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OK, it looks like someone went back in history and re-added a bunch of stuff that was removed months or years ago. This is not cool and is going to result in the page getting locked again.
Deleted line(s) 48 (click to see context) :
* SealedEvilInACan: As Yossi Gurvitz, a noted leftist blogger who was raised as an Orthodox Jew, explains, you do NOT want to be around [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY When Israel Is Mighty]].
Deleted line(s) 50,52 (click to see context) :
* StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as 'mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain' to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
** This, however, depends on whom you're asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren't executed is just because this era is not 'When Israel Is Mighty', and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber ("''Yeridat haDorot''"), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren't that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
** This, however, depends on whom you're asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren't executed is just because this era is not 'When Israel Is Mighty', and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber ("''Yeridat haDorot''"), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren't that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
This has already been moved to the trivia page. Did someone copy/paste this?
Deleted line(s) 48,52 (click to see context) :
* ScienceMarchesOn: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, even for people of the time, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant. A few more examples:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they're younger than three years and a day, so molesting one [[InsaneTrollLogic isn't considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they're younger than three years and a day, so molesting one [[InsaneTrollLogic isn't considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
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Nightmare Fuel hasn\'t had an octane level for a VERY long time, and it never goes on the main page for works anyway, just the YMMV page. And It Got Worse was renamed a VERY long time ago because of this sort of misuse. It\'s been on the Permanent Red Link Club for several YEARS at this point. There\'s really no excuse not to know any of this by now.
Changed line(s) 52 (click to see context) from:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they’re younger than three years and a day, so [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel molesting one]] [[InsaneTrollLogic isn’t considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
to:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they’re they're younger than three years and a day, so [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel molesting one]] one [[InsaneTrollLogic isn’t isn't considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
Changed line(s) 54,57 (click to see context) from:
** StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as ‘mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain’ to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
*** This, however, depends on whom you’re asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren’t executed is just because this era is not ‘When Israel Is Mighty’, and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And ItGotWorse, as the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber (‘''Yeridat haDorot''’), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren’t that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
* TheStoryteller: there are several parables contained inside.
*** This, however, depends on whom you’re asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren’t executed is just because this era is not ‘When Israel Is Mighty’, and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And ItGotWorse, as the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber (‘''Yeridat haDorot''’), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren’t that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
* TheStoryteller: there are several parables contained inside.
to:
* StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews
* TheStoryteller: there are several parables contained inside.
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None
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* ScienceMarchesOn: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, even for people of the time, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant. A few more examples:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they’re younger than three years and a day, so [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel molesting one]] [[InsaneTrollLogic isn’t considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
* SealedEvilInACan: As Yossi Gurvitz, a noted leftist blogger who was raised as an Orthodox Jew, explains, you do NOT want to be around [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY When Israel Is Mighty]].
** StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as ‘mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain’ to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
*** This, however, depends on whom you’re asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren’t executed is just because this era is not ‘When Israel Is Mighty’, and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And ItGotWorse, as the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber (‘''Yeridat haDorot''’), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren’t that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they’re younger than three years and a day, so [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel molesting one]] [[InsaneTrollLogic isn’t considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
* SealedEvilInACan: As Yossi Gurvitz, a noted leftist blogger who was raised as an Orthodox Jew, explains, you do NOT want to be around [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY When Israel Is Mighty]].
** StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as ‘mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain’ to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
*** This, however, depends on whom you’re asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren’t executed is just because this era is not ‘When Israel Is Mighty’, and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And ItGotWorse, as the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber (‘''Yeridat haDorot''’), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren’t that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
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None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* Nezikin (Damages), relating to monetary laws and court procedures (for those versed in UsefulNotes/TheCommonLaw, it sets out tort law, most contract law, property law, civil procedure, some criminal law, criminal procedure, and some of the law of evidence, especially as relates to oaths). This is the most popular order to learn in Orthodox ''yeshivas'', as it provides a wealth of depth and logic.
to:
* Nezikin (Damages), relating to monetary laws and court procedures (for those versed in UsefulNotes/TheCommonLaw, it sets out tort law, most contract law, property law, civil procedure, much of inheritance/wills and estates law, some criminal law, criminal procedure, and some of the law of evidence, especially as relates to oaths). This is the most popular order to learn in Orthodox ''yeshivas'', as it provides a wealth of depth and logic.
