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->''Si cum Iesuitis itis, non cum Iesu itis.''[[labelnote:Translation]]If you walk with the Jesuits, you don't walk with Jesus.[[/labelnote]]
-->--'''Unknown'''

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->''Si cum Iesuitis itis, non cum Iesu itis.''[[labelnote:Translation]]If you walk with the Jesuits, you don't do not walk with Jesus.[[/labelnote]]
-->--'''Unknown'''
-->--A saying almost as old as the order itself
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->''Si cum Iesuitis itis, non cum Iesu itis''[[labelnote:Translation]]If you walk with the Jesuits, you don't walk with Jesus.[[/labelnote]]

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->''Si cum Iesuitis itis, non cum Iesu itis''[[labelnote:Translation]]If itis.''[[labelnote:Translation]]If you walk with the Jesuits, you don't walk with Jesus.[[/labelnote]]



The historical basis for the Society's negative archetype comes largely from their work during [[UsefulNotes/TheProtestantReformation the Counter-Reformation]]. For [[TheMiddleAges many centuries]], the Roman Catholic Church relied extensively on secular authorities (especially the Holy Roman Emperor and, later, the King of France) to combat heresy by providing a civil basis for investigating unorthodox beliefs and/or practices and, if need be, administering appropriate civil action against the offending party. However, during the height of the Protestant Reformation, various governments in northwestern Europe declared themselves independent of the Church's spiritual authority as a precedent for their secular sovereignty, establishing either Lutheranism or Calvinism, the two Protestant sects deemed legal options as of the Peace of Augsburg in 1555, as the de facto, if not de jure, state religion. As a result, the Church was often without (legal) recourse to counter what they saw as the epidemic heresy of Protestantism in these regions, where Catholic and Protestant populations were often engaged in sectarian violence.

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The historical basis for the Society's negative archetype comes largely from their work during [[UsefulNotes/TheProtestantReformation the Counter-Reformation]]. For [[TheMiddleAges many centuries]], the Roman Catholic Church relied extensively on secular authorities (especially the Holy Roman Emperor and, later, the King of France) to combat heresy by providing a civil basis for investigating unorthodox beliefs and/or practices and, if need be, administering appropriate civil action against the offending party. However, during the height of the Protestant Reformation, various governments in northwestern Europe declared themselves independent of the Church's spiritual authority as a precedent for their secular sovereignty, establishing either Lutheranism or Calvinism, the two Protestant sects deemed legal options as of the Peace of Augsburg in 1555, as the de facto, ''de facto'', if not de jure, ''de jure'', state religion. As a result, the Church was often without (legal) recourse to counter what they saw as the epidemic heresy of Protestantism in these regions, where Catholic and Protestant populations were often engaged in sectarian violence.
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-->--'''Unknown'''
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** Barring some generational gaps, the Ateneo de Manila since the 1960s has also been seen as a springboard for liberal (sometimes even left-leaning) politics--further supported by a) the University's espousal of Catholic social teaching (if not full-on liberation theology); and b) its proximity and institutional cooperation with the secular and activist University of the Philippines-Diliman. The Ateneo de Manila (and by extension, the Philippine Jesuits) therefore have the curious reputation of being seen as liberal and more progressive compared to the rest of the Philippine Catholic hierarchy (especially in comparison to the Dominican-run University of Santo Tomas, and the conservative private schools run by Opus Dei).

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** Barring some generational gaps, the Ateneo de Manila University since the 1960s has also been seen as a springboard for liberal (sometimes even left-leaning) politics--further supported by a) the University's espousal of Catholic social teaching (if not full-on liberation theology); and b) its proximity and institutional cooperation with the secular and activist University of the Philippines-Diliman. The Ateneo de Manila (and by extension, the Philippine Jesuits) therefore have the curious reputation of being seen as liberal and more progressive compared to the rest of the Philippine Catholic hierarchy (especially in comparison to the Dominican-run University of Santo Tomas, and the conservative private schools run by Opus Dei).
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* In Flann O'Brien's (author of ''Literature/TheThirdPoliceman'') later novel ''The Hard Life'', the protagonist's guardian Mr. Collopy is friends with a Jesuit priest, [[MeaningfulName Father Kurt Fahrt]]. When Fahrt refuses to countenance Collopy's plan to blow up Dublin City Hall (in a planning dispute over ladies' public toilets), Collopy reminds Fahrt of the Jesuits' own role in the [[GuyFawkes Gunpowder Plot of 1605]]. He also seems to think the Jesuits were responsible for the Franco-Prussian War.

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* In Flann O'Brien's (author of ''Literature/TheThirdPoliceman'') later novel ''The Hard Life'', the protagonist's guardian Mr. Collopy is friends with a Jesuit priest, [[MeaningfulName Father Kurt Fahrt]]. When Fahrt refuses to countenance Collopy's plan to blow up Dublin City Hall (in a planning dispute over ladies' public toilets), Collopy reminds Fahrt of the Jesuits' own role in the [[GuyFawkes [[UsefulNotes/GuyFawkes Gunpowder Plot of 1605]]. He also seems to think the Jesuits were responsible for the Franco-Prussian War.

