When the Stars Came Crashing Down

Hey, guys, just USAF here, that weird kid who drops into every other thread to annoy you guys.

Music for the mood — and if there was ever one of my works that could use this as a theme, this is it...

So, last night, I was in a really bad mood, and, since we all know that True Art Is Angsty, I had an idea for a sequel to a story I'm working on, and I wanted to see what you guys would think of it. The working title, as noted by the thread, is "When the Stars Came Crashing Down."

Sequel to "Innocence Lost", so, if you want to know more about the backstory you can read that, if you wish. This is mostly just going to cover the idea itself.

So, in summary, Innocence Lost is Alternate History Steampunk World War One, and it ends very... very... poorly. Four empires (Austria-Hungary, Germany, Spain, and Turkey) fall at the end of that war, and one more (the United States) lies at the brink of socio-political collapse—even though it's the largest military on Planet Earth. The British Empire is disintegrating. The French Empire is barely propped up by the Russian Empire, which is slowly sliding away from an Enlightened democracy into theocracy. India is the first communist power in the world. Lastly, Japan, although it is relatively untouched by the conflict, is incensed by a lack of recognition from the West, and it slowly begins to retract, heralding the beginning of a new kind of war...

Flash forward to 1954. The United States of America is no more. Instead, the Incorporated Confederation of America has moved in to take its place. The Congress, as an elected body, has been replaced with a pseudo-board of directors kind of body. The Supreme Court is gone. The States are all gone. The President is the only elected official left in the "government," and candidates are chosen by the corporations, usually based on their harmlessness rather than any actual skill on their part.

The Holy Russian Empire is a sprawling social "democracy," ranging from Germany in the west, to the vast majority of the Middle East in the south, to the far eastern border of what we would know today as "Russia." Though the people vote on a Parliament (British-style) the Pope (who is also the Czar, as of 1932), holds all the cards in the government, and there is no longer a line between Catholic or Orthodox Christianity.

The Japanese Empire controls China, the former French Indochina, and most of the Pacific Rim. A sprawling, semi-fascist nation, the Empire's honorable streak has slowly dwindled in the wake of the Cold War, and the increasingly-paranoid government spends more time worrying about how many nuclear weapons defend the northern border between it and Russia than it does about the welfare of its people.

The French Empire is a puppet of Russia, and its government is merely a figurehead organization, parroting the decisions of Saint Petersburg. Soon, the entire thing will simply be swallowed by the Russians wholesale, as the Czar grows tired of pretending that France is an independent nation.

The British Empire slowly crumbles, as its economy falters under the weight of American pressure. Many former British holdings have been bought-out by the Americans, but even as they try to hold together, the British hemorrhage money, and increasingly bow to the will of the American corporations.

The Commonwealth of India is a Blue-and-Orange Morality type of state, with a strange, caste-system, Hindu-based pseudo-communism behind it. It stands against both Russian and Japanese pressure, leveraging sheer force of arms and numbers against either nation, coupled with the secret support of the ICA in an attempt to drive the other powers against each other.

The Brazillian Empire—founded after the conquest of Portugal and the transfer of their royal family in the aftermath of the Spanish-Portuguese War of the 1890s—is the only thing one could call a real "democracy" in this world. Though it is fairly benign, it operates on a very top-heavy military-industrial-complex-based economy, and it's entire military structure is geared towards opposing American imperialism, leaving its government short-sighted and inept.

So, yeah, rough outline. What do you think? I only have a vague idea of a plot so far, so suggestions would be appreciated...

edited 11th Aug '11 11:35:40 AM by USAF713

You could have used the edit button instead of making a new thread to add two lines, you know.

I hit the back button thinking it would cancel the save, then I realized that I would double post... after I posted it again...

Anyway, while I can't say I like either of the titles, I must admit that the premise has got me intrigued.

Two things that bug me:

• How did such gigantic empires formed? Their size is extraordinary, especially if you consider that all of this happens just after the Great War. I don't really know anything about this stuff, but it sounds a bit... off.
• It seems very strange from Russia, who has been Orthodox from the moment it became Christianic, to now have a Pope and become something in between. What did they say to the masses? "Oh- by the way! We decided the Catholics were right all along, we're having a Pope now! Also, the Catholic church is now a part of us. It's THE Pope we're talking about."

