Unless anyone would be willing to prove otherwise, I'm removing the anti-hero/villian tropes from the characters that dont fit it. I'm always open for dicussion if anyone disagrees.
Anti-Hero and Villain Protagonist are pretty damn similar, it's just a difference in motivation, or not depending on the theme of the work. It's a tough sell, but I say Revy is technically an Anti-Hero since she works with Rock...who's heroic-ish, if Belkar counts as an Anti-Hero then I'd say Revy and the rest of the company do, (She's an Anti-Hero, but she's also the Token Evil Teammate).
And Balalaika and Boris were anti heroes...at first since they were working with the Lagoon company. It's only until Tokyo you could really call them Villains, and even then they're not actively malicious, and they still have more vile enemies then themselves. I'd say that they can be an Anti-Villain, and they can also be an Anti-Hero, they just have a Face–Heel Revolving Door.
"Whoa" Keanu Reeves
No, rock is a Token Good Teammate,is an anti-hero that does not mean that others are.
Edited by cclospina
yea but give rock a anti-hero he was 1 now hes 3 on a scale of anti-heroes
Worth noting that the numbers on the Anti-Hero scale are deprecated.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Uh ... please try to use proper grammar and spelling.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Need to add an entry for Feng I think. She's important enough now to warrant one. No point waiting until we can get an anime picture for her, they probably won't make any more so we should just use a manga shot.
I'd do it myself, but I'm tired. Just make sure she has a Distaff Counterpart entry for her and Rock.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Don't Forget To Smile
Argue all you want, that's what we have the discussion page for, but please keep the discussion off the main page.
- Mary Sue: Young girl takes over her clan following her father's death and her own arrival in the show. She then proceeds to monopolise the attention of the main characters, take on the most dangerous villains in the show for several episodes, possibly win the love of her Bad Ass Bodyguard, destroys in an argument a hero who has been able to confront gun-toting psychos and maintain his viewpoint despite only being in highschool, gets captured, tortured and nearly raped, and then commits suicide rather than surrender or live without her bodyguard. Your Mileage May Vary as to how well it's pulled off, but Yukio's entire part in the show reads like a bad self-insert fic.
- Except the part where she fails, loses everything and dies...
- ... Which makes Yukio actually a deconstruction of Mary Sue, by showing exactly what would happen to a young girl trying to take up a potentially Sue-ish role in a Crapsack World. Either the OP completely missed the point of her or was speaking in full Sarcasm Mode.
- Original Poster here. I wasn't being sarcastic and I don't think I missed the point: specifically that the show keeps trying to make me sympathise with Yukio, while having her doing incredibley stupid things. Her Nietzsche Wannabe routine that she uses against Rock comes off as incredibley pretentious, at least to me, and the fact that she beat Rock in an argument is pretty dumb when you consider that she really doesn't make a very strong case. The plot lets her win the argument because the plot demands she win the argument, not because she's actually making a better case then Rock is. Classic Sue behaviour. Her suicide was equally pretentious, and a beautiful example of a character who is supposed to be too wonderful for this cruel earth, which is really dumb when you consider that she's been a real bitch to Rock and anyone who's tried to help her. Hell, she gets Rock to BSOD twice, once with her brilliant arguments and once again after her death, even though he's only known her for a week or two. Generally speaking, Yukio acts like a pretentious (I can't say that word often enough) twit with delusions of grandeur to everyone who tries to help her, and the plot expects the audience to sympathise with her for no other reason then her supposed purity, none of which is ever demonstrated. Jerk Sue much? My girlfriend and I were actually chanting "Sue, sue" at the screen when we watched these episodes.
- ... Which makes Yukio actually a deconstruction of Mary Sue, by showing exactly what would happen to a young girl trying to take up a potentially Sue-ish role in a Crapsack World. Either the OP completely missed the point of her or was speaking in full Sarcasm Mode.
- Except the part where she fails, loses everything and dies...
