During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Maguss, Pestilence and Midas Goldstein.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Steele
Well I believe I have found a potential from the The Raven (2012). but first...
What is the Work?
The Raven is a 2012 American psychological crime thriller film set in 19th-century Baltimore, Maryland where police detective Emmett Fields is investigating a string of brutal murders based on various stories written by Edgar Ellen Poe. So Emmett employs the help of Poe to help him solve these murders and bring the killer to justice. Now for the Killer... Ivan Reynolds
Who is he ? What has he done?
Ivan Reynolds is a typesetter who works at a local newspaper in Maryland who also moonlights as the killer killing in gruesome fashion based on Poe's stories.
His first known murders was an innocent woman and her 12-year daughter whom based on the story "The Murders in the Rue Morgue" where he broke all the bones of the former before slitting her throat so deep that her head fell off when the body was moved, while strangling the daughter was to death before stuffing her body upside down into a chimney.
His second killing involved a rival of Poe's whom he kidnapped, tied down, and had cut in half by a pendulum based on another of Poe's story "The Pit and the Pendulum".
He later kidnaps Emily Hamilton, Poe's Love Interest at her father's masquerade ball, like the one described in Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death" and proceeds to taunts Poe about it in a note.
His third killing involved humiliating a sailor by forcing him to put on a dress before entombing him alive within the sewers tunnel and judging by the state of the corpse it is also implied to have raped him as well.
He also lures the police into at trap at the Holy Cross Church and manages to kill one of the police officers and nearly kills Emmet Fields.
When Poe figures out that the killer works at the newspaper column he goes their to confront him only for Reynolds to introduce himself by killing the editor of said newspaper, Henry. He then force Poe to drink poison on basis that if he does so he will tell him where Emily is. However Reynolds goes back on his word and leaves both Edgar and Emily to die slowly.
Luckily Poe musters what little strength he has, rescues Emily, and tells someone to tell Fields that Reynolds is the killer before dying to the poison. This allowed Fields to track Reynolds down and shoots him point blank ending the bastard's life and his reign of terror.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
All we know about Reynolds is that he works at a local newspaper and based his works from Poe's many stories. That is it.
He claims to be a "fan" of Poe but says in a mocking tone, which doesn't stop him from trying to kill him love Emily and Later him so yeah that falls flat too. so it's exactly like when Donald Pierce saying he is a fan of Logan and mutant, but that doesn't stop him from nearly causing mutant extinction and trying to kill Logan
So nada on those point.
Heinousness
So this is in the vein of John Curtis and Matt Booker it that with each and every murder he does, he does it in the most gruesome and humiliating way.
He has seven onscreen murders, each dying a slow and painful death including an innocent child and Poe the main character of the film and if he succeeded in his murder attempts that body count would increase to nine.
Reynolds also told Poe to mock him in his dying moments that he killed more people to but the police was unable to find that bodies.
With that and that he is the sole bad guy in the film say he sets the heinous standard in the film.
Final Verdict
I believe he is worthy of a but I'll leave that decision to you guys.
Edited by G-Editor on Oct 11th 2023 at 10:45:59 AM
A yep to Scraggle's duo. Kinda sucks for Booth, though.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Goldstein, Pestilence, Maguss and Reynolds
Any more votes on Carruthers?
to Ivan Reynolds.
Right, it's past midnight where I am, meaning this game's two week deadline has been reached.
EP time!
Here, we have a game, a sequel to an immensely popular, generation defining title. A game that, while beloved, was riddled with flaws. And so the creators knew they needed to fix these problems. And here we have a truly polished masterpiece, destined to be remembered and beloved for years to come.
Ladies and Gentleman.
I present to you all:
Knack II.
…
What? What do you mean you thought I was talking about something else?
What is the work?