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[[folder:Live Action TV]]
* ''[[Series/Shogun2024 Shogun]]'' depicts corrupt Jesuit priests scheming to colonize Japan for both Portugal and Catholic Church, and also growing rich by monopolizing trade with the remote island nation.
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* Shakespeare appears to take a veiled shot at Jesuits in ''Theatre/{{Macbeth}}'', when after Duncan's murder there's a knock at the door answered by a porter, who plays up as though he's the Keeper of the gate to Hell, and mentions an "equivocator" who committed treason and could not equivocate his way to Heaven, and now is knocking on the gate of Hell. This is a reference to the real life Jesuit practice of "Mental Reservation", which is more commonly called equivocation, and the talk of treason is almost certainly a slam on one particular priest, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Garnet Henry Garnet]], who was convicted of and executed for treason around the same time Shakespeare was writing ''Macbeth'', and had written in defense of equivocation. See the note for more details. [[note]]Garnet had knowledge of [[UsefulNotes/GuyFawkes the Gunpowder Plot]] before it happened, but since that information was revealed during a Confession, he did not go to the authorities. Garnet had previously opposed any violent action towards the English crown despite their persecution of Catholics, so he tried to plead with the ringleader of the Gunpowder Plot to cancel the plans and wrote to Rome trying to get a papal order against violence in the hopes that would cause the plotters to stand down. Regardless, when the plot was found out by the authorities Garnet was given a show trial and then put to death.[[/note]]

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* Shakespeare appears to take a veiled shot at Jesuits in ''Theatre/{{Macbeth}}'', when after Duncan's murder there's a knock at the door answered by a porter, who plays up as though he's the Keeper keeper of the gate Gate to Hell, and Hell "welcoming" condemned souls to hell. One of the condemned souls he mentions is an "equivocator" who committed treason and then found that he could not equivocate his way to Heaven, and now is knocking on the gate of Hell.Heaven. This is a reference to the real life Jesuit practice of "Mental Reservation", which is more commonly called equivocation, and the talk of treason is almost certainly a slam on one particular priest, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Garnet Henry Garnet]], who was convicted of and executed for treason around the same time Shakespeare was writing ''Macbeth'', and had also written a pamphlet in defense of equivocation. See the note for more details. [[note]]Garnet had knowledge of [[UsefulNotes/GuyFawkes the Gunpowder Plot]] before it happened, but since that information was revealed during a Confession, he did not go to the English authorities. Garnet had previously opposed any violent action towards the English crown despite their persecution of Catholics, so he tried to plead with the ringleader of the Gunpowder Plot to cancel the plans and wrote to Rome trying to get a papal order against violence in the hopes that would cause the plotters to stand down. Regardless, when the plot was found out by the authorities Garnet was given a show trial (which included his prosecutors blatantly lying about evidence and trying to connect Garnet to every act of rebellion against or insubordination to the crown over the course of decades), and then put to death.[[/note]]
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* ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' features the BigBad of the Shimousa story chapter, [[spoiler:an AlternateUniverse version of Amakusa Shirou, already [[JapaneseChristian Japan's most (in)famous Christian]],]] using "dark Jesuit sorcery" in order to create a curse. He applies this curse to Servants to corrupt them and [[ReforgedIntoAMinion turn them into his underlings]] with the goal of destroying all of Japan. [spoiler:(Possibly subverted since it turns out that the magic he's using comes from a completely different source.)]]
* Downplayed in ''VideoGame/OnimushaDawnOfDreams'' with Luis Frois, an real-life Jesuit missionary that received HistoricalVillainUpgrade in the game by being turned into an MadScientist and a SinisterMinister. However, his ties with Jesuits aren't emphasized and it turns out [[spoiler:he was possessed by a demon and was GoodAllAlong]].

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* ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' features the BigBad of the Shimousa story chapter, [[spoiler:an AlternateUniverse version of Amakusa Shirou, already [[JapaneseChristian Japan's most (in)famous Christian]],]] using "dark Jesuit sorcery" in order to create a curse. He applies this curse to Servants to corrupt them and [[ReforgedIntoAMinion turn them into his underlings]] with the goal of destroying all of Japan. [spoiler:(Possibly [[spoiler:(Possibly subverted since it turns out that the magic he's using comes from a completely different source.)]]
* Downplayed in ''VideoGame/OnimushaDawnOfDreams'' with Luis Frois, an a real-life Jesuit missionary that received HistoricalVillainUpgrade in the game by being turned into an MadScientist and a SinisterMinister. However, his ties with Jesuits aren't emphasized and it turns out [[spoiler:he [[spoiler:the reason he became evil after many admirable deeds throughout his is life is because he was possessed by a demon and demon. The actual Luis was GoodAllAlong]].
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[[folder:Theater]]
* Shakespeare appears to take a veiled shot at Jesuits in ''Theatre/{{Macbeth}}'', when after Duncan's murder there's a knock at the door answered by a porter, who plays up as though he's the Keeper of the gate to Hell, and mentions an "equivocator" who committed treason and could not equivocate his way to Heaven, and now is knocking on the gate of Hell. This is a reference to the real life Jesuit practice of "Mental Reservation", which is more commonly called equivocation, and the talk of treason is almost certainly a slam on one particular priest, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Garnet Henry Garnet]], who was convicted of and executed for treason around the same time Shakespeare was writing ''Macbeth'', and had written in defense of equivocation. See the note for more details. [[note]]Garnet had knowledge of [[UsefulNotes/GuyFawkes the Gunpowder Plot]] before it happened, but since that information was revealed during a Confession, he did not go to the authorities. Garnet had previously opposed any violent action towards the English crown despite their persecution of Catholics, so he tried to plead with the ringleader of the Gunpowder Plot to cancel the plans and wrote to Rome trying to get a papal order against violence in the hopes that would cause the plotters to stand down. Regardless, when the plot was found out by the authorities Garnet was given a show trial and then put to death.[[/note]]
-->'''Porter:''' Here's a knocking indeed! If a man were porter of hell gate, he should have old turning the key. (Knock.) Knock, knock, knock! Who's there, i' th' name of Beelzebub? Here's a farmer that hanged himself on th' expectation of plenty. Come in time! Have napkins enough about you; here you'll sweat for 't. (Knock.) Knock, knock! Who's there, in th' other devil's name? Faith, here's an equivocator that could swear in both the scales against either scale, who committed treason enough for God's sake yet could not equivocate to heaven. O, come in, equivocator.
[[/folder]]
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* ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' features the BigBad of the Shimousa story chapter, [[spoiler:an AlternateUniverse version of Amakusa Shirou, already [[JapaneseChristian Japan's most (in)famous Christian]],]] using "dark Jesuit sorcery" in order to create a curse. He applies this curse to Servants to corrupt them and [[ReforgedIntoAMinion turn them into his underlings]] with the goal of destroying all of Japan.