1921 - 1926: The Great War,

120 Million deaths, approximately. 1/3rd from United States biological warfare. The cities of Washington DC and Amiens destroyed via nuclear weaponry. Severe devastation in Europe, tertiary damage in the American West and Midwest, and the Middle East.

Basically, the world gets steampunk technology via Imported Alien Phlebotinum in the 1850s. There were originally a lot more empires, but at the end of the Great War, the Russians and French took the opportunity to absorb most of Europe under the pretense of occupation. Using their ridiculous war machines (flying naval vessels, mega-tanks, power armor, etc.), they managed to keep a hold. It's not really that there are mega-empires, it's just that there are less.

Russia, basically, marched into Italy and told everyone that they own Europe. Nobody had the firepower to argue, so, it stood. Initially, the Russian leadership honestly believed in making the world a better place, but as time went on Nicholas II went further and further into the Knight Templar end of things. You can't really call them Orthodox or Catholic, so much as it's an enforced mix of the two. He doesn't so much care for the denominations—a specifically stated mission of the Russian Government is to re-unite all of Christianity, no matter the cost—so much as it's a matter of uniformity for them. Also, it's hard to argue when the pointy end of Russian nukes is in your back...

About Russia, I was wondering how did Russians justify doing that to the Russian people, not everyone else. How do you say to your people that their religious beliefs (which are a great deal more improtant there than "normal") are going to be compromised in the name of uniting Christianity?

"Hey guys, remember all this stuff you believe in? Well, we can't have the Christians disagree with each other, so we decided that half of it is lies. Have fun!"

edited 9th Aug '11 9:37:57 AM by Dealan

Zealotry. Patriotism. Nationalism. All those lovely concepts. Basically, in this timeline the Czars of the 1800s weren't stupid (there's a significant divergence there), and managed to, basically, kill two birds with one stone: they convinced the people that the nobility wasn't worth it, turning them against the nobility, and convinced the military it would get paid more if the money from the nobility went to the government. Everyone got behind the Czar, the nobility hired mercenaries, and the French stepped in, cementing a Czar-win and a friendship between France and Russia (and healing the wounds from the Napoleonic Wars).

However, the proportion of control in the alliance shifted in the Great War, when Russia became more powerful than France (well, more like it simply proved it to the rest of the world), and the Czar managed to spin the whole thing as a holy war when they invaded the Ottomans and the Middle East. Taking advantage of the fervor was the next logical step, and at this point the people are so blinded by faith they'll take anything the government feeds them, while the government is so blinded by its own self-righteousness it considers anyone who gets in the way to be a mere disposable inconvenience at best...

I still don't buy it. They're religious fantatics. They get motivated by faith. And in the middle of a Holy War, where they fight for their faith, they just accept the goverment telling them to basically forget about the reason they fight? And with the only justification being that they're so fanatics they don't notice that the thing that fanatises them is being betrayed by their leaders? I could get it if Russia was just another superpower, but this Russia is defined by faith. I just can't see it working. The fanatics fight for their faith. Any move to change that faith would be considered treason.

I see someone is hard at work trying to create a steampunk dystopia.

Basically, your justification will have to be military power backing the political regimes in creating these dystopian societies. Then somehow the military's being suddenly more powerful because steampunk works, have to be loyal to the ideologies. Of course, none of this will be stable over 100 years but oh well! Plenty of time for story before it crashes.

Looks...dark. I suppose if that's what you're going for it works pretty well. Not my particular cup of tea.

One thing I'd like to say that you've done that is different from most steampunk is that America is dominating Britain rather than the other way around.

Who ever said the faith was changing? It's the practices that are changing, not necessarily the faith itself. Mostly it's just one denomination absorbing the other. The thinking is mostly "we're all Christian, we should band together to get at the heathens." I haven't really worked out how the absorption should work, though, I just know that, on paper, it's "Orthodox and Catholic aren't separate; it's just unnamed denomination X." Suggestions are welcome.

Ha, steampunk? That's old news. I like my aesthetics to reflect the period. The 1850s-1920s were clockpunk/steampunk. Now we're into Diesel Punk / Atom Punk for the 30s-50s. Think the ISO Standard 50s Sci-Fi B-Movie, but remove the cheese and add horrifying political dystopia and deadly seriousness... plus slightly better science...