Knack 2 is the Surprisingly Improved Sequel to Knack, a game set in a world where society is powered by Relics, which our hero, Knack, is made out of. The second game explores the backstory of the world: The hero Marius led humanity in defence against the Goblins and their Machines. Eventually defeating them with superior strategy, Marius decided that after two robot invasions that he was past the point of “mercy”. Eventually realising he had become a victim of He Who Fights Monsters, he founded the order of Monks, who led humanity with peace and wisdom. As civilisation grew, however, the Monks lost influence, being seen as eccentric or even quaint. This leads us to our villain:
Who is he? What has he done?
Xander is the current leader of the Monks. Bitter and humiliated at their current status, he seeks world domination. Initially an ally who helps against the initial threat of the Goblins reclaiming their ancient Machines, Xander tricks Lucas, Knack’s sidekick, into giving him an Ancient Artefact which in truth is a massive power source. He uses it after the Goblins are routed to take control of the Machines and waking up all the ones left dormant, turning them against the remaining Goblins. He assures Ava, the Monks’ Youth Leader, he would not harm Knack and Lucas, her new friends, but he lies, leaving Machines and his own Relic Constructs to kill them both. Knack and Lucas are stuck on the island for 6 months, Xander having even destroyed their plane. Infiltrating Xander’s territory, Xander sees Knack again and he lets slip his shock, much to Ava’s horror, especially when he orders his men to destroy “that… thing!” In the meantime, he’s been keeping busy conquering the country, rebuilding the Titans and preparing for his assault on the last free city, New Haven, after which he intends to expand to the rest of the world. When Knack destroys his last Titan, Xander manages to knock him out with the Artefact, taking him prisoner and making clones of him. Knack is held captive for 3 months until Lucas rescues him.
Now, you might think “he sounds like a dick, but he hasn’t even crossed the Moral Event Horizon.”
Well…
When Knack breaks out, we learn “The Master Plan”: deciding ruling the world is too much work, Xander scraps just about every Machine he has, intact or not, to build the Armageddon Machine. He intends to destroy all of human civilisation, reducing it to the time when Marius ruled, so that people will have no choice but to obey him. His first target is Knack and Lucas’ home, New Haven City and, for a personal touch, has trapped Lucas’ Uncle Ryder, Ryder’s ex-girlfriend Katrina and Lucas’ mentors, Doctors Vargas and Charlotte, so that they die when he destroys the city. We see the four of them tied up in a room in the city with a window so they have a clear view of the Armageddon Machine lumbering towards them. Dick. Mocking Knack as he makes his way up, Ava joins the fray with defected Monks, Xander only too happy to kill the traitors – even gloating as they’re trying to evacuate citizens that they’re going to die with them - and when Knack finally reaches the bridge, Xander, protected by a force field, forces him to watch as he fires on Lucas in his plane. Believing he killed Lucas, Xander snarks “so much for the know-it-all kid” as Knack is devastated. I should note the delivery of that line is really petty and dickish. Of course, Lucas tricked Xander, and manages to destroy the Armageddon Machine. Xander, stunned, is tackled by Knack as the whole place comes crashing down, presumably wanting to take him alive. However, Xander was still wounded, and with the last of his strength, uses the Artefact to create the Final Boss to kill Knack out of spite. Xander dies and literally no one cares.
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?
He is humiliated that the Monks aren’t respected any more. That’s his FE. Hell, he doesn’t particularly mention it, Ava is the one who tells us this, and even Knack lampshades the Disproportianate Retribution. The Monks follow the way of peace, but Xander breaks this, hard. The only Monk we see him spend much time with is Ava, who he manipulates and lies to. When she betrays him, he is shocked, and she gets away, but he didn’t really have a chance to hurt her. He then says she made her choice, now he’ll make his, ordering the early assault on New Haven. If there was ever any genuine care for her, it’s gone at the end of the game when he’s almost gleeful that she’ll die trying to evacuate citizens, and his manipulations make me suspicious they were ever real. We don’t see much interaction with any other Monks other than a few speaker announcements about cleansing the world, so nothing I consider worth weighing. He talks of being a WIE, but he comes off as a classic Knight Templar. He says people listened to Marius because he was all that stood between them and death – which is why people will listen to Xander once he destroys all their cities and villages -, that modern civilisation has made humanity weak, that only the worthy shall be welcomed into the new world. At the end of the day he’s just a Social Darwinist who wants to put himself on top because of his petty anger at not being ruler of the world like Marius was.
