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* ''[[Webcomic/Homestuck2 Homestuck^2: Beyond Canon]]'' has been recieved significantly better than the infamous ''[[Literature/TheHomestuckEpilogues Homestuck Epilogues]]'', but it still has recieved many complaints from ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}'' fans for quite a few reasons. Many fans are upset about [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight Andrew Hussie no longer writing the story]], the lack of Flashes, and the directions that certain characters have taken (such as [[spoiler:Rose cheating on Kanaya with Jade]]).

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* ''[[Webcomic/Homestuck2 Homestuck^2: Beyond Canon]]'' ''Webcomic/HomestuckBeyondCanon'' has been recieved received significantly better than the infamous ''[[Literature/TheHomestuckEpilogues Homestuck Epilogues]]'', but it still has recieved received many complaints from ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}'' fans for quite a few reasons. Many fans are upset about [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight Andrew Hussie no longer writing the story]], the lack of Flashes, and the directions that certain characters have taken (such as [[spoiler:Rose cheating on Kanaya with Jade]]).
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Sometimes, the company will try to fix things with the next installment in the series, only to make more friends and more enemies. This may lead to an UnpleasableFanbase. Quite often, if they try to fix something, half the fanbase will [[AuthorsSavingThrow be glad that it was fixed]], while the other half will accuse the creators of PanderingToTheBase.

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Such installments can have worse long-term consequences than a sequel that is considered universally inferior. Sometimes, the company will try to fix things with the next installment in the series, only to make more friends and more enemies. This may lead to an UnpleasableFanbase. Quite often, if they try to fix something, half the fanbase will [[AuthorsSavingThrow be glad that it was fixed]], while the other half will accuse the creators of PanderingToTheBase.
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*** Fans are still divided between those who think ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKing2SimbasPride'' is decent in its own right and those who remain unhappy that Disney didn’t use the book series spin-off from the original film as its basis.

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*** Fans are still divided between those who think ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKing2SimbasPride'' ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKingIISimbasPride'' is decent in its own right and those who remain unhappy that Disney didn’t use the book series spin-off from the original film as its basis.
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* While ''Series/MisterRogersNeighborhood'' and its' spin-off ''WesternAnimation/DanielTigersNeighborhood'' are adored by many people, the fans of those shows are split on whether the second ''Mister Rogers' Neighborhood'' spin-off, ''Series/DonkeyHodie'', is good or bad. Deractors say that the show is nothing like the series it was based on and lacks the charm of it, while those who like it praise it for the good puppetry and special effects, as well as doing its' own thing rather than being exactly like ''Mister Rogers'' was.
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* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'': Season 5.

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* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'': Season 5. 5 in general is seen as this to Season 4, which was seen as a return to form for the show. From the aforementioned characters, Starlight Glimmer, and the Season finale, Season 5 is a hot point of contention because of the lack of much of the interesting arcs and stories Season 4 had, as Season 4 had the Rainbow Chest/Rainbow Power overarching plot, Weird Al guest starring in a Musical Episode, the Power Ponies, the Equestria Games, the Breezies, weird bat transformations, the continuation of the Discord arc, etc. The mid-season hiatus didn't help matters either.
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* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'': Season 5.
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* ''WesternAnimation/DanielTigersNeighborhood'', a sequel series to ''Series/MisterRogersNeighborhood'', has its fans, who say that the show is cute and it's nice that a new generation is getting a ''Mister Rogers''-style show, and its detractors, who either say that writing a sequel at all was wrong, or that it should have been live-action and/or slower paced, that the main characters are annoying, and/or that [[AdapatationalNiceGuy Lady Elaine was too different]].

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* ''WesternAnimation/DanielTigersNeighborhood'', a sequel series to ''Series/MisterRogersNeighborhood'', has its fans, who say that the show is cute and it's nice that a new generation is getting a ''Mister Rogers''-style show, and its detractors, who either say that writing a sequel at all was wrong, or that it should have been live-action and/or slower paced, that the main characters are annoying, and/or that [[AdapatationalNiceGuy [[AdaptationalNiceGuy Lady Elaine was too different]].



* ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies2021'': Some people think the show is too childish and too dissimilar to ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies1984'', while others think that the show is cute and that its childishness makes sense because it's a kids' show.

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* ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies2021'': ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies2018'': Some people think the show is too childish and too dissimilar to ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies1984'', while others think that the show is cute and that its childishness makes sense because it's a kids' show.



* ''WesternAnimation/Rugrats2020'': Some people think that it's good to bring the show back, while others hate it for the art style, [[AdaptationPersonalityChange making Grandpa Lou zen]], and/or making Betty a stereotypical ButchLesbian and in the process [[AdaptedOut adapting out Howard]].

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* ''WesternAnimation/Rugrats2020'': ''WesternAnimation/Rugrats2021'': Some people think that it's good to bring the show back, while others hate it for the art style, [[AdaptationPersonalityChange making Grandpa Lou zen]], and/or making Betty a stereotypical ButchLesbian and in the process [[AdaptedOut adapting out Howard]].
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* ''Literature/ACourtOfThornsAndRoses'':
** ''A Court of Mist and Fury'' is seen by many fans as an EvenBetterSequel to ''A Court of Thorns and Roses'' (with some fans going so far as to call it the series' peak). Many fans loved Rhysand's characterization and HiddenDepths, especially his support of Feyre and their romantic subtext becoming text, as well as the plotline involving Feyre dealing with and overcoming post-traumatic stress disorder, which most readers found to be a nuanced and realistic depiction. Some fans also appreciated that the book averts DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale, instead treating the subject very seriously. That said, there are some readers who took issue with Tamlin's character arc in this book and its knock-on effect upon other characters, and the introduction of a love triangle (which YA fiction of the time tended to be oversaturated in) among other things, with some even regarding it as the 'beginning of the end' for the series.
** ''A Court of Silver Flames''. Many see it as an improvement over ''A Court of Frost and Starlight'' due to having a plot with actual stakes, and enjoy the book's focus on fan-favorite Nesta, her journey of recovery and her relationship with Cassian. However, others have criticized how unpleasant many of the main characters act, especially towards Nesta, and the main villain being considered a weaker antagonist compared to Amarantha and the King of Hybern. The plotline involving Feyre's pregnancy also proved divisive; some enjoyed it and felt it was a great way to complete Nesta's arc, while others unfavorably compared it to ''Literature/BreakingDawn'' and felt it was disappointing and problematic due to Rhysand's behavior (which reminded some people of Tamlin), Nesta giving up her powers to save Feyre and her baby, and Feyre becoming rather passive and helpless.
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[[folder:Toys]]
* ''Toys/MonsterHigh'' has three distinct generations, and every generation after the first falls into this trope. [=G3=]'s quality in particular is hotly contested; while it's generally agreed that the increased diversity of the characters is done well, fans are quick to argue over whether the other aspects of it are just as good as, better than, or worse than [=G1=] was. Comparatively, while [=G2=] does have a few fans, it's widely considered an AudienceAlienatingEra.
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Not every viewer who has a problem with the original is a fan. Alphabetising, etc.


Sometimes there's a {{sequel}} that attempts to address complaints fans had with the original, or build upon the original's perceived strengths. Sometimes, in its attempt to do so, though, it may lose track of what made the original so great for many. If that happens, there may be [[BrokenBase a huge split in the fanbase]], with some fans saying that the sequel is [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel an excellent improvement]], with others saying that the sequel's improvements [[{{Sequelitis}} aren't worth the other changes made]]. This can result in large flame wars when someone who prefers the original argues with those who consider the sequel to be superior.

Sometimes, the company will try to fix things with the next installment in the series, only to make more friends and more enemies. This may lead to an UnpleasableFanbase.

to:

Sometimes there's a {{sequel}} that attempts to address complaints fans viewers had with the original, or build upon the original's perceived strengths. Sometimes, in its attempt to do so, though, it may lose track of what made the original so great for many. If that happens, there may be [[BrokenBase a huge split in the fanbase]], with some fans saying that the sequel is [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel an excellent improvement]], with others saying that the sequel's improvements [[{{Sequelitis}} aren't worth the other changes made]]. This can result in large flame wars when someone who prefers the original argues with those who consider the sequel to be superior.

Sometimes, the company will try to fix things with the next installment in the series, only to make more friends and more enemies. This may lead to an UnpleasableFanbase.
UnpleasableFanbase. Quite often, if they try to fix something, half the fanbase will [[AuthorsSavingThrow be glad that it was fixed]], while the other half will accuse the creators of PanderingToTheBase.



* Additionally, this is definitely not for sequels where [[EvenBetterSequel fans consider it better than the original]].

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* Additionally, this is definitely not for sequels where [[EvenBetterSequel fans consider it better than the original]].original]], unless there are also other fans who disagree.



* Please keep examples from degrading into [[FanHater complaining about the side]] [[ComplainingAboutPeopleNotLikingTheShow of the fanbase you disagree with]]. Give both sides a fair representation.

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* Please keep examples from degrading into [[FanHater complaining about about]] the side]] side [[ComplainingAboutPeopleNotLikingTheShow of the fanbase you disagree with]]. Give both sides a fair representation.



* Creator/StudioBones' [[AnimeFirst original productions]] also tend to have these. Case in point, ''Anime/EurekaSevenAO'' (and by extension, ''everything'' released after the [[Anime/EurekaSeven original series]]) and ''Anime/DarkerThanBlack: Gemini of the Meteor''. The former went on the chopping block for poor planning and mishandling of a lot of promising ideas, and betraying a lot of values of the original series, and actually went as far as to have a revised final episode to diminish backlash. The latter is considered to be on the wrong end of a case of ToughActToFollow and a drop in quality.



* As the sequel to the popular manga ''Manga/NegimaMagisterNegiMagi'', ''Manga/UQHolder'' has had [[ToughActToFollow a lot to live up to]]. Opinions on the series tend to vary on how much of a sequel it should actually be, since ''Negima'' ended [[LeftHanging very abruptly and did not resolve many of the major plotlines]] in a satisfying fashion. While ''Manga/UQHolder'' has addressed some of them, some people feel it should've been a brand new series, a more direct sequel, or is fine the way it is. Moreover, fans have felt at times the series relies far too much on its predecessor and refuses to stand on its own merits and thus allows ''Negima'' to overshadow its setting and characters.
* ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'':
** The ''Anime/RebuildOfEvangelion'' movies get this from fans of the original series. Some fans and critics praised the films (especially the first two) for making a more coherent and condensed plot, as well as avoiding the original series' penchant for gratuitous StockFootage, while others complained about the BigBudgetBeefUp leading to more action at the cost of character development. Many fans of Asuka were particularly annoyed at the second film for [[spoiler: [[DroppedABridgeOnHim putting her in a coma for the big finale]]]].
** The third movie is so polarizing that it caused another split among fans of the previous Rebuild films. Some praise the film for being the darkest and most daring entry in the franchise (it's the first entry not to be based off any existing arc of the original anime), while others criticized the ''massive'' ContinuityLockOut, [[TooBleakStoppedCaring the mean-spirited nature of the movie]], and the fact that most of the cast ended up being {{Demoted To Extra}}s.



* ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'':
** The ''Anime/RebuildOfEvangelion'' movies get this from fans of the original series. Some fans and critics praised the films (especially the first two) for making a more coherent and condensed plot, as well as avoiding the original series' penchant for gratuitous StockFootage, while others complained about the BigBudgetBeefUp leading to more action at the cost of character development. Many fans of Asuka were particularly annoyed at the second film for [[spoiler: [[DroppedABridgeOnHim putting her in a coma for the big finale]]]].
** The third movie is so polarizing that it caused another split among fans of the previous Rebuild films. Some praise the film for being the darkest and most daring entry in the franchise (it's the first entry not to be based off any existing arc of the original anime), while others criticized the ''massive'' ContinuityLockOut, [[TooBleakStoppedCaring the mean-spirited nature of the movie]], and the fact that most of the cast ended up being {{Demoted To Extra}}s.
* As the sequel to the popular manga ''Manga/NegimaMagisterNegiMagi'', ''Manga/UQHolder'' has had [[ToughActToFollow a lot to live up to]]. Opinions on the series tend to vary on how much of a sequel it should actually be, since ''Negima'' ended [[LeftHanging very abruptly and did not resolve many of the major plotlines]] in a satisfying fashion. While ''Manga/UQHolder'' has addressed some of them, some people feel it should've been a brand new series, a more direct sequel, or is fine the way it is. Moreover, fans have felt at times the series relies far too much on its predecessor and refuses to stand on its own merits and thus allows ''Negima'' to overshadow its setting and characters.

to:

* ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'':
**
Creator/StudioBones' [[AnimeFirst original productions]] also tend to have these. Case in point, ''Anime/EurekaSevenAO'' (and by extension, ''everything'' released after the [[Anime/EurekaSeven original series]]) and ''Anime/DarkerThanBlack: Gemini of the Meteor''. The ''Anime/RebuildOfEvangelion'' movies get this from fans former went on the chopping block for poor planning and mishandling of a lot of promising ideas, and betraying a lot of values of the original series. Some fans series, and critics praised the films (especially the first two) for making a more coherent and condensed plot, as well as avoiding the original series' penchant for gratuitous StockFootage, while others complained about the BigBudgetBeefUp leading to more action at the cost of character development. Many fans of Asuka were particularly annoyed at the second film for [[spoiler: [[DroppedABridgeOnHim putting her in a coma for the big finale]]]].
** The third movie is so polarizing that it caused another split among fans of the previous Rebuild films. Some praise the film for being the darkest and most daring entry in the franchise (it's the first entry not to be based off any existing arc of the original anime), while others criticized the ''massive'' ContinuityLockOut, [[TooBleakStoppedCaring the mean-spirited nature of the movie]], and the fact that most of the cast ended up being {{Demoted To Extra}}s.
* As the sequel to the popular manga ''Manga/NegimaMagisterNegiMagi'', ''Manga/UQHolder'' has had [[ToughActToFollow a lot to live up to]]. Opinions on the series tend to vary on how much of a sequel it should
actually be, since ''Negima'' ended [[LeftHanging very abruptly and did not resolve many of the major plotlines]] in a satisfying fashion. While ''Manga/UQHolder'' has addressed some of them, some people feel it should've been a brand new series, a more direct sequel, or is fine the way it is. Moreover, fans went as far as to have felt at times a revised final episode to diminish backlash. The latter is considered to be on the series relies far too much on its predecessor wrong end of a case of ToughActToFollow and refuses to stand on its own merits and thus allows ''Negima'' to overshadow its setting and characters.a drop in quality.



* ''WesternAnimation/IceAgeDawnOfTheDinosaurs'' is quite contested; some consider it an absolute disaster, while others call it the best of the series.
* The ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirls Equestria Girls]]'' series, namely the four films that precede the latter specials and shorts, are all over the place with this. The second installment, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsRainbowRocks Rainbow Rocks]]'', is often considered one of the best entries in the series, thanks to [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap its character development for Sunset Shimmer]] and interesting villains in the Sirens. The third, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsFriendshipGames Friendship Games]]'', has the most varied reactions; Some people view it as the best of the bunch, due to Sunset's continuing [[BreakoutCharacter Character Development]] and for formally introducing the human world's Twilight Sparkle. Others view it as the worst of the bunch due to the main antagonist, Principal Cinch, coming off as completely underwhelming in comparison to the Dazzlings, and for wasting the potential of the [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Shadowbolts]], who were built up to be the counterparts of the main cast, but ultimately the film proper gave them little focus, which irked the fans. Then there's yet another batch of people who say it's not as good as [[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsRainbowRocks Rainbow Rocks]] but better than the first movie. Meanwhile, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsLegendOfEverfree Legend of Everfree]]'' is often an afterthought, with no strong opinions surrounding it.



* ''Franchise/HowToTrainYourDragon'':
** Some people who dislike ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragon2'' criticize it for slower pacing and less ShowDontTell and heavier dialogue (or for killing off [[spoiler:Stoick the Vast]]). Others felt that it was a worthy sequel that explored dark themes such as war and death in a mature manner for a family film.
** ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragonTheHiddenWorld'' also gets this. Some find it an excellent GrandFinale to the ''How To Train Your Dragon'' saga that sent the characters off in a heartfelt way. Others find the movie's themes to be [[BrokenAesop completely disconnected from all installments of the series before it]] (in particular feeling like the movie goes out of its way to justify [[spoiler:Hiccup and Toothless parting ways and everyone releasing their dragons to go to the Hidden World with Toothless and his Light Fury mate]] at the end of the movie to the point of throwing continuity with and characterizations/character development in/over the first two movies and the various TV shows/specials out the window), and that the ending was unnecessary and [[{{Asspull}} nonsensical]] (not to mention [[EsotericHappyEnding potentially worrying]] [[FridgeHorror if the implications of said ending are taken into account]]).
* ''WesternAnimation/IceAgeDawnOfTheDinosaurs'' is quite contested; some consider it an absolute disaster, while others call it the best of the series.



* ''WesternAnimation/KungFuPanda3'' is either a good movie, [[FirstInstallmentWins but not as good as the first two]], or an EvenBetterSequel. That said, you'll be hard-pressed to find any fans that outright disliked it.
* The ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirls Equestria Girls]]'' series, namely the four films that precede the latter specials and shorts, are all over the place with this. The second installment, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsRainbowRocks Rainbow Rocks]]'', is often considered one of the best entries in the series, thanks to [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap its character development for Sunset Shimmer]] and interesting villains in the Sirens. The third, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsFriendshipGames Friendship Games]]'', has the most varied reactions; Some people view it as the best of the bunch, due to Sunset's continuing [[BreakoutCharacter character development]] and for formally introducing the human world's Twilight Sparkle. Others view it as the worst of the bunch due to the main antagonist, Principal Cinch, coming off as completely underwhelming in comparison to the Dazzlings, and for wasting the potential of the [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Shadowbolts]], who were built up to be the counterparts of the main cast, but ultimately the film proper gave them little focus, which irked the fans. Then there's yet another batch of people who say it's not as good as [[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsRainbowRocks Rainbow Rocks]] but better than the first movie. Meanwhile, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsLegendOfEverfree Legend of Everfree]]'' is often an afterthought, with no strong opinions surrounding it.



* ''WesternAnimation/TheSpongeBobMovieSpongeOutOfWater'', depending on whom you ask, it's either [[EvenBetterSequel better than]] ''WesternAnimation/TheSpongeBobSquarePantsMovie'', [[{{Sequelitis}} worse than]] ''[[{{Sequelitis}} The [=SpongeBob=] [=SquarePants=] Movie]]'', or good, but not as good as ''The [=SpongeBob=] [=SquarePants=] Movie''. Most agree it's an improvement over [[AudienceAlienatingEra seasons 6 through 8]] of [[WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants the show]], though. However, it takes place before the events of the first movie.
* The second and third ''WesternAnimation/TheSwanPrincess'' films. On the one hand, they're direct-to-video and feature almost none of the original voice cast (save for Odette and Puffin). But on the other, the plots are more original and interesting than many of the Disney DTV sequels. The second devotes a lot of screen time to the entertaining Queen Uberta, while the third features a very charismatic villain and has a [[DarkerAndEdgier surprisingly dark]] climax. Plus the animation is still pretty consistent across all three films. The latter two CGI sequels on the other hand...
* ''WesternAnimation/{{TMNT}}'' from 2007, which is a sequel to the preceding live-action films or at least the first one according to WordOfGod, gets a largely middle of the road response. Some finding it to be a dull entry with uninspired original villains that steal the spotlight from the Foot Clan, and others seeing it as a return to form to the tone of the original after the two goofier live-action sequels with some great action and praise in particular for the sub-plot concerning the rivalry between Leonardo and Raphael that comes to a head in this film.



* ''Franchise/HowToTrainYourDragon'':
** Some people who dislike ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragon2'' criticize it for slower pacing and less ShowDontTell and heavier dialogue. Others felt that it was a worthy sequel that explored dark themes such as war and death in a mature manner for a family film.
** ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragonTheHiddenWorld'' also gets this. Some find it an excellent GrandFinale to the ''How To Train Your Dragon'' saga that sent the characters off in a heartfelt way. Others find the movie's themes to be [[BrokenAesop completely disconnected from all installments of the series before it]] (in particular feeling like the movie goes out of its way to justify [[spoiler:Hiccup and Toothless parting ways and everyone releasing their dragons to go to the Hidden World with Toothless and his Light Fury mate]] at the end of the movie to the point of throwing continuity with and characterizations/character development in/over the first two movies and the various TV shows/specials out the window), and that the ending was unnecessary and [[{{Asspull}} nonsensical]] (not to mention [[EsotericHappyEnding potentially worrying]] [[FridgeHorror if the implications of said ending are taken into account]]).
* '' WesternAnimation/KungFuPanda3'' is either a good movie, [[FirstInstallmentWins but not as good as the first two]], or an EvenBetterSequel. That said, you'll be hard-pressed to find any fans that outright disliked it.
* ''WesternAnimation/{{TMNT}}'' from 2007, which is a sequel to the preceding live-action films or at least the first one according to WordOfGod, gets a largely middle of the road response. Some finding it to be a dull entry with uninspired original villains that steal the spotlight from the Foot Clan, and others seeing it as a return to form to the tone of the original after the two goofier live-action sequels with some great action and praise in particular for the sub-plot concerning the rivalry between Leonardo and Raphael that comes to a head in this film.
* ''WesternAnimation/TheSpongeBobMovieSpongeOutOfWater'', depending on whom you ask, it's either [[EvenBetterSequel better than]] ''WesternAnimation/TheSpongeBobSquarePantsMovie'', [[{{Sequelitis}} worse than]] ''[[{{Sequelitis}} The [=SpongeBob=] [=SquarePants=] Movie]]'', or good, but not as good as ''The [=SpongeBob=] [=SquarePants=] Movie''. Most agree it's an improvement over [[AudienceAlienatingEra seasons 6 through 8]] of [[WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants the show]], though. However, it takes place before the events of the first movie.
* The second and third ''WesternAnimation/TheSwanPrincess'' films. On the one hand, they're direct-to-video and feature almost none of the original voice cast (save for Odette and Puffin). But on the other, the plots are more original and interesting than many of the Disney DTV sequels. The second devotes a lot of screen time to the entertaining Queen Uberta, while the third features a very charismatic villain and has a [[DarkerAndEdgier surprisingly dark]] climax. Plus the animation is still pretty consistent across all three films. The latter two CGI sequels on the other hand...