I disagree. When I saw the show, I did sympathize with Yukio in that she's a young girl whose clearly struggling against overwhelming odds, but it's also clear that she's using her intelligence and knowledge for self-deception. Rock points this out to her when Ginji dies. He tells her that she basically lied to herself by telling herself that she wanted to be part of the criminal underworld, when in reality all she wanted to do was be with Ginji. It's an interesting parallel with Rock, who is far more self-aware. Rock, while at first attracted to the life of a criminal, realizes the incredible danger and inherent dispair that saturates the criminal underworld at the end of the arc. In the end, he realizes that being a criminal isn't all it's out to be, but unlike Yukio, Rock never had anything to care about in a legitimate lifestyle, whereas in his current profession he has a crew that respects him, and he has Revy, who has already demonstrated that she cares about him and is willing to make sacrifices for him. Yukio had her whole life ahead of her, a life that she legitimately enjoyed and one she found fulfilling, but she threw it away out of a desire to be with Ginji, and she justified it to herself by saying she was fulfilling her obligations to her family. In the end, I didn't really sympathize with Yukio at all. I just pitied her because her self-deception caused her to lose everything about which she genuinely cared.
Edited by 70.70.157.110
PaperMaster
Pulled:
This referred to both members of the Lovelace family.
The White Prince has been renamed and redefined into Sheltered Aristocrat. There is not enough context to tell if it fits here. Check the definition to see if it applies before re-adding.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
{{Tsundere}} pet.
- Cute Shotaro Boy: 15-year-old Chang from the Omakes
13-year-old Rock: Mr. Chang! You're so young! - Cute Shotaro Boy: Hansel is a subversion as he and Gretel use their cuteness to get the drop on their victims.
One, Cute Shotaro Boy has been renamed to Adorably Precocious Child. Two, this trope is highly misused and this example does not give enough detail to see if it applies; please check the definition at Adorably Precocious Child before re-adding.
Edited by lebrel Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
Where did Fabiloa say this quote under her Celibate Heroine entry?
"There is no need for you to be concerned about my breasts. Even if they grew as big as melons I have no intention of anybody fondling them."
I just finished that long Roberta arc and the only time I recall her mentioning her breasts was at the ending omake where Roberta called her flat.
May Dhunia guide me on my path.
Does anybody else think we should add entries about characters like the E.O captain and the characters from the german U-Boat ?
Your mind is a software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it. Extinction is approaching. Fight it.
May Dhunia guide me on my path.
Does anybody else think we should add entries about characters like the E.O captain and the characters from the german U-Boat ?
Your mind is a software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it. Extinction is approaching. Fight it.
Revy was Neutral Evil at the beginning of the series?
but if Revy has always been chaotic.
Edited by cclospina
Restored Balalaika's Lawful Evil entry because she just doesn't have the "screw everyone except me" mentality of a Neutral Evil mindset.
Of course, if anyone disagrees, I'm willing to listen. =D
... And here we go again. Keep your persona bias against Yukio out of here, please.
- Mary Sue: Of the sympathetic variety. We're supposed to feel really bad for her, what with all her pretentious talk about how she can't live in the light with everyone else. She also monopolises the plot during the episodes she's in, suddenly defeats a main character at his own specialty, arguing, not by making a better case but because the plot wants her to, completely draws the attention of the main character away from what he was supposed to be doing, and ultimately dies because she is Too Good for This Sinful Earth. Yes she ultimately fails, but even then the plot treats her as the Doomed Moral Victor, despite the fact that she was a Yakuza crime boss. Your Mileage May Vary of course, but that's pretty Sue-ish, at least from my perspective.
- She was supposed to have been an Ordinary Highschool Student who was unaware of her family's involvement in the Yakuza. There is no way that she should have had the effect Rock that she did. Especially given who he has to listen to quite regularly. If he can tell Reby to stuff it while she was pointing a gun at him he shouldn't have any let Yukio walk all over him.
Lavode: I deleted some tropes from the character sheets, since they didn't seem to fit the characters in question or were redundant. (For example, Benny being the Smart Guy - he may be smart, but it's usually Dutch and Rock who do the thinking.)
Ok, so why are mostly half the characters on the page labled "anti-heroes"? I can understand seeing that the story is played out through the Lagoon's perspective, but these guys are villians (except Rock and Benny...mabey). Thier protagonists yes but not heroes, that's where the trope Villian Protagonist comes in. They deal, steal, and kill without losing one night of sleep. To be an anti-hero you still have to be...well a hero. I will agree that Rock and especially Roberta more than anybody else in the series deserves that title. And Balalaika and Boris anti-villians? I believe the people are ignoring it's meaning for the sake of fan fare.
Edited by SpikeSpacer Hide / Show Replies