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cleaning Captain Obvious trope sinkhole use, project thread here


** Presumably, [[CaptainObvious they investigated]]. Like, say, took his facial features and ran a search based on their databases. Shepherd would have every reason to let it be known that Allen was a CIA agent. The Russians look through their databases, find a match for a recently promoted field agent assigned to Makarov's group, and go from there. And the FSB doesn't know immediately that the ambulance's crew shot Allen; all they know is that there's a ton of chaos at the airport, terrorists are running around, they've got dozens of corpses of their own men and hundreds of dead civilians, and there's an ambulance pulling out right in front of them, and look, there's a corpse. The situation is too violent and chaotic to organize a tailing of a suspicious vehicle; by the time the FSB agents who've found Allen's body have made the connections, gotten on the radio to their superiors, and the superiors organized a pursuit, the ambulance is going to be long gone and Makarov's likely going to have switched vehicles. It won't help that the radios are going to be clogged with a horrific slew of conflicting reports and radio traffic as everyone tries to report in, people call for help and medical support, morons on certain channels will be hot-miking and locking up that entire channel, and their superiors are going to have to coordinate multiple teams of agents, EMT vehicles, regular police, and likely military. The communications situation in any disaster or terrorist attack like this is a mess no matter how well-trained your operators are, so I see why Makarov is able to escape before the FSB can arrange a pursuit of the suspicious ambulance.

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** Presumably, [[CaptainObvious they investigated]].investigated. Like, say, took his facial features and ran a search based on their databases. Shepherd would have every reason to let it be known that Allen was a CIA agent. The Russians look through their databases, find a match for a recently promoted field agent assigned to Makarov's group, and go from there. And the FSB doesn't know immediately that the ambulance's crew shot Allen; all they know is that there's a ton of chaos at the airport, terrorists are running around, they've got dozens of corpses of their own men and hundreds of dead civilians, and there's an ambulance pulling out right in front of them, and look, there's a corpse. The situation is too violent and chaotic to organize a tailing of a suspicious vehicle; by the time the FSB agents who've found Allen's body have made the connections, gotten on the radio to their superiors, and the superiors organized a pursuit, the ambulance is going to be long gone and Makarov's likely going to have switched vehicles. It won't help that the radios are going to be clogged with a horrific slew of conflicting reports and radio traffic as everyone tries to report in, people call for help and medical support, morons on certain channels will be hot-miking and locking up that entire channel, and their superiors are going to have to coordinate multiple teams of agents, EMT vehicles, regular police, and likely military. The communications situation in any disaster or terrorist attack like this is a mess no matter how well-trained your operators are, so I see why Makarov is able to escape before the FSB can arrange a pursuit of the suspicious ambulance.
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*** Actually special operations teams, at least American ones, are made up of mostly mid-to-high-ranking NCOs. There also is a least one officer, the team/squad leader.

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*** Actually special operations teams, at least American ones, are made up of mostly mid-to-high-ranking NCOs.[=NCOs=]. There also is a least one officer, the team/squad leader.
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**** The thing about Tet is that, while it was a massive blunder for North Vietnam and a crushing victory for the US, the North's leaders took their loss and salvaged it into a propaganda victory. The US Government and media had been telling people how they were steadily winning the war and that everything was going according to plan. Then out of nowhere comes this massive offensive committing tens of thousands of soldiers and weapons. Regardless of the reality, Tet blew a hole in public perception of the Vietnam War, it created doubt in the narrative that the government had been selling people on. Hudson, being a spook, would be aware of the public opinion aspect of the War and could be correctly surmising that Tet could deal a crushing propaganda blow regardless of its outcome.
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**** There's a world of difference between hardened military vehicle and a national level power grid. The assumption is that the power grid is big so it must be more robust but in fact it's the other way around. Power grids are very fragile and have to be constantly maintained in a delicate balance lest a cascade of failures knock out the entire grid. All of those electrical lines? They act as antennas soaking up the EMP and playing merry hell with the transformers and controlling electronics. And that's before getting into the fact that most of the civil electrical grid is not hardened to this tropers knowledge. Protecting a vehicles electronics from an EMP is comparatively trivial.


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*** I don't think 'Lost' was supposed to refer to casualties, I think it was meant to imply KIA, and even if it was not, 30,000 is a lot of casualties. To put it in context a US marine division is around twenty thousand men strong and even in an assault would be spread over a very wide operational area to give its individual elements room to maneuver. The bomb portrayed in Modern Warfare 1 and 3 was not particularly high yield. The affects of fallout on casualty counts are also greatly exaggerated.