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* ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' features the BigBad of the Shimousa story chapter, [[spoiler:an AlternateUniverse version of Amakusa Shirou, already [[JapaneseChristian Japan's most (in)famous Christian]],]] using "dark Jesuit sorcery" in order to create a curse. He applies this curse to Servants to corrupt them and [[ReforgedIntoAMinion turn them into his underlings]] with the goal of destroying all of Japan. [spoiler:(Possibly subverted since it turns out that the magic he's using comes from a completely different source.)]]
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* Creator/FyodorDostoevsky provides a Russian Orthodox view of this trope in ''Literature/TheIdiot''. When the endlessly kind, Christ-like Prince Myshkin discovers that a former mentor and dear friend has converted from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, and joined the Jesuit order to boot, Myshkin launches into an uncharacteristically harsh tirade, denouncing the Catholic Church as the secret enemy of Christianity and the true creator of Atheism. After establishing this baseline hatred of Catholics in general, Myshkin then insists that the Jesuits are the most extreme and worst of the lot. (This was [[AuthorFilibuster Dostoevsky's actual opinion]] to boot, and reflected [[WriteWhoYouKnow how he felt when one of his old friends became a Jesuit in real life]].)
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* The Jesuits' philosophy of casuistry (case-based reasoning) came in for much criticism in its time, including by Catholics like the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (a Jansenist). In particular, they were attacked for arguing that [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight deception (especially under oath) was not always wrong if it saved a life]]. This resulted from the cases of captured Jesuit missionaries who were forcibly sworn to tell the truth in court by Protestant authorities and then ordered to identify people who had harbored them-knowing that any person named would be put to death, as this was a capital crime. Thomas Sanchez, a famous Jesuit, therefore formulated the doctrine of mental reservation. In its strictest form, the person practicing this might answer "I know not" when asked a question, while internally they said "to tell you." Other philosophers did not accept that it was anything but simple lying. This doctrine was eventually condemned by the Pope after it had become scandalous, and tarred the Jesuits' reputation. [[{{Hypocrite}} Critics such as Pascal]] also [[ConfirmationBias ignored]] the restrictions Sanchez had placed on its use, attacking a [[TheWarOnStraw strawman]] version of it. The wider form of mental reservation, equivocating between words' meanings (for instance answering "I am not ''a'' priest" while thinking about some other priest), was still viewed as orthodox afterward. A similar form was saying misleading but technically true things, Catholic saints such as Athanasius of Alexandria having used it to save their lives: Athanasius' followers, according to legend, were asked by Roman soldiers pursuing him who did not know his appearance if they had seen him and they replied [[ExactWords "Yes, he is not very far off"]] when he was in their company at the time. Even now there is still debate in Catholic circles over whether this was lying, or if lies could be justified with cases like that. The stereotype of Jesuits using casuistry to be deceitful is also the origin of the word [[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jesuitical “Jesuitical”,]] an archaic insult meaning “sneaky and untrustworthy”.

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* The Jesuits' philosophy of casuistry (case-based reasoning) came in for much criticism in its time, including by Catholics like the French philosopher Blaise Pascal Creator/BlaisePascal (a Jansenist). In particular, they were attacked for arguing that [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight deception (especially under oath) was not always wrong if it saved a life]]. This resulted from the cases of captured Jesuit missionaries who were forcibly sworn to tell the truth in court by Protestant authorities and then ordered to identify people who had harbored them-knowing that any person named would be put to death, as this was a capital crime. Thomas Sanchez, a famous Jesuit, therefore formulated the doctrine of mental reservation. In its strictest form, the person practicing this might answer "I know not" when asked a question, while internally they said "to tell you." Other philosophers did not accept that it was anything but simple lying. This doctrine was eventually condemned by the Pope after it had become scandalous, and tarred the Jesuits' reputation. [[{{Hypocrite}} Critics such as Pascal]] also [[ConfirmationBias ignored]] the restrictions Sanchez had placed on its use, attacking a [[TheWarOnStraw strawman]] version of it. The wider form of mental reservation, equivocating between words' meanings (for instance answering "I am not ''a'' priest" while thinking about some other priest), was still viewed as orthodox afterward. A similar form was saying misleading but technically true things, Catholic saints such as Athanasius of Alexandria having used it to save their lives: Athanasius' followers, according to legend, were asked by Roman soldiers pursuing him who did not know his appearance if they had seen him and they replied [[ExactWords "Yes, he is not very far off"]] when he was in their company at the time. Even now there is still debate in Catholic circles over whether this was lying, or if lies could be justified with cases like that. The stereotype of Jesuits using casuistry to be deceitful is also the origin of the word [[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jesuitical “Jesuitical”,]] an archaic insult meaning “sneaky and untrustworthy”.
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* The Victorian historical novel ''Henry Esmond'' has Father Holt, who gets involved in the Jacobite Rebellion, and at one point is shown in Germany commanding Catholic military forces under the name "Holtz". More "evil" because he's Catholic than because of [[OffstageVillainy anything the character actually does]], he's more like a PyschoSupporter to the hero than an actual villain.