Towards the end of the game, Knack calls him mad, to which he cheerily responds “I might be!” Indeed, he’s a lot more maniacal at the end after these 9 months, but it seems more a case of “drunk with power” then “I can’t tell the difference between right and wrong”. If ever there were any genuine good intentions in him, it is, again, gone by the end of the game, and he’s such a hypocritical liar I’m not sure there was ever any good in him. Oh, and he never expresses regret for his actions, except kind of towards Ava about doing what needs to be done, but elsewhere? Frequently cackles with glee at being able to conquer the world and dies cursing that he should have destroyed Knack first. I should also note there’s a certain hypocrisy in wanting to return humanity to the old ways while abusing hyper advanced Goblin technology.
The only time any characters express sympathy towards him is when Ava explains his FE, but only Ava is sympathetic to him, she was mentored and manipulated by him and had only just betrayed him and she never shows this sort of emotion about him again. When he dies ‘’no one’’ even mentions it. No one is shown mourning him or saying “he used to be such a good man.” People just want to move on and rebuild.
Heinousness?
Worst villain in both games, with the possible exception of the Guardians at the end of the first game which I think tried to destroy the world or something because of relics, but they weren’t even characters, just some defence system that went out of hand. For most of the game, his plans were mostly generic, but his Armageddon Machine, complete with the sheer cruelty of trying to kill Lucas’ friends and family for the “personal touch”, put him above the baseline for Take Over the World villains. While he doesn’t have any successful on screen kills, he explicitly has no problem with anyone dying as a result of his AM and explicitly tries to kill our heroes’ friends and family in a needlessly cruel way out of spite. The only on screen death I know of is when the Goblins attack a village, it’s destroyed, and we see a corpse’s hand for a Gory Discretion Shot. So death is possible and treated with weight in this story, even if we see very little of it (it’s a kid’s game! There’s only so much they can show).
I should note the Goblins do want to destroy humanity, but this is retaliation for being forced into the wilds all those years ago as well as the desire to rebuild their empire.. And we never see Goblins try to betray or subjugate each other, so I think Xander is much worse than, say, Gundahar, the most prominent Goblin. We never hear what Xander intends to do with the Goblins. He orders the Machines to betray them, but after that, nothing. I don't think Xander cares about them, only caring about subjugating his own race, with the Goblins continuing to be exiled to the wilds. Xander has much less of an actual justification, is a traitor to his species, has a worse end goal - I mean, destroying humanity's bad, but enslaving everyone by destroying civilisation under pain of death? I dunno, I think that might be worse, especially since he's not trying to help his species. And just destroying humanity with war is slightly generic. Xander's plan is a bit more creative - and has a higher amount of personal dog kicking to boot. Heh... boot. Kicking. Get it?
I am truly irredeemable.
Conclusion
A hypocritical, power hungry madman obsessed with people respecting him, Xander is the standout Knight of Cerebus for Knack. He’s not the nastiest villain I’ve proposed, but I think he does enough even taking into account this game’s aimed at kids.
edited 19th Sep '17 5:13:13 PM by PolarPhantom
Xander.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Aw you got my hopes up for that other game well I hope someone EP it soon since from what I've heard the Big Bad is a real baddie.
Are there any more votes on Ivan Reynolds its the last post from the previous page.
edited 19th Sep '17 4:33:07 PM by G-Editor
Messenger from another dimension.
Xander and Scraggle's candidates.