* Creator/LarryNiven had originally intended ''Literature/{{Ringworld}}'' to be a one-off novel, but many fans wrote in to point out scientific or practical errors such as the fact that the Ringworld is unstable and the question of why its builders didn't build lots of small rings (a la [[Creator/IainBanks Iain M. Banks]]'s ''[[Literature/TheCulture Culture]]'' novels) instead, which would be much easier to defend. Niven decided to write ''Literature/TheRingworldEngineers'' to address these questions. Whether this addition improved the Ringworld or merely diluted its premise is a matter of debate among fans.



* Creator/LarryNiven had originally intended ''Literature/{{Ringworld}}'' to be a one-off novel, but many fans wrote in to point out scientific or practical errors such as the fact that the Ringworld is unstable and the question of why its builders didn't build lots of small rings (a la [[Creator/IainBanks Iain M. Banks]]'s ''[[Literature/TheCulture Culture]]'' novels) instead, which would be much easier to defend. Niven decided to write ''Literature/TheRingworldEngineers'' to address these questions. Whether this addition improved the Ringworld or merely diluted its premise is a matter of debate among fans.



* ''Literature/TheTwilightSaga'''s fourth book (and the final one in the main series) ''Literature/BreakingDawn'' is divisive amongst fans. The Amazon page gives it an average 3-star rating -- because most of the reviews are either 5 stars or 1 star. In one camp, people thought it was a satisfying conclusion to the series; [[EverybodyLives all the main characters survive]] and live HappilyEverAfter, the LoveTriangle is resolved with no hurt feelings, all [[AudienceSurrogate Bella]]'s dreams come true and readers finally get to see what it's like to become a vampire in the ''Twilight'' universe, which had been hyped since the first book. Some readers also enjoyed the unexpected {{plot twist}}s, such as [[spoiler: Bella [[BabiesEverAfter getting pregnant]] with a {{dhampir}}]], especially as it helps [[WorldBuilding expand the lore]]. In the other camp, readers criticised ''Breaking Dawn'' for having ''very'' slow pacing in a book that's already a {{doorstopper}}, the lack of a climactic battle, certain plot threads being [[LeftHanging left dangling]] while others are tied up just a little too neatly, [[CreatorsPet Renesmee]] [[SpotlightStealingSquad hijacking the plot]], Bella becoming (in their view) an InvincibleHero and the twists relying on gaping {{plot hole}}s and/or {{retcon}}s. Team [[spoiler:Jacob]] were particularly unhappy with the outcome given Bella chooses [[spoiler:Edward]], as were those that shipped [[spoiler:Jacob and Leah]].



* ''Literature/TheTwilightSaga'''s fourth book (and the final one in the main series) ''Literature/BreakingDawn'' is divisive amongst fans. The Amazon page gives it an average 3-star rating -- because most of the reviews are either 5 stars or 1 star. In one camp, people thought it was a satisfying conclusion to the series; [[EverybodyLives all the main characters survive]] and live HappilyEverAfter, the LoveTriangle is resolved with no hurt feelings, all [[AudienceSurrogate Bella]]'s dreams come true and readers finally get to see what it's like to become a vampire in the ''Twilight'' universe, which had been hyped since the first book. Some readers also enjoyed the unexpected {{plot twist}}s, such as [[spoiler: Bella [[BabiesEverAfter getting pregnant]] with a {{dhampir}}]], especially as it helps [[WorldBuilding expand the lore]]. In the other camp, readers criticised ''Breaking Dawn'' for having ''very'' slow pacing in a book that's already a {{doorstopper}}, the lack of a climactic battle, certain plot threads being [[LeftHanging left dangling]] while others are tied up just a little too neatly, [[CreatorsPet Renesmee]] [[SpotlightStealingSquad hijacking the plot]], Bella becoming (in their view) an InvincibleHero and the twists relying on gaping {{plot hole}}s and/or {{retcon}}s. Team [[spoiler:Jacob]] were particularly unhappy with the outcome given Bella chooses [[spoiler:Edward]], as were those that shipped [[spoiler:Jacob and Leah]].



* ''Series/NirvanaInFire2'' for ''Series/NirvanaInFire''. The one thing all viewers agree on is [[{{Sequelitis}} it's not as good as the original]]. Opinion is split between whether it's a good but underwhelming sequel or a complete disaster.



* ''Series/KamenRiderDecade'' is either a celebration of what makes ''Franchise/KamenRider'' great with an interesting MythArc story, or what could've been a great ReunionShow ruined by the use of {{Suspiciously Similar Substitute}}s and the few characters who ''did'' return being [[TheWorfEffect weakened to make Decade look stronger]]. One thing that fans ''will'' agree on is that the show should've had more than 2 episodes per arc - one arc in particular that needed more time was the "World of [[Series/KamenRider555 Faiz]]" arc, which had a very interesting idea, "Orphnochs can't go to school"...but said arc forgot about that idea due to it also being the arc that introduced the [[SixthRanger Secondary Rider]], [[PhantomThief DiEnd]][[note]]granted, the arc's set up was already very similar to that of the "World of [[Series/KamenRiderKiva Kiva]]" arc earlier in the show, but still[[/note]]. And then there's the "World of [[Series/KamenRiderDenO Den-O]]" arc, which could've served as a PostScriptSeason for ''[=Den-O=]'', as it was one of two arcs where Decade visited the actual world of said show (as opposed to [[AlternateUniverse an A.R. version]])[[note]]the other arc that Decade visits the actual world of being the "[[{{Crossover}} World of]] [[Series/SamuraiSentaiShinkenger Shinkenger]]" arc[[/note]], but it instead became a PoorlyDisguisedPilot for the ''Chou [=Den-O=]'' movies.
* ''Series/NirvanaInFire2'' for ''Series/NirvanaInFire''. The one thing all viewers agree on is [[{{Sequelitis}} it's not as good as the original]]. Opinion is split between whether it's a good but underwhelming sequel or a complete disaster.
* Franchise/StargateVerse:
** ''Series/StargateAtlantis''. Many people thought it was just copying the ''Deep Space Nine'' model and you'll find frequent comparisons to those two series. On the other hand, others thought it was a decent series that did well to separate itself from the original with a new cast of characters and setting as well as changes in plot formulas that nonetheless stayed true to the spirit of the original.
** ''Series/StargateUniverse''. In addition to the complaints about simply ripping off Voyager (after ripping off Deep Space Nine through Atlantis), the other major argument mirrors the ''Battlestar Galactica'' remake: was it an honest attempt to breathe new life into a franchise that had been going on for a dozen or so years on largely the same formula uninterrupted, or was it a botched attempt at making it DarkerAndEdgier that went straight into the series' AudienceAlienatingEra and thus became the FranchiseKiller, all in an attempt to [[FollowTheLeader mine the success]] of ''Battlestar Galactica''?



** ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'' is regarded by many fans as being a bland continuation of ''The Next Generation'' in all but name, all the while [[{{Flanderization}} over-exaggerating]] the {{technobabble}} that people had come to associate with ''Trek''. Others think it was an enjoyable series that, while flawed, still delivered on decent action plots and interesting concepts. Many fans also cite ExecutiveMeddling as a reason for the show losing momentum and going all over the place later into its run.
** ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' was done primarily because fans had complained about the stationary nature of ''Deep Space Nine'' and the constant {{technobabble}} of ''Voyager''. Setting it in an earlier time period allowed [[HyperspaceIsAScaryPlace the scary nature of space travel]] to be more constant and the technology wasn't always the savior. There were fans who loved it from the start, fans who ''hated'' it from the start, and a third group who felt it had a hard time at first, but found its voice just before it was canceled (with a further subdivision based on whether the [[GrowingTheBeard beard was grown]] in season 3 or 4).
** ''Series/StarTrekDiscovery'' ran into this as soon as details about the series were announced, ranging from the decision to set it ten years [[{{Interquel}} prior to the Original Series]], to the [[Film/StarTrek2009 Abrams-esque]] redesigns of the Starfleet uniforms, the Klingons, the ships and other elements, and the decision to make the show much more serialized as well as DarkerAndEdgier, as opposed to the LighterAndSofter episodic format that had predominated (and [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks grown tired]]) on both ''Voyager'' and ''Enterprise''. If anything, the severity and vehemence of the BrokenBase has only ''intensified'' after the first season began airing, with a large {{hatedom}} passionately dedicated to savaging everything about ''Discovery'' for not immediately living up to their ideas about "what a ''Trek'' series [[PanderingToTheBase should be]]".
* Franchise/StargateVerse:
** ''Series/StargateAtlantis''. Many people thought it was just copying the ''Deep Space Nine'' model and you'll find frequent comparisons to those two series. On the other hand, others thought it was a decent series that did well to separate itself from the original with a new cast of characters and setting as well as changes in plot formulas that nonetheless stayed true to the spirit of the original.
** ''Series/StargateUniverse''. In addition to the complaints about simply ripping off Voyager (after ripping off Deep Space Nine through Atlantis), the other major argument mirrors the ''Battlestar Galactica'' remake: was it an honest attempt to breathe new life into a franchise that had been going on for a dozen or so years on largely the same formula uninterrupted, or was it a botched attempt at making it DarkerAndEdgier that went straight into the series' AudienceAlienatingEra and thus became the FranchiseKiller, all in an attempt to [[FollowTheLeader mine the success]] of ''Battlestar Galactica''?
* ''Series/KamenRiderDecade'' is either a celebration of what makes ''Franchise/KamenRider'' great with an interesting MythArc story, or what could've been a great ReunionShow ruined by the use of {{Suspiciously Similar Substitute}}s and the few characters who ''did'' return being [[TheWorfEffect weakened to make Decade look stronger]]. One thing that fans ''will'' agree on is that the show should've had more than 2 episodes per arc - one arc in particular that needed more time was the "World of [[Series/KamenRider555 Faiz]]" arc, which had a very interesting idea, "Orphnochs can't go to school"...but said arc forgot about that idea due to it also being the arc that introduced the [[SixthRanger Secondary Rider]], [[PhantomThief DiEnd]][[note]]granted, the arc's set up was already very similar to that of the "World of [[Series/KamenRiderKiva Kiva]]" arc earlier in the show, but still[[/note]]. And then there's the "World of [[Series/KamenRiderDenO Den-O]]" arc, which could've served as a PostScriptSeason for ''[=Den-O=]'', as it was one of two arcs where Decade visited the actual world of said show (as opposed to [[AlternateUniverse an A.R. version]])[[note]]the other arc that Decade visits the actual world of being the "[[{{Crossover}} World of]] [[Series/SamuraiSentaiShinkenger Shinkenger]]" arc[[/note]], but it instead became a PoorlyDisguisedPilot for the ''Chou [=Den-O=]'' movies.