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* The Victorian historical novel ''Henry Esmond'' has Father Holt, who gets involved in the Jacobite Rebellion, and at one point is shown in Germany commanding Catholic military forces under the name "Holtz". More "evil" because he's Catholic than because of [[OffstageVillainy anything the character actually does]], he's more like a PyschoSupporter PsychoSupporter to the hero than an actual villain.
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The Jesuit activities in missionary work, which led to the not entirely incorrect accusation of running their own private empire, also triggered some good old-fashioned colonialism. While the Jesuit missions were far from perfect and rather paternalistic, they treated the Native Americans as basically people, which came to cause turmoil whenever Spain (where native slavery was banned) and Portugal (where it wasn't, and in fact native tribes themselves profitted from it) blurred their frontiers in South America. This eventually caused a true military conflict, the Guaranitic War, where native militias trained and chieftained by Spanish Jesuits went openly to war against the Iberian empires to stop large tracts of Spanish land to be handed to the Portuguese, whose slavehunters could prey on the inhabitants unopposed. Although the rebellion was crushed, the event essentially confirmed all the fears in Europe about the Company of Jesus being a dangerous intra-state able to challenge sovereign powers, factoring heavily in their suppression and making them distinctly unpopular even in Catholic countries until they end of 19th century.

to:

The Jesuit activities in missionary work, which led to the not entirely incorrect accusation of running their own private empire, also triggered some good old-fashioned colonialism. While the Jesuit missions were far from perfect and rather paternalistic, they treated the Native Americans as basically people, people and fought against their enslavement, which came to cause turmoil whenever Spain (where native slavery was banned) and Portugal (where it wasn't, and in fact native tribes themselves profitted from it) blurred their frontiers in South America. either law or custom disagreed. This eventually caused a true military conflict, the Guaranitic Guaraní War, where native militias trained and chieftained by Spanish Jesuits went revolted openly to war against the Iberian empires in order to stop large tracts of land of the Spanish land Empire to be handed to the Portuguese, whose its Portuguese counterpart, as while native slavery was illegal in Spain, it was legal and very profitable in Portugal (with natives happily partaking on it), which would allow slavehunters could to prey on the inhabitants of the lands unopposed. Although the rebellion was crushed, the event essentially confirmed all the fears in Europe about the Company of Jesus being a dangerous intra-state able to challenge sovereign powers, factoring heavily in their suppression and making them distinctly unpopular even in Catholic countries until they end of 19th century.

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Fixing anachronisms.


This trope doesn't just appear in Protestant works, though. The Jesuits also got a bad reputation in Catholic countries too, and were outright expelled from the Portuguese and Spanish Empires, albeit for different reasons. In the 17th century, the Jesuits--who swear an oath of loyalty and obedience to the Pope in addition to the standard religious vows--became identified with [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramontanism ultramontanism,]] a doctrine that asserted the absolute supremacy of the Pope in all matters. Although this is largely standard Catholic doctrine today, there were many movements in Catholicism that opposed that kind of supremacy. Perhaps more significantly, ultramontanism challenged many Catholic rulers' rights to meddle in Church affairs, particularly the then-standard practice of letting Catholic monarchs choose the Church hierarchy with only a nominal papal veto. The Jesuits also gained a reputation for being power-seeking and economically successful, angering both temporal rulers and the higher-ups of the Church in Rome. The fancy logic and scholarship the Jesuits cultivated to beat Protestants in arguments could also be used to challenge Church orthodoxy--and it often was (and still is). The Jesuit activities in missionary work (which led to the not entirely incorrect accusation of running their own private empire) also triggered some good old-fashioned racism. While the Jesuit missions were far from perfect and rather paternalistic, they treated the Native Americans as basically people. Secular Catholic colonists in the New World generally would rather seize the Jesuit "Mission Indians" as slaves in the encomienda system, and considered the cheap native labor used in the Jesuit missions as economic competitors, leading to clashes. Altogether, these made the Jesuits distinctly unpopular in many Catholic countries for a time, especially from 1650-1850.

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This trope doesn't just appear in Protestant works, though. The Jesuits also got a bad reputation in Catholic countries too, and were outright expelled from the Portuguese and Spanish Empires, Empires during the reigns of Joseph I and [[UsefulNotes/CharlesIIIOfSpain Charles III]], albeit for different reasons. In the 17th century, the Jesuits--who swear an oath of loyalty and obedience to the Pope in addition to the standard religious vows--became identified with [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramontanism ultramontanism,]] a doctrine that asserted the absolute supremacy of the Pope in all matters. Although this is largely standard Catholic doctrine today, there were many movements in Catholicism that opposed that kind of supremacy. Perhaps more significantly, ultramontanism challenged many Catholic rulers' rights to meddle in Church affairs, particularly the then-standard practice of letting Catholic monarchs choose the Church hierarchy with only a nominal papal veto. The Jesuits also gained a reputation for being power-seeking and economically successful, angering both temporal rulers and the higher-ups of the Church in Rome. The fancy logic and scholarship the Jesuits cultivated to beat Protestants in arguments could also be used to challenge Church orthodoxy--and it often was (and still is). is).

The Jesuit activities in missionary work (which work, which led to the not entirely incorrect accusation of running their own private empire) empire, also triggered some good old-fashioned racism. colonialism. While the Jesuit missions were far from perfect and rather paternalistic, they treated the Native Americans as basically people. Secular Catholic colonists in the New World generally would rather seize the Jesuit "Mission Indians" as slaves in the encomienda system, and considered the cheap people, which came to cause turmoil whenever Spain (where native labor used slavery was banned) and Portugal (where it wasn't, and in fact native tribes themselves profitted from it) blurred their frontiers in South America. This eventually caused a true military conflict, the Jesuit missions as economic competitors, leading to clashes. Altogether, these made the Guaranitic War, where native militias trained and chieftained by Spanish Jesuits went openly to war against the Iberian empires to stop large tracts of Spanish land to be handed to the Portuguese, whose slavehunters could prey on the inhabitants unopposed. Although the rebellion was crushed, the event essentially confirmed all the fears in Europe about the Company of Jesus being a dangerous intra-state able to challenge sovereign powers, factoring heavily in their suppression and making them distinctly unpopular even in many Catholic countries for a time, especially from 1650-1850.
until they end of 19th century.
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* In Flann O'Brien's (author of ''Literature/TheThirdPoliceman'') later novel ''The Hard Life'', the protagonist's guardian Mr. Collopy is friends with a Jesuit priest, [[MeaningfulName Father Kurt Fahrt]]. When Fahrt refuses to countenance Collopy's plan to blow up Dublin City Hall (in a planning dispute over ladies' public toilets), Collopy reminds Fahrt of the Jesuits' own role in the [[GuyFawkes Gunpowder Plot of 1605]]. He also seems to think the Jesuits were responsible for the [[UsefulNotes/ConspiracyTheories Franco-Prussian War]].