As for "being backed by military force," the pre-Great War nations were all fairly stable, and the closest you got to Crapsack World / Dystopia was the United States' Manifest Destiny militant imperialism combined with a Crapsaccharine World in the sense of racial segregation and general Values Dissonance for the period. The Great War is what fucked it all up beyond recognition. It only has to be stable for about 30 years, not 100...

Yeah, it's dark (although, believe it or not, Innocence Lost is probably darker at this point; this is superficially dark, while Innocence Lost reveled in its Fridge Horror), that's kind of a given with deconstruction. I haven't really decided what I'll deconstruct yet, but with this kind of setting it's gotta come up eventually.

As for plot, I have a basic outline now (I went food shopping with my grandma... don't ask): it's somewhere between a World War Two and Cold War-goes-hot plot, where the ICA (US) decides to initiate a first strike on the Holy Russian Empire (the ICA being led by their Anti-Villain President, who was interesting enough to me to make this whole story based around having his character be the main presence) using their new Pinnacle Spire aerial interdiction/anti-missile laser system.

edited 9th Aug '11 11:47:53 AM by USAF713

The whole faith isn't changing, but parts of the faith change. These parts are seen as important enough today that the Orthodox church considers itself the only True christian church. It's not like they think: "Oh, the others just have different traditions." It's more like: "The others believe a number of false things, and just the mere existence of the Pope goes against our truth." Today they don't call the Catholics "heretics" only because it would be rude, but they basically consider them such.

Now imagine if everyone was a fanatic, in a period of a Holy War. Would they accept things like the Pope enter their religion in the name of "uniting all of Christianity"? I don't see it being plausible.

(Though, of course, I'm not a sociologist, and since you seem to have studied history, you're probably able to judge these things better than I do. But my point still stands, at the moment.

Religious fanatics may be obsessed with their faith, but given some... earthly... concerns, and you can always divert them. Nationalism makes for an excellent substitute for Zealotry. I suppose I could say that the Czar basically got crap past the radar by distracting the populace with rebuilding after the war (Europe is practically flattened out to about the Russian border and there's The Plague to contend with...), and then by the time they get around to questioning, he could convince them that it's acceptable.

No one says the title of "Pope" has to mean the same thing. As I understand it, remove the concept of papal infallibility and most denominations don't have a problem with it. There's also the fact that the Czar is insanely popular even before the war, and is taken as a pseudo-religious authority on his own due to programs instituted to put the Czardom closer to the Church. Mind you, at least he gets credit, because he totally drinks his own Kool-Aid here and believes everything he's telling them. Only so much of it is actual trickery; they buy into their own delusions.

British Empire in decline. In Real 1954, Southern Ireland was an independent state and Wales was owned by England. In the Story 1954, Religion is very different, let Wales be independent, but Ireland remain part of the Empire.

Well, The Troubles (the old ones, not the new ones) in this story are put down by the British, instead of going downhill fast like in real life, but they are the herald of the beginning of the end of the British Empire. I might just have the ICA buy Ireland (and, if I really want to be mean, all of the UK).

The ICA is (intentionally) based on the PRC: their economy is unstable but functional so long as they keep growing, and they bribe their people into complacency, which works because the Great War left the populace jaded, cynical, and uncaring.

Bumpity-bump.

Also, I have a basic story outline:

The Incorporated Confederation of America is losing the Cold War. The Holy Russian Empire is simply too big, too powerful, and too adamant in its belief. The ICA leadership, once driven at least in part by their Objectivist ideals, are now struggling just to keep control. Forced to resort to heavy-handed censorship and isolationism against the powerful propaganda of the Russians, the ICA fights a losing battle against the black market, facing the same problem as the Roman Empire: the ideology of the enemy is both irresistible to the masses and impossible to snuff out.

However, the Russian Empire's theocratic tendencies give it a single Fatal Flaw—one that may just be the saving grace for the ICA: it distrusts the science of space exploration. While the ICA has already put men on the moon, the Russian Empire has yet to resolve its moral quandaries with even considering space travel.

Now, the ICA's ace-in-the-hole is operational: the Pinnacle Spire, a titanic starship equipped with powerful orbit-to-surface weaponry. Combined with a surge in militarism and preparation for mobilization, the ICA thinks it can win the first-strike. But these two superpowers are not the sole nations at play, and the ICA is not as in control of its own people as it likes to think... especially not with a new President in power—a President determined to see his country become more than a tool of the corporations or a brainwashed flock of sheep for zealots...