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*** Not quite; according to the [=CoD=] Wiki, Mason removes the round in the chamber before handing the gun over.



*** Noriega does get into a scuffle with some other US soldiers unaware of his identity or Mason and Woods' mission shortly before they actually get him to a checkpoint; it's unlikely but still possible he may have managed to grab a new mag from one of them.



** [[spoiler:His playable segment shows him to be at least three times tougher than either of the Masons. He could take those G-forces better than most.]]

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** [[spoiler:His His playable segment shows him to be at least three times tougher than either of the Masons.Masons (our own page for the game describes him as playing more like the VideoGame/{{Doom}}guy than a traditional [=CoD=] player-character). He could take those G-forces better than most.]]
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** Keep in mind those are actually F-15C's - model ganked from the first ''Modern Warfare''[='=]s airstrike KillStreak - and that, even if they were Strike Eagles, no F-15 variant is compatible with the AGM-88. Maybe as a one-off modification or something (the F-15's avionics can apparently be reprogrammed to accept new weapons), but given the intensity of the Americans' situation throughout most of the game, it makes far less sense to go through that sort of trouble for a single mission rather than just using F/A-18's that are ''already'' compatible with basically every weapon in the US inventory.
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*** I feel the need to mention that there were only ''six'' men in the helicopter at the end of "Blackout" (Soap, Gaz, Price, Nikolai and the two pilots), yet at the start of "Hunted" there are ''eight'' (Soap, Gaz, Price, Nikolai, the two pilots "Paulson" and another {{Redshirt}}.).

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*** I feel the need to mention that there were only ''six'' men in the helicopter at the end of "Blackout" (Soap, Gaz, Price, Nikolai and the two pilots), yet at the start of "Hunted" there are ''eight'' (Soap, Gaz, Price, Nikolai, the two pilots pilots, "Paulson" and another {{Redshirt}}.).



** One must remember that "Spetsnaz" is a generic term. Its roughly the same as "Special Forces" in English, so it could refer to any number of organizations that operate as special operations units within the Russian government. Alfa and Vympel are both spetsnaz groups, but they aren't both a part of an organization called "Spetsnaz". So really, when we fight "Spetsnaz", SAS might be fighting whatever organization in the Ultranationalists functions as a Special Forces unit.

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** One must remember that "Spetsnaz" is a generic term. Its It's roughly the same as "Special Forces" in English, so it could refer to any number of organizations that operate as special operations units within the Russian government. Alfa and Vympel are both spetsnaz groups, but they aren't both a part of an organization called "Spetsnaz"."Spetsnaz" - the actual organization they both belong to is the FSB. So really, when we fight "Spetsnaz", SAS might be fighting whatever organization in the Ultranationalists functions as a Special Forces unit.



-->'''Mason''': Then I picked up an AK-47 that had a flamethrower attachment....
-->'''Interrogator''': Uh, okay. You ''did''. Then what happened?
*** That makes even more sense considering, last time I played through the game, Hudson's levels had even crazier shit than any of Mason's - apparently Mason is tripping so much he can't even correctly remember what the hell Hudson told him or is just making shit up. Compare ''S.O.G.'', where (ignoring the blatant Jeep ProductPlacement in the last section) the only really out-there thing you can find is the aforementioned flamethrower attachment, to ''Numbers'', where you start with [[GunsAkimbo dual-wielded CZ-75's]] and can continue with dual Kiparis's, a SPAS-12, PSG-1, G11, and the like - none of which was in service anywhere at that time.

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-->'''Mason''': Then I picked up an AK-47 that had a flamethrower attachment....
-->'''Interrogator''':
attachment....\\
'''Interrogator''':
Uh, okay. You ''did''. Then what happened?
*** ** That makes even more sense considering, last time I played through the game, Hudson's levels had even crazier shit than any of Mason's - apparently Mason is tripping so much he can't even correctly remember what the hell Hudson told him or is just making shit up. Compare ''S.O.G.'', where (ignoring the blatant Jeep ProductPlacement in the last section) the only really out-there thing you can find is the aforementioned flamethrower attachment, to ''Numbers'', where you start with [[GunsAkimbo dual-wielded CZ-75's]] and can continue with dual Kiparis's, a SPAS-12, PSG-1, G11, and the like - none of which was in service anywhere or even ''developed'' yet at that time.