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* In Flann O'Brien's (author of ''Literature/TheThirdPoliceman'') later novel ''The Hard Life'', the protagonist's guardian Mr. Collopy is friends with a Jesuit priest, [[MeaningfulName Father Kurt Fahrt]]. When Fahrt refuses to countenance Collopy's plan to blow up Dublin City Hall (in a planning dispute over ladies' public toilets), Collopy reminds Fahrt of the Jesuits' own role in the [[GuyFawkes Gunpowder Plot of 1605]]. He also seems to think the Jesuits were responsible for the [[UsefulNotes/ConspiracyTheories Franco-Prussian War]].War.
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** Even members of other Catholic monastic orders don't like the Jesuits all that much, with the Franciscan Friar Domingo telling Blackthorne that the Jesuits are there to increase their power and influence instead of bringing the message of Christ to the Japanese, and have banned all other religious orders from operating in Japan. Domingo tells Blackthrone that the Jesuits had defied specific orders from UsefulNotes/ThePope regarding behavior of missionaries.

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** Even members of other Catholic monastic orders don't like the Jesuits all that much, with the Franciscan Friar Domingo telling Blackthorne that the Jesuits are there to increase their power and influence instead of bringing the message of Christ to the Japanese, and have banned all other religious orders from operating in Japan. Domingo tells Blackthrone Blackthorne that the Jesuits had defied specific orders from UsefulNotes/ThePope regarding behavior of missionaries.
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* ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' features the BigBad of the Shimousa story chapter, [[spoiler:an AlternateUniverse version of Amakusa Shirou, already [[JapaneseChristian Japan's most (in)famous Christian]],]] using "dark Jesuit sorcery" in order to create a curse. He applies this curse to Servants to corrupt them and [[ReforgedIntoAMinion turn them into his underlings]] with the goal of destroying all of Japan.
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None


* ''[[Literature/AsianSaga Shogun]]'': Both in the novel and in the television miniseries adaptation the Jesuits are varying degrees of this as they attempt to take control of and convert 17th century Japan to Roman Catholicism. When John Blackthorne and other surviving crew members of the ''Erasmus'' arrive at Japan they immediately see the protestant Blackthorne as a threat because the Englishman tells Lord Torunaga of world affairs from a different perspective than the Jesuits or Portuguese have been giving them. As part of this Blackthorne told Torunaga about the Treaty of Zaragoza, which divided up previously undiscovered lands between the Spanish and the Portugese which had Japan in the Portugese zone. While it's not confirmed one way or the other it's implied these Jesuits tried to have Blackthorne assassinated by having an [[SamuraiInNinjaTown Amida Tong]] assassin infiltrate the castle and kill him as he slept. Later on, as Blackthorne's importance and influence grew the Jesuits begin trying to co-opt Blackthorne and even protected him from a Portuguese ship Captain determined to kill the Englishman.

to:

* ''[[Literature/AsianSaga Shogun]]'': Both in the novel and in the television miniseries adaptation the Jesuits are varying degrees of this as they attempt to take control of and convert 17th century Japan to Roman Catholicism. When John Blackthorne and other surviving crew members of the ''Erasmus'' arrive at Japan they the Jesuits immediately see the protestant Blackthorne as a threat because the Englishman tells Lord Torunaga of world affairs from a different perspective than the Jesuits or Portuguese have been giving them. them. As part of this Blackthorne told Torunaga about the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Zaragoza Treaty of Zaragoza, Zaragoza]], which divided up previously undiscovered lands between the Spanish and the Portugese which had with Japan in the Portugese zone. While it's not confirmed one way or the other it's implied these the Jesuits tried to have Blackthorne assassinated by having an [[SamuraiInNinjaTown Amida Tong]] assassin infiltrate the castle and kill him as he slept. Later on, as Blackthorne's importance and influence grew the Jesuits begin trying to co-opt Blackthorne and even protected him from a Portuguese ship Captain determined to kill the Englishman.
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Poisonous Friend is no longer a trope


* The Victorian historical novel ''Henry Esmond'' has Father Holt, who gets involved in the Jacobite Rebellion, and at one point is shown in Germany commanding Catholic military forces under the name "Holtz". More "evil" because he's Catholic than because of [[OffstageVillainy anything the character actually does]], he's more like a PoisonousFriend to the hero than an actual villain.

to:

* The Victorian historical novel ''Henry Esmond'' has Father Holt, who gets involved in the Jacobite Rebellion, and at one point is shown in Germany commanding Catholic military forces under the name "Holtz". More "evil" because he's Catholic than because of [[OffstageVillainy anything the character actually does]], he's more like a PoisonousFriend PyschoSupporter to the hero than an actual villain.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''[[Literature/AsianSaga Shogun]]'': Both in the novel and in the television miniseries adaptation the Jesuits are varying degrees of this as they attempt to take control of and convert 17th century Japan to Roman Catholicism. When John Blackthorne and other surviving crew members of the ''Erasmus'' arrive at Japan they immediately see the protestant Blackthorne as a threat because the Englishman tells Lord Torunaga of world affairs from a different perspective than the Jesuits or Portuguese have been giving them. While it's not confirmed one way or the other it's implied these Jesuits tried to have Blackthorne assassinated by having an [[SamuraiInNinjaTown Amida Tong]] assassin infiltrate the castle and kill him as he slept. Later on, as Blackthorne's importance and influence grew the Jesuits begin trying to co-opt Blackthorne and even protected him from a Portuguese ship Captain determined to kill the Englishman.
** Even members of other Catholic monastic orders don't like the Jesuits all that much, with the Franciscan Friar Domingo telling Blackthorne that the Jesuits are there to increase their power and influence, and have banned all other religious orders from operating in Japan. Domingo tells Blackthrone that the Jesuits had defied specific orders from UsefulNotes/ThePope regarding behavior of missionaries.