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None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* Nezikin (Damages), relating to monetary laws and court procedures. This is the most popular order to learn in Orthodox ''yeshivas'', as it provides a wealth of depth and logic.
to:
* Nezikin (Damages), relating to monetary laws and court procedures.procedures (for those versed in UsefulNotes/TheCommonLaw, it sets out tort law, most contract law, property law, civil procedure, some criminal law, criminal procedure, and some of the law of evidence, especially as relates to oaths). This is the most popular order to learn in Orthodox ''yeshivas'', as it provides a wealth of depth and logic.
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None
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
* TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt: God desires this in Tractate Sanhedrin. Narrowly averted when He catches sight of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah - the three righteous men from the Literature/BookOfDaniel.
to:
* TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt: God desires this in Tractate Sanhedrin. Narrowly averted Averted when He catches sight of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah - the three righteous men from the Literature/BookOfDaniel.
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None
Deleted line(s) 48,53 (click to see context) :
* ScienceMarchesOn: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant. A few more examples:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=253 Mice can gang up on a cat and kill it.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back if penetrated before the age of three.]] Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=253 Mice can gang up on a cat and kill it.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back if penetrated before the age of three.]] Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
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That\'s not \"retribution\" at all, but a sort of metaphysical cause and effect. It\'s not presented as a punishment.
Deleted line(s) 32 (click to see context) :
* DisproportionateRetribution: According to Nedarim 20:2, children can be born with all sorts of handicaps if their parents talk dirty, have oral or anal sex, or so much as look at each other’s genitals.
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* DisproportionateRetribution: According to Nedarim 20:2, children can be born with all sorts of handicaps if their parents talk dirty, have oral or anal sex, or so much as look at each other’s genitals.
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** And it's very controversial whether said passage refers to Jesus ''at all''. Yeshu was a very common given name during the first century BCE. It's mainly used by anti-semites to imply that the Talmud is inherently anti-Christian.
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Changed line(s) 16,17 (click to see context) from:
The Talmud is not simply a list of laws. It has an entirely unique style, being culled from notes and conversations spanning decades, and is an attempt at codifying the Oral Torah. There are plenty of arguments (most unresolved), much back-and-forth (you will probably need charts to keep track of some of it), many detours and anecdotes, a smattering of mysticism and a whole lot of stories that make practically no immediate sense, and to which commentators have devoted volumes to deciphering the deeper meaning. To give a secular comparison, the written Torah is like written statute law, while the Talmud is more like a collection of case law and law review articles; the comparison to TheCommonLaw is apt, as the Oral Torah operates much like the American legal system in that precedent is usually followed ''unless'' there is a reason in the Torah to arrive at a different conclusion.
to:
The Talmud is not simply a list of laws. It has an entirely unique style, being culled from notes and conversations spanning decades, and is an attempt at codifying the Oral Torah. There are plenty of arguments (most unresolved), much back-and-forth (you will probably need charts to keep track of some of it), many detours and anecdotes, a smattering of mysticism and a whole lot of stories that make practically no immediate sense, and to which commentators have devoted volumes to deciphering the deeper meaning. To give a secular comparison, the written Torah is like written statute law, while the Talmud is more like a collection of case law and law review articles; the comparison to TheCommonLaw UsefulNotes/TheCommonLaw is apt, as the Oral Torah operates much like the American legal system in that precedent is usually followed ''unless'' there is a reason in the Torah to arrive at a different conclusion.
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Changed line(s) 58 (click to see context) from:
to:
* WorldOfSnark: To the point where being able to tell the snark from the sincerity is considered a sign of mastery.
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* ItMakesSenseInContext: A claim often made by scholars about some of the parts modern readers would find more outlandish, {{Squick}}-inducing, or outright morally abhorrent. Problem is, there is ''a LOT of context''.
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Again - it\'s not artistic license; it\'s not a work of fiction. Leave the correct trope there please.
Changed line(s) 46 (click to see context) from:
* ScienceMarchesOn[=/=]ArtisticLicenseBiology: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant. A few more examples:
to:
* ScienceMarchesOn[=/=]ArtisticLicenseBiology: ScienceMarchesOn: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant. A few more examples:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It\'s not in the Talmud, it doesn\'t belong on this page.
Changed line(s) 42,44 (click to see context) from:
* OldMaster : a stereotyped master of Talmud is always old.
** Subverted and played straight in the film ''A Stranger Among Us'', and in the novel ''Literature/TheChosen''. In ''A Stranger Among Us'' there is a young as well as an old Talmudic genius. In ''Literature/TheChosen'', all the main characters, old and young are quite formidable with it.