!! VideoGame/ModernWarfare 3

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!! VideoGame/ModernWarfare Modern Warfare 3
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** [[WebVideo/FindMakarov Operation Kingfish]] gives a BroadStrokes explanation of what happened. Essentially, Price and the 141 went after Makarov, but during the mission to take him out, Makarov's men laid an ambush and Price was captured during the attempt to fight their way out. Since ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare3'' shows that Makarov was in control of much of the Russian military, we can presume Makarov had Price locked up in the gulag and tortured regularly for his own amusement.

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** [[WebVideo/FindMakarov Operation Kingfish]] gives a BroadStrokes explanation of what happened. Essentially, Price and the 141 went after Makarov, but during the mission to take him out, Makarov's men laid an ambush and Price was captured during the attempt to fight their way out. Since ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare3'' ''Modern Warfare 3'' shows that Makarov was in control of much of the Russian military, we can presume Makarov had Price locked up in the gulag and tortured regularly for his own amusement.



******** There's also definitely an in-game model for Frost, they re-use it for multiplayer and Survival mode.

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******** There's also definitely an in-game model for Frost, but much like most of the new models for returning weapons, they re-use use it for multiplayer and Survival mode.everywhere ''except'' the campaign where you actually play as him.
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** From the ModernWarfare page Foreshadowing example: "A creepy bit of Fridge Brilliance sets in when one re-plays "No Russian." Shepherd introduces Makarov by noting repeatedly that he's in it for the money. And then he says "You have no idea what it cost to put you next to him." The Player assumes this means dead informants or whatnot, but Shepherd could just as easily be referring to the literal financial cost and/or the cost to his own soul." If we assume it is actual foreshadowing then Shepherd had set this up with Makarov beforehand.

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** From the ModernWarfare VideoGame/ModernWarfare page Foreshadowing example: "A creepy bit of Fridge Brilliance sets in when one re-plays "No Russian." Shepherd introduces Makarov by noting repeatedly that he's in it for the money. And then he says "You have no idea what it cost to put you next to him." The Player assumes this means dead informants or whatnot, but Shepherd could just as easily be referring to the literal financial cost and/or the cost to his own soul." If we assume it is actual foreshadowing then Shepherd had set this up with Makarov beforehand.



** [[WebVideo/FindMakarov Operation Kingfish]] gives a BroadStrokes explanation of what happened. Essentially, Price and the 141 went after Makarov, but during the mission to take him out, Makarov's men laid an ambush and Price was captured during the attempt to fight their way out. Since ''ModernWarfare3'' shows that Makarov was in control of much of the Russian military, we can presume Makarov had Price locked up in the gulag and tortured regularly for his own amusement.

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** [[WebVideo/FindMakarov Operation Kingfish]] gives a BroadStrokes explanation of what happened. Essentially, Price and the 141 went after Makarov, but during the mission to take him out, Makarov's men laid an ambush and Price was captured during the attempt to fight their way out. Since ''ModernWarfare3'' ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare3'' shows that Makarov was in control of much of the Russian military, we can presume Makarov had Price locked up in the gulag and tortured regularly for his own amusement.



!! ModernWarfare 3

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!! ModernWarfare VideoGame/ModernWarfare 3
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*** Indeed, the "massive fleets of aircraft" were just phantom dots that were used to distract NORAD until it was too late for them.
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*** Probably the case. When we see him in "SSDD" and "Team Player", there's no reference to Foley being the commander of Hunter 2-1. The commander of 2-1 was probably separated or something during the course of Team Player, explaining why we never see him and why Foley is the immediate commander during that mission. Then, during the Russian invasion, the commander of Hunter 2-1 was killed(which makes perfect sense, considering it was a massive surprise attack) and Foley became acting commander.
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*** I said it up above, but Viktor Reznov from ''World at War'' was apparently originally meant to be an ancestor of Imran Zakhaev. However, that's pretty much the only concrete connection between the two sub-series, and as I also said up above, now that sequels to both of those games are actually out I can't find actual confirmation of that connection anymore. So, I'd say you're right, and they aren't connected at all.
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** If anything saving Alena is ''more'' important than her father. Makarov can't coerce a response from a dead man so he is bound to his plans to keep Vorshevsky alive and the rescuers know that. However he still has has a gun to Alena's head, which is what gives him power over the president. Save her and he would have to come up with some other plan to exact his intentions and that would buy the rescuing forces some time to track him down.
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*** No he wasn't, the only reason he misled Woods and Mason during the events of Suffer With Me was because Menendez (presumably with help from the real double agent(s)) kidnapped Hudson and David and threatened to kill the latter if he didn't cooperate. If Hudson really was Menendez' mole in the CIA, he wouldn't have needed to use David as leverage.
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* Even while he was in the middle of torturing him, Hudson told Clarke the same thing he told Mason at the beginning of the story: "Give us what we want, and we guarantee your safety." If they had managed to escape the Russians, the CIA probably would've given Clarke protection and granted him immunity from prosecution; similar deals have been struck in U.S. history, such as with Unit 731.
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** Hudson is the double agent that Kravchenko is talking about, remember? He has ''every'' reason to hope that someone kills Kravchenko before the dude can finish talking. Heck, it's likely that he's specifically setting you up to do it.
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*** Price, and a few others, refer to him as Kingfish in the game a few times too...StarWars here we come.