to:

** ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'' is regarded by many fans as being a bland continuation of ''The Next Generation'' in all but name, all the while [[{{Flanderization}} over-exaggerating]] the {{technobabble}} that people had come to associate with ''Trek''.''Trek'' (or they thought Captain Janeway was too morally-ambiguous, Neelix was too goofy, and/or Chakotay was too much of a MagicalNativeAmerican). Others think it was an enjoyable series that, while flawed, still delivered on decent action plots and interesting concepts. Many fans also cite ExecutiveMeddling as a reason for the show losing momentum and going all over the place later into its run.
** ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' was done primarily because fans had complained about the stationary nature of ''Deep Space Nine'' and the constant {{technobabble}} of ''Voyager''. Setting it in an earlier time period allowed [[HyperspaceIsAScaryPlace the scary nature of space travel]] to be more constant and the technology wasn't always the savior. There were fans who loved it from the start, fans who ''hated'' it from the start, start (usually due to the excessive {{fanservice}} and poorly-received episodes like "A Night in Sickbay" and "Dear Doctor"), and a third group who felt it had a hard time at first, but found its voice just before it was canceled (with a further subdivision based on whether the [[GrowingTheBeard beard was grown]] in season 3 or 4).
** ''Series/StarTrekDiscovery'' ran into this as soon as details about the series were announced, ranging from the decision to set it ten years [[{{Interquel}} prior to the Original Series]], to the [[Film/StarTrek2009 Abrams-esque]] redesigns of the Starfleet uniforms, the Klingons, the ships and other elements, and the decision to make the show much more serialized as well as DarkerAndEdgier, as opposed to the LighterAndSofter episodic format that had predominated (and [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks grown tired]]) on both ''Voyager'' and ''Enterprise''. ''Enterprise'' (and [[RuderAndCruder adding more and stronger profanity]]). If anything, the severity and vehemence of the BrokenBase has only ''intensified'' after the first season began airing, with a large {{hatedom}} passionately dedicated to savaging everything about ''Discovery'' for not immediately living up to their ideas about "what a ''Trek'' series [[PanderingToTheBase should be]]".
* Franchise/StargateVerse:
** ''Series/StargateAtlantis''. Many people thought it was just copying the ''Deep Space Nine'' model and you'll find frequent comparisons to those two series. On the other hand, others thought it was a decent series that did well to separate itself from the original with a new cast of characters and setting as well as changes in plot formulas that nonetheless stayed true to the spirit of the original.
** ''Series/StargateUniverse''. In addition to the complaints about simply ripping off Voyager (after ripping off Deep Space Nine through Atlantis), the other major argument mirrors the ''Battlestar Galactica'' remake: was it an honest attempt to breathe new life into a franchise that had been going on for a dozen or so years on largely the same formula uninterrupted, or was it a botched attempt at making it DarkerAndEdgier that went straight into the series' AudienceAlienatingEra and thus became the FranchiseKiller, all in an attempt to [[FollowTheLeader mine the success]] of ''Battlestar Galactica''?
* ''Series/KamenRiderDecade'' is either a celebration of what makes ''Franchise/KamenRider'' great with an interesting MythArc story, or what could've been a great ReunionShow ruined by the use of {{Suspiciously Similar Substitute}}s and the few characters who ''did'' return being [[TheWorfEffect weakened to make Decade look stronger]]. One thing that fans ''will'' agree on is that the show should've had more than 2 episodes per arc - one arc in particular that needed more time was the "World of [[Series/KamenRider555 Faiz]]" arc, which had a very interesting idea, "Orphnochs can't go to school"...but said arc forgot about that idea due to it also being the arc that introduced the [[SixthRanger Secondary Rider]], [[PhantomThief DiEnd]][[note]]granted, the arc's set up was already very similar to that of the "World of [[Series/KamenRiderKiva Kiva]]" arc earlier in the show, but still[[/note]]. And then there's the "World of [[Series/KamenRiderDenO Den-O]]" arc, which could've served as a PostScriptSeason for ''[=Den-O=]'', as it was one of two arcs where Decade visited the actual world of said show (as opposed to [[AlternateUniverse an A.R. version]])[[note]]the other arc that Decade visits the actual world of being the "[[{{Crossover}} World of]] [[Series/SamuraiSentaiShinkenger Shinkenger]]" arc[[/note]], but it instead became a PoorlyDisguisedPilot for the ''Chou [=Den-O=]'' movies.
be]]".



* All of Music/{{Eminem}}'s albums after ''Music/TheMarshallMathersLP'' are debated bitterly by critics, ranging from a mild but notable debate over whether ''Music/TheEminemShow'' is too [[KinderAndCleaner uncontroversial and commercial]] or his great masterwork, to a much nastier debate over the value of his post-overdose material.
** It's common for fans to call ''Music/{{Encore}}'' the worst album ever, or at least have some extremely negative words for the [[AlbumFiller run of stupid comedy songs]] in the middle. However, a few people and even professional critics find it better than ''The Eminem Show'', due to it being much funnier and more [[SelfDeprecation self-deprecating]], and with a heavily Dre-driven production.
** ''Relapse'' has a debate over whether it's nonsensical and unfunny [[ExploitationFilm sensationalism]] where Eminem raps garbage over unfashionable beats in racist accents about [[TooBleakStoppedCaring depressing murder fantasies]], or a CultClassic ConceptAlbum which uses a SlasherMovie allegory to [[AddictionSong explore the misery of his drug addiction]], employs his career-best beat-riding, and is a highlight of his discography (or even, for some, his only truly great album - Music/TylerTheCreator has suggested as much).
** ''Recovery'' also creates very strong reactions. It served as Eminem's CareerResurrection, being perceived at the time as a return to his glory days that cemented his place in the rap pantheon, and it's still common to see people citing it as their favourite Eminem album, praising Eminem's new [[TookALevelInKindness mature and empathetic persona]], his fusion of "white-trash" genres like SouthernRock and CountryMusic with hip-hop, and and claiming its loving, emotional content got them through hard times. It's also common to see people considering it his worst album, a sickly one-eighty on his older and more interesting heel persona in which his {{Glurge}}y SelfEmpowermentAnthem lyrical content is undermined by [[CluelessAesop grossout humour]], [[HurricaneOfPuns groanworthy puns]] and [[RadioFriendliness radio-bait pop production]]. Opinions are also split on whether his new hyper-aggressive, drum-solo-like rhythmic style is awesome and dramatic, or robotic and grating. A small but loud group hate the ''Recovery'' style ''so much'' that they contrived a conspiracy theory that the Eminem of ''Recovery'' onward is a body double to replace the original, who died of his drug overdose or was offed at some point after ''The Re-Up''.
** Probably the most polarising album is ''The Marshall Mathers LP 2'', which, depending on who you ask, is a personal, deep, and [[ContinuityNod continuity-referencing]] [[RockIsAuthenticPopIsShallow rock album]] displaying his stylistic versatility and [[TookALevelInKindness improved personality]], exploring wacky, retro and innovative pop and hip-hop sounds and demonstrating the greatest technical rapping of his career, or a pandering, shallow, overtechnical and inconsistent GoodIsBoring [[RockIsAuthenticPopIsShallow pop album]] by a relic [[AgeInappropriateDress dressing like a teenager in his forties]] who is out-of-step with modern hip-hop ''and'' moral sensibilities, still saying disgusting homophobic and misogynistic slurs even though his [[RatedGForGangsta shock value]] disappeared long ago. It's not uncommon to find people who think ''[=MMLP2=]'' is up there with, or better than, his Persona Trilogy, and it's also not uncommon to find people considering it completely unlistenable. Some say it is [[EvenBetterSequel better than the first]] ''LP'' -- others view it as a stain on Eminem's masterpiece.
** Due to Eminem's... polarising personality, it's not uncommon for both the case for worship and prosecution to be made in the ''same review''. "Eminem's best album since ''Music/TheEminemShow'', and the rapping is unbelievable, but his personality and aesthetic is extremely annoying and the rapping is so good that it becomes horrible" has been a common trope to see in reviews of his work since ''Relapse'', especially ''Revival'', ''Kamikaze'' and ''Music To Be Murdered By''.
%%* Every work done by Mägo de Oz after ''Gaia: Epílogo''.



* Every work done by Mägo de Oz after ''Gaia: Epílogo''.
* Music/{{NWA}}'s final album, ''[=Niggaz4life=]'' is this. Depending on who you ask, it is either an awesome, fun gangsta rap classic with far better production value than ''Straight Outta Compton'' and proof that the group did just fine without Ice Cube, or a huge step down from ''Straight Outta Compton'' that is hurt by Ice Cube's absence, and a {{Flanderization}} of the band that tries way too hard to be shocking for its own good.



* Music/{{NWA}}'s final album, ''[=Niggaz4life=]'' is this. Depending on who you ask, it is either an awesome, fun gangsta rap classic with far better production value than ''Straight Outta Compton'' and proof that the group did just fine without Ice Cube, or a huge step down from ''Straight Outta Compton'' that is hurt by Ice Cube's absence, and a {{Flanderization}} of the band that tries way too hard to be shocking for its own good.



* All of Music/{{Eminem}}'s albums after ''Music/TheMarshallMathersLP'' are debated bitterly by critics, ranging from a mild but notable debate over whether ''Music/TheEminemShow'' is too [[KinderAndCleaner uncontroversial and commercial]] or his great masterwork, to a much nastier debate over the value of his post-overdose material.
** It's common for fans to call ''Music/{{Encore}}'' the worst album ever, or at least have some extremely negative words for the [[AlbumFiller run of stupid comedy songs]] in the middle. However, a few people and even professional critics find it better than ''The Eminem Show'', due to it being much funnier and more [[SelfDeprecation self-deprecating]], and with a heavily Dre-driven production.
** ''Relapse'' has a debate over whether it's nonsensical and unfunny [[ExploitationFilm sensationalism]] where Eminem raps garbage over unfashionable beats in racist accents about [[TooBleakStoppedCaring depressing murder fantasies]], or a CultClassic ConceptAlbum which uses a SlasherMovie allegory to [[AddictionSong explore the misery of his drug addiction]], employs his career-best beat-riding, and is a highlight of his discography (or even, for some, his only truly great album - Music/TylerTheCreator has suggested as much).
** ''Recovery'' also creates very strong reactions. It served as Eminem's CareerResurrection, being perceived at the time as a return to his glory days that cemented his place in the rap pantheon, and it's still common to see people citing it as their favourite Eminem album, praising Eminem's new [[TookALevelInKindness mature and empathetic persona]], his fusion of "white-trash" genres like SouthernRock and CountryMusic with hip-hop, and and claiming its loving, emotional content got them through hard times. It's also common to see people considering it his worst album, a sickly one-eighty on his older and more interesting heel persona in which his {{Glurge}}y SelfEmpowermentAnthem lyrical content is undermined by [[CluelessAesop grossout humour]], [[HurricaneOfPuns groanworthy puns]] and [[RadioFriendliness radio-bait pop production]]. Opinions are also split on whether his new hyper-aggressive, drum-solo-like rhythmic style is awesome and dramatic, or robotic and grating. A small but loud group hate the ''Recovery'' style ''so much'' that they contrived a conspiracy theory that the Eminem of ''Recovery'' onward is a body double to replace the original, who died of his drug overdose or was offed at some point after ''The Re-Up''.
** Probably the most polarising album is ''The Marshall Mathers LP 2'', which, depending on who you ask, is a personal, deep, and [[ContinuityNod continuity-referencing]] [[RockIsAuthenticPopIsShallow rock album]] displaying his stylistic versatility and [[TookALevelInKindness improved personality]], exploring wacky, retro and innovative pop and hip-hop sounds and demonstrating the greatest technical rapping of his career, or a pandering, shallow, overtechnical and inconsistent GoodIsBoring [[RockIsAuthenticPopIsShallow pop album]] by a relic [[AgeInappropriateDress dressing like a teenager in his forties]] who is out-of-step with modern hip-hop ''and'' moral sensibilities, still saying disgusting homophobic and misogynistic slurs even though his [[RatedGForGangsta shock value]] disappeared long ago. It's not uncommon to find people who think ''[=MMLP2=]'' is up there with, or better than, his Persona Trilogy, and it's also not uncommon to find people considering it completely unlistenable. Some say it is [[EvenBetterSequel better than the first]] ''LP'' -- others view it as a stain on Eminem's masterpiece.
** Due to Eminem's... polarising personality, it's not uncommon for both the case for worship and prosecution to be made in the ''same review''. "Eminem's best album since ''Music/TheEminemShow'', and the rapping is unbelievable, but his personality and aesthetic is extremely annoying and the rapping is so good that it becomes horrible" has been a common trope to see in reviews of his work since ''Relapse'', especially ''Revival'', ''Kamikaze'' and ''Music To Be Murdered By''.



* ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'''s been feeling this one ever since they introduced the Jihad storyline and the Dark Age, as well as the click-based figure sets. Does the click system streamline the often slow process of play of the original tabletop game while providing fully colored, highly detailed models that represent the units they're supposed to, or does it deviate too far from the HumongousMecha-dominated setting of the original Succession Wars and introduce a confusing set of inconsistent and easily exploited rules while also removing the unit customization that was central to a player's preparation? While the events of the Jihad and Dark Age are accepted as canon, the acceptance of the click-base game as a sequel to the original wargame is something fans have disagreed on heatedly for some time. A few fans have been shown to TakeAThirdOption and use the more visually appealing ''Mechwarrior Dark Age'' models to play classic ''Battletech''.



* ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'''s been feeling this one ever since they introduced the Jihad storyline and the Dark Age, as well as the click-based figure sets. Does the click system streamline the often slow process of play of the original tabletop game while providing fully colored, highly detailed models that represent the units they're supposed to, or does it deviate too far from the HumongousMecha-dominated setting of the original Succession Wars and introduce a confusing set of inconsistent and easily exploited rules while also removing the unit customization that was central to a player's preparation? While the events of the Jihad and Dark Age are accepted as canon, the acceptance of the click-base game as a sequel to the original wargame is something fans have disagreed on heatedly for some time. A few fans have been shown to TakeAThirdOption and use the more visually appealing ''Mechwarrior Dark Age'' models to play classic ''Battletech''.



* Everyone agrees that ''Theatre/HarryPotterAndTheCursedChild'', for not being written by the series' creator, "feels like fanfic" and should be at most be given a BroadStrokes treatment. But does it work as a sequel for its wonderful emotional beats and bringing back all their old nostalgia, or is it a worthless ClicheStorm rife with convoluted plots and questionable characterization?



* Everyone agrees that ''Theatre/HarryPotterAndTheCursedChild'', for not being written by the series' creator, "feels like fanfic" and should be at most be given a BroadStrokes treatment. But does it work as a sequel for its wonderful emotional beats and bringing back all their old nostalgia, or is it a worthless ClicheStorm rife with convoluted plots and questionable characterization?


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* ''WesternAnimation/AllGrownUp'' is divisive among ''WesternAnimation/{{Rugrats}}'' fans -- some like seeing the main characters as preteens and like how Angelica is less of a brat, while others think the show is boring and too similar to shows like ''WesternAnimation/AsToldByGinger''. The changes to Kimi are also a point of debate -- some think she's better than she was in ''Rugrats'', while others think that turning such a bubbly, happy character into a grumpy DeadpanSnarker was just annoying.


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* ''WesternAnimation/DanielTigersNeighborhood'', a sequel series to ''Series/MisterRogersNeighborhood'', has its fans, who say that the show is cute and it's nice that a new generation is getting a ''Mister Rogers''-style show, and its detractors, who either say that writing a sequel at all was wrong, or that it should have been live-action and/or slower paced, that the main characters are annoying, and/or that [[AdapatationalNiceGuy Lady Elaine was too different]].


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* ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies2021'': Some people think the show is too childish and too dissimilar to ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies1984'', while others think that the show is cute and that its childishness makes sense because it's a kids' show.


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* ''Franchise/ScoobyDoo'':
** ''WesternAnimation/APupNamedScoobyDoo'': Some viewers like it for the {{running gag}}s such as Red Herring and "Velma said jinkies!", while others dislike it for being even more cartoonish than the original, because they feel the SpinoffBabies trope is a cliche, or because they feel like some episodes like "Scooby Dude" were too {{anvilicious}}.
** ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooMysteryIncorporated'': Some people like how it was grittier than the other ''Scooby-Doo'' cartoons and gave the characters flaws, while others thought the show was ''too'' dark and the characters ''too'' flawed. Fred and Daphne, and Shaggy and Velma, are [[AdaptationalRelationshipOverhaul now together]] and some viewers (usually [[{{Shipping}} shippers]]) like this, while others thinks it makes the show too emotional (especially with Shaggy and Velma, since it often leads to [[GreenEyedMonster Scooby getting jealous]]). In addition, Velma is [[AdaptationalJerkass made into]] an InsufferableGenius, and some viewers think this is funny, while others think it's obnoxious.


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* ''WesternAnimation/Rugrats2020'': Some people think that it's good to bring the show back, while others hate it for the art style, [[AdaptationPersonalityChange making Grandpa Lou zen]], and/or making Betty a stereotypical ButchLesbian and in the process [[AdaptedOut adapting out Howard]].

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* If it's a series of ''Franchise/{{Digimon}}'' that's not ''Anime/DigimonAdventure'', it qualifies. Although there are plenty who say ''Anime/DigimonTamers'' should fall under EvenBetterSequel (disregarding ''Adventure''[='=]s second season.)
** The most contested is easily ''Anime/DigimonFrontier'' for its significant departure from the {{Mon}}s premise; ''Anime/DigimonFusion'' also gets this for similar reasons, though it's generally regarded higher than ''Frontier''. ''Anime/DigimonTamers'' and ''Anime/DigimonDataSquad'' get it for being DarkerAndEdgier (and in ''Tamers'''s case, [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks not being another direct sequel]] to ''Adventure''), and ''Anime/DigimonAdventure02'' tends to get criticised under ItsTheSameNowItSucks. All of them have their supporters, especially ''02'' and ''Tamers''; BrokenBase fun ensues.
** Adding another layer to the ''02'' BrokenBase comes the fact that most of the cast from ''Adventure'' (that is, anyone who's not T.K. or Kari, or their respective 'mons) got DemotedToExtra. Although ''02'' had only become officially cracked at the epilogue. No matter who you were you had something to complain about the epilogue.

to:

* If it's a series of ''Franchise/{{Digimon}}'' that's not ''Anime/DigimonAdventure'', it qualifies. Although there are plenty who say ''Anime/DigimonTamers'' should fall under EvenBetterSequel (disregarding ''Adventure''[='=]s second season.)
series).
** The most contested is easily ''Anime/DigimonFrontier'' for is the most highly contested due to its significant departure from the {{Mon}}s premise; ''Anime/DigimonFusion'' also gets this for similar reasons, though it's generally regarded higher than ''Frontier''. ''Anime/DigimonTamers'' and ''Anime/DigimonDataSquad'' get it for being DarkerAndEdgier (and in ''Tamers'''s case, [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks not being another direct sequel]] to ''Adventure''), and ''Anime/DigimonAdventure02'' tends to get criticised under ItsTheSameNowItSucks. All of them have their supporters, especially ''02'' and ''Tamers''; BrokenBase fun ensues.
** Adding another layer to the ''02'' BrokenBase comes the fact that most of the cast from ''Adventure'' (that is, anyone who's not T.K. or Kari, or their respective 'mons) got DemotedToExtra. Although ''02'' had only become officially cracked at the epilogue. No matter who you were were, you had something to complain about the epilogue.



*** Fans are still divided between those that think ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKing2SimbasPride'' is decent in its own right and those that remain unhappy that Disney didn’t use the book series spin-off from the original film as its basis.
*** Disney's ''Franchise/WinnieThePooh'' sequels are often considered the most worthy contenders to their original film, namely ''WesternAnimation/TheManyAdventuresOfWinnieThePooh''. Even some of the Disneytoon Studios' sequels have gained a cult following with fans of the franchise. However many still prefer the first film due to more closely adapting the original novels and their laid back, comedic but still sentimental tone, while some appreciate the sequels for taking on more ambitious, DarkerAndEdgier original story lines that allow for deeper CharacterDevelopment (particularly cases such as ''WesternAnimation/PoohsGrandAdventure'' and ''WesternAnimation/TheTiggerMovie''). The character focus is also a point of contention, since while the original film focuses more on the same primary cast as the novels, the later films often give limelight to some of the more minor characters such as Roo while placing mainstays such as Owl and Christopher Robin OutOfFocus.

to:

*** Fans are still divided between those that who think ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKing2SimbasPride'' is decent in its own right and those that who remain unhappy that Disney didn’t use the book series spin-off from the original film as its basis.
*** Disney's ''Franchise/WinnieThePooh'' sequels are often considered the most worthy contenders to their original film, namely ''WesternAnimation/TheManyAdventuresOfWinnieThePooh''. Even some of the Disneytoon Studios' sequels have gained a cult following with fans of the franchise. However many still prefer the first film due to more closely adapting the original novels and their laid back, comedic but still sentimental tone, while some appreciate the sequels for taking on more ambitious, DarkerAndEdgier original story lines storylines that allow for deeper CharacterDevelopment (particularly cases such as ''WesternAnimation/PoohsGrandAdventure'' and ''WesternAnimation/TheTiggerMovie''). The character focus is also a point of contention, since while the original film focuses more on the same primary cast as the novels, the later films often give limelight to some of the more minor characters such as Roo while placing mainstays such as Owl and Christopher Robin OutOfFocus.



