're alone!

[[folder:Webcomics]]
* In ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'', necromancer Tsukiko insists on seeing resurrected corpses as humans- a mistake that ultimately leads to her death, when the zombie drones she raised killed her at the command of their new master.

* ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'': This is the crux of [[BigBad Equinox's]] character, the Lords of Order and Chaos chose him as a child to act as their avatar, ensuring a balance between the two forces. Unfortunately the strain of the responsibilities drove Equinox insane and he became obsessed with applying his own mad view of balance on the world, which he applies utterly illogically and arbitrarily with no regard to context. He's introduced trying to execute a villain as his plans to rule the world would have disrupted the balance, whilst also executing the hero who tried to stop him. Then later trying to ensure another villain succeeds in causing a nuclear meltdown in a Russian city, cause the villains own village was destroyed many years earlier. He finally overthrows his former masters and tries to end the universe, so he can create a new one at perfect balance. He's finally defeated when Batman forces him to admit he is not at perfect balance himself, causing his ideology to come crashing down upon him.

On one hand, [[BlackAndWhiteInsanity having an absolute view of the world being Black and White]] is seen as an unhealthy trait in characters. [[InvertedTrope On the other hand]], characters believing in the idea of GreyAndGreyMorality and people being NotSoDifferent, then cranking it up to the illogical extreme of "Everyone is just as bad as everyone else.", even in the context of situations where one side is ''[[ObviouslyEvil unambiguously]]'' [[ObviouslyEvil in the wrong end of the moral spectrum.]]

A direct [[InvertedTrope inversion]] of BlackAndWhiteInsanity. See also NotSoSimilar. Related tropes include CultureJustifiesAnything-- when characters use moral subjectivity to dismiss their (and nobody else's) guilt, FreudianExcuse-- when villains claim their past means they have no autonomy, AllCrimesAreEqual-- when characters regard all acts of crime and flaws to be the same in severity, WhatIsEvil-- when characters don't understand the concept of good and evil and certain variants of ThenLetMeBeEvil-- when they claim doing one bad thing means they might as well do others in the future.

Compare VillainHasAPoint and JerkassHasAPoint. Contrast RousseauWasRight (everyone truly is good) , HumansAreBastards (everyone truly is bad) and GreyAndGreyMorality, GoodVsGood and EvilVsEvil (for settings where the world actually operates in a way that makes these kind of world-views completely rational). Contrast AboveGoodAndEvil (my goal is more important than good and evil).

* In ''VideoGame/{{KGB}}'', which is set during [[UsefulNotes/HistoryOfTheUSSR Communist Russia]], '''every''' character- including the protagonist- engages in some degree of shady behaviour. Usually to avoid being shot/tortured/[[TheGulag imprisoned]]. But to survive the finale, you must refuse to do an obvious atrocity ([[spoiler:murdering a comatose victim of brainwashing]]) and ''stick to'' that refusal, even as the BigBad lectures you about "duty". (Obeying him just gets you permanently silenced.)

A direct [[InvertedTrope inversion]] of BlackAndWhiteInsanity. See also NotSoSimilar. Related tropes include FreudianExcuse- when characters use moral subjectivity to dismiss their (and nobody else's) guilt, CultureJustifiesAnything- when villains claim their past means they have no autonomy, AllCrimesAreEqual, when characters regard all acts of crime and flaws to be the same in severity, WhatIsEvil, when characters don't understand the concept of good and evil and certain variants of ThenLetMeBeEvil- when they claim doing one bad thing means they might as well do others in the future.

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'''Indexes:'''
* ShadesOfConflict
* TheseTropesAreEqual
* RomanticismVersusEnlightenment: Enlightment section.
* Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease: Morality Tropes.
* CynicismTropes
* IdealismTropes
* CharacterFlawIndex
* ScrewThisIndexIHaveTropes
* PsychologyTropes
* NeutralityIndex
* SociologyTropes