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*** Price, and a few others, refer to him as Kingfish in the game a few times too...StarWars Franchise/StarWars here we come.

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stop being a bot


*** One would think Allen would see this massacre as Russia's 9/11. It's a similar scenario. An attack by a foreign group (Technically in ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'''s case) prompts military retaliation towards the attacking country.

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*** One would think Allen would see this massacre as Russia's 9/11. It's a similar scenario. An attack by a foreign group (Technically in ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'''s ''Modern Warfare 2'''s case) prompts military retaliation towards the attacking country.



* "Davis Family Vacation" seems like it belongs in ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'', before the Russians invade. Why would a family of American tourists be skipping around London without a care in the world 6 weeks after an invasion of the US Mainland? We are at DEFCON 2, people!

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* "Davis Family Vacation" seems like it belongs in ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'', ''Modern Warfare 2'', before the Russians invade. Why would a family of American tourists be skipping around London without a care in the world 6 weeks after an invasion of the US Mainland? We are at DEFCON 2, people!



*** Except the Russians were completely justified in attacking. A high ranking US general was launching terrorist attacks against them, and they didn't know he wasn't acting in his capacity as an officer of the US government (the whole "lie" thing Price refers to in the Endgame intro video). Hell, the subtext of ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'' was the United States paying the price for thinking they can commit to unilateral action anywhere in the world, and how destructive this "It's only a tragedy when it happens to my side" ultranationalist mentality Dunn exhibits is. The US government doesn't really have a leg to stand on, and making the Russians pay massive reparations for a war ''one of their own men started'' wouldn't be very wise.

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*** Except the Russians were completely justified in attacking. A high ranking US general was launching terrorist attacks against them, and they didn't know he wasn't acting in his capacity as an officer of the US government (the whole "lie" thing Price refers to in the Endgame intro video). Hell, the subtext of ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'' ''Modern Warfare 2'' was the United States paying the price for thinking they can commit to unilateral action anywhere in the world, and how destructive this "It's only a tragedy when it happens to my side" ultranationalist mentality Dunn exhibits is. The US government doesn't really have a leg to stand on, and making the Russians pay massive reparations for a war ''one of their own men started'' wouldn't be very wise.



** Maybe he just wasn't there? Of course then you have to answer the question of why.[[/folder]]

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** Maybe he just wasn't there? Of course then you have to answer the question of why.[[/folder]]




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*** Although there's the fact that Sandman took the brunt of the actual door-explosion, likely shielding Frost from most of the effects past getting knocked down, and he was fine for the next mission. Maybe Frost hit his arm on the floor in a bad way that Sandman wouldn't have from landing on another person instead?
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Better not stop Mason]]
* So not one person in the room noticed Mason convulsing as he pointed a loaded pistol at Kravchenko, let alone tried to stop him, and were surprised if Mason actually does shoot him? Not to mention, since at least Hudson knew that Reznov brainwashed Mason to kill Kravchenko, why did he even allow him in the room, let alone with a loaded weapon?
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[[folder: Why the DSM?]]
* Instead of wasting time transferring the contents of Makarov's computer to the DSM, why not just open up the casing and remove the hard drive(s). It wouldn't take nearly as long, and you'd only have to worry about the the hard drive(s) being damaged or destroyed by gunfire, as opposed to the hard drive and/or the DSM.
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[[folder: Why the DSM?]]
* Instead of wasting time transferring the contents of Makarov's computer to the DSM, why not just open up the casing and remove the hard drive(s). It wouldn't take nearly as long, and you'd only have to worry about the the hard drive(s) being damaged or destroyed by gunfire, as opposed to the hard drive and/or the DSM.
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*** Rangers are soldiers, not marines.


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*** Except by the time the runner was saying he didn't know the countersign, you could clearly see he was wearing ACU's, which looks nothing like the Russian Army combat uniform.
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Let\'s not use acronyms for the sake of it.