Oh, and Pestilence and Ivan Reynolds.
edited 19th Sep '17 4:47:04 PM by PolarPhantom
I'll give this one a spin. There's not much to say, but I suppose it's worth a shot. Thanks to DemonDuckOfDoom for the recommendation!
What is the work?
Dead Men Walk is a 1943 movie that's basically Dracula condensed. It's about a doctor who had killed his devil-worshiping brother, and the brother rising from the grave as a vampire to seek his revenge.
Who is Elwyn Clayton? What has he done?
Elwyn Clayton is the Big Bad of the story. A devil-worshiping sorcerer in life, he'd killed a woman's young grandson. We don't get to see this, but we do see the grandmother's horrified reaction when a funeral is being held for Elwyn in a church.
He returns to life as a vampire, and after feeding on his first victim, what does he do? Vampiric colonization? Seek world domination? Use the townspeople as a food source? Nope, he seeks revenge on his twin brother, our obligatory Van Helsing expy, Dr. Lloyd Clayton to avenge his own murder. Which he does by slowly draining his niece, Gayle, of blood, with the intention of turning her into a vampire.
After that, the majority of his appearances consist of him taunting the good doctor. When Gayle is given a cross to wear around her neck as protection from the vampire, he orders his servant, Zolarr (played by none other than Dwight Frye), to remove it. Zolarr fails, and Elwyn threatens him, but never follows through on this threat. The local "crazy" old woman (who I believe was also the one whose grandson was murdered) tries to expose Elwyn's coffin to show Lloyd proof (unaware that he already knows the truth) of the threat he faces, Zolarr kills her when he sees her outside the crypt. His master is pleased and promises to reward him.
Elwyn kills another victim, who one of the townspeople sees and thinks that Lloyd did it, due to Elwyn standing nearby the body. In his final scene, Lloyd returns to Elwyn's house, where he and Zolarr had relocated due to the danger he faced. Elwyn taunts him one last time, promising to turn Gayle and make her his eternal slave, and as the two fight, Lloyd accidentally knocks a candle over, which sets a curtain on fire, and the both of them — along with Zolarr — go up in flames.
Mitigating factors
Agency? It's stated at the beginning that he became obsessed with black magick after returning from India, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's insane. And as a vampire, he has a clear idea of what he's doing.
Even Evil Has Loved Ones? He despises his brother, and apparently had his entire life. But he's awfully lenient with Zolarr. In addition to sparing him despite his failure, he promised to reward him. Then again, given how he threatened to make Gayle a "slave", chances are, that wouldn't be too much of a reward. Plus not to mention he didn't help him up when a statue fell on his chest. Then again, in that scene, he was in a grapple with his brother, so ...
Generic Doomsday Villain? Petty as hell, but not generic. He has a clear motive for what he does, and a clear personality, to boot.
Heinous standard? Sets it. He's killed the most people in the movie, few in number as they are. No contest.
Offscreen Villainy? This is the biggest issue I have with him. We don't see him kill Kate's (?) grandson. In fact, we don't even see him kill anybody. Although the latter part's not much of a problem, seeing how he is shown looming over a sleeping woman.
Played for Laughs? No.
Regrets or remorse? Ditto.
Verdict
I could really go either way. He may not be a GDV, but he still feels generic for a villain of that sort.
edited 19th Sep '17 4:59:53 PM by Stellarvore
I... don't think I can support Elwyn, I'm sorry to say.
It's just not enough, I think. Seeing just one attempted murder... I know we have an "establishing a pattern" rule, but there's a point where it just feels inadequate, you know?
edited 19th Sep '17 5:01:06 PM by PolarPhantom
No hard feelings. I honestly feel the same, but I figured he'd be at least worth the writeup.
to Reynolds and Xander. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Elwyn.
A total has-been.
Looking back at what I missed...I don't think I'm offending anyone when I say that Sum Dum Nerd ought to be taken off this thread until he's extensively researched who has and hasn't qualified, and how we judge candidates and heinous standards on this thread.