** Played with: When Rabbi Elazar ben Azaryah is appointed as leader of all the Rabbis of Israel, he explains that he doesn't want the job because all of the other Rabbis will mock him for his young age. God steps in and makes him look like a seventy year old man.
** Subverted and played straight in the film ''A Stranger Among Us'', and in the novel ''Literature/TheChosen''. In ''A Stranger Among Us'' there is a young as well as an old Talmudic genius. In ''Literature/TheChosen'', all the main characters, old and young are quite formidable with it.
** Played with: When Rabbi Elazar ben Azaryah is appointed as leader of all the Rabbis of Israel, he explains that he doesn't want the job because all of the other Rabbis will mock him for his young age. God steps in and makes him look like a seventy year old man.
to:
* OldMaster : a stereotyped master of Talmud is always old.
** Subverted and played straight in the film ''A Stranger Among Us'', and in the novel ''Literature/TheChosen''. In ''A Stranger Among Us'' there is a young as well as an old Talmudic genius. In ''Literature/TheChosen'', all the main characters, old and young are quite formidable with it.
** Played with:OldMaster: Enforced: When Rabbi Elazar ben Azaryah is appointed as leader of all the Rabbis of Israel, he explains that he doesn't want the job because all of the other Rabbis will mock him for his young age. God steps in and makes him look like a seventy year old man.
** Subverted and played straight in the film ''A Stranger Among Us'', and in the novel ''Literature/TheChosen''. In ''A Stranger Among Us'' there is a young as well as an old Talmudic genius. In ''Literature/TheChosen'', all the main characters, old and young are quite formidable with it.
** Played with:
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Don\'t remove good examples, especially not to replace them with zero-content phrases potholed to weblinks. By the way, it would be far preferable to link to the text of the actual Talmud, rather than to a random anti-religion page.
Changed line(s) 48 (click to see context) from:
* ScienceMarchesOn[=/=]ArtisticLicenseBiology: Among others, there are these examples:
to:
* ScienceMarchesOn[=/=]ArtisticLicenseBiology: Among others, there are these The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant. A few more examples:
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Changed line(s) 49,54 (click to see context) from:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/articles/article.cfm?article_id=13 The authors clearly had very little knowledge about animal anatomy.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 And they said snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 And women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=253 And mice can gang up on a cat and kill it.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 And cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 And a girl's hymen will grow back if penetrated before the age of three.]]'' Fortunately, despite claims to the contrary, the molester is not exempt from punishment.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 And they said snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 And women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=253 And mice can gang up on a cat and kill it.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 And cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 And a girl's hymen will grow back if penetrated before the age of three.]]'' Fortunately, despite claims to the contrary, the molester is not exempt from punishment.
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** [[http://www.daatemet.org/articles/article.cfm?article_id=13 The authors clearly had very little knowledge about animal anatomy.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 And they said snakes cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 And women cfm?ISSUE_ID=253 Mice can give birth to lambs.gang up on a cat and kill it.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=253 And mice cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can gang up on give birth to a cat and kill it.calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 And cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 And a A girl's hymen will grow back if penetrated before the age of three.]]'' Fortunately, despite ]] Despite claims to the contrary, the molester rapist is not exempt from punishment.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.
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We do not collect tropes \"about\" a work.
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!!Tropes in or about the Talmud include:
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!!Tropes in or about the Talmud include:
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* EldritchLocation: The Rabbis enter the realm of Pardes and encunter a palace made of marble so pure that it looks like water. Those who did not understand what they saw went mad.
* TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt: God desires this in Tractate Sanhedrin. Narrowly averted when He catches sight of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah - the three righteous men from the [[Literature/TheBible Book of Daniel]].
* TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt: God desires this in Tractate Sanhedrin. Narrowly averted when He catches sight of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah - the three righteous men from the [[Literature/TheBible Book of Daniel]].
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* EldritchLocation: The Rabbis enter the realm of Pardes and encunter encounter a palace made of marble so pure that it looks like water. Those who did not understand what they saw went mad.
* TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt: God desires this in Tractate Sanhedrin. Narrowly averted when He catches sight of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah - the three righteous men from the[[Literature/TheBible Book of Daniel]].Literature/BookOfDaniel.
* TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt: God desires this in Tractate Sanhedrin. Narrowly averted when He catches sight of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah - the three righteous men from the
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* [[StrawCharacter Strawman Political]]: The Talmud often gets cited by anti-Semites as the source of pretty much any [[BlatantLies crazy shit]] [[{{Demonization}} they want to make up]] about Jews and their beliefs (from medieval times to Yahoo! Answers), alongside (usually misinterpreted) actual excerpts, presumably because it's assumed [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch not many non-Jews will have read it]] and are thus less likely to spot BS. Plus attacking the actual Torah would (or at least ''should'') alienate Christians and Muslims.