*** One would think Allen would see this massacre as Russia's 9/11. It's a similar scenario. An attack by a foreign group (Technically in MW2's case) prompts military retaliation towards the attacking country.

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*** One would think Allen would see this massacre as Russia's 9/11. It's a similar scenario. An attack by a foreign group (Technically in MW2's ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'''s case) prompts military retaliation towards the attacking country.



* "Davis Family Vacation" seems like it belongs in MW2, before the Russians invade. Why would a family of American tourists be skipping around London without a care in the world 6 weeks after an invasion of the US Mainland? We are at DEFCON 2, people!

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* "Davis Family Vacation" seems like it belongs in MW2, ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'', before the Russians invade. Why would a family of American tourists be skipping around London without a care in the world 6 weeks after an invasion of the US Mainland? We are at DEFCON 2, people!



*** Except the Russians were completely justified in attacking. A high ranking US general was launching terrorist attacks against them, and they didn't know he wasn't acting in his capacity as an officer of the US government (the whole "lie" thing Price refers to in the Endgame intro video). Hell, the subtext of MW2 was the United States paying the price for thinking they can commit to unilateral action anywhere in the world, and how destructive this "It's only a tragedy when it happens to my side" ultranationalist mentality Dunn exhibits is. The US government doesn't really have a leg to stand on, and making the Russians pay massive reparations for a war ''one of their own men started'' wouldn't be very wise.

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*** Except the Russians were completely justified in attacking. A high ranking US general was launching terrorist attacks against them, and they didn't know he wasn't acting in his capacity as an officer of the US government (the whole "lie" thing Price refers to in the Endgame intro video). Hell, the subtext of MW2 ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare2'' was the United States paying the price for thinking they can commit to unilateral action anywhere in the world, and how destructive this "It's only a tragedy when it happens to my side" ultranationalist mentality Dunn exhibits is. The US government doesn't really have a leg to stand on, and making the Russians pay massive reparations for a war ''one of their own men started'' wouldn't be very wise.
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** Who said that Black Ops and Modern Warfare were in the same continuity?
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Most Dangerous Terrorist since Osama Bin Laden]]
* Menendez is identified early on as "The Most Dangerous Terrorist since Osama Bin Laden." Wouldn't Vladimir Makarov have greatly overshadowed Bin Laden by the time Menendez became that powerful? Why not compare Raul to Makarov instead?
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*** Just because the CIA has ordered black operations without approval from the government (why the hell IRL, the US government thought giving them that freedom was a good idea is beyond me...), doesn't mean that the rest of the world is quite aware of the CIA's tendency to do that, or those that do would even believe their claims that that was the case here. The Russians would only need the body of a CIA agent to give them enough pretense to declare war on the US, plus as mentioned, regardless of whether or not it was directly approved by the government, the US did know about the attack and did nothing to warn Russia about it or stop it.

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*** Just because the CIA has ordered black operations without approval from the government (why the hell IRL, the US government thought giving them that freedom freedom, IRL, was a good idea is beyond me...), doesn't mean that the rest of the world is quite aware of the CIA's tendency to do that, or those that do would even believe their claims that that was the case here. The Russians would only need the body of a CIA agent to give them enough pretense to declare war on the US, plus as mentioned, regardless of whether or not it was directly approved by the government, the US did know about the attack and did nothing to warn Russia about it or stop it.
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*** Just because the CIA has ordered black operations without approval from the government (why the hell IRL, the US government thought giving them that freedom was a good idea is beyond me...), doesn't mean that the rest of the world is quite aware of the CIA's tendency to do that, or those that do would even believe their claims that that was the case here. The Russians would only need the body of a CIA agent to give them enough pretense to declare war on the US, plus as mentioned, regardless of whether or not it was directly approved by the government, the US did know about the attack and did nothing to warn Russia about it or stop it.
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** The last time you play as Frost he's been knocked down by a door exploding is his face, not to mention the building coming down on top of him earlier. Maybe he was just unlucky and was badly injured unlike the rest of the squad.

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** If you look closely during the ending where Section and Woods visit Alex's grave, Woods' service uniform shows he has the rank of Master Sergeant, which is a senior enlisted rank in the Marine Corps that usually takes 15+ or more years to attain. So he retired from active duty service with that rank.

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** If you look closely during the ending where Section and Woods visit Alex's grave, Woods' service uniform shows he has the rank of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_sergeant#United_States Master Sergeant, Sergeant]], which is a senior enlisted rank in the Marine Corps that usually takes 15+ or more years to attain. So he retired from active duty service with that rank.

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