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* ''[[Literature/AsianSaga Shogun]]'': Both in the novel and in the television miniseries adaptation the Jesuits are varying degrees of this as they attempt to take control of and convert 17th century Japan to Roman Catholicism. When John Blackthorne and other surviving crew members of the ''Erasmus'' arrive at Japan they immediately see the protestant Blackthorne as a threat because the Englishman tells Lord Torunaga of world affairs from a different perspective than the Jesuits or Portuguese have been giving them. As part of this Blackthorne told Torunaga about the Treaty of Zaragoza, which divided up previously undiscovered lands between the Spanish and the Portugese which had Japan in the Portugese zone. While it's not confirmed one way or the other it's implied these Jesuits tried to have Blackthorne assassinated by having an [[SamuraiInNinjaTown Amida Tong]] assassin infiltrate the castle and kill him as he slept. Later on, as Blackthorne's importance and influence grew the Jesuits begin trying to co-opt Blackthorne and even protected him from a Portuguese ship Captain determined to kill the Englishman.
** Even members of other Catholic monastic orders don't like the Jesuits all that much, with the Franciscan Friar Domingo telling Blackthorne that the Jesuits are there to increase their power and influence, influence instead of bringing the message of Christ to the Japanese, and have banned all other religious orders from operating in Japan. Domingo tells Blackthrone that the Jesuits had defied specific orders from UsefulNotes/ThePope regarding behavior of missionaries.

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* ''[[Literature/AsianSaga Shogun]]'': Both in the novel and in the television miniseries adaptation the Jesuits are varying degrees of this as they attempt to take control of and convert 17th century Japan to Roman Catholicism. When John Blackthorne and other surviving crew members of the ''Erasmus'' arrive at Japan they immediately see Blackthorne as a threat because the Englishman tells Lord Torunaga of world affairs from a different perspective than the Jesuits or Portuguese have been giving them. While it's not confirmed one way or the other it's implied these Jesuits tried to have Blackthorne assassinated by having an [[SamuraiInNinjaTown Amida Tong]] assassin infiltrate the castle and kill him as he slept. Later on, as Blackthorne's importance and influence grew the Jesuits begin trying to co-opt Blackthorne and even protected him from a Portuguese ship Captain determined to kill the Englishman.

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* ''[[Literature/AsianSaga Shogun]]'': Both in the novel and in the television miniseries adaptation the Jesuits are varying degrees of this as they attempt to take control of and convert 17th century Japan to Roman Catholicism. When John Blackthorne and other surviving crew members of the ''Erasmus'' arrive at Japan they immediately see the protestant Blackthorne as a threat because the Englishman tells Lord Torunaga of world affairs from a different perspective than the Jesuits or Portuguese have been giving them. them. While it's not confirmed one way or the other it's implied these Jesuits tried to have Blackthorne assassinated by having an [[SamuraiInNinjaTown Amida Tong]] assassin infiltrate the castle and kill him as he slept. Later on, as Blackthorne's importance and influence grew the Jesuits begin trying to co-opt Blackthorne and even protected him from a Portuguese ship Captain determined to kill the Englishman. Englishman.
** Even members of other Catholic monastic orders don't like the Jesuits all that much, with the Franciscan Friar Domingo telling Blackthorne that the Jesuits are there to increase their power and influence, and have banned all other religious orders from operating in Japan. Domingo tells Blackthrone that the Jesuits had defied specific orders from UsefulNotes/ThePope regarding behavior of missionaries.
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* ''[[Literature/AsianSaga Shogun]]'': Both in the novel and in the television miniseries adaptation the Jesuits are varying degrees of this as they attempt to take control of and convert 17th century Japan to Roman Catholicism. When John Blackthorne and other surviving crew members of the ''Erasmus'' arrive at Japan they immediately see Blackthorne as a threat because the Englishman tells Lord Torunaga of world affairs from a different perspective than the Jesuits or Portuguese have been giving them. While it's not confirmed one way or the other it's implied these Jesuits tried to have Blackthorne assassinated by having an [[SamuraiInNinjaTown Amida Tong]] assassin infiltrate the castle and kill him as he slept. Later on, as Blackthorne's importance and influence grew the Jesuits begin trying to co-opt Blackthorne and even protected him from a Portuguese ship Captain determined to kill the Englishman.
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* A few of the Jesuits in ''Film/BlackRobe'', a film set in colonial New France, are pretty unscrupulous -- notably, one lies to the Huron and tells them that baptism will cure their smallpox -- and the film is certainly critical of the Jesuits' mission, though the film's protagonist is a genuinely good Jesuit who honestly believes he is helping people. His Algonquin guides, however, are pretty wary of him, since he wears the eponymous [[BlackCloak black robe]], sleeps separately from everyone else, and refuses to have sex with the women.

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* A few of the Jesuits in ''Film/BlackRobe'', a film set in colonial New France, are pretty unscrupulous -- notably, one lies to the Huron and tells them that baptism will cure their smallpox -- and the film is certainly critical of the Jesuits' mission, though the film's protagonist is a genuinely good Jesuit who honestly believes he is helping people. His [[NativeGuide Algonquin guides, guides]], however, are pretty wary of him, since he wears the eponymous [[BlackCloak black robe]], sleeps separately from everyone else, and refuses to have sex with the women.



* In Music/ModestMussorgsky's opera ''Boris Gudenov'', Polish princess Marina Mniszech is pressured by an Jesuit priest to marry [[UsefulNotes/TsarTsarAutocrats Russian Tsar]] [[PuppetKing False Demetrius I]] or else she will burn in hellfire.