What do you think? This is what I have after two days of work, so, suggestions would be most-appreciated...

edited 10th Aug '11 4:12:46 PM by USAF713

"the same problem as the Roman Empire: the ideology of the enemy is both irresistible to the masses and impossible to snuff out."

That is a perfectly reasonable set up for a War story, but it ain't the Fall of the Roman Empire.

In England, Pagan Barbarians invaded and founded Pagan states, but not in Europe. Constantine made Christianity the state church in 325ish. So then there were disputes between Arian Christians and Catholics Christians whether Jesus was a Prophet or God. The Catholics won in Rome but the Barbarians were converted when Arianism was still the state church in Rome. It wasn't Pagan Barbarians who invaded Christian Rome in 450ish. It was Arian Christian Barbarians invading Catholic Christian Rome. The Barbarians did not impose their ideology upon the masses the Roman Peasants continued to go to Catholic churches and the Barbarian Aristos went to their own Arian churches.

Your set up is perfectly fine. My whinge is that the fall of the Roman Empire happened differently. Unless you mean that in your Alt-History, Rome did fall like this?

edited 10th Aug '11 6:06:25 PM by Trotzky

Oh, I wasn't talking about the Fall of the Roman Empire, I was talking about their failed suppression campaigns against Christianity before they gave up and made it official.

The ICA has to take down the socialist Christian dogma pushed by the Russian Empire, but the problem is that the poor that get left behind by the captains of industry at the head of the ICA are in love with the idea of the "utopia of the majority" proposed by the Russians. While the middle and upper class is cynical enough to be bought off by the corporations, the lower class have no incentive to stay with a system that actively suppresses them.

Edit:

No, my Alternate History only runs from the mid-1600s (for Japan), and 1817 (for the Western world).

edited 10th Aug '11 6:08:37 PM by USAF713

So, I wrote all of that faff for nothing.

Evil ICA government wants Peasants to behave so they put fluoride in the water and the TV. Russian scientists would have made an antidote to fluoride, but the Priests suppress Science.

Sort of? I should probably be clearer on my historical events...

I... guess? What does fluoridating the water do?

Alright, I've got some more basic plot/timeline outline:

• 1924-1925: The Russian Empire "reforms," changing its name to the "Holy Russian Empire." They then declare a New Crusade on the Ottoman Empire and open an overland front against the unfortunate, crumbling Turkish Nation through Afghanistan and Iran. The defeat of the Ottoman Empire in the resulting battles is absolute and crushing.

• 1926: The Great War ends. The world teeters on the brink of collapse. Foreign intervention forces oversee the rebuilding of the US Government. Corporations—always behind the politics of America, even before the war—quietly begin to rebuild in the background, cultivating the sympathy of a people utterly disillusioned with government.

• 1928: The occupation of the Central Powers and the rebuilding of Europe is in full swing. Provisional governments in former Germany and Austria-Hungary are split between Russia and France, while Britain and America deal with much of Spain. The US Military relies on the command of General Pershing, in lieu of a central government; thanks to his leadership, they are able to resist demands made by France and Russia to change government in Spain to match their efforts in Germany and Austria-Hungary.

• 1929-1930: The Holy Russian Empire declares elections held in their portion of Germany to be void, and proceed to annex the region. They then spread outward, establishing "Regional Governmental Zones of the Holy Empire" in various parts of Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Western Germany and upper Italy is annexed by the French Empire. The Czar marches his army into Rome, and declares two of the largest denominations of Christianity on the planet to be joined.

• 1932: Dissatisfaction with the new United States Government reaches new heights. Demands for foreign troops to leave American soil leads to rioting in several major cities. The United States Army has a stand-off with divisions of the Russian Army. Violence is narrowly averted by the Czar, who willingly withdraws his forces from the US mainland, but the Russian Navy is left in international waters off the coast of America.

The Cold War has begun.

• 1940: Recent immigrant to the United States, Ayn Rand, engages in political activism in favor of Wendell Willkie, but, when he loses the Democratic nomination to Robert Taft, she switches her support to him. Rising through the ranks of Taft's political campaign, she becomes a minor public figure in her own right, and when Taft wins the Presidency—beating Progressive candidate Al Smith—she is given a mid-level position in Taft's administration. Her outspoken pro-corporate stance attracts backers in the business sphere, and she is marked as a possible future politician by executive leaders.