** When comparing the [[Creator/{{Syfy}} Sci Fi Channel]] remake of ''Series/{{Battlestar Galactica|2003}}'' to its [[Series/BattlestarGalactica1978 original counterpart]], which is often considered a [[NarmCharm cheesy yet charming]] 70's Sci-Fi series. Many have complained bitterly that the creators of the new series scraped a rather good concept, and tried for a rather over the top DarkerAndEdgier approach.
** And for fans of the Reboot, there's ''Series/{{Caprica}}'' for a Contested Prequel. Many fans of the Reboot thought the series was overly melodramatic and slow as molasses with little of actual significance happening until close to the end, while ''Caprica'' fans praise the show's character-heavy storytelling as being superior and [[TrueArtIsAngsty more meaningful]] than what the Reboot provided.
** The short-lived second prequel series ''Series/BattlestarGalacticaBloodAndChrome'' saw almost precisely opposite responses to ''Caprica'', with virtually the same groups of fans respectively condemning it as dumbed-down spectacle for lowbrow fanboys, or celebrating the return to space battles.

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** When comparing the [[Creator/{{Syfy}} Sci Fi Sci-Fi Channel]] remake of ''Series/{{Battlestar Galactica|2003}}'' to its [[Series/BattlestarGalactica1978 original counterpart]], which is often considered a [[NarmCharm cheesy yet charming]] 70's Sci-Fi series. Many have complained bitterly that the creators fans of the new original continue to wish Sci-Fi made a continuation of it (as was originally championed by cast member Creator/RichardHatch, who would go on to play a major character in the remake) as opposed to a remake and despise the 2003 series scraped a rather good concept, and tried for a rather over the top DarkerAndEdgier approach.regard it as an InNameOnly adaptation.
** And for fans of the Reboot, reboot, there's ''Series/{{Caprica}}'' for ''Series/{{Caprica}}'', which is a Contested Prequel. ''{{Prequel}}''. Many fans of the Reboot reboot thought the series was overly melodramatic and slow as molasses with little of actual significance happening until close to the end, while ''Caprica'' fans praise the show's character-heavy storytelling as being superior and [[TrueArtIsAngsty more meaningful]] than what the Reboot reboot provided.
** The short-lived second prequel series ''Series/BattlestarGalacticaBloodAndChrome'' saw almost precisely opposite responses to ''Caprica'', with virtually the same groups of fans respectively condemning it as a dumbed-down spectacle for lowbrow fanboys, or celebrating the return to space battles.



** ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'' is regarded by many fans as being a bland continuation of ''The Next Generation'' in all but name, all the while [[{{Flanderization}} over-exaggerating]] the {{technobabble}} that people had come to associate with ''Trek''. Others think it was an enjoyable series that, while flawed, still delivered on decent action plots and interesting concepts. Many fans also site ExecutiveMeddling as a reason for the show losing momentum and going all over the place later into its run.

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** ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'' is regarded by many fans as being a bland continuation of ''The Next Generation'' in all but name, all the while [[{{Flanderization}} over-exaggerating]] the {{technobabble}} that people had come to associate with ''Trek''. Others think it was an enjoyable series that, while flawed, still delivered on decent action plots and interesting concepts. Many fans also site cite ExecutiveMeddling as a reason for the show losing momentum and going all over the place later into its run.


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* ''Series/Watchmen2019'' for fans of the comic ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}''. Aside from Creator/AlanMoore's infamous dislike of most adaptations based on his work, there's also a great deal of debate as to just how necessary a sequel was, whether it actually fits with the story originally told, and how well it expands on its themes.
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** And on the other hand there's ''WesternAnimation/ShrekForeverAfter'', which is either a SurprisinglyImprovedSequel after the letdown of ''Westernanimation/ShrekTheThird'' by having a better plot and villain, or an even worse follow-up that completely abandones the actual characters.

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** And on the other hand there's ''WesternAnimation/ShrekForeverAfter'', which is either a SurprisinglyImprovedSequel after the letdown of ''Westernanimation/ShrekTheThird'' by having a better plot and villain, or an even worse follow-up that completely abandones abandons the actual characters.



* ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragon'':
** ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragon2'' got hit with this. Some people who dislike it criticize it for slower pacing and less ShowDontTell and heavier dialogue. Others felt that it was a worthy sequel that explored dark themes such as war and death in a mature manner for a family film.

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* ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragon'':
''Franchise/HowToTrainYourDragon'':
** Some people who dislike ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragon2'' got hit with this. Some people who dislike it criticize it for slower pacing and less ShowDontTell and heavier dialogue. Others felt that it was a worthy sequel that explored dark themes such as war and death in a mature manner for a family film.
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* ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', the sequel series to the much-beloved ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender''. The shows differ greatly in character, setting, structure, tone, and art style, which is enough to ruffle some feathers. With a second season [[SophomoreSlump that even those who love the show dislike]], ''Korra'' is considered to have [[GrowingTheBeard come into its own]] during its third season. But thanks to some perceived missteps throughout its run, especially during its first two seasons, the fanbase was divided mainly into those who consider it a worthy-but-flawed successor to the first series and those that consider it to have too many failures to be considered a good follow-up. And in the years since its conclusion, there's now a sizable group who believe ''Korra'' [[EvenBetterSequel to be the superior cartoon]], with even the divisive first two seasons seen as fantastic in their own right.

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* ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', the sequel series to the much-beloved ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender''. The shows differ greatly in character, setting, structure, tone, character (the main cast of ''Korra'' are older teens and art style, adults as opposed to kids), setting (''Korra'' is UrbanFantasy as opposed to HighFantasy), structure (''Korra'' is serialized with distinct season arcs, while ATLA was more episodic with a MythArc), and tone (''Korra'' more explicitly dealt with political drama), which is enough to ruffle some feathers. With a second season [[SophomoreSlump that even those who love the show dislike]], ''Korra'' is considered to have [[GrowingTheBeard come into its own]] during its third season. But thanks to some perceived missteps throughout its run, especially during its first two seasons, seasons (with even the show's biggest fans [[SophomoreSlump tending to dislike Book 2]]), the fanbase was quickly divided mainly into those who consider it a worthy-but-flawed successor to the first series and those that consider it to have too many failures to be considered a good follow-up. And in the years since its conclusion, there's now a sizable group who believe ''Korra'' [[EvenBetterSequel to be the superior cartoon]], with even the divisive first two seasons seen as fantastic in their own right.
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** ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine''. The odd thing about ''Deep Space Nine'' was that its Contested Sequel status occurred ''after'' GrowingTheBeard - prior to that nearly everyone agreed it was simply too slow and literally too "stuck" in its stationary premise. Once the Dominion War arc occurred, many proclaimed that it was the best of the ''Trek'' series - however, others felt that it was a complete betrayal of Gene Roddenberry's vision of humanity's goals for the future while ''still others'' claimed that it didn't just [[FollowTheLeader copy]] but outright ''UsefulNotes/{{plagiari|sm}}zed'' ''Series/BabylonFive'', with fans of that show still to this day providing "proof" that the writers directly plagiarized from a treatment J. Micheal Strazynski had shown Paramount.

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** ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine''. The odd thing about ''Deep Space Nine'' was that its Contested Sequel status occurred ''after'' GrowingTheBeard - prior to that nearly everyone agreed it was simply too slow and literally too "stuck" in its stationary premise. Once the Dominion War arc occurred, many proclaimed that it was the best of the ''Trek'' series - however, others felt that it was a complete betrayal of Gene Roddenberry's vision of humanity's goals for the future while ''still others'' claimed that it didn't just [[FollowTheLeader copy]] but outright ''UsefulNotes/{{plagiari|sm}}zed'' ''Series/BabylonFive'', UsefulNotes/{{plagiari|sm}}zed ''Series/Babylon5'', with fans of that show still to this day providing "proof" that the writers directly plagiarized from a treatment J. Micheal Strazynski Creator/JMichaelStraczynski had shown Paramount.



** ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' was done primarily because fans had complained about the stationary nature of ''Deep Space 9'' and the constant {{technobabble}} of ''Voyager''. Setting it in an earlier time period allowed [[HyperspaceIsAScaryPlace the scary nature of space travel]] to be more constant and the technology wasn't always the savior. There were fans who loved it from the start, fans who ''hated'' it from the start, and a third group who felt it had a hard time at first, but found its voice just before it was canceled (with a further subdivision based on whether the [[GrowingTheBeard beard was grown]] in season 3 or 4).

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** ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' was done primarily because fans had complained about the stationary nature of ''Deep Space 9'' Nine'' and the constant {{technobabble}} of ''Voyager''. Setting it in an earlier time period allowed [[HyperspaceIsAScaryPlace the scary nature of space travel]] to be more constant and the technology wasn't always the savior. There were fans who loved it from the start, fans who ''hated'' it from the start, and a third group who felt it had a hard time at first, but found its voice just before it was canceled (with a further subdivision based on whether the [[GrowingTheBeard beard was grown]] in season 3 or 4).



*** Those who praise the game consider it one of the most entertaining games in the series and vast improvement from the previous mainline entry ''[[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies Dual Destinies]]''. Common points of praise include the vastly more consistently written and intelligent mysteries which don't resort to constant hand-holding or constant uses of ContrivedCoincidence, the much grander and epic storyline, the interesting and likable new characters for the cases themselves and giving Apollo a proper epic case to handle. Of them, "The Magic Turnabout" is especially beloved by fans due to finally giving Trucy proper CharacterDevelopment and overall being one of the best cases in the series in terms of construction.
*** The critics for the game, on the other hand, are far harsher to the story (with the pointed exception of [[BestLevelEver The Magic Turnabout]]), and consider the game one of the worst in the series. Common complaints include the Kingdom of Khura'in being a gimmicky and implausible setting, Nahyuta being a poorly written and incredibly unlikable rival with an implausible character arc, Maya being an AdvertisedExtra and the story suffering from immense pacing and focus issues due in large part to splitting the story across two separate countries with different characters. The final case espcially attracts complaints due to the heavily convoluted nature of it that rather clumsily attempts to make Apollo the main protagonist, and for the rather underwhelming nature of [[spoiler:Ga'ran]] as a villain.

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*** Those who praise the game consider it one of the most entertaining games in the series and vast improvement from the previous mainline entry ''[[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies Dual Destinies]]''. Common points of praise include the vastly more consistently written and intelligent mysteries which don't resort to constant hand-holding or constant uses of ContrivedCoincidence, the much grander and epic storyline, the interesting and likable new characters for the cases themselves and giving Apollo a proper epic case to handle. Of them, "The "[[BestLevelEver The Magic Turnabout" Turnabout]]" is especially beloved by fans due to finally giving Trucy proper CharacterDevelopment and overall being one of the best cases in the series in terms of construction.
*** The critics for the game, on the other hand, are far harsher to the story (with the pointed exception of [[BestLevelEver The "The Magic Turnabout]]), Turnabout"), and consider the game one of the worst in the series. Common complaints include the Kingdom of Khura'in being a gimmicky and implausible setting, Nahyuta being a poorly written and incredibly unlikable rival with an implausible a nonsensical character arc, Maya being an AdvertisedExtra and the story suffering from immense pacing and focus issues due in large part to splitting the story across two separate countries with different characters. The final case espcially attracts complaints due to the heavily convoluted nature of it that rather clumsily attempts to make Apollo the main protagonist, and for the rather underwhelming nature of [[spoiler:Ga'ran]] as a villain.
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** While both ''WesternAnimation/Shrek2'' and its [[WesternAnimation/{{Shrek}} predecessor]] are widely loved, there are those who prefer the second movie for its better pacing, humor and character development, and there are those who prefer the first for its "[[WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids grittier]]" feel, more streamlined plot and [[FirstInstallmentWins greater impact on pop and Internet culture]].