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* In Music/ModestMussorgsky's opera ''Boris Gudenov'', Polish princess Marina Mniszech is pressured by an a Jesuit priest to marry [[UsefulNotes/TsarTsarAutocrats Russian Tsar]] [[PuppetKing False Demetrius I]] or else she will burn in hellfire.



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->''Si cum Iesuitis itis, non cum Iesu itis''

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->''Si cum Iesuitis itis, non cum Iesu itis''
itis''[[labelnote:Translation]]If you walk with the Jesuits, you don't walk with Jesus.[[/labelnote]]
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Subtrope of SinisterMinister.
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* The Jesuits' philosophy of casuistry (case-based reasoning) came in for much criticism in its time, including by Catholics like the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (a Jansenist). In particular, they were attacked for arguing that [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight deception (especially under oath) was not always wrong if it saved a life]]. This resulted from the cases of captured Jesuit missionaries who were forcibly sworn to tell the truth in court by Protestant authorities and then ordered to identify people who had harbored them-knowing that any person named would be put to death, as this was a capital crime. Thomas Sanchez, a famous Jesuit, therefore formulated the doctrine of mental reservation. In its strictest form, the person practicing this might answer "I know not" when asked a question, while internally they said "to tell you." Other philosophers did not accept that it was anything but simple lying. This doctrine was eventually condemned by the Pope after it had become scandalous, and tarred the Jesuits' reputation. Critics such as Pascal also ignored the restrictions Sanchez had placed on its use, attacking a [[TheWarOnStraw strawman]] version of it. The wider form of mental reservation, equivocating between words' meanings (for instance answering "I am not ''a'' priest" while thinking about some other priest), was still viewed as orthodox afterward. A similar form was saying misleading but technically true things, Catholic saints such as Athanasius of Alexandria having used it to save their lives: Athanasius' followers, according to legend, were asked by Roman soldiers pursuing him who did not know his appearance if they had seen him and they replied [[ExactWords "Yes, he is not very far off"]] when he was in their company at the time. Even now there is still debate in Catholic circles over whether this was lying, or if lies could be justified with cases like that. The stereotype of Jesuits using casuistry to be deceitful is also the origin of the word [[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jesuitical “Jesuitical”,]] an archaic insult meaning “sneaky and untrustworthy”.

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* The Jesuits' philosophy of casuistry (case-based reasoning) came in for much criticism in its time, including by Catholics like the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (a Jansenist). In particular, they were attacked for arguing that [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight deception (especially under oath) was not always wrong if it saved a life]]. This resulted from the cases of captured Jesuit missionaries who were forcibly sworn to tell the truth in court by Protestant authorities and then ordered to identify people who had harbored them-knowing that any person named would be put to death, as this was a capital crime. Thomas Sanchez, a famous Jesuit, therefore formulated the doctrine of mental reservation. In its strictest form, the person practicing this might answer "I know not" when asked a question, while internally they said "to tell you." Other philosophers did not accept that it was anything but simple lying. This doctrine was eventually condemned by the Pope after it had become scandalous, and tarred the Jesuits' reputation. [[{{Hypocrite}} Critics such as Pascal Pascal]] also ignored [[ConfirmationBias ignored]] the restrictions Sanchez had placed on its use, attacking a [[TheWarOnStraw strawman]] version of it. The wider form of mental reservation, equivocating between words' meanings (for instance answering "I am not ''a'' priest" while thinking about some other priest), was still viewed as orthodox afterward. A similar form was saying misleading but technically true things, Catholic saints such as Athanasius of Alexandria having used it to save their lives: Athanasius' followers, according to legend, were asked by Roman soldiers pursuing him who did not know his appearance if they had seen him and they replied [[ExactWords "Yes, he is not very far off"]] when he was in their company at the time. Even now there is still debate in Catholic circles over whether this was lying, or if lies could be justified with cases like that. The stereotype of Jesuits using casuistry to be deceitful is also the origin of the word [[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jesuitical “Jesuitical”,]] an archaic insult meaning “sneaky and untrustworthy”.
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* The Jesuits' philosophy of casuistry (case-based reasoning) came in for much criticism in its time, including by Catholics like the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (a Jansenist). In particular, they were attacked for arguing that deception (especially under oath) was not always wrong if it saved a life. This resulted from the cases of captured Jesuit missionaries who were forcibly sworn to tell the truth in court by Protestant authorities and then ordered to identify people who had harbored them-knowing that any person named would be put to death, as this was a capital crime. Thomas Sanchez, a famous Jesuit, therefore formulated the doctrine of mental reservation. In its strictest form, the person practicing this might answer "I know not" when asked a question, while internally they said "to tell you." Other philosophers did not accept that it was anything but simple lying. This doctrine was eventually condemned by the Pope after it had become scandalous, and tarred the Jesuits' reputation. Critics such as Pascal also ignored the restrictions Sanchez had placed on its use, attacking a [[TheWarOnStraw strawman]] version of it. The wider form of mental reservation, equivocating between words' meanings (for instance answering "I am not ''a'' priest" while thinking about some other priest), was still viewed as orthodox afterward. A similar form was saying misleading but technically true things, Catholic saints such as Athanasius of Alexandria having used it to save their lives: Athanasius' followers, according to legend, were asked by Roman soldiers pursuing him who did not know his appearance if they had seen him and they replied [[ExactWords "Yes, he is not very far off"]] when he was in their company at the time. Even now there is still debate in Catholic circles over whether this was lying, or if lies could be justified with cases like that. The stereotype of Jesuits using casuistry to be deceitful is also the origin of the word [[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jesuitical “Jesuitical”,]] an archaic insult meaning “sneaky and untrustworthy”.