• 1942: The United States Army and Navy are dispatched to the "Mexico Four," or the four states that make up what was once Mexico, to put down a revolution sparked by poverty levels and government corruption in the region. Douglas MacArthur is promoted to brevet General to deal with the crisis, and his effective leadership earns him minor fame around the nation.

• 1944: As the strife in Mexico nears its end, the French Empire criticizes the American handling of the conflict. Calls for international intervention and independence for Mexico are made by the Holy Russian Empire, only to be quashed by threat of massive retaliation with American strategic weaponry. The crisis reaches its breaking point in mid-summer, but, with mediation by the Japanese Empire, blows over in the autumn after. A bad taste is left in the mouth of all the superpowers by the event, however, and the danger is most acutely felt in the US, where the arms race hits a new high point.

• 1946: Ayn Rand, made famous by her book, The Fountainhead, finds endorsement from both corporate backers and President Robert Taft (elected again in 1944) for the 1946 Senate race in New York. She successfully runs against her opponent on a pro-business, anti-union platform, though allegations of massive voter fraud by the political bosses in New York abound—as they always do in the state.

• 1947: There is an... incident... at Roswell, New Mexico. Mere weeks later, the US Government announces the beginning of its space program.

• 1948: Mass dissatisfaction with the US Government explodes yet again in this Presidential election year, as riots engulf every major city. The Senate—led by Rand—proposes a bill to limit "government intrusion" on the people... a move backed by the corporate bosses that control every politician. The Supreme Court is dissolved, and the Congress is de-fanged, with plans for it's ultimate dissolution by 1950.

• 1949: The "United States of America" are renamed, as state and local governments are dissolved. Corporations, citing "a distinct lack of order in society" step in to "fill the gap." A Corporate "Council of Administration" is set up, and Congress is dissolved early. Taxation is abolished. Ayn Rand is chosen as head of the Council, effectively making her "Prime Minister" of the new Incorporated Confederation of America. The Constitution is thrown out, under pretense of "eliminating anti-liberty laws inherent" to the system created by it.

• 1950: The first American rocket to orbit the moon is launched in mid-February. By December, men have orbited the Earth and the moon.

• 1951: The Holy Russian Empire cuts down attempts to create a space program to compete with the Americans. Meanwhile, the Japanese Empire begins its own program, but their rocket design is initially problematic due to artificial government restriction. In the ICA, the first manned mission to the moon fails miserably, when the rocket explodes on the pad without even lifting off.

• 1952: The first ICA Presidential election occurs. The entire thing is rigged: there is only one party, the "American Corporate" party, which runs three different candidates—all with the exact same (corporate-supplied) platform. Candidate James Hartfield (working name) wins the election, though his position is largely symbolic and meaningless.

• 1953: A movement to reform labor unions is crushed in the Midwest by Corporate police action. Censorship and anti-import laws are cranked up to as far as the Corporations are willing to go without publicly losing face. Humans land on the moon for the first time in the summer, and more missions are planned.

• 1954: The ICA Air Force launches the Pinnacle Spire, an extension of airship technology specifically designed to operate in space. Publicly, the vehicle is unarmed and designed only for research via its telescopic equipment. In reality, the craft's purpose is two-fold: spying on the other superpowers, and, if necessary, utilizing its orbital weaponry to destroy any attack on the ICA.

In response, the Russian Imperial Government and the Czardom politically attack the ICA, claiming that it's "warmongering" space exploration policy is threatening its relations with the rest of the world. In the meantime, infighting within the Russian Government nears the breaking point, as the various ministries challenge the Czardom's proclamation that space travel is an affront to God.

Meanwhile, in the ICA, the President has formulated a plan. The Russian Empire is more powerful, militarily, but the ICA has the advantage with the Pinnacle Spire, and the President believes that now, more than any other time, is the place to strike. He asks for corporate support in an invasion of mainland Europe through the ICA's territory in Spain, as well as Britain. As the Corporations ponder the President's plan, the Pinnacle Spire edges closer and closer to Saint Petersburg...

So, yeah, a lot of ironing out to do. I just did this right now, more or less, so there are lot of things that need to be answered:

• How to stretch the timeline so it's not so condensed.
• Increase the plausibility of the events in the US/ICA.
• Non-US/ICA events; I know US history best, which is why this focuses on that.
• Weaponry for the Pinnacle Spire.
• How the initial battle could unfold.

edited 12th Aug '11 1:23:25 PM by USAF713