Sum Dum Nerd has given us some good candidates, but they did pull that nonsense when they really should've known better. I think a formal warning will suffice for now. Any other opinions?
Yes to Xander and Reynolds, but...unfortunately, I likewise believe Elwyn doesn't pass the baseline.
Now, time for a new candidate...
You may notice Scraggle and I have been teaming up on some writers here.
What's the Work?
Wolf Hunt is a novel by Jeff Strand. George and Lou are a pair of tough guys working for the mob. Far from being totally bad guys, they're pretty nice, easygoing fellows who just have to occasionally break a few thumbs. Then...they get a really weird job: A powerful mob boss is requesting their boss ship him some merchandise. That merchandise is a skinny guy in a cage. They are warned he's a werewolf. they don't buy it...but then things go...poorly as their guest manages to escape. His name is Ivan and he's not just a werewolf: he's a coldblooded psychopath with a sadist's streak a mile wide, and if George and Lou don't stop him, he plans on massacring everything and everyone within the near vicinity.
Who is Ivan and What's He Done?
Ivan is a werewolf kidnapped by Mr. Dewey's goons...now, Dewey is dying of brain cancer and realized lycanthropy is the way out. But this isn't important right now. Things begin getting weird when a young woman is attacked by a pack of wild dogs. George and Lou save her...but Ivan manages to grab one, get the keys and escape. George and Lou see him change and realize that uh oh, the guy IS a werewolf. George pursues Ivan who breaks into a suburban house where a single mom named Donna has taken the day off work. Holding her at knifepoint and interrogating her so George knows about her kids, Ivan forces George to put the gun down with a promise he won't hurt Donna...then cheerfully remarks he's a liar and cuts her throat open with the comment "I've got a couple of orphans to make here."
George barely survives and Ivan escapes, leaving George, Lou and the girl they saved from the dogs (who Ivan directed) named Michele. Ivan makes it to a bar and proceeds to massacre most of the people there. George and Lou barely survive the fight there and Ivan flees into the woods. Ivan proceeds to realize he needs a change of clothes and sends a dog into the street to stop a car. Ivan takes the man there (named Dale) hostage and proceeds to make Dale drive him towards town while playfully mocking Dale about being unmarried, before making Dale tell him about his crush on a coworker. Ivan offers to drive to her place and let Dale rape her while "I might even let you keep her." Dale works up the courage to tell Ivan to fuck himself and Ivan...immediately loses interest, saying the smart thing would have been to accept his offer and look for a chance to get the better of him later. He forces Dale out of the car, and proceeds to hunt him down in the woods, ripping him apart before realizing he just destroyed his change of clothes (and thinks he was genuine about making Dale rape the girl he liked. It sounded fun.)
Ivan contacts George and Lou and tells them to give him all the money they picked up for their boss so he can leave town or he's going to go on a killing spree. "And decide quick, because once I start, I'm not going to stop in the middle to see if you've had a change of heart. Like, I'm not gonna stop once I've hit 20 newborns when I could get 30. If I only get to kill 20, what's the point, right?" Ivan, of course, is entirely untrustworthy and continues to kill people on the way, racking up a large bodycount, including cop. In several points, an annoyed Ivan kills people for increasingly petty reasons and gets annoyed whenever he has to use a gun for convenience sake. "Have you ever heard of a werewolf having to use a gun? fucking pathetic, am I right?"
He then gets lucky, managing to steal George and Lou's truck, and money, and takes Michele hostage, keeping her in the same cage he was stuck in. I've reprinted the dialogue:
Ivan: I want to. That's a good reason. I mean, if you think about it, there's no reason to eat a great big chocolate chip cookie dunked in cold milk, but it's something you'd wanna be doing right now, isn't it. You're my cookie. That's what I'll call you now on. How's it going, Cookie?
Michele: Fuck you
Ivan: Now you're resorting to expletives. Not cool, Cookie. Guess that means you're done trying to have an intelligent conversation, which means it's time to die. Oh well!