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** While both ''WesternAnimation/Shrek2'' and its [[WesternAnimation/{{Shrek}} [[WesternAnimation/Shrek1 predecessor]] are widely loved, there are those who prefer the second movie for its better pacing, humor and character development, and there are those who prefer the first for its "[[WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids grittier]]" feel, more streamlined plot and [[FirstInstallmentWins greater impact on pop and Internet culture]].
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*** Those who praise the game consider it one of the most entertaining games in the series and vast improvement from the previous mainline entry ''Dual Destinies''. Common points of praise include the vastly more consistently written and intelligent mysteries which don't resort to constant hand-holding or constant uses of ContrivedCoincidence, the much grander and epic storyline, the interesting and likable new characters for the cases themselves and giving Apollo a proper epic case to handle. Of them, "The Magic Turnabout" is especially beloved by fans due to finally giving Trucy proper CharacterDevelopment and overall being one of the best cases in the series in terms of construction.

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*** Those who praise the game consider it one of the most entertaining games in the series and vast improvement from the previous mainline entry ''Dual Destinies''.''[[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies Dual Destinies]]''. Common points of praise include the vastly more consistently written and intelligent mysteries which don't resort to constant hand-holding or constant uses of ContrivedCoincidence, the much grander and epic storyline, the interesting and likable new characters for the cases themselves and giving Apollo a proper epic case to handle. Of them, "The Magic Turnabout" is especially beloved by fans due to finally giving Trucy proper CharacterDevelopment and overall being one of the best cases in the series in terms of construction.
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** It's common for fans to call ''Music/{{Encore}}'' the worst album ever, or at least have some extremely negative words for the [[AlbumFiller run of stupid comedy songs]] in the middle. However, a few people and even professional critics find it better than ''The Eminem Show'', due to it being much funnier and more [[SelfDeprecation self-deprecating]], and with a heavily Dre-driven production.
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* ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'''s fourth book (and the final one in the main series) ''Breaking Dawn'' is divisive amongst fans. The Amazon page gives it an average 3-star rating -- because most of the reviews are either 5 stars or 1 star. In one camp, people thought it was a satisfying conclusion to the series; [[EverybodyLives all the main characters survive]] and live HappilyEverAfter, the LoveTriangle is resolved with no hurt feelings, all [[AudienceSurrogate Bella]]'s dreams come true and readers finally get to see what it's like to become a vampire in the ''Twilight'' universe, which had been hyped since the first book. Some readers also enjoyed the unexpected {{plot twist}}s, such as [[spoiler: Bella [[BabiesEverAfter getting pregnant]] with a {{dhampir}}]], especially as it helps [[WorldBuilding expand the lore]]. In the other camp, readers criticised ''Breaking Dawn'' for having ''very'' slow pacing in a book that's already a {{doorstopper}}, the lack of a climactic battle, certain plot threads being [[LeftHanging left dangling]] while others are tied up just a little too neatly, [[CreatorsPet Renesmee]] [[SpotlightStealingSquad hijacking the plot]], Bella becoming (in their view) an InvincibleHero and the twists relying on gaping {{plot hole}}s and/or {{retcon}}s. Team [[spoiler:Jacob]] were particularly unhappy with the outcome given Bella chooses [[spoiler:Edward]], as were those that shipped [[spoiler:Jacob and Leah]].

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* ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'''s ''Literature/TheTwilightSaga'''s fourth book (and the final one in the main series) ''Breaking Dawn'' ''Literature/BreakingDawn'' is divisive amongst fans. The Amazon page gives it an average 3-star rating -- because most of the reviews are either 5 stars or 1 star. In one camp, people thought it was a satisfying conclusion to the series; [[EverybodyLives all the main characters survive]] and live HappilyEverAfter, the LoveTriangle is resolved with no hurt feelings, all [[AudienceSurrogate Bella]]'s dreams come true and readers finally get to see what it's like to become a vampire in the ''Twilight'' universe, which had been hyped since the first book. Some readers also enjoyed the unexpected {{plot twist}}s, such as [[spoiler: Bella [[BabiesEverAfter getting pregnant]] with a {{dhampir}}]], especially as it helps [[WorldBuilding expand the lore]]. In the other camp, readers criticised ''Breaking Dawn'' for having ''very'' slow pacing in a book that's already a {{doorstopper}}, the lack of a climactic battle, certain plot threads being [[LeftHanging left dangling]] while others are tied up just a little too neatly, [[CreatorsPet Renesmee]] [[SpotlightStealingSquad hijacking the plot]], Bella becoming (in their view) an InvincibleHero and the twists relying on gaping {{plot hole}}s and/or {{retcon}}s. Team [[spoiler:Jacob]] were particularly unhappy with the outcome given Bella chooses [[spoiler:Edward]], as were those that shipped [[spoiler:Jacob and Leah]].
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* Some have criticized ''WesternAnimation/Incredibles2'' for having a plot similar to the [[WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles first movie]] [[SwappedRoles but with Helen's and Bob's jobs reversed]], and saw the villain as an inferior replacement to the well-received Syndrome. The ImmediateSequel status of this film didn't help either. On the other hand, a significant number of fans see the film as [[EvenBetterSequel even better]], as the movie significantly develops Helen's job life (in contrast to Bob's job life in the first movie, which was mostly covered in a montage) and Bob's home life was given significant focus as well.

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* Some have criticized ''WesternAnimation/Incredibles2'' for having a plot similar to the [[WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles [[WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles1 first movie]] [[SwappedRoles but with Helen's and Bob's jobs reversed]], and saw the villain as an inferior replacement to the well-received Syndrome. The ImmediateSequel status of this film didn't help either. On the other hand, a significant number of fans see the film as [[EvenBetterSequel even better]], as the movie significantly develops Helen's job life (in contrast to Bob's job life in the first movie, which was mostly covered in a montage) and Bob's home life was given significant focus as well.
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Is now In Universe examples only


* Music/SuicideSilence thought it was a good idea to experiment with the [[NuMetal most controversial metal genre in existence]] for their 2017 self-titled album. Unfortunately, [[DeadArtistsAreBetter sitting around without Mitch Lucker]] recording clean vocals did nothing for the band and ''Suicide Silence'' received polarizing reviews from critics, and ended up performing much worse than the previous record, ''You Can't Stop Me''. It's kind of funny since [[Music/BringMeTheHorizon there's another band that was successfully able to switch to nu metal]] compared to Suicide Silence.

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* Music/SuicideSilence thought it was a good idea to experiment with the [[NuMetal most controversial metal genre in existence]] for their 2017 self-titled album. Unfortunately, [[DeadArtistsAreBetter sitting around without Mitch Lucker]] Lucker recording clean vocals did nothing for the band and ''Suicide Silence'' received polarizing reviews from critics, and ended up performing much worse than the previous record, ''You Can't Stop Me''. It's kind of funny since [[Music/BringMeTheHorizon there's another band that was successfully able to switch to nu metal]] compared to Suicide Silence.

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*** The very first, ''Westernanimation/AladdinTheReturnOfJafar'', is either a lazily written, pointless sequel made only for Disney to milk the cash cow that the original movie was, or a solid follow-up only hindered by a low budget that led to [[OffModel sub-par animation]].



* While both ''WesternAnimation/Shrek2'' and its [[WesternAnimation/{{Shrek}} predecessor]] are widely loved, there are those who prefer the second movie for its better pacing, humor and character development, and there are those who prefer the first for its "[[WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids grittier]]" feel, more streamlined plot and [[FirstInstallmentWins greater impact on pop and Internet culture]].

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* ''Franchise/{{Shrek}}''
**
While both ''WesternAnimation/Shrek2'' and its [[WesternAnimation/{{Shrek}} predecessor]] are widely loved, there are those who prefer the second movie for its better pacing, humor and character development, and there are those who prefer the first for its "[[WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids grittier]]" feel, more streamlined plot and [[FirstInstallmentWins greater impact on pop and Internet culture]]. culture]].
** And on the other hand there's ''WesternAnimation/ShrekForeverAfter'', which is either a SurprisinglyImprovedSequel after the letdown of ''Westernanimation/ShrekTheThird'' by having a better plot and villain, or an even worse follow-up that completely abandones the actual characters.

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The various sagas are all the same series, ergo not sequels.


* ''Anime/PokemonTheSeries'': Every saga after the original series is disputed. In order:
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesRubyAndSapphire Advanced Generation]]'' for replacing Misty and having Ash [[PutOnABus leave all older Pokémon sans Pikachu]] with Oak.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesDiamondAndPearl Diamond and Pearl]]'' for ArcFatigue, introduction of the [[BaseBreakingCharacter polarizing]] rival Paul, and the blandness of some of the other rivals.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesBlackAndWhite Best Wishes]]'' for its [[TookALevelInDumbass reset]] of Ash's competence, attempt to [[RevisitingTheRoots recapture the original series' appeal]] with the characters and writing choices, complete overhaul of [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain Team Rocket's]] role and personalities, {{retcon}}ning of the Team Plasma arc, giving Ash a bigger team that cost several members proper screentime, and rushed pacing that resulted in a load of EndingFatigue.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesXY XY]]'' for getting bogged down with {{filler}} early on, Serena’s perceived one-sided feelings for [[ObliviousToLove Ash]], the handling of [[SuspiciouslySimilarSubstitute Pokémon Showcases]] compared to Contests, and the conclusion of the Kalos League.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesSunAndMoon Sun and Moon]]'' for switching to a very different art style and character designs, [[GenreShift shifting from a land-trotting adventure to a slice-of-life school show]], {{retool}}ing Ash's personality to be more hyperactive and childlike, and DenserAndWackier approach to comedy in general.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonJourneysTheSeries Journeys]]'', for introducing the highly polarizing {{Deuteragonist}} Goh, hit-or-miss handling of [[TheBusCameBack returning characters]], and the controversial handling of its [[TournamentArc World Coronation Series]] subplot.
** Much like the series itself, almost every movie after [[Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie the first]] is contested for one reason or another, so for brevity's sake not all of them will be listed. One notable example, however, is ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened''. Many, many people don’t like it for [[ReplacementScrappy using a brand new Mewtwo]] over the established and popular one from the aforementioned first movie, recycling a lot of elements from previous movies (especially glaring in Mewtwo's origin, which is nearly identical to the original's), and many more reasons.[[labelnote:*]]It doesn't help that this is one of the few movies to be acknowledged as canon in the series itself, alongside the first one.[[/labelnote]] That said, there are those who look past the Mewtwo controversy and see the movie as, if not ''good'', then at least not as horrible as the detractors make it out to be.