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None
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** And worst of all... ''[[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 This.]]'' Fortunately, despite claims to the contrary, the molester is not exempt from punishment.
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** And worst of all... ''[[http://www.[[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 This.And a girl's hymen will grow back if penetrated before the age of three.]]'' Fortunately, despite claims to the contrary, the molester is not exempt from punishment.
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None
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* ScienceMarchesOn[=/=]ArtisticLicenseBiology: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant and that girls' hymens restore themselves after penetration if they're younger than three years and a day, so very young girls legally remain virgins if they are molested. It does not, however, excuse the molester (despite claims to the contrary; see below).
* [[StrawCharacter Strawman Poltiical]]: The Talmud often gets cited by anti-Semites as the source of pretty much any [[BlatantLies crazy shit]] [[{{Demonization}} they want to make up]] about Jews and their beliefs (from medieval times to Yahoo! Answers), presumably because it's assumed [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch not many non-Jews will have read it]] and are thus less likely to spot BS. Plus attacking the actual Torah would (or at least ''should'') alienate Christians and Muslims.
* [[StrawCharacter Strawman Poltiical]]: The Talmud often gets cited by anti-Semites as the source of pretty much any [[BlatantLies crazy shit]] [[{{Demonization}} they want to make up]] about Jews and their beliefs (from medieval times to Yahoo! Answers), presumably because it's assumed [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch not many non-Jews will have read it]] and are thus less likely to spot BS. Plus attacking the actual Torah would (or at least ''should'') alienate Christians and Muslims.
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* ScienceMarchesOn[=/=]ArtisticLicenseBiology: Among others, there are these examples:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/articles/article.cfm?article_id=13 TheTalmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant and that girls' hymens restore themselves after penetration if they're younger than three years and a day, so authors clearly had very young girls legally remain virgins if little knowledge about animal anatomy.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 And theyare molested. It does not, however, excuse said snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 And women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=253 And mice can gang up on a cat and kill it.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 And cows can give birth to a calf directly into themolester (despite womb of another cow.]]
** And worst of all... ''[[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 This.]]'' Fortunately, despite claims to thecontrary; see below).
contrary, the molester is not exempt from punishment.
* [[StrawCharacter StrawmanPoltiical]]: Political]]: The Talmud often gets cited by anti-Semites as the source of pretty much any [[BlatantLies crazy shit]] [[{{Demonization}} they want to make up]] about Jews and their beliefs (from medieval times to Yahoo! Answers), alongside (usually misinterpreted) actual excerpts, presumably because it's assumed [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch not many non-Jews will have read it]] and are thus less likely to spot BS. Plus attacking the actual Torah would (or at least ''should'') alienate Christians and Muslims.
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/articles/article.cfm?article_id=13 The
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 And they
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 And women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=253 And mice can gang up on a cat and kill it.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 And cows can give birth to a calf directly into the
** And worst of all... ''[[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 This.]]'' Fortunately, despite claims to the
* [[StrawCharacter Strawman
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This has been mentioned before, but the halachic ramifications of this law does not mean that this sort of thing is condoned. Please don\'t flame bait.
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* PaedoHunt: By modern standards, [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 horrifically averted]].
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None
* PaedoHunt: By modern standards, [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 horrifically averted]].
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* PaedoHunt: By modern standards, [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 horrifically averted]].
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* PaedoHunt: By modern standards, [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 horrifically averted]].
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It feels weird to use the Christian dating system for a Jewish text.
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A collection of rabbinical discussions of Jewish customs and theology. It is divided into the Mishnah (written about 200 AD), which is the first written collection of Jewish laws; and the Gemara (about 500 AD), which is a discussion of the Mishnah and Jewish works, including what Christians know as [[Literature/TheBible the Old Testament]]. Intellectual study and discussion of the Talmud has an important role among the customs and history of many Jews. If you have a story in which one of the characters is a [[GoodShepherd rabbi]], you can be fairly sure that they [[TheSmartGuy know a lot]] about the Talmud. And if you [[SchmuckBait wish to debate them or hear them expound]], you will [[SesquipedalianLoquaciousness get what you ask for]].
to:
A collection of rabbinical discussions of Jewish customs and theology. It is divided into the Mishnah (written about 200 AD), CE), which is the first written collection of Jewish laws; and the Gemara (about 500 AD), CE), which is a discussion of the Mishnah and Jewish works, including what Christians know as [[Literature/TheBible the Old Testament]]. Intellectual study and discussion of the Talmud has an important role among the customs and history of many Jews. If you have a story in which one of the characters is a [[GoodShepherd rabbi]], you can be fairly sure that they [[TheSmartGuy know a lot]] about the Talmud. And if you [[SchmuckBait wish to debate them or hear them expound]], you will [[SesquipedalianLoquaciousness get what you ask for]].