Michele: You don't have to do this
Ivan: That's already been established. Offer me better than a lame observation I have a choice in the matter.
Ivan then offers her a way to live and if she doesn't take it, he promise she will kill her in the most horrible fashion imaginable without a trace of humor...she accepts, so he bites her, and when he captures George, he throws him in the cage with a transforming Michele, mocking him all the while. Unknown to Ivan, however, he previously had a tracker stuck in him before the transport, which Lou uses to hunt them down, using dynamite to blow the truck off the road. An injured Michele chooses to use dynamite to kill herself rather than become a monster like Ivan (Who notes that only werewolves who love what they do can keep their minds as thoroughly as he does). Ivan kills several members of George and Lou's team, but is badly, badly injured.
Offering a truce, Ivan requests the money and promises to leave the country, but has them meet him at a bowling alley with the clear implication that he's going to take the money, then kill George and Lou and everyone there, men, women and kids included. George meets with the injured Ivan who says he's exhausted and wants a rest...George manages to get the drop on Ivan in human form, trying to jam a grenade down his throat, but Ivan fights back and transforms. At the end, George manages to shove a silver cross down Ivan's mouth, the silver burning him from the inside out, also burning out his heart, killing the bastard slowly and agonizingly.
So, mitigating qualities?
Ivan defines Faux Affably Evil, even moreso than Pestilence. He is absolutely hilarious at times, with pitch black comedy (when George begs Michele to control herself when changing, Ivan chimes in with "Yes! Fight! With the power of love! Accept Buddha as your savior! Go team!"), but...he's also a completely low-functioning, unstable and violent psychopath who loves hurting and killing others with a heaping dose of mental torture in there, too. There is one scene where Ivan randomly spares a man and woman in the bar, but this is portrayed as an amused whim. He even says that he gets a wee bit tired when he massacres a lot of people, likening it to an Olympic swimmer who just finished a marathon. "last thing you wanna do is get back in the pool and go again right away, ya know?"
Now, werewolves are noted to be rare, but the book's sequel demonstrates they're entirely able to be good or bad people and most of them are just interested in low profile. Ivan is fully in control of his transformation in ways other werewolves aren't, because he's such a monster and he's a sadistic bastard whether he's man or wolf.
oh, he also says he doesn't like eating people. But he himself notes this isn't a moral objection at all. Just a matter of taste.
Conclusion?
Ivan is, hands down, one of the most sadistic, vile, monstrous werewolves I have ever read about and is an easy keeper in every way imaginable, even if he is also darkly hilarious.
And now, the last EP from What Madness is This?.
Who is he?
Charles Oswald, also known as John F Kennedy, grew up in an Inferior ghetto, as his family were all Irish Catholics. This rigid segregation system and the inequality Kennedy faces because of it makes him view life as extremely unfair, and he fantasizes about leaving the ghetto and one day having a life as one of the "Betters". He joins a local crime organization, and rises through the ranks distributing outlawed alcohol throughout the town. Because of this, he gets arrested a few times, but never prosecuted due to lack of evidence. One day, the police station is caught up in a fire and Kennedy's arrest record is destroyed. Seizing the opportunity, Kennedy convinces his brother Joe that this is the perfect time to leave the ghetto and start a new life.
What has he done?
In order to escape the ghetto, Kennedy hatches a plan to fake the death of himself and Joe, killing the rest of the Kennedy family, putting a couple of dead mobsters among their corpses, and lighting the building on fire. Once this is done, the Kennedy brothers get a forger to give them false identities, then kill the forger to ensure their secret is never revealed. Kennedy takes the name of Charles Oswald, While his brother takes the name of Robert Oswald.