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* The Jesuits' philosophy of casuistry (case-based reasoning) came in for much criticism in its time, including by Catholics like the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (a Jansenist). In particular, they were attacked for arguing that [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight deception (especially under oath) was not always wrong if it saved a life.life]]. This resulted from the cases of captured Jesuit missionaries who were forcibly sworn to tell the truth in court by Protestant authorities and then ordered to identify people who had harbored them-knowing that any person named would be put to death, as this was a capital crime. Thomas Sanchez, a famous Jesuit, therefore formulated the doctrine of mental reservation. In its strictest form, the person practicing this might answer "I know not" when asked a question, while internally they said "to tell you." Other philosophers did not accept that it was anything but simple lying. This doctrine was eventually condemned by the Pope after it had become scandalous, and tarred the Jesuits' reputation. Critics such as Pascal also ignored the restrictions Sanchez had placed on its use, attacking a [[TheWarOnStraw strawman]] version of it. The wider form of mental reservation, equivocating between words' meanings (for instance answering "I am not ''a'' priest" while thinking about some other priest), was still viewed as orthodox afterward. A similar form was saying misleading but technically true things, Catholic saints such as Athanasius of Alexandria having used it to save their lives: Athanasius' followers, according to legend, were asked by Roman soldiers pursuing him who did not know his appearance if they had seen him and they replied [[ExactWords "Yes, he is not very far off"]] when he was in their company at the time. Even now there is still debate in Catholic circles over whether this was lying, or if lies could be justified with cases like that. The stereotype of Jesuits using casuistry to be deceitful is also the origin of the word [[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jesuitical “Jesuitical”,]] an archaic insult meaning “sneaky and untrustworthy”.
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Dewicking pages that are being merged into UsefulNotes.Logical Fallacies.


* The Jesuits' philosophy of casuistry (case-based reasoning) came in for much criticism in its time, including by Catholics like the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (a Jansenist). In particular, they were attacked for arguing that deception (especially under oath) was not always wrong if it saved a life. This resulted from the cases of captured Jesuit missionaries who were forcibly sworn to tell the truth in court by Protestant authorities and then ordered to identify people who had harbored them-knowing that any person named would be put to death, as this was a capital crime. Thomas Sanchez, a famous Jesuit, therefore formulated the doctrine of mental reservation. In its strictest form, the person practicing this might answer "I know not" when asked a question, while internally they said "to tell you." Other philosophers did not accept that it was anything but simple lying. This doctrine was eventually condemned by the Pope after it had become scandalous, and tarred the Jesuits' reputation. Critics such as Pascal also ignored the restrictions Sanchez had placed on its use, attacking a [[StrawmanFallacy strawman]] version of it. The wider form of mental reservation, equivocating between words' meanings (for instance answering "I am not ''a'' priest" while thinking about some other priest), was still viewed as orthodox afterward. A similar form was saying misleading but technically true things, Catholic saints such as Athanasius of Alexandria having used it to save their lives: Athanasius' followers, according to legend, were asked by Roman soldiers pursuing him who did not know his appearance if they had seen him and they replied [[ExactWords "Yes, he is not very far off"]] when he was in their company at the time. Even now there is still debate in Catholic circles over whether this was lying, or if lies could be justified with cases like that. The stereotype of Jesuits using casuistry to be deceitful is also the origin of the word [[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jesuitical “Jesuitical”,]] an archaic insult meaning “sneaky and untrustworthy”.

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* The Jesuits' philosophy of casuistry (case-based reasoning) came in for much criticism in its time, including by Catholics like the French philosopher Blaise Pascal (a Jansenist). In particular, they were attacked for arguing that deception (especially under oath) was not always wrong if it saved a life. This resulted from the cases of captured Jesuit missionaries who were forcibly sworn to tell the truth in court by Protestant authorities and then ordered to identify people who had harbored them-knowing that any person named would be put to death, as this was a capital crime. Thomas Sanchez, a famous Jesuit, therefore formulated the doctrine of mental reservation. In its strictest form, the person practicing this might answer "I know not" when asked a question, while internally they said "to tell you." Other philosophers did not accept that it was anything but simple lying. This doctrine was eventually condemned by the Pope after it had become scandalous, and tarred the Jesuits' reputation. Critics such as Pascal also ignored the restrictions Sanchez had placed on its use, attacking a [[StrawmanFallacy [[TheWarOnStraw strawman]] version of it. The wider form of mental reservation, equivocating between words' meanings (for instance answering "I am not ''a'' priest" while thinking about some other priest), was still viewed as orthodox afterward. A similar form was saying misleading but technically true things, Catholic saints such as Athanasius of Alexandria having used it to save their lives: Athanasius' followers, according to legend, were asked by Roman soldiers pursuing him who did not know his appearance if they had seen him and they replied [[ExactWords "Yes, he is not very far off"]] when he was in their company at the time. Even now there is still debate in Catholic circles over whether this was lying, or if lies could be justified with cases like that. The stereotype of Jesuits using casuistry to be deceitful is also the origin of the word [[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jesuitical “Jesuitical”,]] an archaic insult meaning “sneaky and untrustworthy”.
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TRS has renamed Author Existence Failure to Died During Production. Link changed accordingly.


* Averted in Creator/RobertAntonWilson's ''Historical Illuminatus Chronicles'', which feature Father Ratti, a good Jesuit whose open-mindedness contrasts the [[TheFundamentalist fundamentalistic]] Dominicans. On the other hand the books also mention, though never show (due to AuthorExistenceFailure), Adam Weishaupt, the former Jesuit who went on to found the Bavarian Illuminati.

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* Averted in Creator/RobertAntonWilson's ''Historical Illuminatus Chronicles'', which feature Father Ratti, a good Jesuit whose open-mindedness contrasts the [[TheFundamentalist fundamentalistic]] Dominicans. On the other hand the books also mention, though never show (due to AuthorExistenceFailure), the author having DiedDuringProduction), Adam Weishaupt, the former Jesuit who went on to found the Bavarian Illuminati.

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