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* ''Anime/PokemonTheSeries'': Every saga after the original series is disputed. In order:
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesRubyAndSapphire Advanced Generation]]'' for replacing Misty and having Ash [[PutOnABus leave all older Pokémon sans Pikachu]] with Oak.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesDiamondAndPearl Diamond and Pearl]]'' for ArcFatigue, introduction of the [[BaseBreakingCharacter polarizing]] rival Paul, and the blandness of some of the other rivals.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesBlackAndWhite Best Wishes]]'' for its [[TookALevelInDumbass reset]] of Ash's competence, attempt to [[RevisitingTheRoots recapture the original series' appeal]] with the characters and writing choices, complete overhaul of [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain Team Rocket's]] role and personalities, {{retcon}}ning of the Team Plasma arc, giving Ash a bigger team that cost several members proper screentime, and rushed pacing that resulted in a load of EndingFatigue.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesXY XY]]'' for getting bogged down with {{filler}} early on, Serena’s perceived one-sided feelings for [[ObliviousToLove Ash]], the handling of [[SuspiciouslySimilarSubstitute Pokémon Showcases]] compared to Contests, and the conclusion of the Kalos League.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonTheSeriesSunAndMoon Sun and Moon]]'' for switching to a very different art style and character designs, [[GenreShift shifting from a land-trotting adventure to a slice-of-life school show]], {{retool}}ing Ash's personality to be more hyperactive and childlike, and DenserAndWackier approach to comedy in general.
** ''[[Anime/PokemonJourneysTheSeries Journeys]]'', for introducing the highly polarizing {{Deuteragonist}} Goh, hit-or-miss handling of [[TheBusCameBack returning characters]], and the controversial handling of its [[TournamentArc World Coronation Series]] subplot.
** Much like the series itself, almost
Almost every movie after [[Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie the first]] is contested for one reason or another, so for brevity's sake not all of them will be listed. One notable example, however, is ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened''. Many, many people don’t like it for [[ReplacementScrappy using a brand new Mewtwo]] over the established and popular one from the aforementioned first movie, recycling a lot of elements from previous movies (especially glaring in Mewtwo's origin, which is nearly identical to the original's), and many more reasons.[[labelnote:*]]It doesn't help that this is one of the few movies to be acknowledged as canon in the series itself, alongside the first one.[[/labelnote]] That said, there are those who look past the Mewtwo controversy and see the movie as, if not ''good'', then at least not as horrible as the detractors make it out to be.
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** ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragonTheHiddenWorld'' also gets this. Some find it an excellent GrandFinale to the ''How To Train Your Dragon'' saga that sent the characters off in a heartfelt way. Others find the movie's themes to be [[BrokenAesop completely disconnected from all installments of the series before it]] (in particular feeling like the movie goes out of its way to justify [[spoiler:Hiccup and Toothless parting ways and everyone releasing their dragons to go to the Hidden World with Toothless and his Light Fury mate]] at the end of the movie to the point of throwing continuity with and characterizations/character development in/over the first two movies and the various TV shows/specials out the window), and that the ending was unnecessary and [[{{Asspull}} nonsensical]] (not to mention [[EsotericHappyEnding potentially worrying]] [[FridgeHorror if the implications of said ending are taken into account]]). It's also argued to be an IdiotPlot on the part of the heroes.

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** ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragonTheHiddenWorld'' also gets this. Some find it an excellent GrandFinale to the ''How To Train Your Dragon'' saga that sent the characters off in a heartfelt way. Others find the movie's themes to be [[BrokenAesop completely disconnected from all installments of the series before it]] (in particular feeling like the movie goes out of its way to justify [[spoiler:Hiccup and Toothless parting ways and everyone releasing their dragons to go to the Hidden World with Toothless and his Light Fury mate]] at the end of the movie to the point of throwing continuity with and characterizations/character development in/over the first two movies and the various TV shows/specials out the window), and that the ending was unnecessary and [[{{Asspull}} nonsensical]] (not to mention [[EsotericHappyEnding potentially worrying]] [[FridgeHorror if the implications of said ending are taken into account]]). It's also argued to be an IdiotPlot on the part of the heroes.
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Bard has always been pretty good in D&D


* The fourth edition of ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' has this in spades. All previous editions built on the same basic structure created back in the 1970s, but 4th Edition rebuilt the game from the ground up. Half the fanbase loves it for its tightly defined rule set, tactical depth, strong support for the DM, ease of play and giving every class, even former [[LowTierLetdown Low-Tier Letdowns]] like the [[BareFistedMonk Monk]] and [[SpoonyBard Bard]] a fair shot at being as awesome as [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards Wizards]]. The other half hates it for its reliance on GameplayAndStorySegregation, its heavy focus on battle mat combat, the shoehorning of all classes into the same mechanical structure, and a lot of gratuitous changes to D&D lore. Other editions saw similar arguments, but none were quite so contentious as that one.

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* The fourth edition of ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' has this in spades. All previous editions built on the same basic structure created back in the 1970s, but 4th Edition rebuilt the game from the ground up. Half the fanbase loves it for its tightly defined rule set, tactical depth, strong support for the DM, ease of play and giving every class, even former [[LowTierLetdown Low-Tier Letdowns]] like the [[BareFistedMonk Monk]] and [[SpoonyBard Bard]] a fair shot at being as awesome as [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards Wizards]]. The other half hates it for its reliance on GameplayAndStorySegregation, its heavy focus on battle mat combat, the shoehorning of all classes into the same mechanical structure, and a lot of gratuitous changes to D&D lore. Other editions saw similar arguments, but none were quite so contentious as that one.
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* Fans of the original ''TabletopGame/SushiGo'' are divided on the [[UpdatedReRelease expanded re-release]] ''Sushi Go Party!''. Those who like it enjoy how the new cards and menus offer new possibilities for play, especially if they feel that the original has got stale, or want to play the game in a setting the original wasn't really suited for (e.g. with a player count of 2 or 6-8). Those who don't like it feel that it sacrificed the original's simplicity (just bring the small box, shuffle up and play, while ''Party!'' has a bigger box and may require you to sort cards) for little gain, and that the new card designs aren't that good.
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Tier-Induced Scrappy is no longer a trope


* The fourth edition of ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' has this in spades. All previous editions built on the same basic structure created back in the 1970s, but 4th Edition rebuilt the game from the ground up. Half the fanbase loves it for its tightly defined rule set, tactical depth, strong support for the DM, ease of play and giving every class, even former [[TierInducedScrappy Tier-Induced Scrappies]] like the [[BareFistedMonk Monk]] and [[SpoonyBard Bard]] a fair shot at being as awesome as [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards Wizards]]. The other half hates it for its reliance on GameplayAndStorySegregation, its heavy focus on battle mat combat, the shoehorning of all classes into the same mechanical structure, and a lot of gratuitous changes to D&D lore. Other editions saw similar arguments, but none were quite so contentious as that one.

to:

* The fourth edition of ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' has this in spades. All previous editions built on the same basic structure created back in the 1970s, but 4th Edition rebuilt the game from the ground up. Half the fanbase loves it for its tightly defined rule set, tactical depth, strong support for the DM, ease of play and giving every class, even former [[TierInducedScrappy Tier-Induced Scrappies]] [[LowTierLetdown Low-Tier Letdowns]] like the [[BareFistedMonk Monk]] and [[SpoonyBard Bard]] a fair shot at being as awesome as [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards Wizards]]. The other half hates it for its reliance on GameplayAndStorySegregation, its heavy focus on battle mat combat, the shoehorning of all classes into the same mechanical structure, and a lot of gratuitous changes to D&D lore. Other editions saw similar arguments, but none were quite so contentious as that one.
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* ''WesternAnimation/TransformersRobotsInDisguise'' contrasts the more serious tone that ''WesternAnimation/TransformersPrime'' into a more light tone. Humor has been implemented, making it somewhat compared to the spin-off series, ''WesternAnimation/TransformersRescueBots''. The story revolves around capturing prisoners that are considered Decepticons which spawned the problem with fans that most of these are MonsterOfTheWeek, although the show itself manages to obtain a BigBad. The fans liked the idea of Bumblebee becoming the central character rather than Optimus Prime since it's established that [[KidAppealcharacter Bumblebee]] himself is a character loved by all the kids.

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The entry was written by somebody who personally despises Ridonculous Race.


** ''[[WesternAnimation/TotalDramaPresentsTheRidonculousRace The Ridonculous Race]]'' also counts despite being a spinoff. Some say that it has managed to save the franchise by breathing new life into it, including greatly toning down the escalating cruelty of the previous seasons, CharacterRerailment of popular cast members like Owen and Geoff, the introduction of a new and more diverse set of characters, a return of the traditional 26-episode seasons, and the change of formula being a breath of fresh air. Others say that it further shows how the franchise is past its prime, due to ArcFatigue issues, the aforementioned change of formula, the new contestants being seen as inferior to the cast of the parent series, and having less drama due to the softer challenges.
* ''WesternAnimation/TransformersRobotsInDisguise'' contrasts the more serious tone that ''WesternAnimation/TransformersPrime'' into a more light tone. Humor has been implemented, making it somewhat compared to the spin-off series, ''WesternAnimation/TransformersRescueBots''. The story revolves around capturing prisoners that are considered Decepticons which spawned the problem with fans that most of these are MonsterOfTheWeek, although the show itself manages to obtain a BigBad. The fans liked the idea of Bumblebee becoming the central character rather than Optimus Prime since it's established that [[KidAppealcharacter Bumblebee]] himself is a character loved by all the kids.
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* Creator/StudioBones' [[AnimeFirst original productions]] also tend to have these. Case in point, ''Anime/EurekaSevenAO'' and ''Anime/DarkerThanBlack: Gemini of the Meteor''. The former went on the chopping block for poor planning and mishandling of a lot of promising ideas, and betraying a lot of values of the original series, and actually went as far as to have a revised final episode to diminish backlash. The latter is considered to be on the wrong end of a case of ToughActToFollow and a drop in quality.

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* Creator/StudioBones' [[AnimeFirst original productions]] also tend to have these. Case in point, ''Anime/EurekaSevenAO'' (and by extension, ''everything'' released after the [[Anime/EurekaSeven original series]]) and ''Anime/DarkerThanBlack: Gemini of the Meteor''. The former went on the chopping block for poor planning and mishandling of a lot of promising ideas, and betraying a lot of values of the original series, and actually went as far as to have a revised final episode to diminish backlash. The latter is considered to be on the wrong end of a case of ToughActToFollow and a drop in quality.
Willbyr MOD

Changed: 5

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* Everyone agrees that ''Theatre/HarryPotterAndTheCursedChild'', for not being written by the series' creator, "feels like fanfic" and should be at most be given a BroadStrokes treatment. But does it work as a sequel for its wonderful emotional beats and bringing back all their old nostalgia, or it's a worthless ClicheStorm rife with convoluted plots and questionable characterization?

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* Everyone agrees that ''Theatre/HarryPotterAndTheCursedChild'', for not being written by the series' creator, "feels like fanfic" and should be at most be given a BroadStrokes treatment. But does it work as a sequel for its wonderful emotional beats and bringing back all their old nostalgia, or it's is it a worthless ClicheStorm rife with convoluted plots and questionable characterization?

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