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None
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* ScienceMarchesOn / ArtisticLicenseBiology: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant and that girls' hymens restore themselves after penetration if they're younger than three years and a day, so very young girls legally remain virgins if they are molested. It does not, however, excuse the molester (despite claims to the contrary; see below).
* StrawmanPolitical: The Talmud often gets cited by anti-Semites as the source of pretty much any [[BlatantLies crazy shit]] [[{{Demonization}} they want to make up]] about Jews and their beliefs (from medieval times to Yahoo! Answers), presumably because it's assumed [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch not many non-Jews will have read it]] and are thus less likely to spot BS. Plus attacking the actual Torah would (or at least ''should'') alienate Christians and Muslims.
* StrawmanPolitical: The Talmud often gets cited by anti-Semites as the source of pretty much any [[BlatantLies crazy shit]] [[{{Demonization}} they want to make up]] about Jews and their beliefs (from medieval times to Yahoo! Answers), presumably because it's assumed [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch not many non-Jews will have read it]] and are thus less likely to spot BS. Plus attacking the actual Torah would (or at least ''should'') alienate Christians and Muslims.
to:
* ScienceMarchesOn / ArtisticLicenseBiology: ScienceMarchesOn[=/=]ArtisticLicenseBiology: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant and that girls' hymens restore themselves after penetration if they're younger than three years and a day, so very young girls legally remain virgins if they are molested. It does not, however, excuse the molester (despite claims to the contrary; see below).
*StrawmanPolitical: [[StrawCharacter Strawman Poltiical]]: The Talmud often gets cited by anti-Semites as the source of pretty much any [[BlatantLies crazy shit]] [[{{Demonization}} they want to make up]] about Jews and their beliefs (from medieval times to Yahoo! Answers), presumably because it's assumed [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch not many non-Jews will have read it]] and are thus less likely to spot BS. Plus attacking the actual Torah would (or at least ''should'') alienate Christians and Muslims.
*
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Read and internalize Conversation In The Main Page. Please no \"in-joke\" potholes and review-style comments.
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* JewsLoveToArgue: The Talmud is the reason for that trope.
** A page of the Talmud is like a layer cake (or an [[{{Shrek}} onion]] of Jewish arguments, with the original Torah verse at the center, the original criticisms written around it, and centuries of further criticisms going around ''that'' in a crazed spiral. It's a fascinating (if very confusing) read.
** A page of the Talmud is like a layer cake (or an [[{{Shrek}} onion]] of Jewish arguments, with the original Torah verse at the center, the original criticisms written around it, and centuries of further criticisms going around ''that'' in a crazed spiral. It's a fascinating (if very confusing) read.
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* JewsLoveToArgue: The Talmud is the reason for that trope.
**TropeMaker. A page of the Talmud is like a layer cake (or an [[{{Shrek}} onion]] of Jewish arguments, with the original Torah verse at the center, the original criticisms written around it, and centuries of further criticisms going around ''that'' in a crazed spiral. It's a fascinating (if very confusing) read.spiral.
**
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** A page of the Talmud is like a layer cake (or an [[{{Shrek}} onion]] of Jewish arguments, with the original Torah verse at the center, the original criticisms written around it, and centuries of further criticisms going around ''that'' in a crazed spiral. It's a fascinating (if very confusing) read.
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correcting talmudic error
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* ScienceMarchesOn / ArtisticLicenseBiology: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant and that girls' hymens restore themselves after penetration if they're younger than three years and a day, so molesting one is not halachically punishable the same way molesting an older child would be.
to:
* ScienceMarchesOn / ArtisticLicenseBiology: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant and that girls' hymens restore themselves after penetration if they're younger than three years and a day, so molesting one is not halachically punishable very young girls legally remain virgins if they are molested. It does not, however, excuse the same way molesting an older child would be.molester (despite claims to the contrary; see below).
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* {{Doorstopper}}: Some editions can fill an entire bookcase. No, not a book''shelf''. An entire ''case''.
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* {{Doorstopper}}: Some editions can fill an entire bookcase. No, not a book''shelf''. An entire ''case''.