Charles becomes a major figure in the armed forces, and quickly becomes one of Steele's most trusted advisors, and helps him in planning and executing the purges of 1954. Once the World War starts, Oswald takes command of the army group pushing into Maryland and Virginia. He shows a penchant for brutality, organizing large massacres of any Inferiors in the territory he conquers. He uses chemical warfare for the first time in history, gassing over ten thousand at Ocean City, including children, leaving most alive but with horrific injuries. Even in non-Inferior towns and cities Oswald frequently kills thousands of civilians simply to instill terror into the populace. These atrocities earn him the title "The Beast of America".
Once Joe Steele dies, Oswald takes control of the country. One of his first actions is to organize several false-flag terrorist attacks, which kill over a thousand people, in order to give himself more power. He orders more massacres of southerners during the war, expands the murder of Inferiors to encompass the entire south, and has the Brazilian capital of Rio nuked just to prove he's as tough as Steele, killing over three million. When a cure for the Scottish Flu is developed, Oswald ensures that none of the remaining Inferiors can have it as part of a plan to wipe them out for good. After Kaiser Helmut Wilhelm expresses horror and disgust at Oswald's actions, Oswald tries to have him and the Reichstag all assassinated (this fails, but several dozen people die in the attempt). As England and Scotland have fallen into anarchy to the devastation wrought on them during the World War, Oswald orders the army to occupy them, using excessive force and large massacres to keep the population in line. Oswald also expands the RU's influence into other parts of the globe by supporting regimes just as insane as his, in particular the genocidal white supremacist regimes of both Indonesia and South Africa. With racial tensions boiling in the conquered southern nations, Oswald orders the genocide of black people in North America, and millions are killed in the next two years.
Things do turn sour for Oswald, though. The RU goes through an economic depression that is un-paralleled in history. Due to over-extending the country's resources, the RU starts to experience multiple rebellions and terrorist attacks across the nation. Oswald tries the normal method of killing thousands in order to keep the remaining populace subjected, but when that doesn't work, he develops a new plan. Oswald orders the rebelling city of Birmingham to be nuked, killing over a million people, even including thousands of loyalists. As he draws up plans to nuke two further rebelling cities, the armed forces starts to launch a revolution to topple him. Out of spite, Oswald orders the capitol, Philadelphia, to be nuked as well. This prompts his mistress to shoot him to death, and nuclear disaster is averted.
Freudian Excuse or mitigating factors?
This is the big question. As noted, Oswald grew up in the ghetto and has a desire to live like one of the accepted people of the RU. I don't think this justifies his brutal and callous behavior, especially when taking into account his brother Joe/Robert didn't end up the same way, and instead got a quiet job as an ambassador.
So, does he have any emotional connections? He never really interacts with his brother after leaving the ghetto, plus he admits he no longer trusts anyone anymore before he orders Philadelphia be nuked. He has a wife and son, but hates his wife and evidently doesn't care enough about his son to spare him from dying in Philadelphia. His mistress is in the same position as his son in this regard.
Heinous Standard?
Genocide, mass murder, nuclear warfare, and familicide? I think he passes here.
Final Verdict?
An from me, but it's up to you guys whether he counts or not.
And with that, all the What Madness is This? villains I thought were worthy of an EP got one.
I'll give ayes to Oswald and the first two, but not the others.
As in an abstention, or a downvote?
edited 19th Sep '17 5:39:27 PM by ThePest179
Those are downvotes.
There's WAY too many issues with the heinous standard here
Fair enough.
to Xander, Ivan and Oswald (to be honest the story sounds kind of implausible, but hey its far from the worst For Want Of A Nail story out their).
Yes to Ivan. Honestly, from the AH stories? I think the only concrete yea I'd give is to Viktor... maybe a slighter yea to Oswald as well. Downvoting the others because I don't think they stand out.
edited 19th Sep '17 6:11:16 PM by Scraggle
Most of the stories on AH.com are made to be entertaining rather than plausible.
I'll ask you the same thing I asked Lighty; does that mean all the others are getting a downvote, or are you just abstaining? EDIT - NVM, got my answer.
edited 19th Sep '17 6:14:27 PM by ThePest179
Different Steele.